Post by: Mad Max on March 07, 2022, 10:31:23 AM
I did this one on my own
Turkish Glass Horn bow 43"NTN 6" levers
(https://i.imgur.com/Vk4fnaF.jpg)
I snip a picture off the internet and cut out the profile
(https://i.imgur.com/gSPIykh.jpg)
I draw two lines to keep the scale when zoomed in
(https://i.imgur.com/J4oQpcr.jpg)
I bend a piece of paper to measure from nock to center of riser 21-1/2" to make a ruler
(https://i.imgur.com/1P9g47Y.jpg)
I print a ruler and keep drawing until I get what I want
(https://i.imgur.com/oGCZ8Fb.jpg)
I've been CAD drawing for 32 years, mostly for the Tool and Die work I did. I love trying to figure out how things work
I hope this turns out
Post by: Mad Max on March 07, 2022, 10:40:33 AM
My bow room is Dehumidified to 40%, I may go lower until they dry
I will measure them in Grams and maybe Grains before and after dyeing.
I can make the form with 1 piece of plywood 24" x 48"
Post by: Flem on March 07, 2022, 12:01:29 PM
Looking forward to those seeing those Turquoise lams :thumbsup:
You have an accurate grain scale? I can only get down to 1/10gram
Post by: Mad Max on March 07, 2022, 12:08:50 PM
Reload scales
Post by: Flem on March 07, 2022, 12:17:30 PM
Post by: KenH on March 07, 2022, 03:25:52 PM
Post by: Pat B on March 07, 2022, 11:02:27 PM
Post by: Buemaker on March 08, 2022, 03:07:14 AM
Post by: Mad Max on March 08, 2022, 08:46:21 AM
Cool ideas, Mark. James can have that affect on people. :thumbsup:
:biglaugh:
Post by: kennym on March 08, 2022, 08:52:42 AM
Post by: Mad Max on March 08, 2022, 07:41:56 PM
Very impressive planning Mark!!!!
Just my warped mind at work
Post by: Mad Max on March 09, 2022, 05:50:32 PM
24 hours they were dry
I glued them to my lams
(https://i.imgur.com/TMqHR7f.jpg)
Post by: Arlo on March 10, 2022, 01:04:28 PM
Post by: Mad Max on March 10, 2022, 05:41:46 PM
the dye did not penetrate the veneers like when I did it years ago
My stack is .160
2-.030 glass and 2- .050 lams
I wanted a better core thickness.
next time I will use dye in my epoxy mix
Post by: Mad Max on March 11, 2022, 05:09:14 PM
3 looked like a 8
I got 1" on each side of the form extra, so 45" NTN now :dunno:
Movin on
The Form is done and I skive jointed the lams together
I made some sanding patterns for the 6" long levers today.
I sanded to the line as close as possible and buttered up that side with EA 40 and clamped it together, Saran wrap to keep it from sticking to the pattern
(https://i.imgur.com/cfH3rWv.jpg)
Post by: Mad Max on March 13, 2022, 11:01:02 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZQOhmT5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mCGWGhz.jpg)
I got some kind of strep throat, hope it's not Covid
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 13, 2022, 11:06:46 AM
I had a severe sore throat on one side for 4 days from it and cold chills like I never had in my life.....
Post by: Mad Max on March 13, 2022, 11:29:00 AM
Post by: Flem on March 13, 2022, 12:43:14 PM
It looks like a dark Turquoise in the pic, how did it look wet?
Post by: Mad Max on March 13, 2022, 12:58:35 PM
I ordered some So Slow dye for EA 40 for the next time :thumbsup:
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on March 13, 2022, 07:32:38 PM
Post by: Mad Max on March 13, 2022, 07:52:43 PM
Can you add trans tint dyes to EA40?:dunno:
The dyes I ordered were recommended by Smooth On
Post by: Kirkll on March 13, 2022, 09:44:21 PM
Can you add trans tint dyes to EA40?
Absolutely.... just be careful not to over do it. too much pigment can reduce the strength of the epoxy..... And.... its messy! You really don't realize how much epoxy gets on other things until you mix up black pigment EA 40. :scared:
Post by: KenH on March 14, 2022, 07:06:27 AM
Post by: Mad Max on March 14, 2022, 09:25:33 AM
Post by: Kirkll on March 14, 2022, 04:11:01 PM
Post by: Mad Max on March 14, 2022, 05:08:17 PM
Carbonized boo floor, I may use Stabil kore too
(https://i.imgur.com/N0ImLVH.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/bUsDOy0.jpg?1)
Post by: Mad Max on March 19, 2022, 05:50:41 PM
First thing I did today was shoot the riser across the room trying to sand the fades, only 5/8" thick and 10" long so I made it again. :smileystooges:
All glued up and in the hot box
I'm liking these topless forms
(https://i.imgur.com/qT6DX7c.jpg)
Post by: Flem on March 19, 2022, 06:17:02 PM
Looks like your heat box could double as a tanning bed, and I'm just glad the topless thing is not human :cheesy:
Post by: Mad Max on March 19, 2022, 06:22:28 PM
Post by: Mad Max on March 21, 2022, 07:36:34 PM
No stabil kore on this one
.160 stack, 1-1/8" wide limbs, 45"NTN 26#@28" 9-1/4"of reflex
I figured it would be 40# with it being so short. :dunno:
Here you go shredd --I used this to figure out how long my string needs to be
(https://i.imgur.com/SaxO4mr.jpg)
Siyahs are 6" long, 3/8" wide between the loops
(https://i.imgur.com/uv7QGwb.jpg)
Buffalo Horn tip side overlays
Still need to glue on a leather bridge under the Y on the loops
(https://i.imgur.com/XsWiSp4.jpg)
About 6-1/4" braced
(https://i.imgur.com/H0ddfNK.jpg)
Full draw at 28" top 29" bottom
(https://i.imgur.com/ij26qqm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kgKN2Wx.jpg)
Post by: Shredd on March 21, 2022, 09:55:11 PM
Post by: Mad Max on March 21, 2022, 10:10:39 PM
Post by: KenH on March 21, 2022, 10:12:22 PM
Post by: onetone on March 21, 2022, 11:59:28 PM
Post by: Mad Max on March 22, 2022, 12:24:02 AM
Post by: Pat B on March 22, 2022, 09:17:11 AM
Post by: Mad Max on March 22, 2022, 09:28:24 AM
Post by: Flem on March 22, 2022, 02:17:59 PM
Post by: onetone on March 22, 2022, 05:08:46 PM
Post by: Mad Max on March 22, 2022, 05:09:35 PM
Wow!!! 7oz is amazingly lite. You could carry that thing for days on end and never wear out.
Even Roy could carry it , a beer is 12oz. :tongue:
Post by: Mad Max on March 22, 2022, 05:10:09 PM
Max is the NTN bow measurement along the back surface of the bow?
yes
Post by: onetone on April 02, 2022, 11:14:29 AM
Post by: Mad Max on April 02, 2022, 03:36:29 PM
I want to make 1 more at about 40/45# and see :dunno:
Post by: onetone on April 02, 2022, 06:00:16 PM
Post by: Mad Max on April 02, 2022, 06:05:33 PM
No stabilkore in this one?
no
Post by: Mad Max on April 19, 2022, 05:45:54 PM
I braced it to 7" and it was much better. :thumbsup:
The 48" one on this video has a brace height of 7-1/4" to 8"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crmMRDbpfao
Post by: onetone on April 19, 2022, 08:52:14 PM
Post by: Pat B on April 19, 2022, 10:42:08 PM
Post by: Mad Max on April 19, 2022, 11:41:27 PM
Mark, you look so much younger in the video. :laughing:
:saywhat: :goldtooth:
Post by: onetone on April 24, 2022, 07:04:12 PM
Ended up with a little stinger 48” long 36# DW @ 28”. Learned some things and had fun with the build. Stack was 0.03 glass belly and back, 0.06 boo parallels w/ stabilkore between. Laminated the siyahs w/ maple and 0.03 G10 perpendicular to the arc of the limb. Like the bow a lot, but still working on my thumb release. Pics below: glue up, off of the form w/ boogers ground off, braced, at 28” draw, no finish but mostly done and shoots just fine. Thanks for the tutorial Max!
Post by: Mad Max on April 24, 2022, 08:41:18 PM
Way to go :bigsmyl:
Let us see the Levers
Post by: onetone on April 24, 2022, 09:19:04 PM
Post by: Mad Max on April 24, 2022, 09:42:47 PM
Post by: onetone on June 16, 2022, 01:21:07 PM
Post by: Buggs on June 16, 2022, 02:16:15 PM
I'm really impressed with the use of the shelf bracket channel on your tillering board. That is a great idea, I will be co-opting soon. Thanks!
Post by: Kirkll on June 17, 2022, 09:58:57 PM
Post by: onetone on August 02, 2022, 07:36:42 PM
Post by: Mad Max on August 02, 2022, 07:43:36 PM
I have a few I need to see what kind of speeds I will get. someday :)
Post by: garyschuler on August 02, 2022, 08:45:09 PM
Well done.!! :goldtooth
Post by: Kirkll on August 03, 2022, 12:15:07 AM
Post by: Mad Max on August 03, 2022, 08:51:33 AM
Amazed at the amount of unstrung reflex and braced preload on these bows and was surprised at the crazy floppiness in the limbs when the bowstring is a bit too long. But as you said raising the BH reduces it. From the videos I’ve watched re these shorty horse bows, that vertical instability seems to be part of their MO to one degree or another. My question is, how durable are these bows? Do you have any thoughts on that or did James Parker talk about that at all? I got the sense from your post that he has made a passel of laminate Asiatic bows. Here are some pics of my recent build sans any finish:
I missed this ?
We did not talk about durability---you want your brace height as low as possible without hitting your wrist -----he has made a good many Horn bow glass replicas and horn bows too-----when I took mine to the Classic he looked at it and said you siyahs need to come up into the limb more or it will be unstable.(pointing more upwards at brace than flatter) He has over 8,000 bows in his log books and wants to make it to 10,000
(https://i.imgur.com/nM5MJJ0.jpg)
Post by: Kirkll on August 03, 2022, 09:25:51 AM
These horse bows are very cool….I’d really like to try one of these some day. Right after I finish the Osage self bow I’ve been tinkering with for ten years…. That’s bad…. Kirk
Post by: Mad Max on August 03, 2022, 09:32:40 AM
Wow! 8000 bows in his log book? THAT is a lot of bows. Obviously not a one man band.
These horse bows are very cool….I’d really like to try one of these some day. Right after I finish the Osage self bow I’ve been tinkering with for ten years…. That’s bad…. Kirk
He works by himself and has been doing it a long time
Post by: Kirkll on August 03, 2022, 09:41:50 AM
Post by: Mad Max on August 03, 2022, 10:19:31 AM
He used to make a lot of boo backed Ipe or Osage bow blank’s, you finish
Post by: Longcruise on August 03, 2022, 11:31:33 AM
Wow! 8000 bows in his log book? THAT is a lot of bows. Obviously not a one man band.
These horse bows are very cool….I’d really like to try one of these some day. Right after I finish the Osage self bow I’ve been tinkering with for ten years…. That’s bad…. Kirk
Well, at least you can be sure it's dry. :biglaugh:
Post by: onetone on August 03, 2022, 11:43:15 PM
Max - Appreciate the info about siyahs. Seems like there is a trade off with them, lever action vs dead weight. The stablekore provides enough torsional stability in this bow, but there is still a bit of that longitudinal wobbly limb action. Nothing that bothers me at all, it’s just weird, but I will keep in mind what you mentioned about moving the levers up the limbs for another build. The bow shoots great … including the string, it is 11.45 ounces of badass! What a hoot!
Post by: onetone on August 30, 2022, 11:21:04 PM
Right where the delam happened there is an in-curve on the back of the riser and I think that might be the, or part of the cause. That area of the riser is under major tension, particularly at full draw, which is when it went POP and pulled all the lams up out of that hollow spot. No materials failure cept the end of the fade. All the lams stayed intact and glued together.
I'm going to build another bow like this but I want to think it through first. I'd appreciate your ideas on this. What say y'all?
Post by: Shredd on August 31, 2022, 07:35:07 AM
Post by: Mad Max on August 31, 2022, 07:50:11 AM
On the next one flatten the back to match that gap and remove wood from the belly to get the fade the way you want it.
Lots of stress on the glass there.
Post by: Mad Max on August 31, 2022, 08:13:40 AM
The broke fade came after the glass popped up.
(https://i.imgur.com/Vk4fnaF.jpg)
Post by: Longcruise on August 31, 2022, 08:54:10 AM
Fades are extremely important on these bows, make sure the fades are 1/16" thick at 1" and 1/8" at 2".
The broke fade came after the glass popped
X2!
When I zoom in on the fade it looks like it cracked in several places.
Post by: Longcruise on August 31, 2022, 09:06:31 AM
When I looked back at previous pictures and blew them up the taper rate in the fades looks very abrupt.
Post by: Mad Max on August 31, 2022, 10:01:07 AM
Post by: Longcruise on August 31, 2022, 06:05:03 PM
I assume you are talking about his fades, if so delete the photo on the quote you did on my photo. :thumbsup:
Well yeah, it's obvious that yours isn't broken. 😀
Didn't know a photo could be deleted from a quote. It's out now. Wouldn't Want anyone to think you are designing broken bows.
Post by: Mad Max on August 31, 2022, 06:43:27 PM
Post by: onetone on September 01, 2022, 07:15:48 PM
Post by: Mad Max on September 01, 2022, 07:27:49 PM
Post by: onetone on September 29, 2022, 12:53:49 AM
Built another bow but with an increased stack thickness cause I wanted more DW, jumping the parallels from 0.06 to 0.07 and the result is something I’ve shelved for the time being. Had it clamped on the tiller board at about half draw and walked out of the shop to get a camera when I heard a crash inside. Found the bar clamp a couple of feet from the wall, bow scale under the tiller board and bow at the other end of the shop. Got a string on it again and the limbs seemed then unbalanced, maybe as a result of throwing the string and the crashing flight across the shop, so I decided to shelve it for a spell and build a more mild mannered bow. With such a short bow the increase in lam thickness was too much I think. That’s where it is at now.
Will glue up another on Friday. Pics show the redesigned riser blank below the one that delaminated and the flying bow riser below the previous design. To be continued …
Post by: Mad Max on September 29, 2022, 08:18:08 AM
so I decided to shelve it for a spell and build a more mild mannered bow.
? :dunno:
Post by: onetone on September 29, 2022, 09:58:25 AM
Post by: Kirkll on September 29, 2022, 10:05:29 AM
Your latest riser shape with longer fades looks much better to me. But…. I’ve never tried building anything like this before. So take with a grain of salt…. Kirk
Post by: onetone on September 30, 2022, 10:04:05 PM
Hey that was a snappy form design with the hinges! Was that a one-off form?
Post by: Kirkll on October 01, 2022, 11:52:43 AM
Post by: Mad Max on October 01, 2022, 05:25:47 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/OF6A3Td.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Aqbdsn9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SHAmtbI.jpg)
Post by: onetone on October 01, 2022, 09:03:04 PM
Post by: Mad Max on October 01, 2022, 09:35:58 PM
Post by: Kirkll on October 02, 2022, 10:31:12 AM
I’m amazed how you can get that tight of bend right off the fades without them letting go. :notworthy: :notworthy: Kirk
Post by: Mad Max on October 02, 2022, 11:14:28 AM
I’m curious how You determine the string length on one of these Max.
I’m amazed how you can get that tight of bend right off the fades without them letting go. :notworthy: :notworthy: Kirk
I used the sheepeater 50" bow string to brace it and then made a string for 6" brace , then work your way up on the brace. (brace as low as possible without slapping your wrist) Also .175 stack = 32#@28" so a .200 stack will make a 48# bow.
Fiberglass will take a lot of abuse
I'm pretty sure the bow met it's maximum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz-at6YIuwM
Post by: mmattockx on October 02, 2022, 12:12:50 PM
I used to think such radical reflex was possible only with sinew/wood/horn composite bows
I find that surprising since fibreglass can withstand far more strain than either sinew or horn. It should be possible to build a much more radical FG lam bow than with traditional materials.
MM, just a question on that bow. Have you tried starting the bend an inch or two farther out off the handle area and/or increasing the amount of limb that is bending? Another question, how do you manage to get a string on that out in the field? Or do you string it at home and leave it strung the whole time out hunting?
Mark
Post by: Mad Max on October 02, 2022, 03:22:43 PM
Read all of this and the Draw force curve ( A DFC is not very accurate pulling to 1" at a time on HORN BOWS) the DFC would be much better (accurate ) if you could read all the data in one draw cycle like you are shooting it.
http://www.manchuarchery.org/bows
Stringing the bow in the field--step threw method, just make sure you are pushing and pulling on the correct places.
This is James Parker's design, he makes horn bow also so I believe it's a good design.
He changes lam taper or width or what ever accordingly to what he gets on his 1st bow off the form to make it bend like he wants.
All of the limbs are work but the knee's work the most.
Someone on here a few weeks ago quoted some horn bow maker saying something like bending out of the riser and drawing back as far as possible and a few other things. (can't find the post).
When the bow is braced there is a gap(concave) in the center of the limb at the knee from the tension of the fiberglass.
Post by: Kirkll on October 02, 2022, 08:31:22 PM
Now I have played with building limbs with a cupped cross cut profile before coming out of the forms, and it’s incredible how much the draw weight it increases doing this.
Of course the first time I did it, it was a boo boo. I had the gap in my form above the air hose too far apart and all the pressure went to the center of the limbs and caused a cup shape limb…. I came in 15# over draw weight on those limbs, and sanding glass was tricky on a cup shape limb.
You remember OL AdCock? Built those long bows with a cupped limb and even spent a lot of money to patten that limb design….. the dad burn things were pretty fast too…. I can’t remember what he called that design…. Kirk
Post by: garyschuler on October 02, 2022, 10:16:01 PM
Post by: Mad Max on October 02, 2022, 10:22:34 PM
Tension trumps compression, My opinion the tension over rides the compression and the belly convex and the back concaves
James Parker made a boo boo too and that OL guy said something about suing him.
James said you can't sue me for making a mistake on gluing up a bow. :biglaugh:
He told me that back in January when I went to visit him.
Quote Kirk "Now I have played with building limbs with a cupped cross cut profile before coming out of the forms"
Tell me how you made the form?
Post by: onetone on October 02, 2022, 10:40:38 PM
“We can now summarize the design characteristics of a fast bow … 1. make it as short as possible and the limbs, including the bending section, as thick and narrow as possible 2. draw as far as possible 3. reflex the limbs as much as possible 4. keep the bending as close to the grip as possible for the longest limb path. All four requirements can be met, but only within the constraints of material properties, the skill of the bowyer and by the strength of the archer.”
Post by: Mad Max on October 03, 2022, 07:30:22 AM
Post by: Kirkll on October 03, 2022, 10:24:05 AM
yes it's flat when un braced.
Tension trumps compression, My opinion the tension over rides the compression and the belly convex and the back concaves
James Parker made a boo boo too and that OL guy said something about suing him.
James said you can't sue me for making a mistake on gluing up a bow. :biglaugh:
He told me that back in January when I went to visit him.
Quote Kirk "Now I have played with building limbs with a cupped cross cut profile before coming out of the forms"
Tell me how you made the form?
Yup… that was it ACS . :thumbsup: Sometimes I wish I could just re boot the hard drive in my mind. There is a lot of info in my head I have a hard time accessing at times. It’s like all my memory got shifted to the cloud, and I have internet connection issues periodically… it’s frustrating knowing I know something, but can’t access it instantly.
The forms I was getting a cupped cross section were std 1.75” in width, and no different from any other forms I’ve built. but I was using 2” width glass in an attempt at taming down a radical recurve limb shape with extra width. I had over inflated the hose to about 70# and rounded out the hose too much. And that pretty much put all the pressure in the center of the limb and created the cup….
The whole project was a complete abortion, and the limbs I had wasted were way to curvy to even use for tomato stakes much less fit in my wood stove.
I tried a similar attempt on a long bow limb to purposely come up with a cupped cross section using 1.75” glass on a 1.5” form . Oh I got a cupped limb, but it wasn’t consistent enough to get both limbs with the same cross section just using an air hose, and the bow was off tiller almost 2” and bending in different locations….. I promptly threw in the towel shortly after that trying to replicate a cupped crosse section, and started experimenting with wedges and taper rates to get what I wanted.
Even the AdCocks ACS was considered somewhat vertically unstable in my opinion. Especially the lower draw weight models. Over 50# were ok… but less than 45# were kind of floppy at the tips.
Btw… that patent has long since expired, so if you feel so inclined to play with it , fear not any legal retribution. But It’s not worth the frustration in my opinion.
OL AdCock was an accomplished flight shooter for many years and attended the national flight shooting competition in Utah every year, but I never met the man personally. I have no idea whether he is still kicking or not.
Kirk
Post by: Mad Max on October 03, 2022, 10:57:43 AM
Post by: mmattockx on October 03, 2022, 11:07:57 AM
Are you saying that cup in the glass isn’t there without a string??? Now that’s a brand new concept ive never heard of….
Take a flat wood lam and bend it to a pretty sharp radius. Not enough to damage it, but a lot of bend. Now lay a straight edge across it, it will be cupped just like MM shows.
Tension trumps compression, My opinion the tension over rides the compression and the belly convex and the back concaves
It's not tension trumping compression, it is the change in width that does it. When you take a rubber band and stretch it, it becomes narrower as it gets longer. All materials do this. It is the lateral change in width that accompanies any length change. This effect is called the Poisson Effect.
The effect is quantified by Poisson's Ratio. For example, Poisson's Ratio for carbon steels is 0.29. For every 1% strain longitudinally the lateral strain will be 0.29%. Under tension materials get narrower, under compression they get wider.
The cupping is caused because the tension side of the limb is getting narrower while the compression side is getting wider. To accommodate these changes the limb cups toward the tension side.
Mark
Post by: onetone on October 03, 2022, 11:18:07 AM
Post by: Mad Max on October 03, 2022, 12:22:04 PM
Post by: mmattockx on October 03, 2022, 03:04:22 PM
0.29 or .0029?
That's a good question and needs clarification. I shouldn't have said 0.29", that wasn't correct. The ratio is actually the ratio of strain, which is the amount of change per unit length. Poisson's ratio for steel is indeed 0.29, but that means the lateral strain will be 0.29 x the longitudinal strain. So if the longitudinal strain is 0.1% then the lateral strain will be 0.29 x 0.1 = 0.029%. To get the actual measured amount of lateral deflection you would need to take the width you are measuring and multiply it by 0.00029 (0.029% converted to a straight decimal). If the width was 10" then the change would be 10 x .00029 = 0.0029".
I will go back and correct my last post.
Mark
Post by: Mad Max on October 03, 2022, 04:14:34 PM
Post by: Kirkll on October 03, 2022, 05:41:09 PM
If the cup is turned upside down it folds over instantly….. It does the same thing on a bow limb and increases the strength a lot as it’s drawn. but…. looses vertical stability proportionally, so the geometric shape of the limb from butt to tip is very important to balance it out. Also the width profile is critical to have both limbs bend the same…
I had no idea the limb actually flexed along the cross section like that… Why did you have to go and tell me that? Now I’m going to have to check this out myself. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
So on these Turkish style bows you are building with glass, what type of width profile are we looking at? Kirk
Post by: onetone on October 03, 2022, 05:57:53 PM
Post by: Mad Max on October 03, 2022, 07:25:48 PM
1 1/8” wide w/ a slight taper only at the beginning rigid levers.
Yes that is what it is, James told me it was a test for me to make it, I passed :bigsmyl: then he told me to make one 1" wide, 1" is how wide it suppose to be. One day I will try again. fingers crossed.
Kirk the gap at brace is tiny but there, maybe .010
Post by: mmattockx on October 04, 2022, 11:00:25 AM
I had no idea the limb actually flexed along the cross section like that… Why did you have to go and tell me that?
:biglaugh:
Mark
Post by: mmattockx on October 05, 2022, 10:52:38 AM
I would not say that fiberglass bows are more radical.
I missed this in my replies...
I didn't say that FG bows are more radical than the sinew/horn bows. I agree they aren't for the most part. I was just saying that FG can withstand much more strain than either sinew or horn and it should be possible to make a more radical bow design using FG instead of the natural materials. In doing that I suspect the main problems would be keeping the core wood from failing and keeping the string on the bow.
We don't use anywhere close to all the capacity of FG in our bows. Long before we get close to the limits of the material strength we hit stability problems with the narrow, deep limb sections that FG lams allow.
Mark
Post by: Mad Max on October 05, 2022, 01:44:33 PM
I would not say that fiberglass bows are more radical.
I missed this in my replies...
I didn't say that FG bows are more radical than the sinew/horn bows. I agree they aren't for the most part. I was just saying that FG can withstand much more strain than either sinew or horn and it should be possible to make a more radical bow design using FG instead of the natural materials. In doing that I suspect the main problems would be keeping the core wood from failing and keeping the string on the bow.
We don't use anywhere close to all the capacity of FG in our bows. Long before we get close to the limits of the material strength we hit stability problems with the narrow, deep limb sections that FG lams allow.
Mark
Did you read this link I posted earlier?
http://www.manchuarchery.org/bows
Post by: mmattockx on October 05, 2022, 02:02:06 PM
Did you read this link I posted earlier?
http://www.manchuarchery.org/bows
I have seen it before. The one comment about modern composites isn't very valid because he is comparing different bow designs, so it isn't apples to apples. Make a Turkish horn bow design using modern materials and I expect it will outperform the natural materials.
Mark
Post by: onetone on October 05, 2022, 10:22:25 PM
10 1/2” of reflex from line between the string nocks to the belly of the riser. This is the first draw with a trial string and the hook wasn’t quite centered. Initial DW @ 28” is 52# Hoping this version proves to be more durable. Included a pic of the concave distortion on the back of the bow when braced.
There have been questions and comments re bracing these extreme reflex bows. As Max mentioned it can be done with the leg through method which is quick and direct. However, it is necessary to pay close attention to the process so bow doesn’t snap around between your legs, if you get my drift. Also it is important to be careful not to twist the limbs while bracing as these bows are more subject to misalignment during bracing. The horse archers of old had many methods to brace their bows, some of which could be done while riding a horse!
Max thanks for the video of the Vegh bow being brutalized. That removed any remaining doubts I had about fiberglass being able to stand up to the stresses exerted by these rad reflex bows.
Post by: Kirkll on October 05, 2022, 11:25:25 PM
But I really like the looks of the Turkish design…. You guys are killing me here. I’m getting the itch to try one of these real bad. Kirk
Post by: Mad Max on October 06, 2022, 07:34:08 AM
Kirk :laughing:
Post by: onetone on October 06, 2022, 10:24:04 AM
Post by: Kirkll on October 08, 2022, 12:16:34 PM
Yeah Kirk, you make one of these Turks and next thing you know you’ll be wanting to get a horse! :biglaugh:
I spent 30 years raising my own beef and never owned a horse. When my youngest daughter was first wanting a horse at a young age, I took her to a stable, and had her mucking out stalls, learning about grooming, feeding, and taking care of the tac. Then she learned the required exercise the horses needed whether the were riding them or not…..and the daily attention these horses need.
I told her that her papa was not going to take care of Her horse…. She had to do it.
She quickly got over her desire to own a horse, and I always preferred a quad myself for the ranch. I put gas in it to run fences and chase cattle. Changing oil once a year, beats taking care of horses, and they don't eat as much either. Horses are expensive animals to own too.
Oh I didn’t a bunch of riding in my early 20’s . I spent a lot of time working at a riding stable in Denver Co. including round up, and getting the horses tamed down a bit before the urban cowboys and girls came out to ride them. It’s amazing how much spunk those horses get being out on the range all winter. Saddle bronc riding wasn’t uncommon. :biglaugh:
I even did a bit of rodeo riding in 80-81. I always wanted to ride a bull, and I did a few times too.trust me….. It’s a bit different than those mechanical bulls they had in the dance halls.
But ….. I just turned 67, and I doubt very much the seat of my pants will ever touch a saddle again…. But the horse bows I can do on the ground just fine.
So there is my horse story…. Kirk
Post by: onetone on October 08, 2022, 03:54:31 PM
Post by: Kirkll on October 09, 2022, 12:48:41 AM
The motor cycles are fine for some guys. But Me…. I always preferred full throttle on the dad burn things, and almost killed myself a few times doing it…. I had a buddy that had a Suzuki 900 RM with a turbo that was almost the death of me. He told me to take it easy until I hit the freeway before opening her up, or I’d get myself in trouble….. So I did…. When I hit the freeway on-ramp, the traffic was non existent that morning, and when I hit the throttle on that baby she stood up on her rear wheel and almost threw me off from the gate…. By the time the front wheel hit the pavement again I was coming past 95 mph…… WOW! What a rush!
I lived through it, thanked him kindly for the experience, and never got on a big bike again for many many years. That damn thing was a crotch rocket! :o :o
In my late 40’s to early 50’s I almost bought an old Harley sportster though… that was a nice road bike I liked the feel of… but I passed once again. I chose wisely too.
I repaired a guys roof on a ranch one time in exchange for using a trail horse to go hunting with for a week one time…. That was a fun trip, but the horse was a pain in the ass at times. That was a solo trip I took. Go ride the high lonesome sort of thing…. I trailered that horse for 160 miles up into the mountains by myself. Learned a bit about trailering horses too. Lol
I figured out that horse had never been close to much gun fire before too. I shot a grouse with my pistol while still in the saddle…. Don’t ask whether I hit the grouse, because I couldn’t tell you. The next thing I know that horse took off like a race horse through the trees and raked me off in the first 50 yards…. I had to walk back to camp…. Luckily the horse got hungry and made its own way back to camp later in the day and all my gear was still in the saddle bags and the rifle in the scabbard….. That was my last horse adventure, and about the same time I got into archery hunting.
A couple of my nine lives were given up on crotch rockets and horses… lol
Post by: Mad Max on October 09, 2022, 01:42:04 AM
A couple of my nine lives were given up on crotch rockets and horses… lol
This is all I saved from that long post . :laughing: :laughing:
:laughing: :laughing: :bigsmyl:
Post by: Kirkll on October 09, 2022, 11:14:16 AM
But…..If I had been packing a horse bow instead of that 357 mag, I’d have probably saved some knots on my gourd that trip. :biglaugh:
Post by: Bryan Adolphe on October 09, 2022, 01:47:51 PM
Post by: Kirkll on October 10, 2022, 10:54:23 AM
I too prefer a quad or my boot leather, fed a horse a carrot one day at the farm , turned my back and he bit me. That was the end of story for long face and i.
How was the meat on that horse after you butchered it? I never cared much for horse meat myself. :biglaugh:
Post by: Bryan Adolphe on October 10, 2022, 12:11:04 PM
Post by: Kirkll on October 10, 2022, 02:17:12 PM
Post by: onetone on October 10, 2022, 02:59:58 PM
Post by: Buggs on October 10, 2022, 05:43:46 PM
Sorry probably shouldn’t be posting hunting pictures nonrelated bow building stuff ! So I removed it Kirk just to clear that up I didn’t shoot the horse we just parted ways I much prefer eating moose but I’ve never tried horse before. Lol Bryan
You never tried Alpo?
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Post by: onetone on October 10, 2022, 06:03:11 PM
Post by: Mad Max on October 10, 2022, 10:48:58 PM
Post by: onetone on October 10, 2022, 11:52:24 PM
Post by: Mad Max on October 11, 2022, 07:42:53 AM
Post by: onetone on October 11, 2022, 07:56:27 AM
Post by: Mad Max on October 11, 2022, 09:35:30 AM
Post by: mmattockx on October 11, 2022, 11:27:32 AM
Mark
Post by: Bryan Adolphe on October 11, 2022, 01:41:14 PM
Post by: onetone on October 11, 2022, 04:38:33 PM
Thanks for the comments guys.
Sorry, I’m traveling and sorta messed up in the airport. Anyway, mm here’s a an unbraced pic I found on my phone.
Post by: onetone on December 07, 2022, 11:44:02 PM
Post by: Mad Max on December 08, 2022, 07:44:42 AM
:bigsmyl:
Post by: Longcruise on December 08, 2022, 09:52:55 AM
Got a decent snow recently and had some idle time in the shop so I am finishing up a couple of Ottoman style bows that have been in the works for awhile. This one below is curly maple 48” long BH 6 3/4” DW 44#
That is a beautiful piece of work!
Post by: Kirkll on December 08, 2022, 12:23:04 PM
Post by: onetone on December 08, 2022, 05:33:20 PM