Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Bowguy67 on April 05, 2022, 05:32:57 PM
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That thread bout the stemmler (another place) got me thinking bout some great days. Lenny’s shop was the first true pro shop I was ever in. Sure there were other shops sold bows but not like his. I remember taking my bowhunter ed there. I liked it so much I took it 3 times. 2/3 time w my ex wife, was my gf back than and my little brother. Believe this or not, my first hunter Ed guy wore pink shorts. Never forget that as it was so uncommon. He prob called it salmon or something but even that was a unusual those days.
I can still actually smell the stale cardboard and cigar smell when you walked in. I mentioned that to Lenny when I last saw him. Can feel the floor under my feet move some. Remember how dark the entry area was especially on bright days. But what a great shop. 13 miles I think from NYC and he’d check deer on the sidewalk, and there were always deer to check it seemed. One of my first archery deer was tanned across the street. Archery was really archery. Even the compound guys shot fingers. Maybe a stick on bear rest and silencers. Simpler, uncluttered times.
I’d find any reason to take the drive down there. Wish there was still a shop like his around. Full of honest to goodness bowhunters, living the life. Maybe not the best as far as marketing was concerned but it wasn’t about that. It was about the bows, arrows, deer and the brotherhood. To some of us it still is.
Who else can share stories bout the place?
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I can, met him once pre Tradgang with Andy Prisco.
Great shooting coach for sure, took what I could and left what didn't fit my hunting style on the table. He was BIG on bale work.... most probably don't even know what that means today.
Just once but great memory.
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Btw, the number of people that post that knew who he was will tell the tale of the total lack of Trad history with today's 'bowhunter'.
Sorry, just speaking it.
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I’m sorry Terry, I think I’m losing something in your writing. Forgive me. I’m not sure what you’re getting at?
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Read his published articles and parts in books, but never met the man.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2:
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Len is pure class!
30 years ago I was a new young broke archery rep with two kids under 3. He saw my ten year old Golden Eagle bow and said he can't have a rep he liked not having the latest bow it would hurt me with some dealers.
He reached up on his rack and gave me a new Continental Archery Tundra compound and said when I can afford it pay him. I was shocked at the generosity and literally nearly cried because at the time a new bow was no where in the conversation of buying with our money.
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I shot in Lenny shop in the 60s and 70s still remember uncle Smokey and Lenny‘s mother may . We went on hunting trips in a buss to Wawayanda State Park. When I shot my first buck on a Saturday I didn’t find it till Sunday morning and gave Lenny a call at his house he came out in his pajamas and we went to the shop to take pictures and weigh the buck . Always remember the sign when you walked in through these halls pass the worlds greatest archers. And the game dinners he had I Wone the squirrel contest one year with two squirrels I still have the trophy I guess who handed me the trophy that was sitting behind me Howard Hill. 1971 I believe. Great memories
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I remember that as well. Great memories
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Took my bowhunter test there as well with Smokey. Years later Lenny measured my bear skull for P&Y. Also met up with him in IL, deer hunting. Great guy, great shop as well. Many memories.
ALDO
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There's plenty of "local legends" all across the country no one has heard about. I grew up in Wisconsin. My mentor in my early years bowhunting told me that his Dad was Fred Bear's hunting buddy when he came to Wisconsin to hunt. Never saw a word written about him.
For the record I've heard and read some of Len's stuff. But I'm an old fart.
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Len is more than a local legend.
He was a writer for over twenty years for Bowhunter Magazine, 10 years for Bowhunting World and several years for Outdoor Life. Is in the Bowhunting Hall of Fame, the Archery Hall of Fame and coached Olympic archers. He was probably the first offering video coaching in the world. I just looked up his profile and he is a level 5 coach. I wasn't aware there was a level 5 instructor since I heard Tom Clum say on a podcast that he is a level 4 instructor and there were only like 4 or 5 in the country.
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I live quite a ways from where Len had his shop, but I did make it down there in the early nineties.
During those years Len would get a group together and come up to hunt at my bear camp.
I still have the recurve he brought up for me, which was the same model as the one he used to hunt with at the time.
At this very moment I'm looking at a picture of Len and I with a good sized bear he killed with that recurve... great memories.
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Here's another example of an innocent thread that gets negative water tossed on it by someone who preaches against such.
No need to even refer to "most probably don't know", etc. Just a swipe at at people without some age on them.
I find these days I come to TG to read the last not so subtle jab at bystanders. Sort of like a train wreck.
Yep, after all these years, this is the first off the rails post by yours truly, but the crap keep coming from the same vine swinger.
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Here's another example of an innocent thread that gets negative water tossed on it by someone who preaches against such.
No need to even refer to "most probably don't know", etc. Just a swipe at at people without some age on them.
I find these days I come to TG to read the last not so subtle jab at bystanders. Sort of like a train wreck.
Yep, after all these years, this is the first off the rails post by yours truly, but the crap keep coming from the same vine swinger.
I have found out this is directed at me. Feel free to call me... 706-264-0723.
In NO WAY did I propose such a thought. What I basically said was that's most younger bowhunters have no clue of who came before us AND THEY DON'T CARE.... I was paying homage to Len. If you don't like that I can't help you.
Hope you continue to enjoy the site... everyone has my number now.... if you are so concerned about the future of trad bowhunting ... Call.
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Terry if I could reading it I myself was unsure what you were saying and I wondering if you were upset or something. Your explanation clears it all up and makes sense. Your post now makes sense too and I totally agree w you. I know you don’t need me to say so but that may be what happened to Bowwild as well. Just a thought and I hope it was ok I mentioned this. In life we’ve all had written words taken not the way we meant. Imo this is what happened. We’re all brothers
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There's plenty of "local legends" all across the country no one has heard of.
Len was an Olympic coach and not "just a local". He was in the well known circle nationally.
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No worries Bowguy, I'm just not going 'the way of the world'.. I am going to speak my mind and my convictions... the 'fem feelings movement' be damned.
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There's plenty of "local legends" all across the country no one has heard of.
Len was an Olympic coach and not "just a local". He was in the well known circle nationally.
Exactly!!!!!!! GA is NOT local to Jersey.
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Btw, I got an email about my post claiming that I was chiding folks that 'didn't have any age on them'.... I met Len when I didn't have any 'age' on me but i knew who the Wensels were, Howard Hill, Glen St Charles etc when I was 'ageless'.....
Too many are offended and comment at people they have no clue about.
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Folks.
I called Terry and he and I had a friendly, frank conversation. We talked about the purposes of the Gang and how the world seems to be going mad all around us. I explained, like some folks I choose to insulate myself from some of the craziness by avoiding popular digital communication platforms. Sure, I keep up with the news, but that's about it.
We agreed that a great direction for TradGang is to continue to be a positive, helpful, and entertaining force in the world of traditional archery.
I want to provide one example of a tone issue Terry and I talked about. Rather than suggest that most people don't know this or that, take a moment or two to explain this or that without reference to another's supposed lack of knowledge. For example, shooting a blank bale is meant to help one focus on the process rather than "score" and is helpful for the beginner and the advanced archer from time to time.
To the few folks who sent me PMs. I thank you and I will continue to support the TradGang, not that someone as inconsequential as myself is much help.
I hope I haven't irritated anyone more than I have my wife today.
Roy
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Thx Roy....
And agreed, other platforms be damned. Lots of things hunters are fighting for and some of us are VERY passionate about it.
Ya can't be 'famous' for nothing like the Kardashians..... cause we ain't out to be famous anyway..... it's all about trad bowhunting.... but there are false personas run amuk on other platforms which Roy was not aware of as he is absent from them.... take note.
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I spent a lot of time in Lenny's shop, Butts and Bows.He had a big Brown Bear mount standing on it's hind legs. It was in a glass enclosure. Very impressive. He killed it on the Alaska Pennisula
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I worked at Butts for a few years… Lots of stories..
One that comes to mind…
Occasionally squirrels would end up in the drop ceiling. When this happened we would canter leaver one of the tiles down range and put some peanuts on it.. then wait with the range bows…great memories.
Len is not doing so well now he’s in a home with onset dementia I have seen him recently and he seemed all there but others said it comes and goes..
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Many great man and woman, are in the same situation. Time waits for no man/woman!
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
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Sad to hear. Dementia is horrible, and most times more so for the family than the person afflicted. I hate to hear that. God Speed to the family.
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I have thought several times before responding to Terry's lament about many younger bowhunters not knowing or caring about Trad History. I think that is a natural response to something new. Most of us get caught up in the present quest to learn to shoot and to become a successful hunter. The appreciation for the history and those who built our traditions develop more slowly. We pick up a story here and there and become interested in learning more. Then we read books and magazine articles, we attend seminars, we discover sites such as Trad Gang, and, lo and behold, this stuff is interesting. Then, we begin to understand the importance of those who shaped this sport so many years ago. More importantly, as we mature, we seek ways to expand the values and traditions that not so long ago never crossed our minds. At least, that is how my journey flowed. I know that I still don't know much, and that this site has been a major factor in my understanding of the little bit of trad lore that I do understand. So, don't be too despondent about what so many of the newbies don't seem to care about. We were all new and clueless at one time. While it is true that some will never take to heart the old ways, many just haven't realized yet how interesting and important the old timers and their traditions are to our way of life. Now, I'm not well known for being the eternal optimist, but I believe that the majority of the younger people will take a greater interest in the stories of old. Those that don't pick up on any of it will likely be those who will ultimately wander away from trad when the next new fad catches their fancy. So, let's keep passing down the stories. Sorry to be so windy, but I feel we are doing OK as a brotherhood.
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I have thought several times before responding to Terry's lament about many younger bowhunters not knowing or caring about Trad History. I think that is a natural response to something new. Most of us get caught up in the present quest to learn to shoot and to become a successful hunter. The appreciation for the history and those who built our traditions develop more slowly. We pick up a story here and there and become interested in learning more. Then we read books and magazine articles, we attend seminars, we discover sites such as Trad Gang, and, lo and behold, this stuff is interesting. Then, we begin to understand the importance of those who shaped this sport so many years ago. More importantly, as we mature, we seek ways to expand the values and traditions that not so long ago never crossed our minds. At least, that is how my journey flowed. I know that I still don't know much, and that this site has been a major factor in my understanding of the little bit of trad lore that I do understand. So, don't be too despondent about what so many of the newbies don't seem to care about. We were all new and clueless at one time. While it is true that some will never take to heart the old ways, many just haven't realized yet how interesting and important the old timers and their traditions are to our way of life. Now, I'm not well known for being the eternal optimist, but I believe that the majority of the younger people will take a greater interest in the stories of old. Those that don't pick up on any of it will likely be those who will ultimately wander away from trad when the next new fad catches their fancy. So, let's keep passing down the stories. Sorry to be so windy, but I feel we are doing OK as a brotherhood.
Good post Sam
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Man I’m sorry to hear bout Lenny. Prayers sent
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Sam, it's the 'me too' syndrome. Can't ignore social media and the need to be 'Famous' that is self proclaimed to be forced on the young by those that provide it. Most are blind to it, but the guilty of providing it admit it... that they want to addict people to such avenues. Soooooo many are still asleep.... and on false positive platforms.
A great test will be the Little Bow Raffle... lets see if there is any passion enough to carry the torch.... or will I give everyone their money back?
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Terry, I don't really disagree with your comments. The "me too" sentiment and desire for fame is very real. My point, though, is that most who truly take trad to heart will mature with age and experience. The bulk of those who only want to make themselves look good will probably leave the trad scene when the next new fad comes along, leaving those who are really enthusiastic about "our" form of archery and bowhunting to carry the torch. Just think of the number of converts that come over from the compound camp, who over time develop an attitude that we recognize as being "trad". All I'm saying is that I believe traditional archery is in good hands now and will continue to be in the future. We just have to make sure that we introduce the newbies to the ideas that most of us hold dear. Chin up my friend. As we say in the more southern part of the state, "Everything gonna be all right". I bet you boys in the north of the state use that same phrase from time to time.
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Seems like this gentleman may deserve a spot in the legends and pioneers section . . .
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As we say in the more southern part of the state, "Everything gonna be all right". I bet you boys in the north of the state use that same phrase from time to time.
Nah, we say let's make it right, like northern Quillian did, so we do. We just don't flippant kick the can down the road like Carter south ga peanut wander with the wind did.. So glad he didn't carry the torch or we would all be.....
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Thanks to the OP for sharing stories about Len and his bow shop. I could picture it in my mind and wish I could have gone there. It reminds me of a bow shop I went to as a kid in the late 70’s-80’s. I really enjoyed the thread until around the middle where people started arguing about crap I still don’t understand and really ruined this. Thanks to those who talked about Len and his bow shop. Sounds like a great guy and wish I could have met him.
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I have a great Len Cardinale story. Many years ago, I was flying into Newark, NJ on the last leg of my flight. On that plane, I saw Len with two of his friends on the way home from a successful musk ox hunt. I sat with them and heard all about their hunt. I asked if they were able to bring back their meat and trophies. They told me they had brought everything back as excess baggage. They had boxed the meat and wrapped each skull with horns in multiple layers of green garbage bags bound tightly with tape and string. When the flight ended, we were standing at the baggage claim conveyor belt, which happened to be the type that came up from the basement that plops all luggage onto a revolving pick-up turnabout. Unbeknownst to Len or anyone else, all three of their green plastic bags didn't fare well during transport and fell apart. Each bloody skull with the blue eyeballs intact had thawed out and came up the conveyer belt to plop onto the turnabout. There was a baggage attendant standing right there with a big luggage cart hoping to make some tips. When these three skulls made their appearance with a firm plop, the luggage carrier dude yelled, abandoned his cart, left his post and ran off. Two women passengers started screaming. Len and his buddies each grabbed their things and made a fast exit. You had to be there.... :help: :goldtooth: :laughing:
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:laughing: :biglaugh:
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:laughing: Thanks for sharing Gene!!
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Great story!
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
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Made it back to NJ with a couple friends this weekend and went to Lincoln Park for a 3D shoot. Lenny made and appearance. Got to say hello, been a long time since I have seen him. It was great to see him at the table talking with friends about shooting and hunting. Wasn't till after I left that I realized I should have taken a photo of him and John "Lefty" Battone talking. Missed opportunity for sure.
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Hey Aldo… Mark Kronyak here…
Here’s Len at the shoot this weekend…
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Thanks Mark - much appreciated!
Glad to see that he can get around to places that are still important to him.
Nice to see a recent picture, I haven't seen him in a long time.
If you see him again, please say hello for me and that I'm thinking of him.
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Ken!!!
Hey did ya notice John Mascellino in the photo?
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Thanks Mark. Glad someone had the sense to snap a photo. Hope all is well with you.
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I didn’t take it just to be honest
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Mark - I thought that the guy sitting beside Len looked familiar!
John used to always come up to hunt bears in the early years when I worked with Claude... no matter how far away we were.
I'm glad John is still around... and happy for Len to be able to spend time in familiar places and with old friends.
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Just hung up the phone with Len… sounded and spoke truly wonderful..He remembered more things than I did…lol
Terry he told me about a poster/photo you sent of a Hill longbow with several autographs on it.. he’s gonna hang it over his bed he said… also said ty
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Shug you should tell him lots of guys are reminiscing about great memories because of him and there’s a thread about it now.
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I did.. I actually read him some of the posts..
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Nice!
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Where in NJ Bow Guy?
My name is Mark Kronyak maybe we know each other?
Definitely some of the same people
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I remember a "Len Cardinale" Signature recurve bow. Does anyone have any info ?
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The Stemmler take down? I had one 75lbs. That was back in the day when men were men and you’d never see the “Is 17lbs enough weight” threads”!
Fellows I’m only kidding. We all got older and more injured
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I remember a "Len Cardinale" Signature recurve bow. Does anyone have any info ?
Stemmer and wing both made a signature L/C bow…
Stemmler actually made two designs.. one was a big blocky riser and years later they made much more stream lined model
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Len- Myself - John Mascellino
And will Jimeno(standing)
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Len did a great service to us all when he introduced the bale. Period.
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I do remember Len Cardinale from Bowhunter Magazine, or was it Bow & Arrow, or NFAA Archery. It was many deer season ago. Here is a link to his profile in Archery Hall of Fame & Museum. Congratulations Len and thanks for the memory.
http://www.archeryhalloffame.com/Cardinale%20Len.html
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I was going there in the '70s when his mother was still working there. I bought a new Bear green stripe there. I also bought Fred Bears World of Archery. Bought lots of arrows also.
If I remember right when you walked in there it was like a hallway with Stemler recurves on the right then when it opened up there was a glass counter on the right. I can remember seeing the book I bought and a Bear knife set. He also had a Bear wrist compass.
I wish I knew then what I know now. I would have bought all the Bear Knife sets.
I am getting old and my memory is slipping, but that is how I remember it.
He wrote an article back in the '70s about deer grunting and the rut, which was the first time I had ever heard about that. That year I hunted a place called Belvidere. It had many farms with apple orchards and many big bucks. The rut was the real deal there. Bucks were gunting all over the place.
Didn't he have an electric shooting range.
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Couple weeks ago…
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Couple weeks ago…
Is he still coaching and in NJ?
Thanks
Gil
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Still in NJ… not coaching anymore…
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Mark;
Be sure to tell Len that he means allot to some of us young guys!
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
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I spoke to him a couple of times a few years ago. He was very willing to help. Super nice guy.
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I totally agree with the with the bale. All else aside that was the one thing that was the most important part of my shooting and i'm sure it was with others.