Post by: buckeyebowhunter on July 17, 2022, 10:59:01 AM
I started with Easton legacy arrows back in like 2004 and got plenty of pass throughs and kills. Then switched to carbons probably in 2008 for whatever reason. And honestly the results weren't any different as far as penetration. Last season i went back to 2219s with snuffers and 5.5" feathers with a 720 grain arrow. Just blowing through everything.
Gonna stick with this same setup. Probably forever.
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Post by: beemann on July 17, 2022, 02:32:50 PM
Post by: McDave on July 17, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Post by: NinjaVanish on July 17, 2022, 03:37:36 PM
Post by: ESP on July 17, 2022, 03:57:49 PM
Post by: M60gunner on July 17, 2022, 04:06:46 PM
Post by: RIVERWOLF on July 17, 2022, 04:49:50 PM
I LOVE 2018's out of 50-55# longbows. Usually between 145-175 heads. IMHO the small dia. thick walled shafts are not only very versatile , but tough and lethal as well . Smaller dia. is like having more cut to center than you actually do have with your bow . I hope for all of us that a wide range of aluminum shafts are around for a very VERY long time to come.....
Post by: murph60 on July 17, 2022, 05:14:39 PM
Post by: Stringwacker on July 18, 2022, 06:07:13 AM
I love the 2018 and 2117 shaft. I just wish they made the 2018 in the gamegetter shaft...of course I know the movement is for less offerings; not more.
Now I don't know what to do with all my custom made 27.5" woodies!
Post by: RIVERWOLF on July 18, 2022, 07:23:05 AM
In reality , we all should be grateful we have the choices we have ...If they cancel aluminum down the road.....well I hope the world ALWAYS has A LOT of trees ;^)
Post by: buckeyebowhunter on July 18, 2022, 08:10:03 AM
Post by: Dave Lay on July 18, 2022, 09:15:25 AM
Post by: MnFn on July 18, 2022, 09:55:42 AM
I was hunting with a friend who has dropped down in hunting weight and has been shooting 1916s. For kicks I tried one in my 49# Tall Tines and was surprised how well it shot- not perfect but pretty good. So I got a dozen 2016s as I have a little longer draw. They shoot good.
But I still love my woodies and have a few left in 55/60, 60/65, and 65/70. Just not enough.
Post by: Wild Bill MCP 808 on July 18, 2022, 07:09:43 PM
Post by: JR Chambers on July 18, 2022, 07:19:17 PM
Post by: Wild Bill MCP 808 on July 18, 2022, 07:42:13 PM
Post by: JR Chambers on July 18, 2022, 07:43:14 PM
Post by: Kelly on July 18, 2022, 10:34:23 PM
Post by: Wheels2 on July 19, 2022, 07:11:05 AM
Once you go to a .0016" wall, or thicker, they take a lot of abuse before bending.
My archery club has a very good aluminum arrow straightener that does a great job. It requires a bit of patience but it works.
Post by: MSU on July 19, 2022, 07:30:46 AM
Post by: beemann on July 19, 2022, 08:12:16 AM
Post by: Wudstix on July 20, 2022, 08:15:23 PM
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Post by: beemann on July 20, 2022, 09:55:18 PM
Post by: Kevin W on July 22, 2022, 06:34:00 PM
I have always shot Carbon Express Heritage and went to get some more to find out they are hard to come by now! Since I’ve got to get new arrows, this thread got me thinking about trying aluminum due to the price of carbon arrows these days.
I have ZERO experience with tuning or building aluminum arrows. Is the process very different from tuning with carbon where you cut the arrow to stiffen it to get good flight, playing with head weight, etc? What things do I need to know when choosing an aluminum arrow?
Post by: RIVERWOLF on July 22, 2022, 08:21:39 PM
If your under say 55#, Easton tributes are a great "cheaper" choice shaft to experiment with .Test the water with ;)
Aluminum is a great arrow choice .
Best with your quest my friend...................
Post by: Kevin W on July 22, 2022, 09:12:03 PM
Black Widow PSR, 52# @ 28” with a 26 3/4” draw.
Post by: Ben Maher on July 23, 2022, 06:39:40 AM
Post by: RIVERWOLF on July 23, 2022, 07:37:21 AM
If you are firm on 125 points and no weight added...1916 will likely be in your zone also.
If you want to play with point/adapter weight , arrow length, strike plate thickness, string material ....lots of others will work and you can look over the charts to see what kind of "total" arrow weight you will be looking at....
Small dia. thick wall are "hardy" ;) others to take note of ....1820...2013-2114/2115 ...even 2018 ....1820 is only avaiable in 29" length I believe. Its small dia. thick skin make it an excellent hunting arrow imho with shorter draw lengths .
I generally got them to fly great out of 40# recurves , but I think the PSR is built with more of a Longbow grip/shelf/rest ? If that is the case it would/could work as well .
As you know, a lot of factors go into what spine arrow works BEST for you and your setup , shelf cut ,shelf material thickness, STRING MATERIAL, release..etc...these are good starting points and considerations for some testing/tuning.
The 1916 & 2016 likely EXCELLENT starting points with best (on paper;) spines with those specs and keeping the nose weight @ 125 gr.....Both these arrows are avaliable in the cheaper tribute shafting.
Best with your quest my friend !
Post by: Ben Maher on July 23, 2022, 08:02:35 AM
I’d also note that I still have a soft spot for the 2114 ….
Jack Howard’s fave shaft if I’m not mistaken …. Sure , not as tough as a 2016 but really versatile in terms of spine I have found . Also let’s me ad a bit more weight up front and not get ‘loggy’ flight . 2115 is even dandier
2018 is an amazing hunting shaft but sure is heavy when I get 200gns up the front
Post by: Kevin W on July 25, 2022, 09:05:06 AM
Is the Easton # system pretty standard across the different aluminum arrow manufacturers or do they all have their own system?
Post by: dnovo on July 25, 2022, 10:11:14 AM
Post by: NinjaVanish on July 25, 2022, 12:06:35 PM
Post by: Kelly on July 25, 2022, 03:04:27 PM
Post by: Kelly on July 25, 2022, 03:06:42 PM
Post by: Tajue17 on July 25, 2022, 04:36:19 PM
Post by: beemann on July 25, 2022, 11:03:06 PM
Post by: Brazos on July 25, 2022, 11:34:59 PM
Post by: Sean B on July 26, 2022, 06:58:59 AM
Post by: PrimitivePete on July 26, 2022, 04:58:42 PM
Post by: Richmeister on July 26, 2022, 09:01:35 PM
Post by: buckeyebowhunter on July 28, 2022, 04:55:16 PM
Here are two kills from last year with 2219s
Post by: Eecho on July 28, 2022, 05:35:57 PM
Post by: beemann on July 28, 2022, 11:47:28 PM
Post by: buckeyebowhunter on July 29, 2022, 11:06:00 AM
Post by: NinjaVanish on July 29, 2022, 11:20:14 AM
Buckeye Im shooting the 2219's out of my 70@30 30.5 inches long with a 160 grain vpa 3 blade 620 grains total.... 2216's out of the 60 @30
That VPA 3 blade is so sweet. I ran a 190 on a 2117 through one last year. Bounded off about 15 yards and tipped over. Heart shots tend to do that. :archer2:
Post by: beemann on July 29, 2022, 12:09:57 PM
Post by: Overspined on July 30, 2022, 08:55:04 AM
What would be a good size aluminum arrow suggestion for a 40 lb recurve pulling 44# at 29.5"...?
Probably 1916 but if you shoot over 125 grain head it’ll bump you up to 2016. Like all things arrows you have to tune them. Actually recurve you’re probably 2016 and with a heavier head 2018 due to being more center shot I’m assuming.
Post by: Steve Clandinin on July 30, 2022, 10:38:41 AM
Post by: trad_bowhunter1965 on July 30, 2022, 10:49:54 AM
Post by: Hermon on July 30, 2022, 02:40:36 PM
Do any of you guys still have the nock cleaner tool? I don't know if that is the name but it really clean off all the glue and bit of nock. I which I still had mine it would work great on wood as well.
I still have mine.
Post by: beemann on July 30, 2022, 05:26:39 PM
Post by: trad_bowhunter1965 on July 31, 2022, 10:56:00 AM
Like this Blake? Mine is still going strong don't know what I would do without it.....Yes sir that's the one.
Post by: RIVERWOLF on July 31, 2022, 11:11:55 AM
Post by: M60gunner on July 31, 2022, 12:18:54 PM
Post by: hvyhitter on August 01, 2022, 09:25:35 PM
Post by: Buzzard2 on December 05, 2024, 10:12:31 AM
Post by: NY Yankee on December 05, 2024, 12:33:24 PM
Post by: Kelly on December 05, 2024, 02:00:43 PM
Now in my sixth decade seeing a severe drop in bow weight due to some health issues and age I tried aluminums again. Had acquired a good supply of 1820’s, including original green Gamegetters, over the years so they were the first ones I used again. They shot great out of my low 40# bows, even some upper 30’s. They are about the toughest shafts ever made. The 20 wall shafts used to be available in every dia from 16-20 size. Easton gradually eliminated then because of this toughness repeat sales were far and tween. They found that thinner wall stuff like 12 and 13 sizes were the rage for speed and broke/bent so repeat sales were numerous.
About 18 months ago after having to drop bow weight farther, now 25-33#, and the lack of quality low spined woods I started shooting 1713, 1716, 1813, 1816 sizes along with some 1718’s. These 1718’s, only have about 20 shafts, are the old silver 24srt aluminum, but man do they ever shoot out of 30-32# bows with up to 200 grains up front. Mind you my draw length has also decreased due to the same above circumstances now maybe 27” on a good day.
I still couldn’t get away from woodies and recently made up 3 dz from low spined, old POC I acquired. They shoot great and grouped well so I thought. Even split several from Robin Hood type shots. When shooting aluminums recently have Robin hooded 3 and several near more that busted out the nock end-just didn’t stick.
Yesterday was the first day in 7-10 days where the weather cooperated with 50 degree weather with some wind, but I was able to shoot. I shot my 31# longbow and those newly made woodies that I have been using since making them. They didn’t group as well as I was used to but put that off to having not shot any bow for awhile. So after about 30-32 shots I decided to grab 4 1816’s. Wow, using the same 31# longbow I had been shooting with the woods my resulting groups were so much tighter. As I continued shooting the 1816’s they were clanking on top of each other so I had to move my aiming spots around. You see there are no targets on my straw bales but after one arrows is in it I tend to shoot at that, thus over time I break nocks quite frequently, even Robin Hood’s in the past.
So what all this is about and what I have noticed in the past 18 months is that although I love my woodies these aluminums just shoot better and group more consistently, time after time. Reluctantly I am putting my woodies in my rack and shooting/going hunting with aluminums.
Because of my short draw, low bow weights and 28” bop arrow length I am able to shoot 1716, 1813, and 1816 with 125-200 grain points out of my 30-34# bows equally.
Post by: kopfjaeger on December 05, 2024, 02:38:09 PM
Post by: rich k on December 09, 2024, 09:58:01 PM
Quite a number of years ago a group of my friends and I wondered about how arrows and various feather shapes create sound and therefore perhaps a reaction from the game we were hunting. We are all heard, and some of us experienced, Whitetail deer "Jumping the string"upon release. So we wondered about the sound an arrow might make as it flew through the air. Three of us stood behind a large boulder at about 20 yards downrange from the shooters. Various arrows and feather configurations were shot over us towards a 40 yard target. As we were on the down range side of the boulder we were safe. First we tried various feather configurations. As you might imagine the taller feathers were a little bit more noticeable as they passed overhead. I don't remember hearing any sound from the four-inch parabolic feathers, but the flu flus made a pretty loud "whoosh". It seemed that the length of the feathers didn't matter as much as their height. Next we compared wood shafts, aluminum and carbon. The woods were very quiet as well as the carbon. But the aluminum shafts had a slight hum to them as they passed overhead. Maybe that should be more of a concern the compound shooters as we trad hunters tend to shoot real close to our game. I don't think any of us changed our our choice of arrows because of this comparison but it was interesting.
Post by: EHK on December 13, 2024, 07:48:36 AM
I've been shooting GT trads for years and have been happy with them. Recently I found some 2016s in my basement and for giggles gave them a go. Maybe I just got lucky with the length and point weight, but there's no question that I'm shooting them more accurately than the GTs, even though the 2016s bare shaft just slightly stiff.
Bow is a 44 @ 28 Toelke Whistler (drawing 28). GTs are 600 spine, cut to 29", 100 gr insert and 150 gr point. 2016s are cut to 29.5, standard insert and 150 gr point. The GT 600s seem like a better choice, but like I said, the 2016s fly really well.
Post by: LookMomNoSights on December 13, 2024, 08:00:11 AM
Post by: LookMomNoSights on December 13, 2024, 08:21:31 AM
Regardless of anything, it's always interesting to get to see what folks are running for tackle and why they prefer this over that or what they personally have the best results with or get the most satisfaction out of while hunting or shooting.
Post by: EHK on December 13, 2024, 08:34:26 AM
Post by: supernaut on December 13, 2024, 09:40:00 AM
Both carbon and aluminum killed game for me just fine but I like aluminum better.
Post by: LookMomNoSights on December 13, 2024, 09:48:28 AM
Pros of aluminum: straightness!, easy to work with, GPI for trad bows, they won't splinter or shatter, much more resilient than wood in most regards, reasonably priced.
Cons of aluminum: I never had an aluminum I could straighten even remotely close to my liking to being usable again when tweaked or bent out of straightness! That shaft would be trash! I always felt that if (when!) and aluminum shaft bumps into just about anything, there's that metallic ding that's like an air raid horn in the middle of the woods. The colder it was, the worse it sounded. Bumping off your riser, a piece of gear, however it may happen. Lastly, to get real good adhesion for fletch, I would dip my aluminum shafts. Mostly in clear for fast down and dirty, or a white cap dip and cresting and all that if I wanted to make them nice. Either way, still an extra step for ME.
As you can see, not many cons for aluminum and those are just MY experiences with the way I did things.
Pros for Carbon: Straight (enough haha, even the .006), very durable in my experience if you hit something solid and obviously, won't get bent. I would never neglect to flex check one after an undesirably hard hit, paying special attention at the nock end. I've never worried in the rare instance I've had to do this inspection and found no obvious issues.
Easy to work with......just different than aluminum (or wood for that matter). No metallic noise when you bump a shaft into anything. More options for narrow diameters, with most carbons being skinnier than aluminums to start with.
Cons for Carbon: Most average carbons are not as straight as aluminum, unless you spend $$$, which brings us to cost. They can shatter or splinter or however you want to describe the breakage if one where to be compromised/damaged/cracked and you then shot such shaft from your bow. Potentially not a good day.
Guess like most things, it comes down to preference and just what you are looking for or what details out weight this one or that one. What works for you, works for you! And that is what you need!
Depending on how hard you are on your arrows would determine how cost effective aluminum would be compared to carbon, seeing as though (in my experience) carbon takes more of a hit. Carbon is expensive out the gate. But I would argue that if you have a knack for sending them into the hard stuff, the carbon might ..... might .... suit you better, and mostly because as I stated from experiences I've had, a bent aluminum is garbage. That same hit with a carbon might have a better chance at surviving. This being said, I have aluminum arrow sets that are over 30 years old and many of those arrows have been shot more times than I could count. I never hit anything hard with those ones apparently. As I have not shot an aluminum arrow now in at least 15 years, I should go try some for the sake of fun ....... in the end, that's what it's all about really. I am not arguing for any type of arrow shafting here. I really like seeing that aluminum is very alive and well. I really like reading and learning what works for folks and why. I will declare, the camo XX75 aluminum shafting has got to be the best looking of any arrow shaft ever commercially produced! :campfire:
Post by: mgf on December 13, 2024, 10:14:01 AM
I went back to using the aluminums. I still have a bundle of those carbons laying around someplace. I'll use them up eventually.
As long as they keep selling aluminum shafts that fit my needs that's what I'll use.
Post by: NY Yankee on December 13, 2024, 10:32:22 AM
Post by: MCNSC on December 15, 2024, 08:19:40 AM
Post by: Tedd on December 15, 2024, 05:09:47 PM
I have a small fortune in carbon arrows in a box in my barn. After what seems like a million or so shots with carbon arrows and carbon arrow testing on all types of longbows and recurves, I am convinced aluminum is easier to hit the mark with. Last year I came to the conclusion that I won't use carbon anymore. It is either cedar or aluminum.
I just got a 1/2 doz 2117 for a bow that should be arriving any day now. I usually hunt with cedar but do like the idea of being able use lighted nocks with aluminum uni-inserts. I'd like to see someone make more of a variety of glue in/glue on inserts. That seems like a better connection and you could make use of the heavier heads on the market.
Tedd
Post by: Kirkll on December 15, 2024, 10:57:03 PM
I'm seeing more and more of these threads about going back to aluminum from carbon. I wonder if folks are tired of paying the high price for carbon, or if they're seeing a performance difference. If you've made that switch, please share why.
I've been shooting GT trads for years and have been happy with them. Recently I found some 2016s in my basement and for giggles gave them a go. Maybe I just got lucky with the length and point weight, but there's no question that I'm shooting them more accurately than the GTs, even though the 2016s bare shaft just slightly stiff.
Bow is a 44 @ 28 Toelke Whistler (drawing 28). GTs are 600 spine, cut to 29", 100 gr insert and 150 gr point. 2016s are cut to 29.5, standard insert and 150 gr point. The GT 600s seem like a better choice, but like I said, the 2016s fly really well.
I think the reason guys are getting better accuracy with the aluminum shafts is that they are hands down the most consistent in spine stiffness. Carbon doesn't even come close for spine consistency... Actually.... Some carbon shafts are all over the place from one arrow to the next and need to be put on a spine tester to find the stiff side and match them up... Even high end carbon shafts need to be fine tuned with a spine tester to be real accurate...
That being said.... i still shoot carbon shafts because they are either dead straight, or broken... Nothing worse than falling down on a hunting trip with a full quiver of arrows getting bent to ruin your whole day.... Anyone who says they can straighten aluminum arrows to shoot the same as they were new is pulling your leg, or calls 6" groups at 20 yards "Close enough." When you try and straighten an aluminum shaft, it screws up the spine stiffness. They honestly never will shoot well again...
With all that being said....I hunted with Aluminum shafts for many years, and killed a lot of animals with them. When i bent one, i broke them over my knee. Kirk
Post by: Stringwacker on December 16, 2024, 05:34:52 AM
That disclosed, aluminum is straighter, more spine consistent, no deviation from from grain weights, less expensive, and much easier to cut, strip feathers, etc, etc than carbon. Aluminum has been used back as far back as in the late 30's in Olympic competition. For anyone chasing a 'traditional' perspective to their personal journey; I would think aluminum fits.
In fact, about the only significant difference that makes carbon rule the current arrow world is its durability. Given I lose more arrows than I break that's not enough of an advantage to give up the aluminum attributes.
Post by: BigJim on December 16, 2024, 09:54:02 AM
BigJim
Post by: Kirkll on December 16, 2024, 11:42:29 AM
I had some that I chipped the carbon off that I repaired with bondo that worked great too. Expensive little buggers, but great arrows. Kirk
Post by: LookMomNoSights on December 17, 2024, 08:33:43 AM
That shafting was all black, and those veins were all black, with a black nock. I asked the older guy at the shop who was the bow guru there, "What's up with those?" He told me the guy that ordered them wanted all black for 3d so that people would have a hard time aiming for his arrow. It's funny to remember stuff like that from what seems like so long ago.
Post by: Greenstyk on March 15, 2025, 08:25:14 AM
Post by: dnovo on March 15, 2025, 10:57:20 AM
Post by: BigStriper on March 18, 2025, 07:48:23 PM
Post by: Roger Norris on March 19, 2025, 07:38:48 AM
I gave up on wood arrows long ago.....respect to those who can deal with them.
I think back to my most simple time with a recurve or long bow....aluminums were the ticket. Simple, easy to build an arrow, easy to tune....I think you are on to something.
Post by: trad_bowhunter1965 on March 19, 2025, 10:27:12 AM