Post by: Pat B on September 07, 2022, 03:45:51 PM
I will have to get some glue for this glue-up. I do have Urac but as you can guess it is out of date by now and even though it's been in the refrigerator I dare not use it.
Here are a few pics of the beginning...
(https://i.imgur.com/R6ltvVI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yqn9WTP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LoOhYGS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hEvSBmE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/POAVeAW.jpg)
Post by: Buemaker on September 07, 2022, 05:18:18 PM
Post by: Mad Max on September 07, 2022, 08:06:37 PM
I am sure it will be a good one in your experienced hands.
X2 on that one :goldtooth:
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 07, 2022, 08:36:29 PM
Post by: onetone on September 07, 2022, 09:59:19 PM
Post by: Pat B on September 07, 2022, 10:29:09 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 08, 2022, 05:37:27 AM
I get a gallon for about $50.00 and that last all winter with 3 guys making bows.
They sell it in smaller quantities too.
I'm at camp now and can't remember exactly the name of the company.
I'll see if I can find it online.
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 08, 2022, 06:03:16 AM
Post by: Pat B on September 08, 2022, 08:45:35 AM
How's the cabin treating you? I knew once y'all got there you wouldn't want to leave. :thumbsup: :laughing:
Post by: Buggs on September 08, 2022, 09:50:34 AM
That Locust looks like it has some short grain running belly to back. Any concerns about that?
Post by: Pat B on September 08, 2022, 10:02:20 AM
I will pre-tiller the belly first so I get a smooth, even bending before glue up. I'll cut out the back profile soon and start that pre-tillering and keep y'all posted with the results. She may not even make it past that. :dunno:
Post by: Buggs on September 08, 2022, 10:56:31 AM
Post by: Pat B on September 08, 2022, 11:53:19 AM
I found a little lateral warp in the stave so I thought I'd try to straighten it with heat. I clamped it to a old, real, pine 2x4 with a thin spacer at the center line holding it to the form and clamped the end to the 2x4 then heated both sides along the limb. I'll give it a few hours at least and see if it straightened. Any slight lateral bend that may remain I'll deal with once I get the back profile cut out and pre-tillered to an even bending state. At that point there will be less wood to move for the correction.
a few more pics...
(https://i.imgur.com/FMX42V8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/m3MggVJ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rd43KEg.jpg)
Post by: Kirkll on September 08, 2022, 12:05:47 PM
I hope I don't let y'all down. Now I need to locate glue for the backing. I've never used Unibond but if it is similar to Urac and not too expensive I might use it. Otherwise it will probably be TBIII.
The unibond is basically the same product as Urac Pat. Made by the same Nelson Paint Co. I would use that over TBIII for its durability in all weather conditions. Kirk
Post by: Pat B on September 08, 2022, 01:07:04 PM
Post by: Pat B on September 08, 2022, 01:57:23 PM
Post by: Kirkll on September 10, 2022, 10:02:59 AM
I would, Kirk but in my almost 40 years of wood bow building I wouldn't have use 1/2 gallon of Unibond. If I could find a pint or quart I would buy it but so far all I see is 1/2 or 1 gallon sizes.
Well I would probably use it for one project or another myself, so I looked into purchasing some through that site Roy provided. I thought I could buy a gallon and just send you what you need….. but…. They only ship via FED-ex and the shipping is as much as the glue is. :o :o :o
I’m going to have to look into finding a local supplier that carries it. I’m not going to pay $30 shipping for $30 worth of glue….. I gave it a shot bro….
I did notice that they have 3 colors on the hardener powder now. Makes me wonder how clear the white powder looks. The old urac was great for dark woods , but you could see all the glue lines on lighter colored wood.
Has anyone here got any experience with the white hardener? Kirk
Post by: Kirkll on September 10, 2022, 10:05:52 AM
I just released the stave and there was no change so I used a thicker spacer and tried it again isolating the bend a little more. I guess we'll see.
Do you introduce any moisture or steam when you are trying to reshape the stave? Or do you just use heat? Kirk
Post by: Pat B on September 10, 2022, 12:36:45 PM
Usually with slight corrections I just use my heat gun. I get the wood just too hot to touch, clamp it on the form, reheat and let it sit until cool, usually over night. My initial attempt I released it after a few hours. It felt cool to the touch but it didn't help so I used a thicker block(3/8") reheated it well and left it overnight. That brought the offending back in line or almost so. I may do another session before glue up.
I did cut out the back profile on the belly and backing. I think I will glue on the riser so I can start the pre-tillering to get the limbs to bend evenly and together and get a good shape with the riser blending into the belly well.
(https://i.imgur.com/R5tOF9c.jpg)
back view
(https://i.imgur.com/HLGU6AC.jpg)
belly view
That far tip looks a bit off center so I will make an adjustment there before I go any further.
Post by: Kirkll on September 10, 2022, 01:35:38 PM
I'm afraid not. Never worked with it. Sorry.... Kirk
Post by: Pat B on September 11, 2022, 01:27:38 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/WF0RoLg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ORhHDFr.jpg)
...then started the tillering of the belly to get a good, even bend before glue up. At floor tiller it looked like she was bending pretty good so I placed her of the form to see just how good. The blocks on the form are 3 1/4" high where the tips rest. Then I draw the handle area down to see how the side view looks in reflex. I still need a little evening up on each limb...
(https://i.imgur.com/UG164AP.jpg)
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 11, 2022, 02:46:37 PM
At camp now, been here 5 days:)
Prolly going home tomorrow, I can send you some unibond800 when I get home?
Post by: Pat B on September 11, 2022, 03:58:03 PM
I still have some pre-tillering to do before glue up so at your convenience.
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 11, 2022, 04:19:09 PM
Post by: Mad Max on September 11, 2022, 05:12:19 PM
Hurry up Roy, Fed X overnight :readit: :tongue:
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 11, 2022, 06:51:25 PM
Post by: Kirkll on September 11, 2022, 07:06:15 PM
So what exactly are you doing by putting reflex pressure on the limbs? You lost me on that one…
Secondly, are you planning on doing your backing layup in this reflex position? Sort of a Perry reflex theory?
These board bows are a whole different ball game than glass bows. I’m interested in learning more…. Kirk
Post by: Pat B on September 11, 2022, 10:57:53 PM
Post by: Mad Max on September 12, 2022, 12:22:18 AM
Post by: Pat B on September 12, 2022, 09:39:40 AM
Post by: Mad Max on September 12, 2022, 10:22:45 AM
Post by: Pat B on September 12, 2022, 11:46:46 AM
You can barely see the pencil marks in these pics. Too much glare to see it on here well.
(https://i.imgur.com/Do54Erd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ACacDul.jpg)
Post by: Buggs on September 12, 2022, 11:56:12 AM
Post by: Pat B on September 12, 2022, 12:03:50 PM
Post by: Buggs on September 12, 2022, 12:06:34 PM
I'm going to have to make one of those :thumbsup:
Post by: Pat B on September 12, 2022, 12:11:34 PM
Eric probably has a "how to" here on TG. Look it up.
Post by: Buggs on September 12, 2022, 02:46:16 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how the bow is on the form bending toward the belly and you are able to use the gizmo in there?
Post by: Pat B on September 12, 2022, 03:45:41 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 12, 2022, 04:11:51 PM
Here ya go Buggysboy:)
https://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=108906.0
Post by: Buggs on September 12, 2022, 05:32:59 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 13, 2022, 02:24:25 PM
Post by: Pat B on September 13, 2022, 05:17:21 PM
Post by: Minnesota Bill on September 18, 2022, 08:36:43 PM
Bill
Post by: Mad Max on September 18, 2022, 10:51:03 PM
1/16" to 1/8"
Post by: Pat B on September 19, 2022, 08:23:51 AM
Post by: Pat B on September 20, 2022, 02:10:19 PM
Before I added the glue I put masking tape on the belly side of the belly, added Saran wrap to the form and around the glue up before adding the spring clamps. Now we wait. I'll give it until tonight or tomorrow before I release it all to see what I've got. Here are a few pics...
(https://i.imgur.com/YmkTQy7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/y17FQQW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IGLdygB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qOKcFjC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8V7BglQ.jpg)
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 20, 2022, 02:19:04 PM
Post by: Buemaker on September 20, 2022, 03:42:16 PM
Post by: Pat B on September 20, 2022, 03:58:42 PM
Post by: Pat B on September 20, 2022, 04:40:31 PM
BTW, the basement temp is about 75 degrees.
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 20, 2022, 05:04:44 PM
Post by: Buggs on September 20, 2022, 06:15:15 PM
Post by: Pat B on September 20, 2022, 06:21:01 PM
Marcia and I are heading to the farmers market tomorrow to buy boxes of tomatoes to put up so it will be probably about this time tomorrow before we get back and everything stashed. I'll start cooking down the tomatoes on Thursday.
Is there a too high temp? My hotbox has a thermostat that maxes out at 168 degrees.
at 70 degrees, 3 hours, at 80 degrees, 2 hours, at 90 degrees, 1 hour...from the Unibond directions.
Post by: Mad Max on September 20, 2022, 06:42:34 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 20, 2022, 08:13:45 PM
I would never cook a wooden bow above 100 degrees.
Those drying times are for flat unstressed glue up.
Buggs open work time is a good hour, starts to set time is about 4 hours.
24 hours at 90 and it's concrete.
Post by: Pat B on September 21, 2022, 10:59:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/qdSiAZW.jpg)
I removed the clamps and the rubber inner tube bands. With the tips on the table, belly up the handle back is 1 1/2" off the table. One limb has a little more reflex than the other and the glue lines look sloppy. I could tell the glue was fully cured because it only took a minute to draw blood from a sharp edge of glue.
Anyway, here are the limbs...
(https://i.imgur.com/stqbCWQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mmRhqWp.jpg)
I probably won't have time to work on the bow tomorrow. We bought 2, 25# boxes of Roma tomatoes, 8 or 10 bell peppers, about the same amount of onions and a few bulbs of garlic so I'll spend most of the day tomorrow processing tomato sauce to put in the freezer for later use.
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 22, 2022, 06:11:31 AM
Doesn't look bad Pat.
Facets will clean up the sloppy glue lines on the edges.
I leave my belly lam wider than the backing and cut out close to the edge of the backing.
Post by: Mad Max on September 22, 2022, 07:31:49 AM
Have you cleaned up the sides yet?
Post by: Pat B on September 22, 2022, 09:00:41 AM
Also, she probably weighs 100# at least now so there will be a lot of reduction coming up.
I'll be working on tomatoes most of today so this bow is on the back burner at least until tomorrow.
Roy, I'm finding a few little cuts on my hands today. I should use work gloves for that.
I had rubber gloves on to keep from getting glue on them but my fingers pushed through as I rushed to get the glue spread evenly and the inner tube wrap on. Not being familiar working with the glue made me rush through the process. Anyway, it is what it is. We'll see how it turns out.
Thanks for the help and encouragement, guys. :thumbsup:
Post by: Buemaker on September 22, 2022, 09:49:52 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 22, 2022, 09:55:23 AM
Pat, I use a lam padding on the back of the bow and use C clamps on 2 inch centers snugged down pretty snug.
I think you used a plastic spreader to apply the glue? I use a small paint brush and lay it on pretty heavy and get a lot of glue squeeze out.
Post by: Buemaker on September 22, 2022, 10:38:56 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 22, 2022, 10:43:28 AM
I understand Roy, but have you ever done such a test as I did. Things like that drives me nuts.
Well Bue, you don't have far to go:) LOL
Nope never seen the need for that test.
All my failures were the wood letting go and the glue joint stayed intact.
Post by: Pat B on September 22, 2022, 11:15:23 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 22, 2022, 11:47:34 AM
Ifin it comes out a mess, just ship it to the old guy KennyM, he could use a good bow:)
:laughing:
Post by: Pat B on September 22, 2022, 01:56:20 PM
I got done with one 25# box of tomatoes...
(https://i.imgur.com/a4uC3b7.jpg)
...and went to the shop to sand the edges of the bow. Not as bad as I thought...
(https://i.imgur.com/skI8f55.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8xaoQto.jpg)
On a side note I checked my trail cam today. Guess who's peeking...
(https://i.imgur.com/O09EUuZ.jpg)
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 22, 2022, 02:28:28 PM
You like that glue?
The ole boy will have a come back soon. LOL
Post by: Buggs on September 22, 2022, 03:38:55 PM
Also looks like all those good smells are attracting the neighbors!
Post by: Pat B on September 22, 2022, 04:06:32 PM
I have the trail cam down in the lower part of our property on a Cousa dogwood with big red fruit. I noticed a limb broken off a few days ago so I put the camera there. I'd like to get a better pic of him.
Buggs, we have plenty of bears around and their populations are on the rise along with their weights. I just put out bird feeders today and have to remember to take them in each night or they will be gone.
Post by: Mad Max on September 22, 2022, 08:16:01 PM
Post by: Pat B on February 07, 2023, 11:53:33 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 07, 2023, 03:45:43 PM
:laughing:
:wavey:
Post by: Pat B on February 07, 2023, 04:07:35 PM
I've tillered it down to 38"@20" about 10# over my intended 45#@26". I'll post some pics tomorrow.
Post by: Mad Max on February 07, 2023, 05:39:17 PM
Git busy :tongue:
Post by: Pat B on February 07, 2023, 06:33:24 PM
This bow has a locust belly and locust and I aren't very copacetic and one limb has a knot crossing the belly. :dunno:
Post by: Mad Max on February 08, 2023, 12:17:31 AM
Post by: Pat B on February 08, 2023, 01:00:50 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Wn342xk.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xvu636t.jpg)
you can see it at about mid limb.
Here is braced...
(https://i.imgur.com/y67JdgD.jpg)
...a little over half draw...
(https://i.imgur.com/4hLPdcz.jpg)
...and full draw(26")
(https://i.imgur.com/qMLaWmN.jpg)
Not my best job at tiller but it is what it is. I still need to add tip overlays and reshape the limb tips. She draws 42#@26", just under what I was shooting for. She does feel good in the hand with good early draw weight. I'll shoot her some later and report back. I have her sweating at brace and will leave her braced for a few hours.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 08, 2023, 02:01:55 PM
I hope she stays together for you.
Post by: Pat B on February 08, 2023, 02:29:55 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 08, 2023, 05:16:14 PM
Post by: Mad Max on February 08, 2023, 05:47:21 PM
Post by: Pat B on February 09, 2023, 11:41:14 AM
I narrowed the tips and added mahogany overlays(TBIII)...
(https://i.imgur.com/SeytP2R.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/joddDBU.jpg)
..of course the dogs are doing what they like to do on a rainy day.
...and I added the leather handle overlay to fill out the back of the handle. Once the glue dries(TBIII)I'll shape it to the handle...
(https://i.imgur.com/X5b9vJR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kx7r9aU.jpg)
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 09, 2023, 12:11:42 PM
Post by: Pat B on February 09, 2023, 01:27:14 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 09, 2023, 01:51:02 PM
Post by: Buemaker on February 09, 2023, 02:26:11 PM
Post by: onetone on February 09, 2023, 03:18:29 PM
Post by: Pat B on February 09, 2023, 04:31:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/lhh3NO6.jpg)
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 09, 2023, 04:45:40 PM
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Post by: Pat B on February 09, 2023, 04:54:52 PM
Rosie the yellow dog is the toy freak. She loves them all. Maggie the black dog is more into real bears and coyotes. She will nuggie a toy occasionally but they really aren't her thing.
Post by: Mad Max on February 09, 2023, 05:51:47 PM
Looking good Pat
Post by: Pat B on February 09, 2023, 06:25:33 PM
Post by: Buggs on February 10, 2023, 01:11:39 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 10, 2023, 02:08:39 PM
Post by: Pat B on February 11, 2023, 04:09:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/PSHjRsi.jpg)
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 11, 2023, 04:52:07 PM
Post by: Buemaker on February 11, 2023, 05:04:05 PM
Post by: Pat B on February 11, 2023, 06:19:26 PM
Post by: Pat B on February 12, 2023, 11:59:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/xxvr2z5.jpg)
I'm on the 2nd coat of Tru-Oil. Once I get as few more around the handle I'll add the Floppy Rest then a hemp cord wrap on the handle. It's raining today so the Tru-Oil curing will be a bit slower.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 13, 2023, 06:18:56 PM
Post by: Pat B on February 13, 2023, 10:58:19 PM
Post by: Mad Max on February 14, 2023, 09:00:15 AM
https://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=145963.0
I have done it before Devcon 2 ton epoxy .84 fluid oz. and 1/3 cup of Acetone , I double the recipe for about 6 coats out of a spray gun (1 coat every 30 min.), very shiny, I dull it down with 0000 steel wool and us a 3M Final finishing pad to finish it. you can scrub it as hard as you want to polish.
https://www.amazon.com/Devcon-31345-Ton-Clear-Epoxy/dp/B0006O8QQ0
https://www.amazon.com/3M-10199NA-8-Inch-Finishing-2-Pack/dp/B007FXKGAO/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Post by: Pat B on February 14, 2023, 11:40:22 AM
This helps seal the handle, helps stick the wrap to the handle and gives it a positive grip. I have pics of my process that I'll post when I look them up.
Post by: Mad Max on February 14, 2023, 01:27:23 PM
Post by: Pat B on February 14, 2023, 02:23:43 PM
Post by: Mad Max on February 14, 2023, 03:11:19 PM
Post by: Pat B on February 14, 2023, 11:04:24 PM
You have to be sure you wrap the cord the correct direction, going the way your fingers point. If you go the other direction the wrap can loosen over time.
I start the wrap at the top of the handle ares, under the floppy rest for this bow. I lay the tag end along the back of the bow and wrap the cord over the tag...
(https://i.imgur.com/wUT07ry.jpg)
...and wrap 10 or so wraps over the tag...
(https://i.imgur.com/vyWjqW0.jpg)
clip off the tag and continue on...
(https://i.imgur.com/JTfs004.jpg)
When you get near the bottom of the handle lay a separate loop down ans wrap over it...
(https://i.imgur.com/LpqGdTz.jpg)
once you get to the bottom of the handle cut the cord and stick the end through the loop and pull the end of the cord through under the wrap and pull tight then clip the excess cord...
(https://i.imgur.com/PynqjiY.jpg)
...after the handle wrap is complete I like to singe the loose threads that stick out with a cigarette lighter. I didn't take a pic of this.
Now, get the Massey finish ready to saturate the cord wrap. These are what you need to do this...
(https://i.imgur.com/JMDF3i4.jpg)
I'll do the mixing and saturating tomorrow.
Post by: Pat B on February 15, 2023, 10:33:48 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZeAUBtI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/x6t0e4m.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TLBzWIg.jpg)
then I put a wad of 2ton epoxy in a clean container and mix it well...
(https://i.imgur.com/qWKMked.jpg)
then pour about 1/3 of this container with acetone and mix it until the epoxy dissolves...
(https://i.imgur.com/WN6fa1f.jpg)
..and use the rolled paper towel applicator to saturate the cord on the handle. I use as much as it will take...
(https://i.imgur.com/PDdifSx.jpg)
once the wrap is saturated it time to wait for the acetone to evaporate and the epoxy to cure. I don't use any particular recipe. It really doesn't seem to matter for this application.
(https://i.imgur.com/H8un9I7.jpg)
Post by: Pat B on February 15, 2023, 10:49:49 AM
This bow is symmetrical so I grab the handle with my middle finger at the middle of the handle(balance point) and put a mark on the handle at the top of my hand. This is where the rest of the floppy will be. I use contact cement on the bow and floppy Rest, let both dry well then put them together.
(https://i.imgur.com/07gHnui.jpg)
Post by: Mad Max on February 15, 2023, 06:10:52 PM
I always though the epoxy would make the wrap hard and uncomfortable to hold??
Post by: Pat B on February 15, 2023, 06:29:07 PM
Post by: Pat B on February 16, 2023, 12:23:12 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/DGqzU5b.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yX4e1Yn.jpg)
The string does track off the left side of the bow. That must have happened at glue up. Not much to do about that now but she still shoots fine.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 16, 2023, 01:15:07 PM
Post by: Buemaker on February 16, 2023, 02:03:43 PM
Post by: Mad Max on February 16, 2023, 11:02:26 PM