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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Danny Stotler on January 28, 2023, 12:45:25 PM
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Anyone have a diy wood stabilizing technique they could share? I'm not sure what I need to purchase/setup to get this done. Not sure for a small beans onesy twosy bowbuilder is this is something I should invest my money and time on. I know I really like spaulted maple, but to have one stabilized the riser is roughly $160.
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PVC pipe and a vacuum pump
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Crooked stick should chime in here soon .... He's got a bunch of time into playing with the stuff and has it down.
I bought a pump and a large pot to do risers years ago, then built several vacuum chambers from various materials and sizes with mixed results.....Too big a pot, and you need too much juice............. But.... I never was satisfied with the penetration i got, so i quit messing with it.
BTW.... don't try building a vacuum chamber from 1/4" plexi glass.... That was a failure BIG time. :biglaugh:
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If you only gonna do one block better off to buy it already done. If you want I can post some pics of my setup. Have not bought any cactus juice in awhile but sure it has went up. I usally get about 3 Riser size blocks out of a gallon. Then you have some left over. was about $85 a gallon last time I bought any juice
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Your probably right. I've been looking at some larger blocks of wood via ebay on spaulted maple and other less hard woods that would need to be stabilized but the cash outlay may be more than needed. Some on youtube seem to be doing a good job with it for minimal material, but not with the cost of cactus juice.
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If you buy 4 gallons it $70 a gall. Plus shipping.
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It definitely gets expensive.
I started out just like you and went the route of building my own vacuum chamber. It was like a large shoe box thinking I wouldn’t have to have a bunch of extra juice to keep it submerged. Bought a sheet of 4’x4’ 3/4 plexiglass and built all 4 sides and the base. The lid was rabbited out and I made it so it would be wider and longer than the box by 1/4”.
The problem was the only way to seal it good was to silicon the lid down. I tried to make gaskets and such and could never get it tight enough. Who knows how much time I had plus $125 in materials for that dang thing.
I ended up buying a 6”x36” chamber from Turntex and it has worked flawlessly. I get much better results. I have found some woods take the juice much better than others and some that you think would, don’t hardly take on any.
I also bought a long glass vase that is 4”x30” for longer narrow wood pieces that I simply put inside the chamber to save on the amount of juice needed to submerge the piece.
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I think Big Jims Bow Company will do them for you.
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I'm curious how much juice is actually absorbed by the wood? Most wood is around 40% air space, so a 3X3X18" chunk would have about 65cuin of air space, which translates to about a quart of volume. If it really sucked up that much liquid, a riser size chunk would cost around $25. to stabilize. Thats a little over 1 bdft, which means even an inexpensive piece of wood would be over $30. per board ft??
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Buggs. That sounds about right.
I’ve found that of the woods I’ve stabilized, maple, walnut, elm, have absorbed the most juice. My guess has been that I usually spend between $20-$35 on juice per bow.
I’ve tried some really light woods like red cedar to see if it would make it a viable piece and it would not accept any juice at all. On the other hand, I’ve had a 2x4x20 maple riser block weigh as much as 5 lbs after stabilization.
Also of interest. If your wood is not really close to zero moisture content. The juice will secrete back out if it when curing. I think the moisture in the fiber expands and pushes the juice out.
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Yes, Big Jim's will do it for me and I gave him the thumbs up on a riser. I was just curious on doing this myself moving forward.
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I know one guy weighs the wood before and after stabilizing. And charges so much an oz. For the weight gained . Most maples I have done really gain a lot of weight. Walnut must be very dry and needs to soak for about 3 weeks I always thought it needed to soak until it did not float to be fully penetrated Curtis of TurnTex it has to do with specific gravity of the wood to start with.
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The whole process was kind of fun to play with.... But... It's not very cost effective. I'd rather use G-10 to stiffen things up using walnut, myrtle, and curly maple. Its actually cheaper going that route, and much stronger.
A trick i found to use less juice in a larger chamber is putting ceramic tile in the chamber to take up extra space. Takes half the juice stacking tile on top of your riser block and around it. I also milled the block and cut it to rough shape before stabilizing it. I would put my blocks in my hot box for 24 hours at about 100-120 degrees before dunking it in the juice too....... It was an interesting mad scientist thing for awhile, but i never really felt the love... :biglaugh:
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hmmmm......
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Well sure don't put hot wood in juice cause heat is what cures it. To get it totally dry heat to 200 then cool to room temp in a plastic bag then in the juice
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Marble's
Just don't loose yours :tongue:
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Good idea Max. Guess Roy have to use sumptin else :laughing:
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Yup.....
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Well sure don't put hot wood in juice cause heat is what cures it. To get it totally dry heat to 200 then cool to room temp in a plastic bag then in the juice
Roger that.... I would imagine that would be a mess-stake. :o
Marble's
Just don't loose yours :tongue:
Too late Max.... i already lost mine... But thats a great idea.
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I did knife scales in a Mason Jar and a brake line vacuum pump with marbles . :thumbsup:
Roy still has 1 or 2
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Welp I done it today :bigsmyl: Bought me some nice walnut and hard maple. And theeeeeen 4 gal. of juice and some dye. :o $$$$$
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You don't try and stabilize the hard maple do you? I wouldn't imagine you'd get much penetration.
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Kirk that is what you would think but all maples I have done take enough juice that they no longer float. Walnut needs to be bone dry and soak a long time.
The guy that sells the stuff says that the specific gravity of the wood has to do with how much juice it takes on and just because it still floats don't mean it is not penetrated good.ou just vac it until the bubbles are gone.
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Interesting 🤔
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Kirk that is what you would think but all maples I have done take enough juice that they no longer float. Walnut needs to be bone dry and soak a long time.
The guy that sells the stuff says that the specific gravity of the wood has to do with how much juice it takes on and just because it still floats don't mean it is not penetrated good.ou just vac it until the bubbles are gone.
I was thinking more of the dye penetration of the hard maple, and the color consistency. I could see doing it for color differences. But hard maple really needs no stabilization…. I was just curious…. Kirk
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The color gets all the way thru no problem And you have no srikage problems when gluing composites. I have dyed some with denatured alcohol but it like water got today it back let dry again. Here is another cost.Cleaned my vac. pump today. The last time I bought vac oil was 12 qrt.Now $20
(https://i.imgur.com/U4xRLat.jpg)
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Got some walnut and maple with electric blue going.
(https://i.imgur.com/DiM42cI.jpg)
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Can't wait to see them. JF
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What is cleaning the vac pump ?? Do you suck the oil into it. And how often .
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That pic you see closest to the pump has nothing in it a pump saver. When I first started doing this I got some of the juice in the pump and locked it up. There is a plastic copler that breaks so you don't burn the motor up. Had to take it apart bead blasted it clean and reassemble. Anyhow the empty one catches any overflow before it gets to the pump. The ideal setup is to have about 4 inches above the juice and the bubbles usually won't rise higher than that still have to go slow getting to max vac.
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So what do you do with the oil ??
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I have a pump that was given to me. But I have never used it.
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The oil is in the pump. It has to be changed ever so often.
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Thanks
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Okay I got the electric blue curing. It no longer floated and gained a bunch of weight. Should be able to get pics of it tomorrow.
Gonna let the walnut soak u till the juice says at the same level.
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very cool process
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Electric blue
(https://i.imgur.com/pWB9Yua.jpg)
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WOW 😮👍🏼
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More turquoise than blue me thinks.
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It's still cool 👍🏼
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Show is what it looks like after cutting Limb pads off :thumbsup:
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Max all the maple I have done penetrates all the way thru. There are exceptions where the wood is very dense. A lot of times color gets between the growth rings and looks pretty cool .
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:thumbsup:
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This is a very interesting piece of maple. Some ambrosia and dense spots but the color does get thru it.
(https://i.imgur.com/OkCcm14.jpg)
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curly maple and birdseye can really look good after impregnating .I used the brown dye and doubled the amount recommended , i really got some pretty wood . I didnt make any last year but had the pump going most of the summer in past years. Cactus juice will only make the wood a little stronger than it was before the process You need to have the wood very dry I bought an old oven at a auction sale and that's what I cured the juice with after the vacuum.
I used to send the wood off to a place in PA and they did a great job then to a place in Iowa I only got back part of my wood and it was all done in clear acrylic when I ordered brown I got ripped off. Big Horn bows had all their bows impregnated they must have done it themselves
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I am with you on it makes the wood a little bit stronger. I think some of the others use epoxy for stabilizing. The cactus juice in my opinion does just that stabilize and dye if you choose
(https://i.imgur.com/3wa5jzS.jpg)
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WOW that's gorgeous Mike 🤩
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Thanks. There is two like that both belong to husband and wife.
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Nice stic :thumbsup:
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Stic, that riser is really fine!
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Thanks everyone.
I just need to find some more maple like that.
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Maybe Bell Forest Hardwoods. JF
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Just noticed this, I haven't been hanging around as much as I'd like. I'm just starting to dip my toes into stabilizing for knife scales, and here's what I've come up with (plus putting a better temp controller on a toaster oven). I am hoping the diaphragm pump will get me down far enough to do a decent job. Hope this helps the OP.
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Bah! Don't know why the pic got rotated, it is vertical on the 'puter, any moderators around to straighten me out? Thanks!!
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My curing box is plywood with two 200 watt bulbs and a 195 snap disc from Grainger. And can put a timer on it if wanted.
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Thanks everyone.
I just need to find some more maple like that.
Is that curly or Hard maple?....Looks like curly figuring. That blue dye is kinda cool looking.
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I bought it as hard maple
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Curly and Hard Maple both have the same Janka Hardness 1450 and Specific gravity .72 on Bell forest Products
EDIT I just saw Curly soft maple is .63 and 950 on Bell forest.
So curly Maple, Curly soft Maple and Hard Maple :dunno:
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I really like African Blackwood but hard to find and big $ now days.
I wonder how BLACK you could get it in the Vacuum chamber Stic.?????????
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Is it oily?
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I found out the blackwood is oily so would likely not take on juice and probably contaminate it
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Sorry
Maple
I wonder how BLACK you could get it in the Vacuum chamber Stic.?????????
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This one is 4 oz. in a gallon (max recommended) The really dense part may not take color. Soft may be different.
(https://i.imgur.com/3sXmH7C.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YdYpLd4.jpg)
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:thumbsup:
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Using black dye in the chamber the wood will come out gray .
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If you dont use enough dye charcoal of gray would be correct. If you dry it per instructions and vac to no or very little bubbles and soak at least twice as long as you kept the pump running. the parts not too dense will be black.
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Could always add more dye after it's finished too. :thumbsup:
African Black is a DARK brown but looks almost Black
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Might try smearing some dye before any sealer and see what happens.
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Pretty good looks like color got thru
(https://i.imgur.com/HqBZgvL.jpg)
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Yep :thumbsup:
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One chunk of walnut. And some quarter sawen Sycamore curing With black dye. Will get it cleaned up next week very interesting looking how the soft parts got totally black.
(https://i.imgur.com/kvvgJUJ.jpg)
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Black sycamore.
(https://i.imgur.com/2CLLHwf.jpg)