Post by: Beck955 on January 31, 2023, 08:26:25 PM
I imagine the modern laminated long bow casts and arrow farther/faster but I wonder what the difference in feet per second might be for a bow in the 50 pound range with a 500 grain arrow.
Some fall off in speed is fine. Is the difference very noticeable? Are there aspects of the self bow that it excels at??
Post by: bucknut on January 31, 2023, 09:12:31 PM
Post by: mmattockx on January 31, 2023, 09:40:53 PM
Basically, wood bows get nearly all the performance available from an inferior material while FG bows only get maybe 50% of the performance available from a superior material. The end result is FG is not nearly as far ahead of wood as it should be given the differences in the material properties.
Mark
Post by: Jeff Freeman on February 01, 2023, 10:15:27 AM
Post by: Crooked Stic on February 01, 2023, 05:29:34 PM
Post by: Kirkll on February 01, 2023, 08:36:31 PM
Then try a few tri-lam all wood bows. That will introduce to to the art of tillering and learning about grain run off. But be warned… the all wood bows are very easily turned to kindling.
There are some good self bowyers in here that could help you though an Osage or Yew stave self bow I’m sure too. I’m not one of them.
Comparing the finished products and durability of FG bows vs All wood bows is a much bigger thing than comparing performance. I’ve seen some seriously fast all wood bows………Unfortunately humidity and temperature effect all wood bows a lot more than FG backed bows, and they need to be cared for accordingly, and stored unstrung indoors. They are not know for longevity with out special care.
Self bows are cool, but they can be heart breakers too. Kirk
Post by: Beck955 on February 01, 2023, 09:39:18 PM
... similar performance - differences in longevity/durability.
OK, I own a lovely HOLM MADE (no typo - Chad Holm, boyer) wood/glass longbow. Love that thing. I'd like to work with glass/wood/lam but all the bows of that type seem to be made from a complex form that boyers put a lot of time into because they plan on making hundreds of bows from it, fire hose for pressure etc. Is there a common way to make a glass/wood lam bow, one off WITHOUT crafting a seriously engineered heavy wood form??
Post by: Buggs on February 02, 2023, 09:48:26 AM
Post by: Jeff Freeman on February 02, 2023, 10:56:03 AM
Post by: mmattockx on February 02, 2023, 11:44:15 AM
I'd like to work with glass/wood/lam but all the bows of that type seem to be made from a complex form that boyers put a lot of time into because they plan on making hundreds of bows from it, fire hose for pressure etc. Is there a common way to make a glass/wood lam bow, one off WITHOUT crafting a seriously engineered heavy wood form??
As Jeff notes, you can make a flat bow like the Howard Hill style on a simple flat, straight form. It won't perform like a more reflexed design, but it will certainly result in a functional traditional style long bow in the end. If you want curves then you are pretty much left with using at minimum a bottom form and clamps of some sort. Since you mention making bows for friends as well, I would suggest that a form isn't so much work if you are amortizing that over even just a few bows. You could even get some of those friends to help with the form and end up with a bow making group project.
One thing not yet mentioned is buying a kit. KennyM here makes excellent kits with drawings for the forms and offers excellent pricing and support. That way you get a proven design that you know will result in a good performing bow and all the materials you will need to get it done.
https://www.kennysarchery.com/
Mark
Post by: Longcruise on February 02, 2023, 02:01:51 PM
Then get back to us on what to do next? 😀
Post by: Kirkll on February 04, 2023, 06:14:30 PM
Longcruise’s suggestion is a simple way to do a form system with not a lot of time invested. There are still a lot of guys using inner tube and wood dowel clamping systems. You could even incorporate some zip ties into that system to hold things in place while you stretch your tubing….
Even a hot box isn’t really necessary with EA-40. But you should be curing the bow for 24 hours in above 60 degrees for it to cure properly before trying to get a string on it.
If you get serious about this…. You can get lots of help here. Kirk
Post by: Beck955 on February 06, 2023, 11:43:59 AM
Post by: Mad Max on February 07, 2023, 08:49:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bycbMZn.jpg)
Post by: Beck955 on February 07, 2023, 09:30:52 AM
Post by: Pat B on February 07, 2023, 09:59:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/qdSiAZW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qOKcFjC.jpg)
BTW, my form is a 2x4 as the base with small blocks of 2x4 to raise the tips into reflex. If you want a straight, not reflexed bow clamp the glue up to the 2x4 after wrapping it with the bands. This will generally give you a straight or slightly deflexed glue up.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 07, 2023, 10:07:05 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8EvGPxXyq8
Post by: Mad Max on February 07, 2023, 05:22:52 PM
That picture says a lot! is that the riser glued up/clamped in the foreground??
I used EA-40 epoxy on this one, I pretty sure I had more clamps
(https://i.imgur.com/Na2dhty.jpg)
I got the idea from Roy
BBI (bamboo backed Ipe)
Dry run with the riser stack
(https://i.imgur.com/yxMIe5g.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rgMlucn.jpg)
Always nice Roy :thumbsup:
Post by: Mad Max on February 07, 2023, 05:27:05 PM
:bigsmyl:
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 07, 2023, 06:05:53 PM
Bob
If you use C clamps, be sure to pad the back and belly with thin wood to protect the bow wood from clamp damage.
Post by: Mo_coon-catcher on February 15, 2023, 09:31:10 AM
But for a good baseline number, I’ve seen a lot of average selfbows shoot around 150 fps.
Does all that make any sense?
Kyle
Post by: Beck955 on February 15, 2023, 07:54:21 PM