Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: derekdiruz on June 22, 2023, 08:38:59 PM
-
Pics I did the best I could, but can anyone possibly identify what’s happening here?
Limbs are clear bearpaw glass belly and back over these veneers. On the belly of the top I’m getting these odd grey marks under the glass. They have slowly appeared more as I’ve shot the limbs. Is this limb delaminating?
-
Better pic
-
Not sure , only looked at these on my fone.
Curious, did you wipe stuff with acetone?
-
I did wipe with acetone prior to glue up, yes. Thanks Kenny.
-
I can't tell much on computer pic either, sorry. It doesn't look good to me tho.
If mine I'd shoot it til it gets worse and hang it up.
I blew one up doing that and that isn't fun!
Acetone is used to remove CA and will take nail polish off so I don't ever wipe stuff with it. I know lots of folks do...
-
I don’t wipe anything anymore unless it visually has something on it. When I get it from Kenny I try to keep it in a clean area sealed up. When I use it I hit it with a stiff bristled scrub brush and vacuum it off with the bristle attachment. Always been afraid of leaving material from the rag behind under clear glass and regretting it later.
-
This happens quite often with clear glass over dark veneers. Not so much with light colors.... Well its happening , but you cant see it as well.....gordons glass does it too... sometimes you'll see tiny stress cracks as well as cloudy spots, or streaks. Its purely cosmetic, and nothing you can do about it...
I do not warranty clear glass "To be clear" . there is no control for it... Some come out good and never have an issue. others it takes a year or two to develop. and some come out of the form with streaks.... Nature of the beast.... Kirk
-
Thanks Kirk. That was my suspicion is that I’ve just used such a dark veneer that it’s showing easily. I’ve looked very very closely and can’t see signs of delaminating other than the cloudiness. So that’s where my thoughts led. Appreciate the feedback fellas.
-
Thanks Kirk. That was my suspicion is that I’ve just used such a dark veneer that it’s showing easily. I’ve looked very very closely and can’t see signs of delaminating other than the cloudiness. So that’s where my thoughts led. Appreciate the feedback fellas.
No worries bro.... I've done a bunch of black walnut limbs over the years, and some have been real heart breakers seeing every imperfection in the glass. But others came out perfectly clear, and stayed that way for years... Never know.... So i just give all my customers a heads up when asking for clear glass over dark veneers, that you get what you get on this clear glass. No do overs... Kirk
-
I always wipe my composites with acetone but NOT any wood. And yeah looks like streaky glass to me.
-
I always wipe my composites with acetone but NOT any wood. And yeah looks like streaky glass to me.
2 x … the acetone removes any oils that can be transferred to glass or carbon composites just by handling them. Good insurance. Kirk
-
Crooked Stic and Kirk, I think I can figure out why but could you clarify why you would wipe other materials but not the wood. Porous and off gassing?
-
The glass is not porous and the acetone evaporates off. The wood being porous acetone will soak in it. And most times just legs more oil wick out. Acetone and glue don't mix for better adhesion. So don't change it. If you think your oily or any other wood for that matter did not glue good chances are it was still a bit green.
-
The glass is not porous and the acetone evaporates off. The wood being porous acetone will soak in it. And most times just legs more oil wick out. Acetone and glue don't mix for better adhesion. So don't change it. If you think your oily or any other wood for that matter did not glue good chances are it was still a bit green.
2X on Stic's post.... You will hear about guys using acetone on Teak, or Bocote, or other oily woods now and then, but you wont ever here it from the pros... Best bet is to freshly sand oily wood and glue it up the same day, and never use solvents on wood. Checking MC levels on riser wood is good to do, as well as freshly ripped lams. You are usually safe with anything less than 12% MC , but 9-10% is prefered. especially building in a high humidity climate and shipping to a dry one.... All my wood stays at 12% in winter in the shop and typically drops to 10% in the summer. in Oregon. I do not have a climate controlled storage room.
What i do is build my risers ahead of time and put them in my spray booth that i keep heated in winter. Keeps them from soaking up moisture. I store my lams in stacks of 20 and freshly grind each lay up as i build the bows. .02 cents
-
Wash everything in acetone wood and glass it doesnt bring up the oil it washes it off bringing up the oil is something Adcock said once everybody believed him instead doing their own experiments . Use a clean cotton cloth like old bed sheets you will see on the rag what you thought was clean is not . Ive said this before the difference between using acetone and not using it is the difference between a clean glue up and a dirty one .
-
Wash everything in acetone wood and glass it doesnt bring up the oil it washes it off bringing up the oil is something Adcock said once everybody believed him instead doing their own experiments . Use a clean cotton cloth like old bed sheets you will see on the rag what you thought was clean is not . Ive said this before the difference between using acetone and not using it is the difference between a clean glue up and a dirty one .
Well good luck with that theory. I think you will find you are in a very low percentage of bowyers that think this way. I don't care how many times you say it..... It's an opinion not based on fact. I've been doing "Dirty" layups for many years i guess. :biglaugh:
-
Cocobolo, 2nd one from the left (Orange color) I wiped this one about 10 times with acetone and it still colors the rag.
(https://i.imgur.com/22cC7um.jpg)
-
Mad Max sweet veneers dude! What types of wood are you working with there and how oily are they?
-
These are Cocobolo and Bocote ---same as the other picture
Bocote want's fresh sand paper or it will gum up the paper, I use 60 grit
Cocobolo is not so bad on sand paper.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZA1JX99.jpg)
-
Cocobolo, 2nd one from the left (Orange color) I wiped this one about 10 times with acetone and it still colors the rag.
(https://i.imgur.com/22cC7um.jpg)
Yup... and every time you wipe it will still has a thin layer of oil coming up.... Just grind it and glue it bro.
-
Very nice looking spliced veneers ... :clapper: :clapper:
-
Thanks kirk
I was just trying to get the Orange off so I would have a matching set.
-
Thanks kirk
I was just trying to get the Orange off so I would have a matching set.
Had to wipe them all in one direction I’d bet… nice looking combo Bocote and coco.
Its too bad the cocobolo is so hard to come by any more. Even finding nice looking Bocote is getting tough to find. I used to stock the stuff years ago. Now I can’t find it when I want it, and if I do, they want a bloody fortune for it. :dunno: :dunno:
-
Maybe a little bit scarce on glue, or to much pressure when gluing up?On my oily laminations. I only use denatured alcohol. Never acetone. Haven't had a problem using denatured. JF
-
Thanks kirk
I was just trying to get the Orange off so I would have a matching set.
Had to wipe them all in one direction I’d bet… nice looking combo Bocote and coco.
Its too bad the cocobolo is so hard to come by any more. Even finding nice looking Bocote is getting tough to find. I used to stock the stuff years ago. Now I can’t find it when I want it, and if I do, they want a bloody fortune for it. :dunno: :dunno:
Just on that 1 orange one Kirk, did not wipe the others :thumbsup:
-
Coco bolo gets lighter and lighter as you washed it it takes the oil off , your rag will never be clean but it will notice cleaner and cleaner if you keep changing rags . Ive made hundreds of bows with coco and washed them all none came apart . I wouldnt use coco under clear glass if you are having trouble with streaks in the clear glass.
Id be scared of a bow that was not cleaned before glue up .
-
Coco bolo gets lighter and lighter as you washed it it takes the oil off , your rag will never be clean but it will notice cleaner and cleaner if you keep changing rags . Ive made hundreds of bows with coco and washed them all none came apart . I wouldnt use coco under clear glass if you are having trouble with streaks in the clear glass.
Id be scared of a bow that was not cleaned before glue up .
You have a photo gallery of your bows Tim? Love to see some of your finished product on these “clean” bows….. Kirk
-
I made bows from 2003 - 2023, 17 of those years professionally, and if I can pick one thing bad about my whole experience, it was clear fiberglass.
-
I made bows from 2003 - 2023, 17 of those years professionally, and if I can pick one thing bad about my whole experience, it was clear fiberglass.
Amen brother... Amen... I'll bet i have had 30 sets of black walnut limbs under so called clear glass over the years that i ended up doing a camo paint job or sprayed them black so i could use them.
I had a couple bows many years ago that i had to do 3 different lay ups to get nice looking product. That was when i decided not to warranty or guarantee glass clarity at all, and started warning guys that insisted on dark veneers under glass that it is, what it is. Kirk
-
Well, to do or not to do. Both ways seem to work, perhaps it shows that modern glues are very strong. I once read a book on gluing up wood and other materials, written by a Swedish expert on these matters. He said that if you look at a freshly planed board of wood it feels and looks very smooth. But looking at the same board magnified many times it looks like « mountain tops and valleys» If there is a finger print or other grease on that board, the least suitable you can do is wipe it with a rag and solvent. All you will achieve is scooping the grease into the valleys and thinning it on the mountain tops. :dunno: I have done both ways without problems.