Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: buckeye_hunter on May 16, 2008, 12:47:00 PM
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I was watching some olympic shooting and the majority of shooters were using Hoyt recurves.
I was wondering what Hoyt has done with their recurves to get such a good reputation internationally and to be used in the olympics. I seldom hear about them on here.
I know they produce the Game Master, but I just don't hear many people talking about them. Is it quietly one of the better recurves out there?
Just curious if you guys have any input.
Thanks,
Charlie
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The Gamemaster is a good shooting bow...most of the metal-riser bows are.
I suspect the way it looks keeps some folks from being interested in it. I had one and although it was a good shooter I shoot my Bob Lee take-downs better.
I would like to try the new bow that Hoyt is making called the Dorado. It doesn't have the crossbar "thing" going form the top-to-bottom of the riser.
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The bows you are talking about are ILF target bows.There many different brands Hoyt included used as such.
Any ILF target bow could be used for hunting with proper camo and if length wasn't an issue.There are some shorter risers being produced now that has led to more interest in ILF limbs and hunting length risers.
They are all just bows to me, but there are other sites more dedicated to metal risers and target bows.
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like rh said. there are many brands....one good thing about the hoyt gamemaster and dorado is you can buy a fitting to use any ilf limb. this allows a ton of options....which i'm sure mr.clark knows all too well:) and all i can say is that my hoyt recurves shoot great and the cross bar doesnt really bother me.
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There Dorado recurve is new for this year, sales have been brisk! :)more like a real recurve , a welcome from that gosh awful Gamemaster!
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Shot a Hoyt Helix with the "old" G3 carbon limbs. Sans stab and sights though, Superthin 70m target arrows probly 200grs! Damn good bow to put it carefully.
Anyone know if one can put ILFs on the Dalaa?
K
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KrEn
ILF's are what the Dalaa uses.They have just had the ILF bushing replaced with a threaded bushing.The 21" Dalaa can be had with either ILF or DAS attachment system.
You can buy the replacement bushings from the DAS site for $16.There are also instructions there on how to press out the ILF bushings and press in the DAS bushings.
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yeah and now you can get ilf longbow limbs....so you got even more options.
btw bayou-why do you think the gamemaster is a bad recurve. i know they usually pull heavier than listed but mine really shoot well. even got another guy to go buy one just from spending the evening shooting one of mine. but i also like the dorado it does look more "trad" than the tec riser. but the tec riser was built to be a very rugged and stable riser, that has really grown on me.
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Originally posted by bailebr3:
yeah and now you can get ilf longbow limbs....so you got even more options.
btw bayou-why do you think the gamemaster is a bad recurve. i know they usually pull heavier than listed but mine really shoot well. even got another guy to go buy one just from spending the evening shooting one of mine. but i also like the dorado it does look more "trad" than the tec riser. but the tec riser was built to be a very rugged and stable riser, that has really grown on me.
I'm with ya. :thumbsup:
I have'nt shot as many bows as some, but of the ones i have, my GM II still wins me over.
I think it looks terrific. jmho :archer:
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yeah it seems some like them and others dont....the funny thing is my draw length is 26" and since the gamemasters are usually heavier at 28" than listed.....well wouldnt you know my 50#(labeled) is actually 52# at my draw and the 45#(labeled) is 46#at my draw so to me they fit perfect:)
BTW-i am still in love with my old '74 bear k mag though...just something about it
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Gotta' love those old k-mags! A k-mag is what switched me over to recurves. I'm still eyeing an A&H ACS though.
It would be easier if I could just own one of everything, then I could stop looking! Don't know where I would get the money though.
Thanks for the info guys.
-Charlie
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I'm one of those longbow hunting guys who considers my 3pc Bob Lee Signature recurve w/ its cut past center shelf, pistol grip, and CNC fit limbs to be in the same category as a compound bow. When I look at a CNC machined Olympic style recurve w/ the plethora of precision fit add hock components, I think of it as "Archery-In-A-Box" along the lines of an erector set. At some point, these precision marvels crossed the line from being a bow to becoming a machine. I do find character and life in a good handling hunting stickbow, this is absent in a machine bow.
Daddy Bear
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I just took a quantum leap from my straight-limbed longbows and got a new Hoyt Dorado, and I'm blown away. Its one helluva shooter; quiet, fast, and a point-and-hit bow... I simply love this thing.
With that said, I can see what Daddy Bear is saying. I do miss the warm feel of wood and leather, and everything that goes hand in hand with it. A machined riser just doesn't have it. Does that make it a compound? Not by a long shot.
For right now, the Hoyt is the way to go for me. Its not a purist's stickbow, but that doesn't bother me in the least. Does it make me less of a traditional bow hunter? Maybe to some, but again, that doesnt bother me in the least.
To each his own...
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Daddy Bear
Shoot whatever you like and,"PLEASE",let everyone else shoot whatever makes them happy.
You will make a lot more friends if you don't go around telling folks they might as well shoot a compound.
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i wouldnt call them machine bows. yes they do have all the holes for sights,rest,stabilizer etc..but you can choose to shoot them just like any other barebow....thats what i do w/ all of my bows. i shoot no sights and off the shelf. and just b/c my bows have a metal riser doesnt make them machines or " ARCHERY IN A BOX. there are no wheels or mechanical devices used and i still find character and joy watching the flight of my arrows to the target..knowing that i can shoot that well with a bow with no sights or mechanical release...thats what it is all about
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I'm one of those longbow hunting guys who considers my 3pc Bob Lee Signature recurve w/ its cut past center shelf, pistol grip, and CNC fit limbs to be in the same category as a compound bow. When I look at a CNC machined Olympic style recurve w/ the plethora of precision fit add hock components, I think of it as "Archery-In-A-Box" along the lines of an erector set. At some point, these precision marvels crossed the line from being a bow to becoming a machine. I do find character and life in a good handling hunting stickbow, this is absent in a machine bow.
Daddy Bear
Wow, that is a bit extreme IMHO. A recurve, whether wood or metal in the same category as a compound bow? These 'machine bows' you speak of used in the Olympics are not much different than any other traditional bow. Wood, glass, carbon, etc. are all used in the construction of ILF limbs as well as the 'stickbows'. I'm sorry, but if there aren't wheels it's not a compound 'machine'.
As to 'Archery in a box', that is a huge stretch to make. The shooter makes the shot, not the equipment. The skills one needs to accurately shoot an Olympic bow are no different than those required to shoot a Howard Hill longbow.
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back to the gamemaster...the only thing that I didn't like about the one that I had was that the grip rubbed a blister on the top of my thumb. After an extended shooting session or a day of 3d it was painful.
Other than that it was dead on the shot, good speed and with a mtn. mufflerstrig and DAS limb pads was a very quiet bow.
the riser and limbs were painted flat black and I thought it was a cool looking bow. I would like to get one of the newer models that have the replacement grip options.
I do like the looks of the Dorado
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"...I just don't hear many people talking about them." "Just curious if you guys have any input." -buckeye_hunter
I was just giving my input as to why I'm not attracted to this style of bow for my prefered style of archery hunting. It has no bearing on the personal preferences of others. Some may prefer a compound, some may prefer a spear.
Where in the world did you pull the "might as well shoot a compound" statement from? I keep my Bob Lee as a starter bow to introduce compound shooters to shooting recurves. It is so easy to shoot well that I call it "my compound". But, I prefer selfbows and longbows for hunting. If given the choice between rifle and bow, I prefer bow. If given choice between recurve and longbow, I prefer longbow. I only offered my input as to why I make those choices while distancing myself from this Olympic style bow. Your satisfaction with your archery is based on your choices, not mine. I'm not insulting your personal preference no more than your choice insults those who choose a rifle.
Daddy Bear
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Easy fellas!
I appreciate all input and opinions. As always, lets just promote archery(regardless of bow choice) and let the antis try to seperate us and not do it to ourselves!!!
This is simply about what Hoyt is doing and why their bows are used so extensively in the olympics.
Heck, PSE makes a recurve with a machined riser as well, but I haven't seen many of them in olympic competition.
What is the real or percieved advantage Hoyt has created?
Again, thanks for all input.
-Charlie
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Daddy Bear
The whole problem with these forums is that we can't hear the tone of each other's comments.
I'm sorry If I took yours the wrong way.I really should not have singled you out as one of the group I was speaking to.I guess I've been defending metal risers too long and have heard the "might as well shoot a compound" too many times.I know that is not what you said.I just ASSUMED that was your attitude and I'm sorry for that.
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All is good:)
I've hunted w/ longbows and selfbows for over 34years, but I'm brand new to these internet archery forums. I'm unfamiliar w/ all the running gun battles that may have taken place over archery tackle and styles. I'm trying to better develop my egg shell walking skills on some of these topics as there appears to be a sleeping beast that is easily awakened. Maybe I misunderstood the original post as I took it to be reference the lack of hoopla on these Hoyt bows outside the circles of Olympic style target archery, especially on forums that may lean more towards hunting w/ traditional archery tackle. That was the angle I came from.
Me personally, I always get more out of archery hunting the simpler my tackle and the more involved I get in making my tackle. I think this is why you'll see more hoopla over home build trad archery projects and unique one of a kind tackle vs cookie cutter CNC precision tackle amongst those who like to hunt w/ longbows.
I'm sure my osage hunting selfbow I made from a felled tree would be a big flop in some Olympic archery circles.
later,
Daddy Bear
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Daddy Bear
I like selfbows and olympic target bows.I think there are a lot of folks that feel the same way.I can get just as excited over a really nice stave as a top end set of ILF limbs.
Back to the subject though.I think that Hoyt is one of the biggest and oldest producers of target bows which is why you see so many of them in these events.I don't know that they are any better or worse than any others.I do know Hoyt has hade some problems with customer service recently.Some folks have not been able to get limbs,parts, risers or whatever in a timely fashion.
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Buckeye,
I believe the reason that you see Hoyt so prevalently in the Olympic circuit is from a couple of things. Hoyt was one of the first companies to design recurves of that particular style and most other target bows are adapted from Hoyts designs. Hoyt has always been good at getting their bows into the hands of top shooters as well, through sponsorships and the like. Overseas target archery is much bigger than here in the US and Hoyt pushes hard in that area. In fact, I've often heard it is easier and faster to get a Hoyt Oly style bow in Europe than here.
In regards to the Gamemaster I've owned several of them. I've shot them setup stock, with various ILF limbs, off the shelf, and decked out. It is extremely versatile and a very accurate shooting bow.
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I ordered a new Dorado Black Riser and 40#. They said I could get 62" limbs when I called the factory. I shot one and it was smooth and a 1916 realy zips a arrow. This type of bow has many options for one type of bow. Now if they just made longbow limbs for it from Hoyt.
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you can get longbow limbs for it thru lancaster archery or tradtech. the bushing you get is 16 bucks and the limbs are going for $180(i believe).....not trying to advertise here. i saw a set on a guys gamemaster on another site. the bow was 66" overall and around 60#. pretty cool lookin to boot:)
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Have shot Hoyt's since 1975. They have always made bows of good quality recurves or compounds. I think over the years they have proven to be a huge name in the archery world. I'm shooting the GameMaster and the Dorado now and enjoy both of these bows both 3-d and hunting. It seems alot of shooters buy new bows and don't keep them long enough to learn how to shoot the bow. I think it takes time and alot of shooting to learn your bow.For the price you can't go wrong with the Hoyt traditional bows.
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I own a GM and really like it. The grip fits my shooting style (I must be an alien from the looks of it) as I usually prefer very thin grips. Certainly not as pretty as my longbows or other recurves, but it got the job done this fall with no problems. It doesn't look as tradition as some bows, but it's certainly there in spirit.
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When Earl had the Hoyt co. he promoted the Olympic style of archery more then hunting and a large part of his business was over the big eastern pond. I would guess that 75% of his sales were over seas. The company that produces them now followed through with this practices.
Charlie Lamb could talk more on this.
I was Earl's Destruction engineer. If I couln't break it it was good to go. Earl had my brother and I dry fire one of his bows 175 times by hand @ 30" Never did hurt it.
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More and more archers are now using korean made bows in Olympic style archery nowadays,World up,World Championships and the Olympic results would show this.Hoyt has been having breakage issues in the last couple of years,funny thing is the two Hoyt limbs I bought used in '91 are still with me and still going strong and I can still use them on my FITA bow or my warfed hoyt td3 handle(check out my lone warf thread http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=068002) which was "the" Olympic bow of the 70's.
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Least you think FITA bows are just another pretty face, they ain't. they can hunt for a living too :)
http://sites.google.com/site/stringwalkerbowhunter/gobow
rusty
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btw ya got your arrowmaster quiver on one side, ya got your w&w NX Xtra on the other. Can ya guess what those white things inbetween them are for? :)
rusty
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Rusty we both know if it can fling an arrow with authority it can kill something so long as the operator does their part. The rest is just a style choice :biglaugh:
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Vermon - too true. speaking of rest. I really like a spring rest on the fita risers for hunting. the 3/32" heat shrink tube will just shrink down to cover the spring. ya can take it part way around the first curve of the spring. makes it quiet. in a pinche i have warped the spring with plumbs tape to get a quiet draw from the springy rest.
rusty
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Rusty,
Are those white things for praying? :knothead: :pray: They are kneepads ,right?Do you use them for stalking on your knees?Funny you mention the spring rest, my warf had a small cushion plunger and a spigarelli rest but I replaced it with pads,the rest had a funny sound when shot with aluminum arrows,but i just like shooting barebow off the shelf. Is that a G3 with your NX?
Gil
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I bought a Game Master 3 years ago and love it. The pic on my handle shows my game master with the bear I shot. Yes it has all the plumbing to put whatever you want on it; sights, quivers, counter weights, different rests, etc. but I like it the way it came.
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i have the gamemaster and it's a very good bow. i shoot it very often.
i feel the mounting system could be better for the limbs, though. maybe like the lee or palmer take downs. i think that would aid in quieting the bow considerably.
overall, the bow does provide a good platform for almost any application an archer/bowhunter chooses.
i personally prefer to shoot off the shelf with it...works fine.
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Meaning this in a friendly way it's "ad hoc" not "add hock", latin class over, back to archery!!
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A lot of the US and European archers seem to prefer Hoyt's but the Koreans shoot Samick or Win & Win and we know who's doing the winning.
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I just like pretty woods.
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i have a gamemaster2 and i love the way it shoots. i have shot widows and even a DAS but i just cant get use to anything but the hoyt.....plus they seem to be bullet proof:)
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gil - yes so true. Knee pads for staking pigs. I think a little pray before I shoot certainly would not hunt :) .
Thees Hoyt limbs are actually Epic wood/glass 44# shorts. they turn good speed and I like there feel and their enexpensive price to bang aournd in the jeep.
rusty