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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Susquehannariverarcher on February 01, 2024, 09:06:17 AM
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My first bow is starting to look like a bow (thanks to you guys). I've learned a few things I need to work on for the next one. But right now I'm looking for tips on getting the limb tapers lined up with each other better.
My bandsaw wandered quite a bit and then I've been working it down on my oscillating belt sander. A larger belt sander would be nice but not in the cards right now. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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Sandpaper on a long flat board will help. It just takes longer.
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I'll give that a try tonight
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What exactly are you sanding there?
I’m having a though time understanding what you mean by getting your tapers lined up with each other. :dunno: :dunno:
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Sorry Kirk still working on the lingo. But I started my taper 12" from center and tapered the limbs off to the tips. I rough cut it on the band saw. In hindsight I cut it too close to my line. Then sanded the limbs down on my sander.
Basically I'm looking for any suggestions on doing this better. By lining up I mean a nice even taper on each side. Mine are slightly wavy and kinda look like crap.
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Have you got a tablesaw? If so you can use a 7 1/4 concrete blade to trim close to the line then sand to the line with edge sander or long block, also you can dedicate a regular tablesw blade for sawing glass won't be much good for anything else.
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No table saw yet. I'll keep that in mind for the future. Do you just free hand it or do you use some kind of jig to have a perfect angle every time?
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Sorry Kirk still working on the lingo. But I started my taper 12" from center and tapered the limbs off to the tips. I rough cut it on the band saw. In hindsight I cut it too close to my line. Then sanded the limbs down on my sander.
Basically I'm looking for any suggestions on doing this better. By lining up I mean a nice even taper on each side. Mine are slightly wavy and kinda look like crap.
So you are building an all wood laminated bow here? or self bow? I'm still not understanding what you are doing here, and it's hard to make suggestions until we have that established...
How much wood working experience do you have? Kirk
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So you are building an all wood laminated bow here? or self bow? I'm still not understanding what you are doing here, and it's hard to make suggestions until we have that established...
How much wood working experience do you have? Kirk
It's a fiberglass backed bow. And I'm asking about tapering the limbs down so they are narrower at the tip end.
And I have a decent bit of woodworking experience. But I'll admit I'm very rusty.
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Finished Width of the bow limbs Kirk
You could make a thin template (1/16" to 1/8") and take your time making it as prefect as possible, put some wide masking tape on the bow limbs and spring clamp the template to the limbs and trace around it. belt sander to close to the line, finish like rawhide said.
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Yep that's what I meant. Thanks Max. Sounds like I'm on the right track. Thanks for the information.
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On a short belt sander you really have to watch the line on both ends to keep from over sanding in 1 spot, most of us have long sanders to sand the whole side at 1 time. much better
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When you make that template be sure to mark center first. Then center mark your limb. I drilled small holes on the center line in the template then line the center thru the holes before marking.
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On a short belt sander you really have to watch the line on both ends to keep from over sanding in 1 spot, most of us have long sanders to sand the whole side at 1 time. much better
Yep that's the issue I was running into. I think on the next one. I'll keep it back a little further from the line and then finish by hand. Seems like it will talk longer but save me in the long run.
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When you make that template be sure to mark center first. Then center mark your limb. I drilled small holes on the center line in the template then line the center thru the holes before marking.
Ok that's good to know. Right now I just marked my tips 5/16 off center. And used a ruler to mark the taper.
You guys are all awesome. Hopefully I'll be posting a finished bow this weekend!
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Pretty sure you will get better results with a template
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Pretty sure you will get better results with a template
I bet. I'll try that on my next one.
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OK..... Terminology got me there... When we are talking about taper, it's typically the thickness of the limbs and rated in thousandths of an inch... .002 forward taper, .003 or .001 FT for example.
Shaping a width profile can be as complex or easy as you want to make it.... A lot of guys use masking tape to lay out dead center of the limb and then use a straight edge to lay out the limbs width. The problem i always found doing that was the tape fuzzes up when you are sanding to the lines and you loose your line altogether when ya get close using a sander.
What i found to be the best solution is making limb width patterns from formica, and drill a 1/4" hole dead center where my tip notches are located. then after getting a center line on the limbs i clamp the pattern on the limb and use spray paint to get an exact pattern on the limbs.
I use a big edge sander to shape the edges down to size, and always leave a 16th of an inch of the paint line on the glass. this leaves me a wee bit extra limb width at the tip, so when i put my temp string notches in the limbs and check the draw weight, i can also deepen one side or the other for limb alignment issues that may occur.
Whether you use a palm sander, an edge sander, or do it by hand with a long block. you need long smooth strokes to fair it in. Then after it looks good, close your eyes and run your fingers down the edge. Often times you can feel things you can't see, or don't notice... .02 cents worth.
Here are a few photos of my system. Hope this helps.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/KxQCbbQovLvFAePt9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YKDN29wyr6SC4S2j7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/kwuYZBXf8eZfm7FW6
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Thanks Kirk. And yeah that's this issue I was running into. The tape was getting all gummed up and frayed making it a pain to follow the line. I'm gonna try the template next time. Looks like yours are full length, I'm guessing that's more accurate.
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I'm looking to make a permanent formica template to ease the process, but as for what I have been doing; I mark center like described and use a flexible straight edge clamped to the limbs to set the limb profile. Instead of marking with a pencil I use a razor and when I'm done marking each limb I pull the tape and it give me a super clear indication of where to sand. If the tape starts to curl you're going past your line. Everything without tape sands away just fine.
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I use tape and a straight edge. But i use a sharp blade and cut the tape to mark it. Then pull off the tape on the edge.. it stops the fuzz and you can see the limb shape .
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Thanks Kirk. And yeah that's this issue I was running into. The tape was getting all gummed up and frayed making it a pain to follow the line. I'm gonna try the template next time. Looks like yours are full length, I'm guessing that's more accurate.
use 120 grit to un curl the tape, 45 degrees to the corner, this will cut the tape on the corners so you can see the lines. you have to keep doing this :thumbsup:
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Great idea Max. Simple but very effective. Might have to try that on the next one.
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Great idea Max. Simple but very effective. Might have to try that on the next one.
:thumbsup: :bigsmyl:
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I use tape and a straight edge. But i mark it with a sharp blade. Then I take the tape off the side of the limb.
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The cool part about painting your outline from a template rather than using tape and a knife or razor to cut it, is that if you want to leave those limbs a little wide for extra draw weight or stability, the paint sands off easier than a etched line with a knife..... It's a hell of a lot faster, and saves a lot of masking tape too. food for thought. Kirk
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I am going to try that Kirk
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The cool part about painting your outline from a template rather than using tape and a knife or razor to cut it, is that if you want to leave those limbs a little wide for extra draw weight or stability, the paint sands off easier than a etched line with a knife..... It's a hell of a lot faster, and saves a lot of masking tape too. food for thought. Kirk
Good point. Lots of ideas for me to try on future bows.
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Thanks Kirk. And yeah that's this issue I was running into. The tape was getting all gummed up and frayed making it a pain to follow the line. I'm gonna try the template next time. Looks like yours are full length, I'm guessing that's more accurate.
Here is a short film clip on how I profile my limbs. Takes about 5 minutes for both limbs.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/uuuiz3hMJi649Mob8
I did this clip this afternoon. I have my rough draw weight measured, tip overlays laid up, and will balance the limbs tomorrow. I came in about 2.65 # over my draw weight, and the tiller about 1/8 positive… couldn't ask for better. Kirk
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Thanks Kirk. And yeah that's this issue I was running into. The tape was getting all gummed up and frayed making it a pain to follow the line. I'm gonna try the template next time. Looks like yours are full length, I'm guessing that's more accurate.
Here is a short film clip on how I profile my limbs. Takes about 5 minutes for both limbs.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/uuuiz3hMJi649Mob8
I did this clip this afternoon. I have my rough draw weight measured, tip overlays laid up, and will balance the limbs tomorrow. I came in about 2.65 # over my draw weight, and the tiller about 1/8 positive… couldn't ask for better. Kirk
That's awesome. Thank you. I'm going to try that.
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I actually strung the bow up last night. As you can see it's the top limb is much weaker. I did a pretty bad job profiling the limbs. After messaging someone on here. The plan is to retape, mark center line, measure distance off center on top limb, attempt to profile bottom limb (using above techniques) to same dimensions as top limb, and see where that leaves me.
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Now THAT …. Is a reflex / deflex bow… :biglaugh:
Let me ask you something…. Do those limbs flip over when grabbing the string and raising and lowering it?
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Yeah new cutting edge design never seen before. And I'm not sure I didn't really pull on it. Just laughed at myself. I had a feeling the top limb was going to be weaker but wasn't expecting that!
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You did not get you taper mixed up----
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The shape of your limb coming out of the form has a huge impact on vertical stability in different draw weights. when you get too much of an elliptical shape to the limb shape with more deflex sweep to it, it increases the energy storage capasity dramatically, and requires much less thickness in the limbs to hit draw weight. With heavier draw weights these can be very high performance bow designs.... but unfortunately once you get below 50# on that kind of design the limb thickness diminishes to the point of vertical instability and you get those floppy limb bows and they do this.... This is an old video i did for a friend. both the bowyer who built this bow, and my friend have passed away. So i use it to share knowledge for other bowyers playing with limb design.
https://youtu.be/sEOF6eCD-Mc?si=APQDGYVNJ7BZSSyZ
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I used form plans from a pretty reputable guy on here. But when profiling I goofed up big time. I hit the specs correctly on the bottom limb. But on the top limb 12" out from center I'm like 3/8 or so narrower that the bottom limb in the same spot.
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I'm not saying its a bad design. but they can be fickle at times. There are a lot of bowyers out there that really like that design, and they can be good shooting bows once you have things dialed in and the bugs worked out. I played with a similar shape myself years ago. Obviously you figured out what you can't do now, and will do better on the next one....
Bows are like women.... They come in all shapes and sizes, and have different personalities. Ya can't live with em.... and ya can't live without em either... Some are just better than others, from one man's perspective.
Kirk
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Yep definitely builder error...
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Kirkll
I like your system for laying out your pattern with Formica. Where can I get it. Thx John
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I’m quite sure you could by small quantities at Home Depot or Lowe’s, but I’m not real sure about it… I’ve had rolls of the stuff in my shop left over from old remodeling jobs years ago, and haven’t bought any in years.…. If you can’t find any local, let me know. I could rip up some 1.75” strips and fix ya up.
Kirk
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Kirkll
I like your system for laying out your pattern with Formica. Where can I get it. Thx John
Call a few cabinet shops in your area. Lots of them will give away or sell their off cuts cheap just to get them out of the shop.
Mark
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Kirkll
I like your system for laying out your pattern with Formica. Where can I get it. Thx John
Call a few cabinet shops in your area. Lots of them will give away or sell their off cuts cheap just to get them out of the shop.
Mark
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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I made my templates out of .060 actionboo parallels.
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I made my templates out of .060 actionboo parallels.
That would work fine i'll bet. once they were sealed i don't think they would warp. and certainly flexible enough. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: