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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Trenton G. on February 26, 2024, 11:35:57 AM
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Two of my buddies and I finally pulled the trigger and got Idaho elk tags for this fall. One of my buddies lives there, but two of us do not, and I'm working hard on compiling a list of what I need and what I don't need based off of his recommendations and others. We'll be pretty much living off of our back for a week, so packing efficiently is fairly important. That being said, I'm torn between bringing my small one person tent or using a bivy and tarp. The tent would add an extra few pounds to my pack and takes up a bit more space than the bivy. That being said, those of you have used both, which do you prefer? Also, any other gear recommendations are appreciated. Really looking forward to this trip!
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Everyone is different when it comes to comfort level when spending the night in the mountains. I usually set up a base camp and return to it nightly, but I never leave camp without a bivy setup in my pack. If I'm on elk at the end of the day and I'm miles from base camp, I'm spending the night there. My bivy setup consists of a down sleeping bag, a small light sleeping pad, and a good lightweight tarp. The bugs are mostly gone by the time elk season rolls around here in Idaho at the elevations I'm hunting at, and that's the only justification for a tent, so I go as light as possible.
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I'll throw out another option. I'm a hammock guy, a few ounces lighter than a tent with Dyneema fly and you always have a flat spot.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
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I'll be watching this one. :thumbsup:
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Trenton, in 1973-74 I was about your age and lived in Montana. I had o.t.c. sheep tags in what is now the Absaroka/Beartooth Wilderness Area and spent many weeks scouting and hunting there. I was always alone and carried an 8'x8' sheet of string-reinforced visqueen. I would fold it in half, put in my pad/sleeping bag and put rocks (there were always plenty) over the bottom and side and slide in from the top. It worked fine but I readily admit my brain probably was not fully formed back then and Maclean is absolutely correct that "everyone is different when it comes to comfort level when spending the night in the mountains".
Today I would opt for the lightest, quality one person tent I could find.
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I've done plenty of both. For me, a floorless trecking pole tent, which is really just a shaped tarp, gets the vote every time anymore. One from any of the quality companies probably won't weigh more or have more bulk than a waterproof bivy. If weather is bad, its nice to be able to sit up and get dressed, pack gear and even heat water for coffee or breakfast in the tent. If you pack for bad weather with a bivy, you'll be bringing a tarp and then you are more than likely heavier than a floorless 1- or 2- person floorless shelter. Just my 2-cents worth. I do know of a couple folks that love their bivy.
It sure is fun testing out all of them. Good luck!
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Thanks for all the responses guys, this is really helpful. Keep them coming!
Wudstix, you're not the first person who has brought up a hammock, and the idea is really intriguing to me. Is there a certain one that you prefer to use? I have a generic hammock (no clue what brand), but I have trouble getting comfortable in it since I'm a bit taller. What brand do you have?
Maclean, I was considering bringing both so that I can do just what you are describing. Set up the tent somewhere as our base camp and then carry the bivy in my day pack so that if needed we can spike out overnight. My only concern with the bivy and tarp is getting caught out in some nasty weather and waking up with water running under the tarp and soaking everything. I suppose picking a good piece of ground would be important.
Jim, that sounds like a good idea. Not sure my brain is fully developed either, so if I get in pinch, I might have to give that a try. OTC sheep tags would be a dream, I'm super jealous of that opportunity!
Clarkansas, I've looked at these floorless shelters and they look pretty nice! I like the idea of being able to set them up and have enough room to move around underneath. I still need to get hiking poles at this point, but they're on the short list.
So I've got a votes for tents, bivy's, floorless shelters, and hammocks. Thanks for helping me narrow this down guys! :laughing:
I'll be in Idaho the first week of May bear hunting, but we plan on using the truck as base camp every day. I might bring a few options and see which one I like best, then go with that for the elk hunt. I'm looking forward to doing some testing, and appreciate the information on everything so far! Any other gear suggestions that you have learned about along the way on trips such as this would be really appreciated!
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My rig is the DST from Seek Outside. It can be set up as a fully enclosed tent (floorless) in less than 10 minutes.
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Trenton, my bivy camps aren't what I would call comfortable. But it keeps me out there in good shape, and when you're on the elk it just doesn't seem to matter. I never remember how cold or wet I was, but I do remember those nights I camped 300 yards above a small band of elk with a nice herd bull talking all night.
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Check out main boards, Hunting Essentials, Elk Pack List for a lot of good info.
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I second the Hammock idea. I've enjoyed my Hennessy over the years.
If you're on the move and never really know where you'll end up, its great, and keeps you off the cold ground. Just set up the fly (or second tarp) to keep the wind off you.
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I'll throw out another option. I'm a hammock guy, a few ounces lighter than a tent with Dyneema fly and you always have a flat spot.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
I'm a fairly restless sleeper. I alternate between sleeping on my back and either side maybe 10-15 times a night. And that's just the times I’m aware of. If you sleep in a hammock, are you pretty much limited to sleeping on your back all night, or are you able to turn over from time to time?
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You can sleep on either side or your back in a hammock Dave. I sleep about as bad as you and I get some very good sleep in my Hammock. I have a Warbonnet Blackbird and love it. Especially when it is rainy out. It is lighter than my 2 man tent but not much. The only draw back with a hammock in colder weather is your underside gets cold. Making it necessary to have a pad or an underquilt. Warning! It can get pretty expensive Buying a good tarp and down quilts!
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If you can afford a little extra bulk and weight, one thing I've done with my Hennessy hammock is to pack a thin, inflatable ground pad. It takes a bit of finagling getting both you and it up in the hammock, but it flattens and spreads the hammock, keeps your underside warm, and makes shifting around easier if you need to roll or move. Adds weight and bulk though, so depends on your needs.
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Good for you Trenton getting after it while you’re young-you got your priorities straight! My buddies and I had it backwards at your age and worked too much. Good luck!
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I’ve hunted elk in Colorado five times. My son and I used a tent each time, so I have no experience with anything else.
Two of the five times were backpacking in about five miles. It rained enough both times that we were thankful for the tent. Some kind of water treatment was important.
I am envious! We had a great time, especially on our backpack trips but those days are gone at least for me.
The photo shows the terrain we were hunting in, but was taken on a scouting trip.
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I think that bivys, tents, tarps, hammocks, and tepees all have their place. I run a 10X10 ultralight silnylon tarp (lite outdoors) about 80% of the time. It's around 1lb and can withstand any weather with a proper pitch. It can be set on steep hillsides like in an elk bed or game trail. I think condensation is harder to manage with the bivi and I think it's harder to stay warm in a hammock. The tepee with a stove can be a game-changer in wet late-season hunts.
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You might check out Mountain Hardware KIVA or HOOPLA . I have and have used the KIVA.
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I've never had a problem with staying warm with an inflatable matt or closed cell matt underneath, quilt over top, inside the mosquito netting of a Hennessey and a Dyneema fly. I've never been below 20*, but I sleep warm just with body heat. For colder weather I do pack lightweight Polypropylene longies and a light fleece top. Use some plastic feed/seed bags as a floor mat, so I don't step out onto the ground. Hold it in place with a couple rocks and hiking boots. Hammock allows for a flat spot every time you camp.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
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There are a lot of hours in the day that are dark. I guess it sounds like a good idea for weight savings...but man, I can't imagine staying in a tube of plastic, in a hammock, or under a postage stamp sized piece of nylon like 12 hours a day for a week. Add in a half day or two rained out of hunting and that bivy would feel like a coffin.
There are some fantastic, lightweight shelters anymore that have room. On my Alaska hunts (weight restricted flying in, not packing on my back) the Sawtooth is gold. You split that up between 2 guys and you are at 3-4 lbs each or so. For another pound and a half each you can have a Ti stove.
R
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I've only ever spent 3-4 hours after light in a hammock due to rain, I can see where that would be no fun for a day or so. Most of my experience with rain has been hiking in it.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
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As I mentioned earlier, my spike camps or bivy camps are not my typical camp. That's only for special circumstances like being close to elk at the end of the day and miles from base camp, or if a big storm rolls in quickly. You've got to carry a way to stay relatively dry and warm overnight. It's not for extended periods, and it's not high comfort. That's what base camp is for, and my base camps are very comfortable. Not too far from the truck, nice canvas wall tent, cot, big thick sleeping pad, big thick sleeping bag, heater in the tent, ample cooking setup, plenty of water, food coolers, a little bit of whiskey, etc.
If I'm not on top of elk that I want to hunt at daybreak, then I'm heading back to the comforts of base camp even if I get there after dark. But if I've spent the day chasing elk, and it's almost dark and I'm 5 miles from base camp, I'm going to spend the night where I am. Elk hunting is all about creating opportunities and if I'm on them I'm going to stick with them until I can get it done. No matter what, comfort be damned.
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Thanks for all the input guys! I'm glad to see everyone's different perspectives on this stuff, and hear what they do and don't like about each set up. I'm kind of in the same camp as McDave, where being cooped up in a bivy in bad weather doesn't sound super enjoyable. However, I'll test it out and see what I think. I hope to do a couple of backpacking weekends around here first and get a feel for what works best before heading out west.
I am really liking both the floorless shelter and the hammock ideas. My biggest concern with the hammock would be staying warm, but I've got a good sleeping pad that I could fit in there, along with a good sleeping bag. Thanks for all help!
Maclean, I think for the reasons that you mentioned, I'm going to try and carry a bivy every day regardless just in case those types of situations come up. (We've never elk hunted before, so I don't have super high confidence in being in that situation haha!) Then try and have a more comfortable base camp to work out of.
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In the mountains, every ounce counts when it's on your back. And you have to pack for the expected (large dead animal on the ground) and the unexpected (big storm or injury). Those items add up quickly so choose wisely.
I don't carry a stove and fuel, just water & filter and ready to eat protein bars. Basic first aid kit, basic survival kit, game bags & paracord, headlamp, knives & bone saw, map & compass, binos, and my bivy setup. Which still feels like too much sometimes.
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Try a hammock warmth is not an issue with a under matt. Mosquito netting holds in an incredible amount of heat under a fly.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
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I have used a bivy a couple times on solo elk hunts. I was only in it for sleep, so it was managable.
I did have a siltarp to keep rain off for another layer if needed.
Hiking 8 miles in, weight was a big issue for me.
Having had a few bear encounters while hunting, I always bring bear spray now. I don't care how much that weighs.
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There are a lot of hours in the day that are dark. I guess it sounds like a good idea for weight savings...but man, I can't imagine staying in a tube of plastic, in a hammock, or under a postage stamp sized piece of nylon like 12 hours a day for a week. Add in a half day or two rained out of hunting and that bivy would feel like a coffin.
There are some fantastic, lightweight shelters anymore that have room. On my Alaska hunts (weight restricted flying in, not packing on my back) the Sawtooth is gold. You split that up between 2 guys and you are at 3-4 lbs each or so. For another pound and a half each you can have a Ti stove.
R
I use the same setup as Ryan on my Alaska trips and when spending a week in the backcountry chasing elk. When going for a few days after elk I use 10x10 silnylon tarp same as Twitchstick.
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I like my hammocks. I have a couple setups depending on time of year and how many comforts I would like. I use a 0* down underquilt and 20* top quilt and am quite toasty down to about 15* so far. I have two tarps and a set of tarp poles depending on how far I plan to go and if I need to prioritize weight or security from weather. An enclosed 10’x11’ tarp with internal poles is a lot of space if you’re gonna spend time in there. For hanging a set of Dutchware beetle buckles with cinch strap is quick and easy to adjust. Especially with climbing grade caribiners on the ends of the strap. Clip the strap around the tree, adjust the slide buckle and hook the strap me loops of the hammock onto the buckle. I run a Teton Hammock company hammock with integrated bug net and same brand of quilts. I have the entire hammock asssembly inside of a giant tube sleeve called a catch all sack with just the end loops sticking out. So I can attach my straps to the trees, attach the hammock and roughly adjust it, then slide the catch all sack off for a set up steel system ready to go. Last time I times it this winter it took 10 minutes to fully set up the tarp and hammock. And I’m a side sleeper but also flop and sprawl all over comfortably. I roll a little ledge on the corner of the hammock to make a head rest. Oh and the larger the hammock the more comfortabl. For me I like a 11’ long by 60” wide and I’m 5’9” and 175#. If your 6’ you may want a 12’ hammock.
I hope that helps a little in the hammock side of things.
Kyle
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This is my Hennessy and Dyneema fly, Doors folded down totally close off the end, have them tucked in so I can close them without getting wet. Like the straps and cinch buckles for adjustment ease. Always have a flat spot to sleep. Rocks aren't a concern. This is a stop in GA on the AT a couple years ago. Working my way through the whole thing.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
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:shaka: I'm with Ryan all the way on this one.
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All my stops are for not more than two nights, and I go solo, so a light hammock is great. If I was going to set up camp for a week and there were a couple of us, I'd agree with Ryan and a larger tent. If it was just me, I have a Durston that would work. Room to move some and cook in the tent. Creature comforts are nice if you're not mobile.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
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I really like the looks of both of those setups! If we knew for sure that we were going to be staying in one spot, then a bigger tent split up between the three of us would definitely be nice to have! I'm just not certain how things will play out, so being mobile is nice! I really appreciate everyone's input on here! Hopefully I am able to report back at some point with my experiences!
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You can be mobile, as well with a lightweight tent. Depending on terrain, finding a flat spot can be tough. Cooking inside a hammock in the rain can be done (with practice), tent makes it a bit easier.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire: