Post by: Bar_BN on April 12, 2024, 01:34:03 PM
Post by: LoneRanger on April 12, 2024, 01:46:18 PM
Post by: Terry Green on April 12, 2024, 01:50:38 PM
They have also been banned from other leases and hunt clubs due to the same fact that are hog hunting facilities.
I'm not sure what you're planning on shooting with them, but there is a place for those on really big game but not stateside. If you can't get a wide two blade, 3 blade or a four blade through an animal in the United States, you have a serious issue with your setup and your bow, r you have no clue what you're doing.
I'm sorry.
If I sound harsh but I will no longer blood trail any animal shot with these Narrow heads on game on any hurt that I am on, And they are banned from any hunt that I run. I detest wounded animals that are not recovered due to lack of blood and so many lost animals. Good luck
Post by: Bar_BN on April 12, 2024, 02:47:37 PM
Grizzly broadheads have caused more losses of havelina and hogs at the LaredoTusk Roundup hunts and others than any head ever manufactured in history.
They have also been banned from other lisa's and hot clubs due to the same fact that are hog hunting facilities.
I'm not sure what you're planning on earning with them.But there is a place for those on really big game but not stateside. If you can't get a wide two blade, 3 blade or a foreblade through an animal in the United States, you have a serious issue with your setup and your bow.Or you have no clue what you're doing.
I'm sorry.
If I sound harsh but I will no longer blood trail any animal shot with these Narrow heads on game on any hurt that I am on, And they are banned from any hunt that I run. I detest wounded animals that are not recovered due to lack of blood and so many lost animals.Good luck
Yes i agree with you i dont hunt pigs or deer with them fr that reason but they do make awesome rabbit heads which is what istarted using them for.They are small enoughnot to damage too much meat but im running out of them thinking about adding an adder behind the head if i can find some more. As for as the heads i hunt with i use single bevel cutthroats 1 1/8” heads forcouple years now on pigs and deer they have been great plenty of blood and nice holes havent not recovered yet.Thats why i never hunted with the griz before because they were too narrow it scared me but recently started using them on small game (rabbits) they work great!
Post by: Wudstix on April 12, 2024, 10:42:16 PM
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Post by: Terry Green on April 13, 2024, 07:24:48 AM
Grizzly broadheads have caused more losses of havelina and hogs at the LaredoTusk Roundup hunts and others than any head ever manufactured in history.
They have also been banned from other lisa's and hot clubs due to the same fact that are hog hunting facilities.
I'm not sure what you're planning on earning with them.But there is a place for those on really big game but not stateside. If you can't get a wide two blade, 3 blade or a foreblade through an animal in the United States, you have a serious issue with your setup and your bow.Or you have no clue what you're doing.
I'm sorry.
If I sound harsh but I will no longer blood trail any animal shot with these Narrow heads on game on any hurt that I am on, And they are banned from any hunt that I run. I detest wounded animals that are not recovered due to lack of blood and so many lost animals.Good luck
Yes i agree with you i dont hunt pigs or deer with them fr that reason but they do make awesome rabbit heads which is what istarted using them for.They are small enoughnot to damage too much meat but im running out of them thinking about adding an adder behind the head if i can find some more. As for as the heads i hunt with i use single bevel cutthroats 1 1/8” heads forcouple years now on pigs and deer they have been great plenty of blood and nice holes havent not recovered yet.Thats why i never hunted with the griz before because they were too narrow it scared me but recently started using them on small game (rabbits) they work great!
Yes, I'm sorry.That I budged the last thread.But voice command sucks while you're driving down the road...
Here are my modified small gamers....
https://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=108894.msg2040028#msg2040028
I'd grind the corners off of the Wensels because I keep my small game Arrows in my back quiver and my Hog andkavalina heads in my bow. Quiver, because the beveled corners allowed them to come out of my back quiver easily.
Post by: fisherick on April 13, 2024, 04:09:35 PM
Post by: Wudstix on April 14, 2024, 01:00:34 AM
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Post by: Roger Norris on April 14, 2024, 11:42:54 AM
Grizzly broadheads have caused more losses of havelina and hogs at the LaredoTusk Roundup hunts and others than any head ever manufactured in history.
They have also been banned from other lisa's and hot clubs due to the same fact that are hog hunting facilities.
I'm not sure what you're planning on earning with them.But there is a place for those on really big game but not stateside. If you can't get a wide two blade, 3 blade or a foreblade through an animal in the United States, you have a serious issue with your setup and your bow.Or you have no clue what you're doing.
I'm sorry.
If I sound harsh but I will no longer blood trail any animal shot with these Narrow heads on game on any hurt that I am on, And they are banned from any hunt that I run. I detest wounded animals that are not recovered due to lack of blood and so many lost animals.Good luck
I am glad it was Terry saying this, and man do I agree. I have experiemented with single bevel broadheads several times. Never again. Terrible blood trails.
Post by: Wudstix on April 14, 2024, 09:20:33 PM
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Post by: Roger Norris on April 15, 2024, 08:09:58 AM
What is dislike is the whole single bevel 3:1 ration concept. There is not a big enough hole.
I hunt whitetails and the OCCASIONAL black bear. They are very easy to punch through with a much wider 2 blade or 3 blade head.
Post by: frassettor on April 15, 2024, 08:45:39 AM
Post by: Bar_BN on April 15, 2024, 09:45:32 AM
Post by: Wudstix on April 15, 2024, 10:30:06 AM
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Post by: cacciatore on April 16, 2024, 07:32:14 AM
For sure a good poundage bow and a heavy arrow solve this handicapp. I think a well experienced bowhunter can make the right choice and keep those blades scaring sharp
Post by: Bar_BN on April 16, 2024, 09:31:36 AM
I see the opinions and experiences of everybody and I think there is always a trade off, the broadheads that leave the best blood trails sometimes don’t have the best penetration and the best penetrating broadheads don’t often leave a decent blood trail. Lol the best is to make the perfect shoot to see them fall in sight:)Very Well said i agree!
For sure a good poundage bow and a heavy arrow solve this handicapp. I think a well experienced bowhunter can make the right choice and keep those blades scaring sharp
Post by: Wudstix on April 16, 2024, 11:45:31 AM
I see the opinions and experiences of everybody and I think there is always a trade off, the broadheads that leave the best blood trails sometimes don’t have the best penetration and the best penetrating broadheads don’t often leave a decent blood trail. Lol the best is to make the perfect shoot to see them fall in sight:)
For sure a good poundage bow and a heavy arrow solve this handicapp. I think a well experienced bowhunter can make the right choice and keep those blades scaring sharp
I agree. The only poor blood trails I recall were from marginal hits. Good bow poundage and solid sharp broadheads combined with decent shoot placement are the key.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Post by: Roger Norris on April 16, 2024, 04:31:50 PM
There are some excellent quality SB heads out thier.....but no more for me.
Post by: Wudstix on April 16, 2024, 04:44:27 PM
Good to note, I have no experience with SB, but have heard allot of good buzz about the Abowyer. All the blood trials shown, Stevie Wonder could follow, but I guess the poor ones don't make the press. Probably, confine my initial trials to hogs, until they prove themselves. I generally have two holes in almost all of my critters.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire: :thumbsup: :saywhat:
Post by: Bar_BN on April 17, 2024, 03:36:35 PM
Post by: Tedd on April 17, 2024, 08:02:21 PM
I think this year I'll try treesharks. I never shot a deer with one!
Tedd
Post by: Tedd on April 17, 2024, 08:04:36 PM
Post by: Spottedwolf on April 17, 2024, 08:16:34 PM
Post by: Wudstix on April 17, 2024, 09:20:25 PM
That's why I'm looking into Abowyer with 1 1/4 - 1 1/2" x 2 1/2" with 175-210 grains. There should be plenty cut.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Post by: Onehair on April 18, 2024, 04:29:06 AM
Post by: Mint on April 18, 2024, 12:45:57 PM
Now I shoot Palmer Extreme Cut broadheads for deer and Simmons for hogs, Land sharks, swamp sharks and interceptors. Both the Palmer's and Simmons leave amazing blood trails.
Post by: Tedd on April 18, 2024, 08:21:20 PM
Tedd
Post by: Wudstix on April 18, 2024, 08:25:45 PM
They have a good selection of glue on heads. The heads I referred to are glue on.
Post by: Mint on April 26, 2024, 10:30:05 AM
Now im curious has anyone ever taken a deer with the simmons land shark 1 5/8 cut and how it performs penetration and blood ? Ive never shot one that wide
Yes, I shot small buck with one and several hogs. Blood trail was superb but they were all double lunged.
Post by: Tajue17 on April 26, 2024, 07:20:08 PM
I shoot everything from FF recurves and longbows to B50 44# selfbows,,, I'm curious now and have a question for you folks that do alot of killing,, what head would you use on a 500gr arrow from a 44# selfbow which I currently have single bevel 2 blades,, not sure Id go with a 3 blade but I honestly never tried one from a light bow.
Post by: Bar_BN on April 26, 2024, 08:13:39 PM
I don't think I ever seen this much bad press for the grizzly but I don't really read as many threads as I used too, I have them but never shot anything with them I don't think I do think they sharpen up pretty darn good..... heres the kicker though when I went on my first hog hunt I brought stos 160's to hog heaven everyone talked me out of multi blade head for that hunt and Ray was kinda crapping on my stos heads and introduced me to the file sharpened grizzlys but I wasn't a fan of that course type edge so stuck with the stos that had the ceramic fine edge you could shave with,,, don't think I ever seen a thread like this but it really keeps me on the fact that my #1 broadhead is and will always be the big snuffer its the one I grab for first...I like cutthroats, zwickey deltas, no mercies, this year im gonna be shooting the simmons tiger sharks . I have never shot the snuffers or vpa’s but i am going to OJAM next march and build my first selfbow and plan on 3 blade snuffs and wood arrows out of it
I shoot everything from FF recurves and longbows to B50 44# selfbows,,, I'm curious now and have a question for you folks that do alot of killing,, what head would you use on a 500gr arrow from a 44# selfbow which I currently have single bevel 2 blades,, not sure Id go with a 3 blade but I honestly never tried one from a light bow.
Post by: Don Batten on April 27, 2024, 07:25:22 AM
and although they don't leave as much blood as a narrow vpa 3 blade, i hear most of what i shoot go down and
actually the last two pigs i shot left a vast amount of blood on the ground. I don't doubt less blood on ground than a wider head but i truley believe the super sharp edge leads to less tramua on the animal there for they don't tend to bolt for a long distance and they don't clot up quickly as well. also its hard to find blood on poor shot placement. just my humble opinion. DB
Post by: Maclean on April 27, 2024, 09:00:24 AM
Post by: Onehair on April 27, 2024, 10:24:11 AM
Post by: Roger Norris on April 27, 2024, 10:52:10 AM
Stick with the 2 blade. I shoot a Grizzly out of my selbows with no issues. It’s important where you hit not the head as long as both are sharp. Bad shots happen and the tendency is to blame the head and not the shooter
I am an absolute believer in "to each their own".....that said, my comments aren't about "bad shots".
I have killed a few pickup loads of whitetails with traditional gear, many of them with single bevel heads. In my experience, a perfect shot with a single bevel head vs. a perfect shot with something wider....like an Ace...there is no comparison in the blood trail.
Single bevel heads will certainly make you a better tracker.....
Post by: Stringwacker on April 27, 2024, 07:35:53 PM
While I can't say I ever owned a grizzly head (not a fan of the tip design and single bevel), I think it needs to be kept in mind that Eskimo's, Stingers, Razorheads (1 1/16"), Grizzly's and tons of other heads are 1 1/8" wide. Some may be somewhat short/stubby and others.... long and narrow...but 1 1/8" is 1/1/8" as long as it sharpens and flies well.... and has enough steel for the game you intend to hunt. I wouldn't hunt a Rhino with a Razorhead. It might work but I don't want to try it.
I've kept a journal since my first deer and I just looked at it for confirmation and I have killed 137 deer, bear, caribou, antelope, elk, mule deer, pigs, and javelinas with those 1 1/8" width two blade style heads. I never even think about a blood trail as if I hit pretty close to the lethal zone; I have enough blood on the ground to take me to the animal. Like somebody else said, at least half the time I hear them fall and thrash down in the woods. I also recovered a few anatomical miracles along the way with those 'narrow' heads.
So maybe that's the real difference. I shoot broadheads that are as sharp as a surgeons scalpel and never worry about the blood trail. I'm a good enough tracker that it doesn't impede my ability to recover the animal if the hit is lethal. However, if I thought I needed a broadhead that would create a 3" wide trail of blood to make me happy....then I very well might have made a different selection way back there. I can see the logic in why others choose bigger broadheads. I'm not saying others should shoot what I do. I'm just saying those standard width broadheads work for me.
I did shoot my first recurve deer with a razor sharp 160 grain Snuffer out of a 72# Brackenbury and had that magical blood trail that everyone expects. I have to be honest and say it was pretty awesome to look up the trail and see blood for the next 50 yards. Yet, my broadhead barely achieve an off shoulder pass through. I thought at the time I was playing with fire with penetration and made a switch to a two blade Black Diamond....and never have looked back.
I think it's entirely possible that both opposite views are correct. It just depends on your desired expectations.
Post by: Wudstix on April 27, 2024, 08:17:17 PM
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Post by: Roger Norris on April 28, 2024, 09:27:53 AM
I do chuckle in this debate a bit, as the pro single bevel advocates drop things like "well mine are razor sharp" and "I put mine in the right spot" :biglaugh: Ye :biglaugh:ah guys....mine too
Post by: Maclean on April 28, 2024, 11:53:43 AM
It was just a few years ago that the Ashby research was all the rage. I still adhere to much of it.....heavy arrows, weight forward....and if I were pounding arrows through water buffalo I would most likely think the Grizzly single bevel 3:1 model for a broadhead was the cats meow.
I do chuckle in this debate a bit, as the pro single bevel advocates drop things like "well mine are razor sharp" and "I put mine in the right spot" :biglaugh: Ye :biglaugh:ah guys....mine too
I too think the Ashby studies have value. I use weight forward heavy arrows with heavy broadheads, but that's mostly for hunting elk, which are big tough animals. For smaller game, I don't think the studies are as important.
Post by: Terry Green on April 30, 2024, 07:37:28 AM
Post by: Wudstix on April 30, 2024, 02:05:01 PM
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Post by: Flbowhunter on April 30, 2024, 07:07:05 PM
Post by: ozy clint on May 01, 2024, 07:06:05 AM
Post by: Terry Green on May 01, 2024, 08:58:27 AM
I’ve seen weird things happen on blood trails, but one thing that’s been consistent is a wider or multi blade head leaves more blood on the ground. I think a lot of guys up north in wider areas have no problems with the skinny head’s because you can see ur critter fall. Down here in the swamps if the animal makes it 25-30 yards a trail can be difficult without good blood.
I hear ya, there's a guy that use to post here that showed a lot of pics of hogs from Cali, and he shot narrow grizzes, and he always claimed he saw his animals go down in sight. I guess so as his pics revealed that the terrain was like hunting on a golf course.
I told him to bring his heads east :biglaugh:
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Post by: Roger Norris on May 01, 2024, 09:02:57 AM
I’ve seen weird things happen on blood trails, but one thing that’s been consistent is a wider or multi blade head leaves more blood on the ground. I think a lot of guys up north in wider areas have no problems with the skinny head’s because you can see ur critter fall. Down here in the swamps if the animal makes it 25-30 yards a trail can be difficult without good blood.
I hear ya, there's a guy that use to post here that showed a lot of pics of hogs from Cali, and he shot narrow grizzes, and he always claimed he saw his animals go down in sight. I guess so as his pics revealed that the terrain was like hunting on a golf course.
I told him to bring his heads east :biglaugh:
That picture is perfect Terry.....up here we hunt swamps pretty hard...not the same vegetation, but imagine vines of every type...poison ivy, wild grape, etc...before a hard freeze and big wind, it is too thick to see an animal further than 10 feet. If a deer goes 100 yards with no blood, you better be an expert tracker.
Post by: Wudstix on May 01, 2024, 03:47:15 PM
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Post by: ozy clint on May 01, 2024, 03:58:00 PM
I’ve seen weird things happen on blood trails, but one thing that’s been consistent is a wider or multi blade head leaves more blood on the ground. I think a lot of guys up north in wider areas have no problems with the skinny head’s because you can see ur critter fall. Down here in the swamps if the animal makes it 25-30 yards a trail can be difficult without good blood.
I hear ya, there's a guy that use to post here that showed a lot of pics of hogs from Cali, and he shot narrow grizzes, and he always claimed he saw his animals go down in sight. I guess so as his pics revealed that the terrain was like hunting on a golf course.
I told him to bring his heads east :biglaugh:
Kingwouldbe?
I used to enjoy his posts.
Post by: Terry Green on May 01, 2024, 04:44:29 PM
Post by: ozy clint on May 01, 2024, 08:34:12 PM
Post by: Wudstix on May 02, 2024, 04:55:24 PM
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Post by: Mike Yancey on May 07, 2024, 09:37:02 AM
I will also say that there are some very experienced bowhunters here and can't figure out why the wide range of experiences on this.
With my thoughts on this I really question what some call sharp. I did loose an animal in Africa a couple of years ago to a shot, that in all aspects on film and in experience looked perfect! Absolutely no blood and the trackers couldn't find it. In all honesty, I have to fault myself on that for getting careless and thinking that kinda sharp was sharp enough. I got a pass through but still I knew the head should have been sharper. After that experience I vowed to never shoot one that wouldn't pop hair at the touch. Going back to Africa the next year with that in mind I worked every head with a file, three grits of stone then leather until you could walk by one and get cut. Two animals fell to those heads that year and both animals you could see blood fly in the air at the impact with the naked eye and on camera it was even more amazing to see. One a 1000 pound Eland and the other a Bushbuck and I'm not kidding, blood filled the air at impact on both animals and it wouldn't have been any better if it had six blades.
Again, I know there are real experiences from some great hunters here that can back up their opinions! I just know for me that I like how they fly, I have NEVER had a head failure by breaking or turning and have a pile of critters to their credit both large and small.
Post by: Wudstix on May 07, 2024, 12:14:54 PM
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Post by: Mike Yancey on May 13, 2024, 08:12:39 AM
I have given this a lot of thought and have decided that the bevel, the size or number of blades doesn't make all the difference. Sometimes things just happen and more times than not its because of sharpness.
I shot a 144'' mule deer in Wyoming with a three blade head, blew through the deer like he wasn't even there, watched him fall and when I walked up to him he jumped up and ran off. Almost eight hours later I made another stalk and put another one in him to finish the job! After skinning and looking to see what happened, the arrow passed through both, yes BOTH lungs with the perfect little three blade mark through both lungs. The lungs deflated to little hard white lumps about the size of grapefruits. I don't know that you can shoot them any better than that and with a three blade at that.
They have to be sharp, no matter the head, had the same with an antelope one year. Ill still shoot any animal in the US with a single bevel Grizzly!
Post by: Mike Yancey on May 13, 2024, 09:18:54 AM
Here's another Three Blade train wreck. This antelope was shot at close range, perfect double lung pass through. Watched him for 8 hours and stalked up for a finish shot. Things just happen sometimes, no matter how many blades or how good the shot. In 50 years of bowhunting all over the world and truck loads of successful kills, sometimes things just happen no matter how good a shot you make or how many blades you shoot or how wide a cut! I really feel like the answer is SHARP!!!
Post by: Bamboozle on May 13, 2024, 05:11:25 PM
Post by: Wudstix on May 13, 2024, 05:33:04 PM
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Post by: Hud on May 13, 2024, 11:59:34 PM
Post by: Terry Green on May 14, 2024, 07:14:39 AM
Multi blades through the guts provide a bigger hole for more blood period. Also there is a chance for an intestinal trail also as I have been on more than several of those.
Big wide or multi blades through the guts release more toxins, causing the animal to lay down quicker. And stay down without having them get up with the coagulated blood clot at the entrance and exit wound. And then going off and leaving no trail.
The more damage you can do, the better.
And if people think that shooting a forty five pound bow with a single belvel grizzly is gonna guarantee them a blow through the ball joint good luck.
Yes Corey Mattson has banned them on his lease that he has run for over two decades and they are now banned on the Laredo hunts that I run. Some of my decision was also made from the Solana hunts that I ran for years from back in the two thousands and early teens.
In my experience of tracking so many other people's animals is that narrow two blade trails end up in a dead end over eighty five percent more than any other multi blade wide blade head.
And then we want to go with the two holes are better than one.... I've never had a problem getting multi blade heads to make both.
Again the grizzly has its place but I see no place for it stateside at alll.
If I can kill a 2100 pound American Boston with a 70 pound bow and a 3 blade it seems to reason thet that you should be able to kill a hundred and fifty pound deer with a multi blade or a wide two blade. If not maybe you should check your equipment and your tune.
I don't mean to be harsh, just stating my observations over the years. And I'm not discounting Mike Yancey's post. He's in a different league than most.
Post by: matt steed on May 14, 2024, 10:16:50 PM
Just from what I have seen, I do feel that I have gotten better blood trails with a 3-blade head. But some of the two blade kills were amazing blood trails also.
I almost think you could shoot 10 animals today with the exact same broadhead and five would leave a good trail and five wouldn’t.
The doe with the recurve was shot with a Grizzly single bevel on a wood shaft. The blood trail was amazing.
The deer hanging up was shot with a Snuffer from a 49# longbow on a 2018. The hole from the Snuffer was astronomical.
If I could only shoot one head from now on, I would pick a 3 blade.
Post by: Terry Green on May 14, 2024, 11:17:03 PM
And this is the results of a 145 grain Snuffer on a large trotting javalina with the same bow...
Post by: Mike Yancey on May 15, 2024, 09:01:14 AM
This is one case in that I really don't think that it would have been a success had it not been a two blade single bevel. An African Gemsbok that the arrow centered a huge rib bone and still got into the goodies out of a 60 lb sinew backed osage bow. Heavy arrow weight and bow weight came into play here as well.
Post by: Terry Green on May 15, 2024, 09:12:20 AM
Looking forward to hearing about your hunt this year.
Post by: Bamboozle on May 15, 2024, 11:07:08 AM
Post by: Wudstix on May 15, 2024, 10:16:10 PM
Was that a single bevel that took the Gemsbok?
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Post by: charles m on May 17, 2024, 10:13:44 AM
Multi blades through the guts provide a bigger hole for more blood period. Also there is a chance for an intestinal trail also as I have been on more than several of those.
Big wide or multi blades through the guts release more toxins, causing the animal to lay down quicker. And stay down without having them get up with the coagulated blood clot at the entrance and exit wound. And then going off and leaving no trail.
If I can kill a 2100 pound American Boston with a 70 pound bow and a 3 blade it seems to reason thet that you should be able to kill a hundred and fifty pound deer with a multi blade or a wide two blade. If not maybe you should check your equipment and your tune.
Yes, I totally agree. And the fact, there's a thread I can't find on this to save my life, that animals step forward 90% of the time vs stepping backward. Any broadhead through the guts is going to kill the animal, the head determines where sooner or later, and either increases or decreases your odds of finding it.
Post by: Terry Green on May 17, 2024, 12:00:26 PM
And I have posted many times, based on that thread as back up for my prior beliefs and reasons, that is the reason I shoot the most highly lethal head for the highest percentage of a worse case scenario. Animals step forward way way more than they step back.
Post by: Mike Yancey on May 18, 2024, 08:16:51 AM
Mike;
Was that a single bevel that took the Gemsbok?
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Yes, a 185. I had a better picture showing the rib centered and how the head went through the rib and the damage it did in the process to the tissue around the wound channel, but couldn't find it.
Post by: Wudstix on May 18, 2024, 10:44:25 AM
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
Post by: Terry Lightle on May 21, 2024, 10:18:26 AM
Post by: Wudstix on May 21, 2024, 04:05:19 PM
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire: