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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: wood carver 2 on August 05, 2024, 01:11:12 PM

Title: Wood allergies
Post by: wood carver 2 on August 05, 2024, 01:11:12 PM
We all know that certain types of wood can cause allergic reactions and there have been some discussions here on the subject. I first noticed that I was beginning to become allergic when I was using pao ferro in some risers. Since then, I have had minor reactions to some other woods as well. Usually some itching, runny nose and sneezing.
Then last night I got so stuffed up that I couldn’t breathe through my nose and I was sneezing my head off. This after taking “ extra strength” allergy pills. I had been turning walnut and some honey locust earlier in the day.
The day before, I had been working with white ash with no problems at all.
Does anyone here know of any treatment for allergies. I’m going to be taking to the doctor when they’re open, but I’m interested in any options that are out there. I’m sure the doctor will have a simple answer: stop working with wood. To me that’s not an option.
Dave.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: wood carver 2 on August 05, 2024, 01:12:52 PM
I neglected to mention that while I was turning the wood, I was using dust collection and I was wearing my powered air filter.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: OldRawhide42 on August 05, 2024, 01:41:01 PM
Dave where does your powered air filter get its air feed from ???   It might not be the wood getting you.
Jim
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: wood carver 2 on August 05, 2024, 02:33:26 PM
It’s an industrial 3m unit. The filter is on a belt behind me. They use a similar model at work in the paint department. I bought mine with dust filters suitable for woodworking. The headgear has a full face mask and helmet with a seal around my face and neck. You might think it’s uncomfortable but I love it. I recently gave it a good cleaning and replaced the filter.
To be fair, I was covered in wood chips and dust while turning and I used the dust collector to clean off before I went inside.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: OldRawhide42 on August 05, 2024, 04:35:20 PM
I would move the air inlet outside. Easier said than done.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: wood carver 2 on August 05, 2024, 04:50:56 PM
Ideally yes, but it’s designed to be worn. The small fan wouldn’t be able push air through a long hose.
I’m wondering if there’s any treatment for the allergies that would mitigate the problem. Quitting woodworking isn’t going to happen.
Dave.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: Kirkll on August 05, 2024, 07:56:18 PM
I’ve been working wit( exotics for about 18 years now, and for the first 10 years I had no reactions to any woods at all. Age 45-55 period. Then I had a reaction to Zebra wood making me sneeze and clog up my sinuses real bad, and ripping ebony and Wenge bothered me a wee bit, like getting pepper in the nose but nothing else bothered me. I found the issues to be species related. Some woods no problem at all even without a dust mask. Then recently I got a serious reaction from a rosewood that caused a rash in the webs of both hands first, then spread up m6 arms and even my chest and arm pits…. I ended up at the doctors and was treated with steroids for this last one. Took a week to clear the rash…. I’m 68 years old now.

For self medication for sinus related issues and allergies I’d recommend Benadryl or antihistamines.
 
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: wood carver 2 on August 05, 2024, 09:08:24 PM
I wasn’t allergic to anything until I was in my 30’s. We moved back to southern Europe and the accatia trees hit me like a hammer when they flowered.
Wood never bothered me and I have been eating sawdust since I was a kid “ helping “ my Dad in his shop. A few years ago I started itching a bit while shaping some pau ferro, which is a rosewood if I’m not mistaken. I learned that once you become allergic to a wood, you can become allergic to others as well. It appears that walnut has become a problem now. That sucks because I have a lot of walnut and I’m in the middle of turning some 5 dozen twig pots for my Niece’s upcoming wedding. Yesterday, I took a couple of extra strength allergy pills and when I got really stuffed up, I took a shot of Flownase. Big mistake. My sinuses closed up completely.
I’ll ask about Benadryl. Hopefully I can be proactive before getting out in the shop.
Dave.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: garyschuler on August 05, 2024, 10:25:48 PM
Pretty much done with the rosewoods myself. Not bad reaction but why chase a Bear. My Nemesis is Smooth-on Epoxy. Man I am in bad shape for a week after. Even while wearing rubber gloves and trying to be as efficient as possible. I only make 2-3 Bows a year now for grandkids and family &friends. Really tears me up !!’
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: Kirkll on August 06, 2024, 01:16:19 AM
Pretty much done with the rosewoods myself. Not bad reaction but why chase a Bear. My Nemesis is Smooth-on Epoxy. Man I am in bad shape for a week after. Even while wearing rubber gloves and trying to be as efficient as possible. I only make 2-3 Bows a year now for grandkids and family &friends. Really tears me up !!’

Wow! Having an allergic reaction to EA-40 would be bad for a bowyer. Sorry to hear that Gary…
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: Burnsie on August 06, 2024, 09:08:59 AM
Epoxy allergies are no joke. I was using Total Boat - 2 part a fair amount last Fall on some projects I had going.  It closed up my sinuses and clogged me up so bad it was terrible.  Took me almost to Christmas time to get some relief. I try to avoid using it as much as possible now, and when I do I'm fully decked out with rubber gloves, respirator...etc. - seems to help.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: garyschuler on August 06, 2024, 03:48:13 PM
I’ just turned 66 , so now making is just a once in a while project anymore. But I developed red rashes and an itch that would drive me nuts. It lasts about a week. I can tell you, I am a little grumpy during that time.  !!! lol !!!😝
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: wood carver 2 on August 06, 2024, 04:55:54 PM
I was warned about getting epoxy on my skin years ago when I was building a boat. It’s one of those things that you will develop an allergy to if you keep getting it on your skin.
Thankfully, that’s one thing I can avoid, since I build wood and bamboo bows, I can use TB3.
Dave.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: Stagmitis on August 06, 2024, 05:38:32 PM
Hey gary maybe try Unibond 800- I use this glue for all my wood to wood glueups
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: Kirkll on August 06, 2024, 11:58:11 PM
Hey gary maybe try Unibond 800- I use this glue for all my wood to wood glueups

Did your bamboo arrive yet bro?
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: Even on August 07, 2024, 02:33:19 AM
A couple suggestions from experience with an allergy or two, and long experience working in particulate industrial atmospheres:

First, get a properly fitted double cartridge respirator with P3 cartridges.  They aren't super cheap, but they last a good long while, and filter out anything you'd be dealing with.  That, and a good pair of goggles, go a long way towards keeping any particulate out of your system.  Just be careful taking them off, and clean them up when you do.  Under sawdust service, they'll last for months.

Secondly, for those who have a hard time with anti-histamine drugs that make you drowsy (my issue: even the non-drowsy stuff puts me in slumber mode), or don't like drugs in general, try a couple grams of time-release vitamin C, and a gram of Citrus bioflavonoids (from the rinds of citrus fruits, found at health food stores).

 I pretty much managed to kill my cedar and hay-fever allergies by taking these, usually daily in the summer.  They pretty much do the same thing as anti-histamines, in a more natural fashion, by bolstering your own bodily defences against a histamine reaction.  They seem to work well for me, and don't make you want to sleep. 
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: Richard Korte on August 08, 2024, 12:51:24 AM
Cocobolo.......Years ago, when I started building bows, I was grinding a Cocobolo riser with a carbide Kutzall bit in my Foredom tool. The bit became clogged with the oily wood, so I took my propane torch, clamped the bit in my vice, and burned the clogged wood out of the burr. It never occurred to me that the smoke might be harmful, and it wasn’t......at least for about 20 minutes. My eyes began to burn along with my nose and upper lip. I’ll skip the details, but the results were blisters on every part of my face, neck, upper chest, and the back of my hands. It was months before all symptoms were gone. I haven’t touched that wood since.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: garyschuler on August 08, 2024, 07:37:52 AM
Yeah, Richard, that Cocobolo and Purpleheart, other oily woods clogging up and burning on sanding belts is terrible too. I wear a full face mask with filters and rubber gloves. Epoxies put me down for a few days. I guess I’m getting wimpy. !!
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: BigJim on August 11, 2024, 09:26:46 AM
I had some issues with cocobolo, bocote and lacewood about 10 years back. I asked every dr I could about it and then went to an alergist. They did testing and found that my system was loaded with something.

They gave me some medicine to bring it down to normal levels and I haven't had an issue since.. except lacewood! so I don't use it anymore.
BigJim
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: wood carver 2 on August 11, 2024, 06:23:28 PM
If I have another reaction like the one I had last week I will ask to get a referral to see an allergist. I have been ok for a few days now, but I just brought home a bunch of walnut , birch and honey locust. I’m half way through turning about 5 dozen bud vases for my Niece’s wedding. A lot of them are going to be walnut because we have a lot of it.
Dave.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: Birdbow76 on August 22, 2024, 11:47:10 AM
You can get a steroid shot in the hip that will take care of allergies for about 6 months. It makes your system not overreact to allergens. I get one every spring and it's a game changer.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: wood carver 2 on August 23, 2024, 09:30:23 AM
I’m waiting to get an appointment with an allergist. The steroid shot is something that I will ask about.
Dave.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: dbeaver on September 08, 2024, 11:10:00 AM
Hey guys just approaching this from perhaps a slightly different angle. And its just food for thought.

Allergies are an immune response and immune function is deeply tied to your quality of living, i.e. stressors of any kind including diet, other illness, sleep and mental load.  Theres no one thing at fault most often but a very complicated set of systems and interactions.  It might not be easy but can you think back on your general quality of health when these allergic responses began?  How have you been since otherwise, can diet or sleep be looked at, could total body inflammation be reduced to give the immune system a rest from being overreactive? these are some questions to think for yourselves.   My wife is a nutritionist(which has gained me some new perspective)  she has all sorts of extreme allergic reactions, but depending on the totality of circumstance and her ability to maintain wellness her reactions to known allergens will change.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: Kirkll on September 13, 2024, 09:20:01 PM
Hmmmmm..... "A nutritionist with all sorts of extreme allergic reactions...."   Does she have a degree in this field? or was it an acquired title?

I'm a firm believer in a good balanced diet, but i'm not big on vitamin supplements myself, but many folks swear by them.... :dunno:
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: dbeaver on September 13, 2024, 09:31:46 PM
her lifetime battle with allergies and eczema has driven her to this profession. shes credentialed with a degree and is board certified with the NANP, just completing required 500 hours with accredited mentorship cohort.  Its as much physcial and chemical mechanics taking place inside of our complex biological system just like the physics in the bows we build, and theres a balance in optimizing them just the same.  You be surprised as i see you assume nutrition is a field of supplements.  The old lady's preferred angle of approach is through eating animal based proteins and fats, as wild as you can get, to maintain the benefits of fat stored vitamins which metabolize far better and without loss than the supplements often found in plant formats that must be converted. I know this is an allergies post but i stand by there being nuance to inflammation attacks.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: Kirkll on September 13, 2024, 10:17:12 PM
her lifetime battle with allergies and eczema has driven her to this profession. shes credentialed with a degree and is board certified with the NANP, just completing required 500 hours with accredited mentorship cohort.  Its as much physcial and chemical mechanics taking place inside of our complex biological system just like the physics in the bows we build, and theres a balance in optimizing them just the same.  You be surprised as i see you assume nutrition is a field of supplements.  The old lady's preferred angle of approach is through eating animal based proteins and fats, as wild as you can get, to maintain the benefits of fat stored vitamins which metabolize far better and without loss than the supplements often found in plant formats that must be converted. I know this is an allergies post but i stand by there being nuance to inflammation attacks.

Excellent info... Trust me... I assume nothing in life my friend.... I ask questions and learn. My daughter is a practicing doctor in Psychology. 10 years of schooling and residency before getting licensed. So to say i'm open minded would be an understatement.   Our bodies are unbelievably  complex organisms with  different physiological and psychological characteristics depending on the individual. I highly respect the studies of both.... I'm just a stupid old carpenter / bowyer myself.    Kirk
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: wood carver 2 on September 14, 2024, 07:18:14 AM
Thanks for your input guys. What you both just wrote rings true with me and is a big reason why I get into arguments with my doctor. She acts as though everyone came off a production line and we’re all the same. Fortunately, I rarely see her. When I get an appointment at the clinic, I usually see a registered nurse, who I like a lot more. She treats patients as individuals and listens to what I say.
I have an appointment with an allergist in a few days. Hopefully he’ll work with me to find a solution.
Dave.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 20, 2024, 06:43:22 AM
IPE tore me up years ago and messed up my immune system.
Then purple heart did me in again 2 years ago.
I still get rashes not even being around wood.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: wood carver 2 on September 20, 2024, 09:13:39 AM
One thing I have learned is that once you become allergic to one type of wood, it won’t be long before you start to notice that other woods are beginning to bother you.
Epoxy is another sensitiser.  Avoid getting it on your skin. Even a little bit. It has a cumulative effect.
Isn’t it fun getting older?
Dave.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 20, 2024, 10:45:57 AM
Isn’t it fun getting older?

Ole Kenny M says it's fun and he's an old bugger:)
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: Kirkll on September 20, 2024, 11:24:37 AM
I'm going to be 69 in a couple weeks.... Some days i don't feel a day over 40..... It's those other days that i'm not fond of, and i creek like an old rocking chair. :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

A seriously big one to stay away from is getting acetone on your hands. Getting any type of solvent on your bare hands isn't advised, but acetone is a bad one. I've washed my hands in lacquer thinner for years wiping off epoxy. but i use gloves a lot more now. The stuff really dries your skin out, but i've had no other effects with that.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 20, 2024, 11:33:38 AM
Yup Kirk.
Ole Kenny's been dried up for a while too:)
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: garyschuler on September 20, 2024, 03:03:56 PM
Yeah Woodcarver. Those oily woods kick my butt for years. Finally said to heck with it. The smooth-on epoxy literally puts me over the edge, I get itches and rashes. Can’t literally touch any part of my body for days, or I develop a rash. Even if I get sone on my clothes, and wash them several times, I still get a rash at those spots. I work a lot with Myrtle wood and so far so good and it smells nice. I wear face masks and have vacuum system going, anytime I am turning or sanding and have air filtration system on. I have worked in dusty, smoky, enclosed areas most of my life with some nasty chemicals thrown in. I’m sure it is a combination of those and the years that add to the issues. Protect your lungs Guy’s. It sucks to be down to one.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: wood carver 2 on September 21, 2024, 08:44:44 AM
I first noticed that it was pau ferro that made me itch a few years ago, but lately it seems like walnut gets me stuffed up and sneezing. Problem is that I have literally tons of walnut. It’s manageable as long as I take care to use my air filter and dust collection and shower as soon as I’m done with it. Walnut isn’t an oily tropical wood, but it has something in it that bothers me. I know that walnut trees put some kind of toxin into the soil around them that keeps most other plants from growing nearby.
Dave.
Title: Re: Wood allergies
Post by: wood carver 2 on September 21, 2024, 08:47:29 AM
Kirk, I’m just as guilty when it comes to cleaning up with thinners, although I don’t do that anymore. Sometimes convenience overrules common sense.
Dave.