Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: buckeyebowhunter on September 25, 2024, 03:14:12 PM
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I have developed a decent collection of originals. Your Dad hit a home run when he developed these heads.
I was wondering if you may be able to help me date them. I've also noticed some differences in some of the head design, for example some of the back edges are thinner and more rounded where the cut out is, others are more straight with a thicker back edge. I am just curious about them and I enjoy learning the history about them. Thank you.
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Yup the one on the right with the squared inside cutouts is of an older, original design. Even older would be one without the pin in the tip and the very first ones were close to 190 grains.
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Kelly’s right (as usual) 😁. One on the right is older and has the pin instead of cone tip, the ones in packaging I’d say mid-late 80’s, the one on the right a bit older. The original ones had no pin or cone in tip and the way back ones would be silver soldered instead of copper brazed. I’d bust open the card packs and use em!
R
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Ryan,
Is there still a patent on them? Why in the heck is one of today's manufactures not making a replica? The 3 blades of today are really nice, but some more width would be great.
Tedd
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Also, with today's 3 blades, they are heavy, for their width. And they are few glue on choices for wood shafts. A 125-135-145 gr wide 3 blade glue on, does not exist!
I think I'll go on a Snuffer search.
Tedd
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Thanks for the replies fellas. Man I love these broadheads.
Way ahead of ya Ryan I already busted open the older pack with the square cut outs! What was the reasoning behind changing the cut out?
Also the square cut out heads seem bigger to me.
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+1 for shooting them while wearing a flat brim hat
+1 if you aim for the middle
+1 if it has a rattle can primer finish
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I’d imagine the change in cutouts had to do with more easily stamping out the blades. The old ones all have the right hardness to the steel, after Dad sold the business there were some runs of heads that were hard or soft.
I think I saw you, Rob E, in the Seattle airport one time….kind of a short stocky guy with a coal black beard and a flat brim cap? Looked like a bald head under the cap, but I don’t think you were packing Snuffers….struck me more like a single bevel guy 😆.
R
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Looks like I have the older square back. For anyone who hasn't logged a Snuffer kill, it is interesting to say the least. I have killed deer with 10 different heads that all did their job, but there is something unique about a Snuffer kill. For me it was always more of all the desire ables...blood, short recovery, quick death and super penetration along with easy sharpening.
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Looks like I have the older square back. For anyone who hasn't logged a Snuffer kill, it is interesting to say the least. I have killed deer with 10 different heads that all did their job, but there is something unique about a Snuffer kill. For me it was always more of all the desire ables...blood, short recovery, quick death and super penetration along with easy sharpening.
It just don't get any better than a snuffer kill! I wish I had bought more in my younger years, they aren't so easy to find these days. Especially the originals.
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Tedd, never was a patent on them as far as I know.
The hardest part to replicate to produce these heads is the die for the tapered ferrule. To reproduce that die in todays money would cost you close to mid six figures.
Last I knew someone in Mississippi or Louisiana owns the rights to the Snuffer, its tooling including this ferrule die, as well as all the former glue on Magnus broadheads.
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Thanks Kelly. Interesting. You would think it would be pretty easy for VPA to make a vented, wider cut 3 blade. Unless the process doesn't make a steel the would support blade with that much venting.
Was tuning critical with snuffers?
Tedd
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No patents on the head in our days. Like Kelly said, that ferrule was not something easily copied. Dad was a tool and die maker and one of his brothers worked in a steel processing company, so he designed and had that press built himself.
Thunder valley was the last outfit I knew of hthat had the heads, Mississippi as I recall.
Tedd, the whole anal retentive “fine tuning” thing is really pretty new, back in the day we had a handful of different sized aluminum arrows and shot em
to see which flew best, maybe twisted the string up a bit to quiet things down and get a little more forgiving higher brace height. And put big feathers on 😁 then went hunting.
I’ve never had problems getting Snuffers to shoot, but I use big feathers and don’t bare shaft “tune”. Animals don’t seem to know the difference so far! :goldtooth:
R
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Like Ryan said big feathers are helpful. I've found this to be the case with any bigger broadheads, I used to shoot deltas a lot and tuning them was very similar to the snuffer. 4 fletch can also help.
I on the other hand i do bare shaft starting out to figure out the best spine that will work with the weight broadhead I intend to shoot. However, I've gotten perfect bare shafts and then switched to a big broadhead and had inconsistent flight with small feathers and or 3 fletch. I think it could be mostly due to a poor release which I definitely have. Bigger or more feathers and even an elevated rest can all help with getting more consistent broadhead flight with big heads. It's no problem at all getting a 1" single bevel to fly perfect with tiny 2 inch feathers, but I've never been impressed with the performance of small broadheads on game.
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Ryan, I think the key there is "aluminums"! Aluminum works so well with traditional bows. I have been shooting old aluminums with my wood arrows on and off all summer. And even ordered a some new 2219 shafts. My quiver has four - 80-85 cedars with Deltas and one - 2219 with a tree shark on it for next weeks opener. I have those 80-85 cedars flying about as good as it gets. But the 2219 handles the tree shark better. I can even screw it on an old 2216 and it works fine.
In contrast, there must be $1,000 worth of carbon arrows in my bin. And that is where they will stay. Every time I think I have the perfect carbon recipe, I put the broad heads on and it turns to crap.
(Except for old batch of AD tapered Trads from 20 some years ago, those were amazing.)
Tedd
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Ryan, I think the key there is "aluminums"! Aluminum works so well with traditional bows. I have been shooting old aluminums with my wood arrows on and off all summer. And even ordered a some new 2219 shafts. My quiver has four - 80-85 cedars with Deltas and one - 2219 with a tree shark on it for next weeks opener. I have those 80-85 cedars flying about as good as it gets. But the 2219 handles the tree shark better. I can even screw it on an old 2216 and it works fine.
In contrast, there must be $1,000 worth of carbon arrows in my bin. And that is where they will stay. Every time I think I have the perfect carbon recipe, I put the broad heads on and it turns to crap.
(Except for old batch of AD tapered Trads from 20 some years ago, those were amazing.)
Tedd
Details on those gently used carbons please
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I have finally, in last couple years, come back to my Snuffers. That's what I started out with and should never have strayed. Had decent luck with other 160 grain heads, but the Snuffer still reigns. Have a couple hundred tucked away and even have a few 190 grain heads. Never had to go far after a Snuffer hit. Ryan was just up in TH, but didn't have wheels. Hopefully next time.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
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No doubt Snuffer's are/were a great broadhead.........I used them alot in the past, my favorite was the 145 grain glue-on's...........average recovery distance on deer was 50 yards---they don't suffer with a Snuffer. :goldtooth:
I'd still be shooting them if they were available.........seems odd that nobody has anything even close today. :dunno:
VPA only has 2 similar options....one is 1 1/4" but it weighs 250 grains and still only 1 1/4".........then they made the 1 1/2" for BigJim but they weighed 300 grains........BUT both were screw-in's and a bit heavy for my taste.
However, VPA used to make a 200 grain 1 1/4" glue-on........this was nice, but they dropped it.
I've seriously considered having them make a head in the Snuffer dimensions.........they will, but it's costly. :readit:
Another thing.........the Wensel Woodsman that 3Rivers now owns looks to have the same ferrule as the Snuffer.........looks like 3Rivers would consider making wider blades for their ferrule---they could call it the "Woodsman Wide"----I'd buy some how about ya'll?
:campfire:
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Mike I agree with what you're saying. It would be nice to see someone make them again. And convenient for sure considering the price of vintage snuffers.
However on the other hand I'm kinda glad they haven't started making them again. I'm not really an old man yet, at 34, but I've developed a stubbornness I guess about messing with something that is original. Kinda like all the remakes of movies we're seeing nowadays, just leave well enough alone!
Traditional archery for me has some sort of nostalgic/aesthetic grasp on me, and part of that is the Rothhaar snuffer. I like the originals best, I will probably keep one of my packs of originals sealed up just cuz I like looking at them. I've got so many snuffers that I should be set for life, maybe that's selfish but I just like em.
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I agree.........the Snuffer certainly don't need improving, we just need somebody to buy the business and start making them again.
Thunder Valley was the last owner (in Louisiana I believe).........guess they have everything needed to make the Snuffer........maybe one day. :campfire:
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The original Wensel Woodsman was made by Magnus who at the time owned the ferrule die for the Snuffers and used the Snuffer ferrule in making the Woodsman.
Then when 3 Rivers bought the rights to the Woodsman Magnus still made them using the Snuffer ferrule which they still owned.
After Magnus sold the rights to the Snuffer which included the ferrule die I assume don’t know who makes the Woodsman or how the Ferrule is made or by whom.
Doesn’t 3 Rivers now push a screw in version now? Can you even buy glue one anymore?
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I have a couple hundred heads and that should last me for the years I have left.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
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Kelly,
3Rivers still offers the glue-on Original Woodsman and the ferrule looks identical to the Snuffer........they advertise it as "Built on the best 11/32" ferrule on the market"........I have to agree---Roger sure designed a great ferrule with the amazing Snuffer.
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Well, don’t know what to say. Either 3Rivers got a bunch of the ferrules with the purchased of the Woodsman broadhead or they have made their own die to punch out the ferrules from flat stock.
Or maybe Magnus retained the ferrule die ownership, it was the most valuable piece of equipment.