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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Smguinnip on November 27, 2024, 06:53:09 AM
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I will be using Wenge for the first time on my next bow. it will be used as an I-beam as well as some accents and overlays. my question is- do the pores need to be filled before gluing up or do I just try and force the EA40 into the pores as best as I can and glue up as I normally would? I was thinking about using CA to seal/fill the pores then run through the drum sander to prep the surface for gluing, or would you all think this would be overkill? What has worked for you guys when dealing with porous woods like this?
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I’ve used wenge before and I just glued it up like normal. I normally use Titebond 3, but it shouldn’t make any difference. I think the problem with porosity occurs when you want a smooth finish where it’s exposed. If anything, the pores should help give a strong glue joint.
Dave.
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David is right..... I’ve used it lots for I-beams and a few footed risers sanded with 40 grit and cleaned up with air hose just glued up as normal with EA-40 so far no troubles, it’s when you want to fill all those pores for a smooth finish the work begins.
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You don't want to fill the pores on wenge with CA. It can leave white dots.. not always, but if you don't get the majority sanded off it will look like heck. It also won't help for adhesion.
I would use a ton of it if it weren't so difficult to fill the pores when finishing.
BigJim
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Brandon Staul of Rose Oak bows used a polyester resin for filling those Grand Canyon type pores on Wenge, and other porous woods. He did a lot of high gloss finishes on his bows too. I’ve never used it myself, so I can’t give a good reference to the exact material. So I’m no help there.
I just quit using the stuff myself. Like Jim, it ain’t worth the extra work having to fill that gain. Kirk
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Wenge, I love it. But it does take more fill work, if you want it smoooooth. With no grain or pinhole.
Richard Korte turned me on to this method.
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After mixing it with some cheap ML syringes I apply it with a gray one inch wide, that's what I normally use but I ran out foam brush. When that is dry to the touch without leaving barely a fingerprint I mix up and do another coat and so on up to three coats maybe four on Wenge. After that is dry for a day in proper Heat 70°. I sand it with 150 to remove the high bumps then switch to 220 and sand until I might start breaking through. When I break through I mix up another batch and brush it on and let it dry this should be coming out smoother with no pin holes or grain depth showing, shiny spots. After that is all said and done I sand it down with 320 then I spray with another gloss epoxy which goes on a lot smoother. I don't know the name of that one right now but any glossy proxy spray on for work. The nice sandwich 320 to 400 Grit to make it all nice and slick don't see any shiny spots like grain marks or pin holes. Then I spray my final finish, most of the time I use Helmsman indoor outdoor Spar Varnish your thing in satin. Because anybody that has one of my bows if they scratch it they can touch it up with that spray finish. JF
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I do not put it on the glass. No need for that. That will get clear coated in the end.
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I do work my syringes so I can reuse those for the next 3 to 4 coats all the same day
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Mark not work stupid voice
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This bow was finished with the same process.
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And this bow,but in gloss epoxy.
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Another pic
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All my pictures are coming out upside down sideways. Wow. I haven't had this issue before. Possible new stupid smart phone. Samsung 24?
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Samsung Galaxy 24
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Richard here. The epoxy step is just my normal routine in making bows. It takes a little extra time but the results more than worth it.
I always sand the risers to 600 grit, then Scotchbrite pads, and finally OOOO steel wool. I wear a headband magnifier and a bright light to carefully search for any scratches and repair them. Then I use compressed air to blow off any particles. I've always used MAS epoxy in building wooden boats, so that's what I use for my bows. FOLLOW ALL DIRECTIONS! I usually use the calibrated pumps, but when coating risers, I always measure out the proper amount in a small, plastic one ounce medicine cup with calibrations(Amazon)... 2 parts resin plus 1 part hardener. I mark the proper amounts with a fine point Sharpie on the cup, add the epoxy and mix thoroughly. I hold the cup in front of a heat source while mixing, but not too long! Apply with a disposable 1" foam brush (Jenn brand on Ebay) Work quickly, covering all wood areas, but don't worry if you get some on the glass...you can always sand it off. DO NOT PUT THE RISER IN FRONT OF A HEAT SOURCE!! The wood will out-gas and bubbles will occur. Throw out the brush and cup...they are cheap. I found that in my shop, the epoxy will start to cure in ABOUT 45-50+ minutes, but check it frequently by gently touching it (in the fade out area)...you want it to feel like sticky masking tape. Then repeat the application of epoxy. I always apply 4 coats...sometimes 5 just to be sure. If you put on wood grip overlays, coat those also. I always set the bow aside for several days before sanding, to let the epoxy cure. Then sand but DO NOT SAND THROUGH THE EPOXY!! You probably will anyway...if you do, slop a few more coats of epoxy on and be more careful next time. (Photo tutorial to follow shortly)
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All my pictures are coming out upside down sideways. Wow. I haven't had this issue before. Possible new stupid smart phone. Samsung 24?
I just got a 24 and it does it. Previously an S10 and same thing. I use this resizer to make pictures acceptable to forums. But, pictures that look upright in the Gallery will show that they are sideways or upside down in the resizer. You can quickly and easily rotate, crop and resize in this app.
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Jeff I remember you talking about the mas epoxy a while ago but never tried it-I have been using this and it fills exceptionally well! Luthiers use it as well. Hec I could probably finish the entire bow with it:) I apply it using a French polish and for most wood only takes a couple coats
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Not sure what happened- I’ll try posting pic again but if it doesn’t work it’s the Zap finishing resin
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You guys are sure going to a lot of work just to get a smooth finish. Most woods can be filled easily with a spray lacquer or brushing lacquer and can be sanded fairly quickly.
You can also mix a little acetone with smooth on epoxy to fill deep pores. but that needs an over night dry time. Kirk
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Lacquer isn't stable, especially over wood. Lacquer especially wasn't good on cars I learned that over 38 years of auto body repair and restoration.
Well I’ve been using it for a sanding sealer on bows since 2007 and it’s held up wonderfully….. but… using a good clear coat over it is the key. Lacquer by itself is ok for interior wood trim, not exterior stuff, but conversion varnish is better. Lacquer has its place. Great sanding sealer.
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Well Jeff... If you can't sleep at night using a lacquer sanding sealer, by all means don't use the stuff. But telling people it's too unstable to use like that is ridiculous. Actually it's a bogus statement.
I just told you i've been using it for 15 years on bows now without a single issue. Even Thunderbird sells the lacquer sanding sealer as a base for their epoxy clear coat....
BUT.... realistically... filling deep pores with lacquer isn't the best solution because it shrinks a bit. You need to do several applications and let it cure out a bit longer. Even then, you may need a leveling coat of high gloss high solids material and some sanding to get it filled completely. Deep slotted grain like wenge needs a high solids material to fill it properly that doesn't shrink.
A couple wet coats of high gloss auto clear coat will typically do the trick.... Kirk
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What ever boss man
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I found a product here that might be the ticket for Wenge.
https://www.dur-a-flex.com/products/poly-thane-2-high-solids/