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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: chefrvitale on January 18, 2025, 04:21:41 PM

Title: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: chefrvitale on January 18, 2025, 04:21:41 PM
Hi guys, I am hoping one of you can point me in the right direction. I have fabricated 2 different pattern sanders, and purchased a robo sander with guide bearing...... im not happy with any of it.
I have a good budget for the right machine, but I have not come across anything. Does anyone know of a good sander for riser templates?
I have not found a solution that is faster or easier than doing it free hand on my edge sander.
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 18, 2025, 05:12:34 PM
I don't think anyone offers what you need l hade mine done buy a machinist years ago. Onthe drive drum of my Grizzly edge sander.
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Kirkll on January 19, 2025, 07:26:23 PM
I believe Stic is right... if you have a large edge sander like a 6X80 , building a guide and a table on the motor end is the way to go. I too had a machinist fit a large bearing on my motor shaft that was set up for 36-40 grit sand paper thickness.....  But... i've seen some guys build a fixed guide on a piece of aluminum or steel they used for a table. I believe these would work well too.

Before i got this pattern sander set up, i tried using a large router that i set up on a work bench that i used very large 1.5" straight cutters with a bearing. Then i tried a very expensive spiral catters too....

Did it work? Yes.... But First ..... It's very dangerous running materials through large cutters free hand. Secondly you have to deal with tear out, and climb feeding is not an option freehand.   So hopefully you will save yourself going though that experiment.... The pattern sander is the way to go.   Kirk
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: chefrvitale on January 19, 2025, 07:42:12 PM
Thanks guys, kinda had a feeling that was the case.
I almost tried a shaper with a flush trim router bit...... but after a few warnings from you guys and physically turning it on and assessing the risk/reward of that shaper, I walked away from that idea. I appreciate the feedback.
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 19, 2025, 09:41:51 PM
If you use a 6x80 the drive drum needs to be turned flat except for an inch on each end. And build your jigs so your work is on the flat part.
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 19, 2025, 09:46:09 PM
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: willi on January 20, 2025, 11:02:35 AM
If you use a 6x80 the drive drum needs to be turned flat except for an inch on each end. And build your jigs so your work is on the flat part.

does the bearing need to be the same OD as the drum?

I was considering this mod, but my 6x80 is an old one and will require an end table and possibly some other work on the tensioner and and belt adjuster.
 
When you flattened your drum, did the adjuster work better or worse?  my adjuster is already is flakey and finicky.
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 20, 2025, 11:41:50 AM
Mine is a 6x80 grizzly. For my table I used 3/8s flat steel . Could have use alum. I had a lock collar bearing on the motor shaft with a drive wheel machined to fit the bearing. The wheel was .090 smaller than the drum with 60 grit paper on it. If I had it to do over would use a rub collar not a guide wheel. For the tracking I used black electrical tape and wrapped it with a noticeable bulge in the center. So no tracking problems.
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: willi on January 20, 2025, 12:23:21 PM
Mine is a 6x80 grizzly. For my table I used 3/8s flat steel . Could have use alum. I had a lock collar bearing on the motor shaft with a drive wheel machined to fit the bearing. The wheel was .090 smaller than the drum with 60 grit paper on it. If I had it to do over would use a rub collar not a guide wheel. For the tracking I used black electrical tape and wrapped it with a noticeable bulge in the center. So no tracking problems.

You adjust the belt tracking by building up electrical tape on one of the drums? which one?
(my idler drum has an off center hole drilled in its axis with an adjuster for tracking. maybe thats not how they do it any more)
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 20, 2025, 12:30:08 PM
The sander has tracking adjustment. The tape was used to build up the center part of the idler wheel for better tracking.
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: willi on January 20, 2025, 12:35:03 PM
The sander has tracking adjustment. The tape was used to build up the center part of the idler wheel for better tracking.

so the tracking got worse after you flattened the drive drum and needed the tape fix?
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: willi on January 21, 2025, 09:37:06 AM
some guys build a fixed guide on a piece of aluminum or steel they used for a table. I believe these would work well too.
If I had it to do over would use a rub collar not a guide wheel.

I can visualize the "guide wheel" with a bearing on the motor shaft arrangement.
I cannot visualize "a fixed guide on a piece of aluminum" or "a rub collar" arrangement.  Can any post a better descriptions or pics?
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Mad Max on January 21, 2025, 06:20:01 PM
Here is one I did with a Ridgid oscillating sander, I only used the belt assembly and made the rest.

(https://i.imgur.com/KDuZ2R9.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/cMKl7mH.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/fFrRWNJ.jpg?2)
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: willi on January 21, 2025, 07:25:03 PM
thanx max :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 21, 2025, 08:17:54 PM
If you can PM me your cell # I can text you a drawing of my setup.
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Bryan Adolphe on January 25, 2025, 09:46:28 AM
Here is a pic of my setup works well . [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: sman on February 15, 2025, 12:48:34 PM
I have a Jet spindle sander and just had a local shop 3D print a rub collar.  So far it's working, not sure how fast it will wear out, but I designed it so there is a collar on both sides. I took the illustrator drawing to them and they created the cad dog and 3d printed for $80
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Bryan Adolphe on February 15, 2025, 02:16:43 PM
That should work well for you 👍
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Mad Max on February 15, 2025, 04:06:04 PM
It's best to use a belt sander, the longer the belt, the better it cuts.
That small Spindle sander will clog up fast.
The robo sander works but same problem with cloging
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: sman on February 15, 2025, 04:41:00 PM
I understand the clogging.  But the cost of a used edge sander and then the cost to add a bearing or rub collar vs $80 for what I got works fine for the 3 to 4 bow I build a year.  Take your time and enjoy the build.
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Watsonjay on February 15, 2025, 09:18:41 PM
I have a wen spindle and just went and bought a little piece of 2” pvc Coupler fits in the slot on the table and has clearance for spindle was going to hotglue in and cut it to 1/4”high to use 1/4” ply for pattern.
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Kirkll on February 16, 2025, 12:17:24 PM
You Will probably want some 36 grit sleeves. If you do not find them listed on Super Grits web page, call them…. I special ordered a case of them last year. So they do still make them. 

 I use mine just for riser grip shaping on my spindle sander, and even the 36 grit gets clogged up fairly quick on some wood species.

Good luck on endeavor…..   
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Watsonjay on February 16, 2025, 01:44:13 PM
Gotta do what you can with what you can afford 😁
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Mad Max on February 17, 2025, 04:42:39 PM
I understand the clogging.  But the cost of a used edge sander and then the cost to add a bearing or rub collar vs $80 for what I got works fine for the 3 to 4 bow I build a year.  Take your time and enjoy the build.


The Robo sander has a collar
 https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/tools-by-job/tools-for-sanding/robo-sander-flush-trim-sander/?msclkid=f8baea631d151aea57448dd0b1ddd3d3&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=CP%20%7C%20MF%20%7C%20BNG%20%7C%20SHOP%20%7C%20NBR%20%7C%20All%20Products&utm_term=4576373582069625&utm_content=All%20Products
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: beachbowhunter on February 18, 2025, 12:15:45 PM
I know a lot of guys don't like the Robosander, but it has worked just fine for me.  The key is to remember it is not for hogging off lots of stock. Cut close to your lines, use a low grit, take it easy and it works.
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Crooked Stic on February 18, 2025, 01:05:37 PM
Robos would be a bunch better it they had a bearing support under the roller.
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: chefrvitale on February 18, 2025, 01:45:06 PM
I hate my robo, I can free-hand on my edge sander to a traced line more accurately than my robo sands from a template.
There is too much play and sleeves are a hassle to find.
Title: Re: Anyone know of a pattern/ flush trim sander i can just buy
Post by: Kirkll on February 19, 2025, 02:00:20 PM
Gotta do what you can with what you can afford 😁

That's fine until you get disgusted wasting too much time and not getting the finished product you want. i started out fittin footed risers by hand, then tried the robo sander and a pattern once or twice tops...i personally thought that thing was worthless.

Then i got some fancy spiral trim bits and very large straight cutting trim bits i set up on a router table... Besides being dangerous as hell, the wood tear out wasn't worth the effort....

Then i tried setting up a collar on a spindle sander.  much safer, but the sleeves clogged up too quickly. Still wasn't happy... In those early days i was still using a small edge sander like this one...

I built a lot of bows with these, and wore out 2 of them before i finally went professional.

https://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-ZREB4424-Oscillating-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B003204MC2/ref=sr_1_16?crid=1ZCB3GVRL3L3I&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.-Ao0yvYX7P7xjTAbamrdt93YK63Gl9XS4xotLnarKfYXaas-u5Zj5DhiMameGcLN4L218qLJr8ldQtehI5Se6WHJLEpDjyTCx82B9azZ2V3mHefYAb6r5rfJHIE_dSE12QEe0Sr1gLRzgSpHEcIFdFIFeNtIBd99cpJ1zWS9vBvwPrB8TQLQN3TjhisAatnOJoDgluTAg_wqa8-_I2TdbOpl0qk03qpBHQrSrOwPrKYVXqsRp9qvqJmfTGpIaM08fbYCCBYabHvzFOEgKzkRqjrZNrKeJ3-vjdAmSCKt856kkRBMcX5BWc4PDE6tXGEhsY4SZL0RLDNc3HZ_itd8AOHnwhxrR0f9Ls-bipgwBwYuIsfNDC_wsEBoT1EFBpZvBGMhDJeFrg0Z_pRZgO5j-GVHnBWN0pszjkXU2UvLowN0RgQ26Kbly0UZyG1rflH-.eNop9pksbMiC92KrIhV8ZENYf-d34O-9eTDzljs-22M&dib_tag=se&keywords=Ridged+edge+sander&qid=1739990775&sprefix=ridgid+edge+sander%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-16

The purchase of a 6X80 edge sander will take your bow making to another level.... HUGE difference.  I bought a used one to get started and after a year I ordered a new one, and set up a pattern bearing and table on one end.... Absolute game changer using the edge sander for patterns. 36 grit belts will easily shape anything you can throw at em and the fits are excellent once you have your patterns dialed in.

But the absolute best addition to the shop was getting rid of my old drill press and getting the 18" vertical mill. The sky is the limit once you get that machine dialed in.

It all takes time to acquire your shop machinery.... but i would put the large edge sander on top of my list right after the drum sander.... Those two are the most used tools in the shop.