Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Curveman on July 11, 2008, 01:28:00 PM
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I have a Lone Wolf Alpha Elite stand. Anyone have any experience with the "regular" sticks versus the minis and can advise?
Thanks
Steve
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I am not aware of "mini's. I have been using what I THINK are regular sticks for several years now (three steps each , maybe 24" long).
I have several.... make that numerous.. ways to get up in trees. They have all been sitting in the shed since I got the sticks. They take just a little practice to employ quietly, but once you have a technique down (slow.. easy does it is the major ingredient) I can go up a tree probably as fast or faster than a climber, start to finish and definately quieter.
I think they are the cat's meow. I feel safe using them. They are easy to carry. But they are not cheap.
I have 4 sticks and use either 3 or 4 when setting up a stand.
ChuckC
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I only use three regular sticks. I can drop my stand, take the sticks off, hook the stand to my rope, then climb the tree with three sticks, then hang by stand in under 10 minutes. That is without rushing anything. I believe that I would like to carry one mini just to get get a little higher.
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The most obvious difference would be how high you could climb assuming you use the same # of sticks. The mini's have two steps versus three on the regular. Distance between the steps is 15" for both. It's a personnal choice, carry less sticks but weigh a little more, or carry more sticks that may weigh about the same for the same height. A combination of sticks may work for you. It's a choice you'll have to make. I use 4 regular sticks and have for years and that has worked fine for me.
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You don't need the mini - Make a loop of good, strong rope and place it around the bottom 'V' bracket before strapping to the tree to get extra height. I usually just use it on the bottom stick.
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I just started using the regular sticks last year and I will not use anything else. these are defanately the way to go.
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SCOTT.....thanks for the great idea :thumbsup:
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You're welcome John!
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Regular sticks are awesome - quietest, fastest and most versatile method I've used - I highly recommend them!
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the sticks are nice but check out the ameristep rapid rails, extremely light and a little more secure. just a thought.
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Like others here,,I have used the regular sticks for several years now and love them. But last year I bought a set of the "mini's" and use a combination of 2-mini's and 2-regulars.
I hang both the mini's while standing on the ground then hang the regulars as I go up. This gets me about 15-16ft up. I use to hunt higher but also like others,I have lowered my stand height over the last couple years.
But you want to talk "light & mobile" The set of mini's strapped onto a windwalker stand is a great combination!!
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I'm with Ryan. I've used lone wolf sticks for several years then last year I got a set of rapid rails to use with the tree saddle. Now I only use the lone wolfs' where I hang a stand and leave it for a while. Love the rapid rails much more.
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4 full size climbing sticks weigh 5 lbs less than teh ameristep steps. The ameristep steps look very nice as well. I would be hesitant to give up my lone wolf sticks though.
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Can't imagine anything quieter or more steathy than LW. 6-7 minutes I am up 16 feet with a new set-up every sit. . . others systems look too bulky to me. Sticks fit on ethafoam blocks on my stand. Turkey vest with all stuff organized, stand on back and my bow in hand. . . always ready to hunt and keep moving as necessary. Heavier cold weather jacket bungees on the stand for carry in.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/danrudman/fullfoldedLWtreestand.jpg)
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Dan,
I've been using the combo for years, but never thought about attaching them like that. Do you have a "side view" pic showing the foam blocks better and how the two sticks are nested? I love seeing something new and attaching 4 sticks to the stand for carry has always been an issue.
Thanks,
Joe
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You can easily attach as many as you want. I also modify the sticks:
1) attach one end of the strap to the vers-button with a zip-tie
2) felt on buckles and sticks where the buckle could bump the stick.
3) file the teeth on the v-bracket so they do not scrape.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/danrudman/102-0224_IMG.jpg)
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Dan,
Thanks for the pic and the explanation.
Joe
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Joe,
Dont know if you've tried stack em like this but it makes things easier to carry.....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/yohon/LW.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/yohon/LW3.jpg)
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Yohon,
I see you have found a way (the only way I am aware of) to get around the buckle noise too!
I am stacking 4 sticks just like that right now.
I am working on a way that I can pull them off one at a time going up the tree without taking the whole assembly off my back.
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steve.. what buckle noise ?
ChuckC
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My buckles ALWAYS find a way to clunk something no matter how careful I am. Those cinch ropes work great.
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Yohon, where did you get the cinch straps for your sticks? Thanks, Jim
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do they hold as well as the straps ?
ChuckC
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You will have to search "other" archery sites for "Utility Constrictor Ropes" to find it. I don't think it would be right to post a link here.
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Steve O...I got them late this spring and carried em around while spring scouting/setting up stands and they are slick.Lightens things up and no "clunking" at dark thirty! Really lookin forward to Sept to get here but then again, arent we all ;)
I would be real interested in how you have them rigged up to carry up the tree and take em off one at a time???????
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Just curious. . . checked out the ropes. . .only problem I see is it would take two hands to tighten them down. How do you do that while trying to climb?
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Dan...don't tell me you don't use a safety harness...they give you both hands free.
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Dan...I climb with a Simmons belt and its no problem that way but the rope itself is so slick that yes you use 2 hands but its pretty easy to do once you get the hang of it. I have set sticks without the climbing belt but its alot easier and safer with the belt.
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Yohon. I have not got it figured it completely out just yet, still working out details. I will try to remember to PM you with the final details.
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UCR's...
Hey guys, this is ZA206, the creator ofthe UCR's. If you have any questions about the UCR's please feel free to e-mail me at [email protected]
They do take two hands, but it's very very easy once you get the hang of it. You can actually put them up faster than the cam buckle straps b/c there is no "top" or "bottom" to them and no strap to get twisted and caught in the cambuckle. They are 4 oz lighter than the stock LW Cambuckle straps and about 6" longer (for my "standard" 6 foot UCR). I can make custom ones as long as you want. They work with the LW sticks, the Gorilla knock off sticks, the Summit Bucksteps and the Rapid Rails. If your climbing sticks use J-hooks on the end of the strap, the loop end of a UCR will slip into the J-hook, no problem.
They are $10 each (6 ft, loop to loop). If you want longer ones, I charge $.50 per extra foot. Shipping/handling is a flat rate $6 (USPS Priority mail).
I'm not on tradgang much, so if you want a quick response, it's best to e-mail me.
I'm happy that current owners of UCR's are happy with them!
Good luck this season guys, and I hope you all get the "biggun" you are chasing!
-ZA
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I even have a disabling inner ear vertigo disease- so it is essential I am careful. Using the harness on the way up has always seemed far more dangerous to me as you have to keep moving it and using your two hands to get it around limbs etc. Besides that, all your wt. is leaning "out" against it. It is always cumbersome and far more awkward than the system I developed.
Of couse, I am 6'4' and have arms like a monkey, but I bear hug the tree with one arm as I climb and set the sticks. I can do the whole thing with one arm, one time up. Seems safer than a ladder at home. Once I am at top (third stick set) - I attach my harness to the tree- then step up to top step, pull stand off my back and set it. I step on the stand, adjust harness a little higher on the tree and pull up the bow.
Getting down is the reverse; I detach the harness only after the stand is on my back and I am down on the second stick.
It sure seems safer than depending on the equip. and the in-between times where you are screwing around with the harness between limbs and such. I am not sure how you could do all that in addition to using two hands on ropes. Seems far more awkward and dangerous to me. I like hugging the tree against my legs and torso- if the stick broke away (equip failure) I would simply hang on to the tree-then slide down a few feet. Can't see how I would fall.
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Dan:
As a treestand safety instructor, please don't leave the ground without being attached to the tree. 83% of all treestand related falls are from entering or leaving the stand.
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Those rope things are a great idea! Thats the one part of the LW system I don't like (strap buckles), as it's always banging on something no matter how I strap it on my stand. I may have to look into those closer.
And for those that don't use a safety harness of some kind, please find one that you will use! You're all too nice of people to be lost from a lapse of judgement or accident. Safty straps are not harnesses, and can do more damage in a fall than good! I had a couple that I couldn't stand until I got a HSS harness, now it's the first thing I put on after the camo - 4 clicks and I'm done!
Great things to learn on this forum!
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ZA206
Clemson Tiger Fan
"Bowtech" and "Black Widow Groupie"
I sold my bowtech wheels
?????????
:confused: :confused: :confused:
just wondering flip floping ? how dose that work ?
Carl
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ZA206,
With your custom ropes, you have solved my biggest concern with my Lone Wolf sticks.
I've always loved my Rapid Rails with constrictor ropes. Can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to a set of these for my LW sticks. The best pack in stand/sticks just got lots better.
Email sent.
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I'm not sure what you are reffering to... I own both a Bowtech and a Black Widow. I love shooting both of them. :D
-ZA
Originally posted by BrokenArrow1:
ZA206
Clemson Tiger Fan
"Bowtech" and "Black Widow Groupie"
I sold my bowtech wheels
?????????
:confused: :confused: :confused:
just wondering flip floping ? how dose that work ?
Carl
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Dan,
I am with you on the harness. Tried everything but still believe I am safer climbing without a harness in the way.
What do you do with the foam once you get to your tree?
Dave
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I haven't used a hang on stand in years........what size trees are you guys able to attach these to? I've enjoyed using my climber for several years, just thinking that a hang on might allow hunting that one tree that a climber won't work on.
Thanks...
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My system for what its worth. . .
-Foam goes on the ground, usually throw some leaves over top ( I do wash them a few times each season).
-Belts on sticks are undone and make no noise with buckles and sticks felted
-stand goes back on my back
- I wear a supreme turkey vest which has easy access to snippers, saw etc. ( I do not use a pack-too cumbersome)
-one stick (stick #3) is just set up on a limb within reach
-attach stick #1 while on ground (sometimes I will have two screw-in steps first if extra height is needed)
-step on first step of stick #1 and leaning into the tree, attach stick #2
-step up on first step of stick #2
-grab stick #3 off the limb and again lean into the tree and attach
-step up on first step of Stick #3
-attach climbing rope to the tree above stick #3 (the rope is attached to the front of climbing harness or rope swiss seat [the cheapest and easy way to go])
- Climb up to top of stick #3
-re-adjust safety rope higher
-pull stand from back and attach it
- step up on stand
-re-adjust safety rope
-pull up bow
- Under ten minutes I am hunting- no noise and fresh stand. I have set up within 50 yds of deer. All the biggest deer I have encountered have been first time sits!
-I do this everytime in and out. Often AM and PM are different sets. Rarely hunt the same tree twice unless it is a few weeks apart or the funnel is just rut-crazy.
-I have one stand and a set of sticks. I can also change trees quickly if wind changes or rut activity dictates.
I am going to try a TrophyLine seat this year. Maybe even lighter!
Hope that helps. . .
Good hunting
Dan
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Oh yea- Chris, you asked about tree size. I do not like too big of trees as my elbow hits the trunk when I attempt to draw. I suppose the biggest is 18-24" dia. Those are even rare for me though.
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Pics of lw sticks with felt. Buckles are zip-tied close to the stick. I cut a pattern out for the buckles so the felt does not impair their function.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/danrudman/102-0226_IMG.jpg)
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Rapid Rails, only way to fly !! Scott, great idea !
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Patrick,
I was referring to shooting a compound and then shooting a traditional, I tried that it didn't work for me, so I totally sold all my compound stuff. But if it works out for you, it's all right I guess.
That's all I was asking.
It just made it difficult for me, more so the weight of the Bowtech, with all the gizmos, I just got to use to shooting traditional, a stick and an arrow. But whatever it takes, it's all about the fun, and when you quit haven't fun, the better quit altogether.
Carl
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I enjoy it all brother! :thumbsup:
I'm not 100% confident in my abilities with the Widow yet (part time trad shooter = not so hot a shot yet!) to go hunting. However, I love shooting it when I have the time. I'm currently in the process of re-working my arrows for it (gotta find the right spine/head weight/lenght combo), then I'll eb all set.
It does make me a MUCH better shot with the compound, so practicing with it is like "doubling up". I'm prepping for my Sept. elk hunt and I want my compound abilities to be razor sharp before I go. Hopefully, by that point, I'll have gotten my recurve abilities up to a level I can hunt deer with it here in NC. I have the perfect treestand to use the Widow out of.
-ZA
Originally posted by BrokenArrow1:
Patrick,
I was referring to shooting a compound and then shooting a traditional, I tried that it didn't work for me, so I totally sold all my compound stuff. But if it works out for you, it's all right I guess.
That's all I was asking.
It just made it difficult for me, more so the weight of the Bowtech, with all the gizmos, I just got to use to shooting traditional, a stick and an arrow. But whatever it takes, it's all about the fun, and when you quit haven't fun, the better quit altogether.
Carl
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I have been using the system for a few years now and love them. The one down side is there method of straping them together can be a little bit of a pain. Instead of there straps are rubber strap. Works great.
Shoot them straight!
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Dan,
I like that system. My biggest problem with it is there are no limbs for the 3rd stick. I end up climbing the tree several times to get set.
Where do you get the ethafoam? I may have to try that.
Dave
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I tried using 4 sticks but it had too much leverage stacked in line so I only use 3. With ksdan mount the weight would be more even. ksdan, how are the blocks mounted to the stand? I would like to see some close ups also. Thanks
Terry
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Dave- When no limbs I hang stick #3 by its strap on the top step of the stick #1. I simply reach down and pull it up.
I would like to know where to get more ethafoam. I made a set from regular foam sheet insulation and covered it with pieces of self-adhesive felt- worked pretty good- but etha is the way to go.
Terry- look close at the pics. The ethafoam has a slot on the "backside" that fits on the vertical support of the LW stand. Does that make sense? I then use a bungee to hold it tight. The gap between the blocks and the stand also give me a good place to carry a light coat or vest. The whole thing is very streamlined and narrow. I am really suprised that LW company does not produce this system- it is the way to go.
Good hunting
Dan
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ZA206 - Do you have a website?
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Originally posted by Zbone:
ZA206 - Do you have a website?
No, I don't. I'll start a new thread here and post up some pictures for everyone to check out.
-ZA
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Just a bit of another twist on quieting the stands.. I just spray them with bed liner from the Auto parts store, does a great job too.
Ethafoam? Old water ski vest, garden kneeling pads, stadium seats etc.. Some are vinyl covered some are not. All are cheap.
Now if I could find a source for the black 1/4 rope.
I can find black and I can find 1/4" just not together
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This is the best way I've found to set up sticks:
Set up the first two sticks from the ground.
Carry the other two sticks on your side with the v-bracket in a rope loop. I use parachute cord tied into a 3 or 4" diameter loop. You can tie it on the sides of your safety belt (behind the linemen's hook-up) or to a Tree Saddle.
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I was asked to post pics again-closer up. I tried here- a little fuzzy but I hope it helps.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/danrudman/fullfoldedLWtreestand-1.jpg)
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Here is another. . .
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/danrudman/102-0224_IMG-1.jpg)
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Dan, where do you get the foam? I always see it in "white" or "pink", and that won't work!
(lot of great ideas on this thread, thanks all)
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Rich- everyone asks me that! I used an old ethafoam target. . . I don't see them anymore. But did make one out of the pink stuff and covered it with felt- worked pretty good. But high density ethafoam is better. I sure think there must be some place to get it or come up with something else- like a lighter wood block or something. . . Perhaps old block targets???
It would be a good product for someone to make on the side. Any other ideas anybody?
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3 Rivers is a sponsor so I think this is ok.
http://www.3riversarchery.com/product.asp?i=8065
Lawn an garden section of most stores have similar ones at similar prices
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I used that plastic foam that folks use for packaging electrical items. I cut it first as a round aerial target. I have extras so then I cut one in half as a half circle. Then I notched the flat edge for the seat stand.
Then I laid out the 3 sections I have, in a way so they fit nicely without any possibility to touch each other.
One note if you do it this way. The center notch-for placement of the middle segment is notched at less of a depth than the other 2 segments. So when I use the bungee cords, they keep tension on ALL 3 segments. This will aid in noise reduction.
All in all it took me 10 minutes to make 2 sets of foam blocks for the segments and it is totally silent to carry. I will try to get pics up on Sunday.
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Here's how I cut mine. I hope this pic isnt too big. I edited in Photobucket to the proper size for here. Notice the middle notch on top isnt as deep as the 2 outer notches. This is so the bungee cords actually hold all 3 sticks by stress.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/Osnishi/Hpim3265.jpg)
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Another pic. I will hold mine to the bottom of the stand with the bungee's once I'm at the tree
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/Osnishi/Hpim3264.jpg)
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Now you can see how the bungees hold-all 3 segments and they are quiet as can be. Hope this helps- Thanks for a great idea!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/Osnishi/Hpim3261.jpg)
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Good job Dale, that is the idea. The only thing I would add: if you made the foam a bit higher you could turn the sticks around to "face" the stand. They don't catch on twigs or anything that way. Also, my grooves are a bit smaller allowing the sticks to "wedge" into the foam. The bungees simply secure them.
Even with what you did, you will still be pleased I suspect.
Good Hunting
Dan
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Thanks Dan! It was a good idea~(8o)
There is also room for a jacket or small pack between the sticks and the stand itself.
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OK, since I couldn't get the Great Northern guys to make longer straps, I have gone in a different direction and other than a little hockey tape so I put things in the right place every time, I now have my system to get up the tree without taking the stand/steps off my back and it is secure and silent...but you MUST wear a linemans rope to do it!
Get one of these:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/osminski/P8040207.jpg)
Put your first stick on and wrap the smallest loop around the sick and stand near the seat like this:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/osminski/P8040205.jpg)
Put the next stick on and wrap both steps with the next slightly larger loop again around the sticks and stand:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/osminski/P8040206.jpg)
Then put the next two steps on and connect the tag ends from the two smaller loops around all 4 sticks and the grating of the stand.
You end up with a sturdy quiet package like this:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/osminski/P8040204.jpg)
When you get to the stand site, unclip the middle buckle and hang the first two sticks from the ground. Climb up, unclip the bottom buckle (the top buckle is still holding on the last stick to the stand) and install your third stick. This leaves the last top buckle to unclip and install the top stick.
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In my arsenal, I only keep Rapid Rails. Good luck !
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Hhhhhmmmmmmmmm :thumbsup:
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That's awesome Steve O!
How are you liking those UCR's?
:notworthy:
-ZA
Originally posted by Steve O:
OK, since I couldn't get the Great Northern guys to make longer straps, I have gone in a different direction and other than a little hockey tape so I put things in the right place every time, I now have my system to get up the tree without taking the stand/steps off my back and it is secure and silent...but you MUST wear a linemans rope to do it!
Get one of these:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/osminski/P8040207.jpg)
Put your first stick on and wrap the smallest loop around the sick and stand near the seat like this:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/osminski/P8040205.jpg)
Put the next stick on and wrap both steps with the next slightly larger loop again around the sticks and stand:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/osminski/P8040206.jpg)
Then put the next two steps on and connect the tag ends from the two smaller loops around all 4 sticks and the grating of the stand.
You end up with a sturdy quiet package like this:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/osminski/P8040204.jpg)
When you get to the stand site, unclip the middle buckle and hang the first two sticks from the ground. Climb up, unclip the bottom buckle (the top buckle is still holding on the last stick to the stand) and install your third stick. This leaves the last top buckle to unclip and install the top stick.
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I like the UCR's very well...
I have replaced one of my two stand straps with them as well, just haven't had enough field time on them to change both of them yet; I am sure that will be coming.
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Yo Steve O....
If you wanna make the LW Alpha more comfortable, replace the original foam pad with a small Gorilla stand pad. It fits almost perfect and is 1000% more comfortable! They sell them online at Bass Pro for like $15
I've totally given up on the cam buckle straps... I actually find the UCR's, with practice are quicker and easier than the cam buckles.
Now all I gotta do is start making my new climbing sticks (I designed the UCR's for them b/c I hated every other attachment concept on the market). If you thought the UCR's were nice and an upgrade to the cambuckles, my sticks are are 10X cooler and more useful than the LW sticks & blow everything else on the market out of the water..... I just gotta decide if I want to sell the design or jump off the bridge and start trying to do them myself.
-ZA
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ZA06,
1. I would be happy to test a set of your sticks for you...if you need some objective opinions :saywhat:
2. I won't buy anything Eastman sells do to the way they do business. No game tracker, no carbon express, no gorrila, no nuthin' in that family. That is one of the thick seats-it's not as bad as the original.
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Hey Steve O, where can a person buy that 3 buckle kwik strap set up. I looked on 3 rivers, but it did not have the buckles???