Post by: Maddog 66 on July 18, 2008, 03:05:00 PM
Last winter I finally pulled the trigger and ordered my first recurve. I had done quite a bit of research here and other places and ultimately decided not to follow the advice I had read and been told a dozen times or more. That was: "get a relatively low poundage bow so you can develop proper form....then get something a little beefier".
Well, I'm a big guy and have been shooting a 70+ pound compound bow for years and I honestly believed that by going down to 54#, I'd have absolutely no problems. I was wrong.
Call it arrogance, call it foolish pride, call it whatever you want but the bottom line is that I've shot it a ton this summer and I'm just not improving much. I'm at the point now where I'm seriously thinking about not hunting with the recurve this year unless I can dramatically shrink my groups....which I don't think is going to happen any time soon with my current setup. I'm sure this is because my practice sessions, after about the 10th arrow, go to hell in a handbasket because I start to get tired and what what few good habits I have been able to develop backslide. I'm simply over-bowed for a beginner.
So here is my question(s):
1. Would you recommend that I just pony up for a new set of limbs at something around 35# then go back to my 54# limbs later?
2. Buy a MUCH less expensive bow in that same weight range to practice with for awhile?
3. Keep working with what I have now in the hope that I can get better over the next year.
Thanks Much!!!
Post by: pdk25 on July 18, 2008, 03:10:00 PM
Post by: JDice on July 18, 2008, 03:14:00 PM
Is there a pro shop in your area - that has expertise in traditional bows? If so - take your equipment and go talk to them.
On getting a lighter bow (or limbs) - it is important to realize that might well mean a new set of arrows - properly setup for the new bow/limbs.
Post by: Killdeer on July 18, 2008, 03:14:00 PM
Find a 45 pounder and see if you can live with it comfortably. If not, then drop poundage until you can. Form is of utmost importance right now.
Killdeer
Post by: Shawn Leonard on July 18, 2008, 03:20:00 PM
Post by: SCATTERSHOT on July 18, 2008, 03:21:00 PM
Good luck!
Post by: Molson on July 18, 2008, 03:22:00 PM
Video yourself or have someone who knows watch to make sure you are actually drawing the bow correctly with the back. You may find the issue is more in your form, particularly if you're using your arms to draw and hold, than in the weight of the bow.
Post by: Junction hunter on July 18, 2008, 03:38:00 PM
It takes time to get good enough to hunt with recurve. Don't be to hard on yourself. Keep practicing if you're not ready by fall keep practicing. If you're not confident that you can get a clean kill, it becomes an ethical question.
Only been shooting recurve 4 years. Hate to admit it but I took out the compound for the first 2 years because I wasn't confident enough with the recurve. Last 2 years I left the compound in the case.
Post by: Dartwick on July 18, 2008, 03:51:00 PM
Its probably more that you are used to the compound than it is that you are seriously over bowed.
You might want to look into some excercise and stretching. But dont go wild there is nothing worse than tearing a muscle which prevents you from doing what you were training for.
Post by: fyrfyter43 on July 18, 2008, 04:00:00 PM
Post by: OkKeith on July 18, 2008, 04:03:00 PM
I had to modify their practice method. With a compound you can shoot arrow after arrow without getting too fatigued. How many arrows in your pocket, and how crowded the bullseye gets are the limiting factor. Not so with trad. gear. I only shoot 3 or 4 arrows, then go have a look at the target. I take a close look. Are all the arrows in a good group, are all the arrows straight into the target? These things can tell you a lot about your release and such. Taking the time to look at these things gives your back and arms a rest. I pull the arrows, take a swig of water, put all the arrows back in my belt quiver, then return to where I am shooting from. Shoot 3 or 4 more arrows and repeat the process.
Just standing there and shooting arrow after arrow wears you out, and honestly I can't maintain the level of concentration needed for good shots through a dozen arrows. Like I said, 3 or 4 at a time is my limit. When you shoot with another archer, it puts even more time between each shot effort, helping even more.
Ya might give this a try before getting new limbs or a new bow. If it don't work you always have those options.
Were it me, and the additional limbs at around 45# were available, I would go that direction.
Good Luck!
OkKeith
Post by: jared s on July 18, 2008, 04:04:00 PM
Maybe start out with two or three times because as mentioned, dont want to pull anything right away.
Post by: jared s on July 18, 2008, 04:04:00 PM
Post by: Maddog 66 on July 18, 2008, 05:09:00 PM
First, I won't hunt with the bow until I'm confident out to 20 yards....even if that means leaving it in the case this season.
My first 10 or so arrows during a practice session are, quite honestly, a bit of a crap shoot. At this point, nothing is very "automatic" for me yet. I have to concentrate on the spot, my draw, my anchor, my release....you get the picture. Probably the same things everyone goes through at the start.
To my knowledge, there isn't a traditional shop around here (Appleton) but the point is well taken about finding a mentor. I know there are a few guys at my local archery range who shoot traditional but I don't know them or see them very often. I'll have to change that. I've always been kind of a DIY guy but this might not be the ideal situation for that huh?
I agree that 54# isn't much weight but having just started at this I can say that it sure SEEMS heavier than that.
For what it's worth, I spent quite a bit of time bare-shaft tuning my arrows and working on FOC. When I do things relatively right (at least in my mind), they fly very well.
Post by: Gator1 on July 18, 2008, 05:20:00 PM
Post by: buckster on July 18, 2008, 05:27:00 PM
It is the best money I ever spent. I am still not a great shot, but I am much better and have a repeatable form on most days. I can comfortably hit my intended target out to 20-25 yards fairly consistently.
Post by: JDice on July 18, 2008, 05:56:00 PM
Post by: amar911 on July 18, 2008, 06:13:00 PM
Post by: Greg Szalewski on July 18, 2008, 07:10:00 PM
Post by: SteveB on July 18, 2008, 07:19:00 PM
Yes you can 'work up" to shooting a bow you are overbowed for. Might work in time or might become an exersize in frustration.
Or you could get an inexpensive bow in the 35 to 40 lb range and learn to shoot much quicker while developing the strength needed to go higher with control and form.
Steve
Post by: longbowhntr on July 18, 2008, 07:34:00 PM
Quick question, sir. You say it is 54#. Is that what the bow is marked at 28 inches or is that the actual weight at your draw length? You probably know this but if it 54#@28" and your pulling farther than 28" you are pulling more weight than 54#.
Good luck sir!!
David
Post by: Orion on July 18, 2008, 08:05:00 PM
Post by: TonyW on July 18, 2008, 09:09:00 PM
Don't worry about 20 yards, try 8 yards. Shoot four arrows, relax, walk to the target. The groups will get closer, and you will start to shoot farther. I really don't think there is a formula that fits everybody, but if you enjoy flinging arrows, the groups will tighten.
Post by: Daddy Bear on July 18, 2008, 09:34:00 PM
I will say that a slightly closed stance greatly helped my daughter as this enabled her to get more back muscles into the draw.
later,
Daddy Bear
Post by: Bonebuster on July 18, 2008, 10:09:00 PM
Being a big guy, you are probably drawing more than 28 inches, and thus more than 54lbs.
If you have not already, try getting close to the target, and shoot only ONE arrow at a time. Shoot at a VERY small target. Like maybe a 1/4" black dot in a paper plate, at say, four yards.
If you are trying to shoot instinctively, your concentration level MUST be EXTREME. It is just as
important as form in my opinion. It is also more difficult to learn than good form, in my opinion.
Shooting at a tiny dot may help.
If you see all your shots are hitting near the black dot,... back up a step. And so on.
If you find that it is hard to hit near the dot from up close with any regularity, then you may indeed be overbowed.
I just did this excersize with my son, as he was suddenly having a hard time hitting consistently.
After watching him shoot, it was obvious it was not his form. After a few days, his shooting improved greatly.
Whenever I begin to see my groups spread, I step up close for a few shots, and it always seems to help.
If you are experiencing discomfort when you shoot, or soreness after you shoot, then draw weight probably is a problem. The good news is, forty pounds of draw weight, and a four hundred grain arrow is good medicine for whitetails.
I urge you to not get discouraged. Sometimes the hill gets steep, but you can`t beat the view when you get to the top.
Don`t be surprised if twenty yards turns out to ALWAYS be a long shot. Targets don`t move and duck. I can hammer targets out to and beyond twenty yards, but I rarely release an arrow at that range.
Regardless of how good of a shot you become, or how fast you learn to shoot well, your new recurve will teach you to be a better HUNTER quicker.
Try not to be discouraged... never give up.
Post by: George D. Stout on July 18, 2008, 10:10:00 PM
Post by: Jedimaster on July 18, 2008, 10:20:00 PM
Post by: hvyhitter on July 19, 2008, 07:56:00 PM
Post by: SteveB on July 19, 2008, 09:08:00 PM
Quote
Going from 70 to 54 isnt all that much of a stretch.With a 70 pd compound, you hold back 14 to 25 lbs.
HUGH difference between that and 54 (or more with longer draw).
Steve
Post by: wihill on July 19, 2008, 10:23:00 PM
I just joined up not too long ago, and though that switching from my binary cammed 70+#er to a 50# recurve would be a piece of cake - boy was I wrong.
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I have no problems pulling it back, but holding it comfortably to get set into the shot (which I do for my compounds) just wasn't working. I tried for a week, slowly working up in reps, but I found that I tired quickly and form went to crap in a hurry. Lost three aluminums, a few pieces of wood in the backstop and brought some laughs from the neighbors.
I went with your option 2, as my 50# recurve is a single piece, not a takedown. If I had a takedown, I'd just have gotten new limbs - I'd hate to relearn my grip on the riser once I went up in poundage.
My new (to me) one is a 40# Takedown, with additional limbs availible for very reasonable money. With a 450gr arrow I hope to be profiencent enough this fall to go hunting, but like yourself, I need to get comfortable at 20yrds first.
Have fun with it!
Post by: Steelhead on July 20, 2008, 12:34:00 AM
A bow thats too heavy could be couterproductive in the initial learning stage.It could create bad habits and ingrain poor muscle memory thats harder to overcome.Things like short drawing,snap shooting,loss of back tension,a claw like drawing hand,inability to focus, etc.
The 1st year season I hunted trad I only was going to shoot out to 15 yards or so.By my 2nd season I was good out to 25 yards.
Thier is alot to learn and I am sure you will improve alot more quickly with a smooth easy drawing bow that allows you to work on proper shot execution.I am still working on it 15 years later.Keep after it.
Post by: GingivitisKahn on July 20, 2008, 09:34:00 AM
by G. Fred Asbell, available from 3Rivers Archery for a measly $24.99 ( http://www.3riversarchery.com/Product.asp?c=42&s=18&p=92&i=7862 ).
Volume 1 is great as well, but if I wanted to buy only one book, it would be volume 2. Follow his instructions and he'll have you shooting properly in short order.
My big question for you is - how long are you holding your recurve at full draw? As you well know, if you want to hold a bow at full draw for any length of time, that 70# compound will be *much* easier than your 54# recurve.
If you are hanging it out there for any length of time trying to get lined up on your target, you are using up your muscle resources much more quickly than you would if you get on target quickly and drop the string with as little delay as possible.
I think listening to Asbell (or a good coach, etc.) can help you get on target and drop the string much more quickly without snap shooting.
Post by: John Nail on July 20, 2008, 10:16:00 AM
If you switched from a compound to a recurve, and didn't completely change your style, I suspect that is the problem. You don't shoot them alike at all. A stickbow should be canted a little, not held straight up. You need to develope the proper draw-anchor-release sequence. Not point at the sky, draw, and lower to target.
If you shot the compound with a release, you will need to work a LOT on your hand release.
The best thing would be to get some help with it, if there's a Trad club in your area.
54 lbs AT YOUR DRAW should not be too much for a young, strong guy, after a full summer's shooting.
Post by: jimmerc on July 20, 2008, 10:51:00 AM
Post by: Jason Jelinek on July 20, 2008, 12:49:00 PM
I just read that jared s gave you the same advice. It's worked for me both right and left handed.
Jason
Post by: BMOELLER on July 20, 2008, 04:02:00 PM
Post by: Shawn Leonard on July 21, 2008, 09:20:00 AM
Post by: Maddog 66 on July 28, 2008, 04:58:00 PM
I printed out the whole string of responses and tacked it up in my "man cave" because some of them are so in-depth that I'm afraid may not understand them properly until I get through another few thousand arrows. Know what I mean?
P.S. I just printed out a membership form for the Wi Trad Archers....if they are a reflection of the group here, then I might have just found the "right" bowhunting org. for me.
Post by: Tom L on July 28, 2008, 05:25:00 PM
Post by: OsageBowyer on July 28, 2008, 07:00:00 PM
1. find a safe and soft back stop cuz arrows aint cheap.
2. find a good target I like a heavy boot box stuffed with news print and wraped in duct tape
3. with six arrows start out at 10 yrds when you can put all six in the box without fail move back 5 yrds and repeat(remember don't hold your draw for longer than it takes to find your point of aim and shoot for a spot on the target not just the box.
Good luck and don't give up...you can do it!