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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Tom Anderson on August 12, 2008, 09:29:00 PM
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I'm looking for a bow that starts its draw out "softly" and gains poundage in perhaps a non-linear manner. In other words, I don't like a lot of weight at the start of the draw.
What kind of bow design should I be looking for? Longbow? Recurve? Forward riser? Set-back riser? Takedown, One-piece, Deflex/reflex, Etc., Etc.?
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Tom-Mild R/D longbow...less preload than a hybrid or recurve, decent performance, and quiet....with minimal handshock. Great Northerns are the ones I have the most experience with....go relatively long in bow length for increased smoothness in draw.
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String follow unbraced and a D tiller longbow. Northern Mist makes a great one and some old Hills were string follow. You are giving up the early string weight part of the power curve, so you will not have a real fast bow. But this style of bow is very forgiving and easy to be accurate with.
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A long bow without reflex limbs would be your best bet. The recurve of limbs was made the lengthen the limbs as the bow was drawn to make the weight lighten up in the back end of the draw. The traditional longbow starts easier and stacks its weight at the end of the draw.
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I would second what Shaun said about a string follow bow. I have had a few and the Northern Mist Shelton(string follow design) is a very sweet shooter with a very smooth draw and very forgiving.
Besides Northern Mist you can contact Craig @ Howard Hill Archery can build a string follow design and also Nate Steen of Sunset Hill Longbows.
:campfire:
Ken
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Thanks, guys. Unfortunately I hate the looks of a string follow longbow, but perhaps I should try one anyway. I guess you can't have it all in one package, can you?
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My straight longbows come off the form with about 3/8" string follow and are very smooth. I agree about the string follow bows being very sweet shooters. How much string follow are built into the Northern Mist bows?
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A long one..with your draw length. :)
With any ilf type riser you can back off the bolts to adjust the preload and smooth things out for your long draw.
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Last year I had some friends come up from Texas to hunt, One of them had a Harrison bow, I think JC posted a picture of one he got. This one was 57# but it was really light to about halfway back, never shot anything like it before.
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No it was Danny Rowan that posted a picture of it or looked like it. Siberian Wolf or something like that.
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I've been fighting this same issue. Health problems have me down to much lighter bows, 33-38# at my 25" draw. The kicker is, some i can shoot, some i can't, depending on their power curve. I've been buying/trying a lot of different bows finding what works for me.
one thing I'm finding is that, as kshunter55 mentioned, my beloved longbows clearly tend to stack toward the end, while recurves, which I had not shot previously, tend to be a smoother draw for the same end weight, particularly vintage recurves. I guess it has to do with the compression factor of a thick narrow limb vs. a wide thin limb.
I've tried some vintage recurves and found them really comfortable, even beyond my 38#. I have a 51# at 28 (44# at my 25") Super Kodiak that I can shoot if I don't overdo it. It actually pulls much easier than a couple of 35 - 38# longbows I have.
I've also tried some really highly touted new recurves, looking for a bit more speed. However, what I'm finding is that the way the bowyers are getting that speed is to front load the power curve. This means you end up drawing more "inch pounds" before you reach weight. Won't work for my shoulder. I had a big disappointment yesterday. I got two gorgeous Predators, one a 44# that I can shoot (38 for me) and a heavier one I can't shoot. Even though I can shoot the 44, it's just not as comfortable a draw as my old Super Kodiak of the same weight.
So, what I'm finding is that it is very much a matter of how the particular bow is tillered, as well as looking just at what type of bow it is.
This reminds me a bit of sailing... years back, we all went to highly designed fin keel boats looking for speed. They're fast, but you have to work at sailing them, being in control every second. Some of us older guys started going back to old full keel designs that were slower, but much easier to sail. You could leave the tiller to go below and get a beer. I guess speed isn't everything ... :^)
For me, at this point, it looks like I'm going to spend a lot of time with the old Super Kodiaks and stop chasing the latest speed bow.
Dick in Seattle
kshunter55
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Mohawk longbows draw like that. Mine feels incredibly light for it's 57# compared to my other bows of similar weight. You're most likely to find that feel in mild R/D longbows.
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The Kempf Kwik Styk with Static Limbs pulls smooth without stack or "loaded" up front. One of the smoothest drawing bows I've ever shot.
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Dick,
Thanks for the discussion. I'll have to agree, that based on my experiences, those older bows do kinda draw like I prefer. And I entirely agree about chasing speed - been there, done that with both women and bows. :D
Joe Skipp,
Where can a see a picture of a Kempf Kwik Styk? I haven't been able to find a website that shows them.
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Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by string follow or a string follow longbow?
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nyamazan.... picture a regular long bow strung up... "D" shaped. Now picture the same bow unstrung. Most modern longbows (referring to flatbows, not reflex/deflex, are basically straight. The old ones, even unstrung, had some curve to them... as if they had been strung up with a string that was too long. Having that initial curve, as if partially drawn, right in the basic bow shape, is called string follow. I'm about to dash out the door or I'd hunt up and post a pic for you... maybe someone else has one handy...
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Got you Dick in Seattle.
Understand your explanation, and seen a couple of bows like that.Allways thought they were bows that had just taken on a bend after years of service.Didn't realize they were built like that on purpose.
Thanks.
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The easiest pulling bows are deflexed riser recurves with the the limbs mounted on the back. In effect this lowers the brace height and puts less stress on the string when braced. Drawing a bow like this starts off light and comes back buttery smooth. My check-mate firebird pulls to 30" without stacking and the bow is only 56" long. The kempf would also be a good bow to look at and seems to have a loyal following here as well. Hope this helps.
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Nyamazan...
Some have string follow from the very reason you state...being left braced for a long period. Paticularly selfbows (all wood)and some older longbows. What Apex Predator descibes is a bow
that has string follow as it comes off his forms.
Howard Hill once stated that he wouldn't shoot a bow that didn't have some string follow.
Tom I.
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My Morrison Shawnee feels exactly like what you are describing. Butter smooth. Tge
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ttt
Haven't been around for a couple of years. Any newer bows that I can try that have a "soft" draw at the beginning?
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Almost any straight-stave bow will have a tiny bit of string follow, and a low early draw weight. My new ELB (english longbow) pulls 100# @ 32", and has a low early draw weight too. While you may think it stacks badly, it doesn't. If the bow is long enough, the draw will be smooth, even with a low early draw weight.
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Tom,
I have a Vermilion River Snake (3 pc. w/longbow limbs) that I draw to 30" that pulls identical to what you described you like.
You definitely lose some performance but the only way I figured that out was to shoot a heavy r/d type longbow with this one side by side.
When I first received the bow I would have bet a bunch that he missed weight by at least 5lbs.
Dusty
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Tom, take a look at the addiction recurves that John Dill is selling now. I think you might find the best of both worlds. Not too far from you. You could go down and shoot some. Give him a call. 252 227 2114. Don
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My Northern Mist Classic pulls easy on the front of the draw and shoots great. I got to get my hands on his stringfollow (Shelton).
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Don, is John building bows now!? That boy is always up to something. I'll check 'em out.
Thanks.
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If you want to see the Quick Stick with a review, go to this site....
http://www.peteward.com/
and then click on trad reviews.
Enjoy,
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You do realize that what you are asking for is a bow that "stacks." A bow that stacks typically isn't going to be the highest performing bow design one can go with (stack relates to design, core depth, limb width, and draw). A lot of people don't realize it, but what you are asking for is not as uncommonly preferred as many may think. I personally like to have a bow with optimal performance so I like a smooth bow that loads early in the draw. Hand someone a bow that loads up early to someone that shoots a string follow self bow and they probably won't like the way the smooth bow loads up as it requires more pull early in the draw. You're not alone though, many people don't like a bow that is really "smooth" on a scale, because a truly smooth bow is one that loads up EARLY in the draw and then only gains 2-3# per inch after the initial load all the way out to full draw. Many people actually like a "soft" bow and think such bows are smooth when in fact, on a scale they stack. I suspect that the reason many people like those bows is because they are indeed easier to pull early in the draw.
If you don't like the longbow appearance, I do know of one recurve that might work well for you. It isn't a speed demon, but it is quiet, accurate, and very nice looking. It is the Great Plains B-Model one piece or Kiowa. Their other bows are quicker than the B-model recurves or Kiowa recurves. I don't believe it is the most efficient recurve design being the deflex doesn't start until you are about 1/3rd of the way down the limb. And, yes...I said deflex on purpose. By starting the deflex in the limb instead of off the riser, the reflex (which is responsible for preloading the limbs) is left to the last 1/3rd or so. As a result, some efficiency of the limb is "theoretically" reduced and I didn't find it to be a fast recurve to be honest; however, the bow is still a very good shooting bow that as I said before is quiet and accurate. Their take downs and their Swifts are completely different designs and have a more effiencent profile. All of their bows seem to be well crafted and very pleasing to look at.
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Lee,
Thanks for the insights and the recommendation on the Great Plains bows - I'll check them out.
Actually, you're right - I'm looking for a bow that stacks. Due to issues with both shoulders, I've never been really good at drawing an early-loading bow...most compounds I can't even budge! But once I get 'em going a few inches, I can pull the snot out of them...way on back, too.
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My Stringfollow Boo backed Osage smokes a550grn arrow I love it....A gift from my brother Rick in Michigan..Love ya Brother traditional all the way..With hush puppies speechless..............
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Smooth early draw has to do with the "preload" weight. Many modern speed bows have a lot of draw weight in the first few inches and then gain only 2#/in or so. Some older designs have very low early draw weight and gain closer to 3#/in.
Example: I have a Jim Brackenberry recurve that is 55# @ 28 that is very soft in the early draw. Sweet forgiving shooter but not high speed. I also own a Wes Wallace recurve that is very similar but has much more early draw weight with similar # @28. Much faster but more sensitive to form. Wes learned under Jim and the bows have nearly identical risers with different limb designs.
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I would consider a bow to stack only when it gains a dis-proportionate amount of weight towards the end of the draw. Low early draw weight in the first few inches doesn't cause a bow to stack.
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Hey Ron (Lonala).... Glad you like the bow. Better post a few pic's of the hog ya shot for all to see.
You're deadly with that thing !! :archer2:
To answer Tom's question, a string follow bow can still have early string weight yet feel really smooth if it is built properly, and still not give up much speed. The benefit is stability an easy to be consistently accurate.
Take Care.
Rick