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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: DelSnavely on January 02, 2009, 02:20:00 PM
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I live in NW ND and we regularly get - temps as a high in December and sometimes in late November. Most days with at least some wind, and many days with winds of 20-30mph or more. It get's rough out there...lol This was my first year that I really got a chance to bow hunt here since we moved back, and I need much better clothing. I wore 4 layers of clothing. One was insulated coveralls, and I wore two pairs of socks. None however were wool based.
I would like to know what your thoughts are on reasonably priced winter hunting clothes, from boots to hat. What works for you, or what would you buy?
Let's hear it.
Thanks!
Del S.
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Del,
Better get you some good wool baselayers right away. I know they are costly, but Ullfrotte' Smartwool seems to be the best out there. King of the Mountain sells it on their site. If you are going to stay warm in ND you gotta build your system from the inside out. If not, you will not be able to evaporate properly and once you get wet underneath all those layers you are done !
nocams
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None however were wool based.
There's your answer. I was in the same boat this year. I have been spending a lot of time at goodwill and other consignment stores scanning for cheap wool clothes. I got lucky this summer and picked up a scentlok top and bottom for $25 at a garage sale. I use that as an outer layer and I wear poly pro long underwear with various cheap wool clothing layers over the top. without the camo over the top I tend to look like a demented Mr. Rogers but those old sweaters I have been picking up for 5.00 or less are certainly keeping me warm enough.
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merino wool thermals, merino wool socks. work up the layers as mentioned above. a good hat is a must keep your head ward will help keep your body warm.
i recently got a Filson mackinaw cruiser jacket it is buy far the best jacket iv ever worn for cold weather.
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Go to Sportsman's Guide they have some wool hunting clothing on sale right know at a good price.
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Bill beat me to the Guide. Make sure you check out their mil-surp. My E. German pants and Brit sweater from last year kept me plenty warm with my new Polish baclava. I also have this'n that from Goodwill.
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Originally posted by NoCams:
Del,
Better get you some good wool baselayers right away. I know they are costly, but Ullfrotte' Smartwool seems to be the best out there. King of the Mountain sells it on their site. If you are going to stay warm in ND you gotta build your system from the inside out. If not, you will not be able to evaporate properly and once you get wet underneath all those layers you are done !
nocams
ulfrottee stuff is very very nice.its not cheap but its very warm.send for the catalog or brochure book and read about the wools many different kinds.but this is the foundation i would recommend anybody to build off of its just not cheap
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Del,
I have lived in MN and hunted MN and WI for the past 40 years. It is almost always in single digits or below 0 in December so I have purchased multiple pieces of King of the Mountain, Sleeping Indian and Filson. I still froze. What I do like is a heavy sweater with windstop under my KOM jacket, wool bibs/pants and the best underwear money can buy. I also wear a rabbit bomber cap and -100 Sorrels.
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one nice thing about the ulfrotte wool is it is so soft u can wear it next to the skin and they recommend that you do,plus you can wash in hot water and put in dryer or hang dry and no shrinkage.
i own a couple 200 gram sets 400 sets,acouple 600 pieces too along w/ a bunch of socks.
it has a terry cloth knit to it
i wasted alot of money till i found this stuff that works
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I lived out thier and i have a secret.Wear rain gear under your coat and pants.wind cant get through.And KOM WOOL.
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The Browning Hydro Fleece is awsome stuff.
Windproof, waterproof, and warm. It also has the sent sorb stuff inside.
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Its -6 and -22 wind chill in grand forks right know. Regular hunting gear dosent work in those condtions.
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Its been like this here lately...
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh271/chinook907/rszdthermo.jpg)
Anyway, when its really cold and I'm sitting: liner socks, wool socks, and bunny boots on my feet. Long undies of some sort top & bottom, warm fleece or wool pants and coat. And over all that a pair of Wall's BlizzardPruf coveralls; mine are dark blue. A large pullover over the coveralls of a quiet material eliminates the sound of nylon on nylon. Good luck finding a piece of clothing that does all that, without paying a lot.
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Thanks a lot guys. I know now that it's going to take wool and some sort of fleece to do the job. You can bet I won't freeze my butt of again next year.
Thanks again!
Del S.
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Guys, What type of liner socks are you using? I have very cold feet and some merino wool socks that help, but use cotton tube socks as liners. What's best? Mark
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I hear ya flatlander, and what kind of boots? I need new boots too.
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Get an outer layer of windbloc material. It can be thin. Doesn't provide the best in warmth, but since it truly kills the wind it helps a lot in your efforts to keep warm. Its also quiet which can't be said for cotton, nylon, etc.
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Can't say what socks are best but I can pretty much guarantee that cotton is the worst!
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I use capilene or polypro liner socks, its another layer and staves off blisters.
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what chinook said. When we lived in NW Wyoming a friend of mine often said "cotton kills" in the winter. I'd have to agree with him.
Vic
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You wouldnt know it reading here but it is possible to stay warm with out wool.
Wool is great stuff but many people are allergic to it and it turns out we can hunt with out freezing to death.
Go for breathable layers(synthetics are better than cotton) and have Gortex in the top layer.
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flatlander,
ditch the cotton socks for sure !!! That is your problem no doubt. Buy you the thickest wool socks you can find, bought mine at Cabelas. They were about $12 a pair I think and come up to my knee almost. I used to wear a polypro liner sock, but after experimenting I now just wear the wool right next to my skin like Ulfrotte' advises on the KOM site.
Remember wool will still insulate with up to 30 % water in it ! Guess what, your feet sure put out the water and once your cotton socks were wet you were done. Make sure your boots are large enough for thick wool socks so you have room to wiggle your toes. Too tight boots equal cold feet every time. You need a little room for friction. You will be amazed at how heavy and wet your wool is when you pull your boots off, yet your feet stayed warm.
If you are hunting everyday I hear that the best thing you can do is get you one of the PEET boot dryers. Again, we do not realize how wet our boot linings are after hunting in them and sweating them up. Hope this helps.
nocams
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For a liner, I now use a lighter weight boot sock. Just be careful that the two layers are not so thick that they restrict blood flow in your feet. Years ago I got some 100% wool socks that were about the same weight as the Burlington Gold Cups that I wear every day. They were great liners, but unfortunaely, I have not seen any like them in a long while. Does anybody know of any source for wool socks in that lighter weight?
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Sam, I used to buy the burlington wool socks at Sams club and they are all I wear summer or winter. I too would like to find more in a similar weight.
Funny thing, the first year I tried them, they were 85% lambswool and so soft it was amazing. The following fall, they had them again at Sams and the wool was down to 75%. Bought more anyway and still loved them. The next year, it was down to 40% and the socks felt the same but were not as warm in winter and they shed fuzz.
Now, I've been looking in stores at anything that looks like a wool sock and I don't know wether to laugh or cry half the time. The scenario usually goes like this....
Hmmm, socks. What do they have in this store? Oh look that pair says "WOOL SOCKS" on the wrap. Hmmm, 15.99 for one pair? Must bee good ones. Lets look at the back to see if it's the good lambs wool... What the heck!! These socks are only 15% wool! How in the He!! can they legally call these things wool socks??? Guess I'll look somewhere else.
:banghead: :banghead:
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Well, since I live in North Dakota and just completed my second year of bowhunting in the frigid North, I'll share with you what works for me when the temps really plunge.
Base: Cold Gear or silk next to the skin with merino wool long undies over that. For socks I use silk sock liners and very heavy, 100% wool socks.
Mid-layer: Fleece turtleneck with wind block and an insulated Gray Wolf Woolens vest. Pants are fleece with wind block.
Outer-layer: Filson double-Mackinaw cruiser over insulated Gray Wolf bibs.
Boots: Lacross Burley Boot with 1200 grams Thinsulate and Toasty Toes chemical foot warmers on the bottom of the socks.
Hat/Face: Silk balaklava with KOM wool bomber.
Some of the items mentioned above are pricey, but they are lifetime investments. There are some places you can find bargain prices on wool, but I would encourge you to get the best you can afford for an outerlayer. A loosely woven wool coat will not provide you the same degree of warmth retention as a tightly woven wool.
I own a bunch of wool from Filson, KOM, and Gray Wolf...all of which is heavy 22-25 oz. material and it is wonderful stuff. I also have a few items from Woolrich and Columbia. The former are the garmets that accompany me on guided hunts and local late-season hunts. The latter items I reserve for use when temps are a bit more mild.
Hope this helps...
Claudia
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The only application where cotton has anyplace for cold weather outdoor clothing is as an outermost windshell made of a very tight weave cotton canvas. This provides a very effectiv windbreak that does not absorb moisture and breathes far better than synthetic shell materials such as goretex (also much quieter).
Using cotton for any type of insulating layer is a huge no-no.
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I found a 100% merino sweater at a close out shop that was light weight. I bought it big so I could wash it and wore it as a base layer. No itch, $15 investment. after doing that, I'm keeping my eye out for "real" merino base layers because it worked so well.
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Claudia's set-up is similar to mine here in northern MI. I've sat in 5 degree temps with the following:
Silk long underwear and ultra thin poly propelene liner socks (wicks mosture from your foot).
Loose fitting wool sock and chemical foot warmer. Lacross burley 1200 boots.
Fleece turtleneck and fleece sweatshirt. Both are fairly thin, but help to build dead air space. Heavy fleece long underwear bottoms.
Gray Wolf Woolen pants. Gray wolf woolen insulated vest under a Gray Wolf Woolen lined wool pullover coat with the front pouch pocket (I keep a chemical handwarmer in there with light gloves on and hands stay warm). The vest really helps a lot to keep the core heat in, but helps cut down on arm bulk. The Gray Wolf pullover coat has a zip up collar that comes up really high on the back of the neck. Finally, I finish it off with a Gray Wolf Bomber hat that is lined with liteloft insulation.
Try to put on clothes at the stand and walk slow going in to avoid sweating. My setup was good for a 3-4 hour sit.
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Don't wear cotton socks in the winter at all. For sitting in the cold I like to use those chemical toe and hand warmers, they give you another 1/2 to 1 hour longer on stand. Also make sure you keep your knees bent less than 90 degrees. I wear my Filson Double Mac Cruiser with a wool sweater underneath and a thinner wool shirt under that. If it's a hard wind I'll wear a windbreak on the outside. I wear wool pants with some bib overalls (not wool but block the wind pretty decent and are insulated) over the top. I have 800 gram thinsulate boots and wear thinner finger wool gloves with insulated leather chopper/mittens over the top. I'll drop the chopper on the string hand when I get ready to shoot. Usually a white facemask to finish with a wool beanie underneath. Most importantly is a desire to be out there and suffer a bit in the cold and knowing when enough is enough.
Jason
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I don't wear cotton even in the early fall. Have been caught more than once in a hard driving rain at 50 degrees. Its dang cold.
Wool is great except that on wet hunts (goat in AK) its about impossible to dry. Fires just aren't really an option in Prince William Sound or on Kodiak once you get up a bit.
Artificials are best.
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Here's the "never get cold" stand outfit.
Base layer...
Under Armour cold gear
2nd base layer...
Wool Power 400
3rd base layer...
fleece union suit
1st main layer...
Cabela's Outfitter wool size XL
Top layer...
Columbia wool-snow camo XXL
Boots...
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20564-cat20574&rid=&indexId=cat20574&navAction=pu sh&masterpathid=&navCount=4&parentType=index&parentId=cat20574&id=0020833 (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20564-cat20574&rid=&indexId=cat20574&navAction=push&masterpathid=&navCount=4&parentType=index&parentId=cat20574&id=0020833)
Balaclava...
Serirus
Hat...
Mad Bomber
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Originally posted by Jason Jelinek:
Also make sure you keep your knees bent less than 90 degrees.
Excellent point Jason. That does make quite a difference for circulation to and from the feet.
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Originally posted by LKH:
I don't wear cotton even in the early fall. Have been caught more than once in a hard driving rain at 50 degrees. Its dang cold.
Wool is great except that on wet hunts (goat in AK) its about impossible to dry. Fires just aren't really an option in Prince William Sound or on Kodiak once you get up a bit.
Artificials are best.
This is a great example of how important it is to get local wisdom about the area you are about to hunt (if you are not from that area). If I were to hunt the those regions LKH had mentioned, I'd follow his recommendations to a tee.
In Manitoba, the late season climate tends to be relatively dry but quite cold. During my last 2 days of hunting the late moose season, the temp was -35 C (-32 F) with a windchill of -49 C (-56 F). Fortunately, in this area, using a woodburning stove for your shelter is possible (and quite necessary). In this climate, I've found wool to have several advantages over any of the synthetics (polypro base, polar fleece mid layers, gtx type shells) that I've tried.
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Originally posted by Mojostick:
Here's the "never get cold" stand outfit.
Base layer...
Under Armour cold gear
2nd base layer...
Wool Power 400
3rd base layer...
fleece union suit
1st main layer...
Cabela's Outfitter wool size XL
Top layer...
Columbia wool-snow camo XXL
Boots...
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20564-cat20574&rid=&indexId=cat20574&navAction=pu sh&masterpathid=&navCount=4&parentType=index&parentId=cat20574&id=0020833 (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20564-cat20574&rid=&indexId=cat20574&navAction=push&masterpathid=&navCount=4&parentType=index&parentId=cat20574&id=0020833)
Balaclava...
Serirus
Hat...
Mad Bomber
I have those same boots. They are amazingly warm and not all that heavy.
Riot
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My experience with liner socks might be of value. I picked up a pair of Wigwam liner socks and wore them under medium weight Smart Wool socks in my Muck boots. It was about 11 degrees and my feet were warm for the 6 hours I was on stand. It warmed up later that week and I skipped the liner socks and noticed my feet were colder on stand even though the temp was only about 28 degrees. Evidently, walking to my stand caused my feet to sweat just enough to make them colder. i put the liner socks on the next day and I was warm again. They are so thin one would not think they would make a real difference but they do.
Base: Sitka Celsius Base pants and top
Mid: 200 gram fleece sweat pants and 200 gram wind resistant pullover.
Outer: Sitka Celsius bibs and jacket.
If it's real cold (single digits) I might add the Sitka vest and stick a warmer pack in the bib pocket. If it gets so cold this outfit does not work I probably shouldn't be out there.
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For thousands of years man trusted on wool,from the Ymalahians, to the North Asian, North European. In the WW II the Russian Army, the German and Italian around Stalingrad survived for months at temperatures well below -40° sliping on the ground. They had only wool clothing, better than any sintetics here around. So from a good basic layer to the toop look for wool. Above those layers,that you don't need to be camos, you can wear a camo cotton staff too
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For socks I use Cabelas Cool Max winter liners under Smart Wool hunting socks; as long as you don't do something stupid, like step in water deeper than your boot is high, (yeah, like most experience I acquired that one the hard way, though you'd think it wouldn't be really hard to figure out in advance) that combination works really well.
For clothing, after trying all kinds of stuff, I'm a great believer in Sleeping Indian wool, especially over EMS Bergelene (spelling is a guess)long underwear. They both move sweat so well that I managed to sweat up the back of my vest, but both the underwear and the outer wool stayed warm and dry.
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My Problem with Wool
Clean and scent free is a prerequisite for hunting most species. You have to dry clean wool which is expensive and they come back smelling like the chemicals they use. Or you could try to keep them odor free by placing them outside but then you sweat one time or have to pump gas in an emergency or . . .
Also, I've worn quality wool and synthetics in inclement weather and the wool retained more water, took much longer to dry and was not as warm when wet. I think at one time wool was the best there was but in my opinion today's synthetics are taking the lead.