Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: NDTerminator on February 10, 2009, 02:57:00 PM
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All the pictures being posted of broadheads that have broken or bent badly on impact with critters/bone have gotten me thinking...
Why is it this seems to happen on a fairly regular basis with Trad and the broadheads we tend to use, where it is nowhere near as common with compounds and the replacable & multiple blade broadheads commonly used there.
I don't ever recall having a broadhead ferrule break on game I shot with a compound. A couple minor bends and a couple instances of a single blade breaking yes, but never a complete failure.
It would seem with the higher speed of the average compound, this would be much more common than with Trad....
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shot placement
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I differ on that opion.I've had many heads not fair well durring my compound years.Ferrules snap in 2.blades broke and lost.Even had a expandable resemble more of a candy cane in shape after a meeting w/ a 80lbs does shoulder.
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Arrow weights.
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i have been using a couple different broadheads for a while, one i liked was the razor cap i use the 175 model due to the tougher ferrule,but i just saw a razorcap that a friend shot through a bear and when it contacted the bait barrel it absolutly fell apart, all three blades were split in diferent directions, this all happened after a pass through an animal, now i know most every one will say it already did its job but it still failed even after that much energy taken. then to think about the same broadhead on a moose rib or not to mention leg or shoulder, made me wonder. oh yeah he was shooting a compound,
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iv found different, i think a there are a LOT more failures with compounds, i have broken countless broadheads when i shot a compound, it was a regular occurrence, mechanical blades snapping of all the time. ferrules bending or breaking, 2 blades bending.
iv gotta really work at wrecking my Magnus or Zwickey 2 blades now
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ha ha ....Ive seen it both ways , I use to work in the largest bow shop in Louisiana, trust me , it goes both ways!! :)
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Same here..I'm with overbo and tradtusker....seen way,way more failures with buddies compound BH's than the one's most of us use...
I believe you'll find that your personal experience is diff. than most...
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My .02 cents but.... I dont think you hear about it as much with Compound shooters, cause honestly...they dont talk as much as this group :archer:
(one of the reasons I love the gang...everything is scrutinized because we typically do it harder, but are more proficient)
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And don't forget to put it in perspective. A few dozen pics of broken broadheads is but a drop in the bucket and hardly an accurate representation. Any head can fail for a variety of reasons, the least of which is found in the manufacturing.
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My observation has been your typical "trad" style head is a lot tougher than the usual component type heads used by most compound bow shooters.
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I always thought that the heavier the arrow weight the better :confused: I know there is some point where it works against you when there is to much weight...at what point that is, I would sure like to know
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I agree with Tim, as I was one of those wheel shooters for years. And really cannot remember one replaceable blade head. Or especially mechaically heads not losing one or more of its blades on deer. And thats around 25 heads with failer. But they all killed (http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l101/GUNSMITHAMMO/Smileys/4_12_12.gif) the deer with failure?
Today I shoot solid two blades like the Abowyers.
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Originally posted by frassettor:
I always thought that the heavier the arrow weight the better :confused: I know there is some point where it works against you when there is to much weight...at what point that is, I would sure like to know
A heavier arrow is always better where penetration is concerned. If your broadhead breaks on a hard hit, then you applied the maximum amount of force that particular head could take on that hit.
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Most of my hunting partners shoot compounds. In the (no exageration) hundreds of big game animals they've killed, I can't remember a single broadhead ferrule failing.
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out of our almost 20,000 memmbers its not much more then .05% that we are talking about.
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I have had a couple two blade heads get rolled up points from bone or hits in the ground after pass through. I have seen a couple expandable failures. I have shoot muzzy broad heads for many years and about 50 kills with never more than a bent replaceable blade even on hard bone hits. I have muzzy heads that have killed 6-8 deer still in the quiver and other than ending up on the wall with a rack I have never had to retire one.
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Been using cut on contact two and 4-blade heads for 40 years, slightly rounding and now tantoing the tips; Never had one fail. Have seen a number of my compound buddies lose blades in animals, and no, they didn't always get the animal.
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Thanks, I was purely curious on what other's experiences are in this area.
I've not yet had a Magnus 2 blade fail, although I've seen a couple slightly bent tips after hitting the ground on a pass through. Shooting a 45# Matthews, my wife blew a Magnus 100 grain clean through a big old 4 point in November. Chopped ribs in two with no damage to the broadhead.
My gut instinct is that Trad broadhead failures are probably a factory of the much heavier arrows we usually use putting a ton of stress on the broadhead when it hits bone.
For the record I'm a proponent of lighter weight arrows (10-11 GPP) on medium sized game when hunting with my recurves, and lighter weight 2 blade broadheads...
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Originally posted by NDTerminator:
For the record I'm a proponent of lighter weight arrows (10-11 GPP) on medium sized game when hunting with my recurves, and lighter weight 2 blade broadheads...
10-11gpp lighter weight?????
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Well after shooting broadheads from different bows for 30 years I have only had one falure.A magnus decided it had rather be shaped like a fish hook instead of a broadhead when I hit the wrong spot. :)
I have had a blade come off thunderheads when the arrow stayed in and it unscrewed as the deer was running.I have bent broadheads that hit rocks after passing through a deer or on a miss.I don't consider those failures of the broadhead.jmo
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Back when I was more "politically" active instead of just bitching like I do now; I was collecting failed expandables in order to try and show the DNR that they were unacceptable and should be outlawed.
It didn't take long to fill a shoebox and all of them were compound guys.
I guess that's apples and oranges really.
As far as a head failing because it hit a rock or a barrell, no-one REALLY considers that a failure do they? I mean, your head will split open if it hits a rock at 180fps but I wouldn't consider the skull failing.
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Originally posted by Guru:
Originally posted by NDTerminator:
For the record I'm a proponent of lighter weight arrows (10-11 GPP) on medium sized game when hunting with my recurves, and lighter weight 2 blade broadheads...
10-11gpp lighter weight????? [/b]
Yes, they are very light by many guys standards. My completed arrows are 520-530 grains...
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Originally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
As far as a head failing because it hit a rock or a barrell, no-one REALLY considers that a failure do they? I mean, your head will split open if it hits a rock at 180fps but I wouldn't consider the skull failing.
:biglaugh:
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Originally posted by NDTerminator:
Originally posted by Guru:
Originally posted by NDTerminator:
For the record I'm a proponent of lighter weight arrows (10-11 GPP) on medium sized game when hunting with my recurves, and lighter weight 2 blade broadheads...
10-11gpp lighter weight????? [/b]
Yes, they are very light by many guys standards. My completed arrows are 520-530 grains... [/b]
I find our differing ideals of arrow weight interesting in these threads. One persons idea of light is anothers idea of heavy. Almost like left and right leanings in politics.
I've always considered 55-65pound hunting bows shooting 9-11gpp hunting arrows to be right down the middle of the road medium. Going under this is headed towards the lighter side, and going over this is headed towards the heavier side. 10-11gpp hunting arrows are definitely lighter than 14-16gpp hunting arrows, but I wouldn't consider the former to be light weights:)
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Originally posted by Daddy Bear:
Originally posted by NDTerminator:
Originally posted by Guru:
quote:
Originally posted by NDTerminator:
For the record I'm a proponent of lighter weight arrows (10-11 GPP) on medium sized game when hunting with my recurves, and lighter weight 2 blade broadheads...
10-11gpp lighter weight????? [/b]
Yes, they are very light by many guys standards. My completed arrows are 520-530 grains... [/b]
I find our differing ideals of arrow weight interesting in these threads. One persons idea of light is anothers idea of heavy. Almost like left and right leanings in politics.
I've always considered 55-65pound hunting bows shooting 9-11gpp hunting arrows to be right down the middle of the road medium. Going under this is headed towards the lighter side, and going over this is headed towards the heavier side. 10-11gpp hunting arrows are definitely lighter than 14-16gpp hunting arrows, but I wouldn't consider the former to be light weights:)
Very true. I've been taken to task on a number of occasions for not adding a bunch of weight to carbons and using 125 grain points/broadheads. My only concession with carbons is I use 50 grain brass inserts rather than just alums. If Magnus built a 2 blade 150 grain I would fore go the brass inserts. So being, they happen to come out to about 525 grains, roughly 530 when I add wraps. This is what I shoot from 50#-#55...
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Magnus makes the Stinger in 150gr 2 blade.
I have never had a broadhead failure or seen any of my friends have one. This includes mostly compound kills. I have heard many stories of expandable failures though. With the exception of expandables, I doubt there is much difference in failure rates between compound or traditional bowhunters.
I shot Muzzy 3-blade broadheads for nearly twenty years from my compound at much greater speeds and you could shoot just about anything short of a brick wall and it would hold up very well .
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Yes, I know about the 150 grain Stinger. I should have been more clear, I want a 150 grain 2 blade resharpenable. I can't imagine it would be very hard to do...
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I reallly like the 150 grain 2 blade stinger. It's what I have on my arrows.
-Charlie
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I also shot a few Broadheads into Big Game animals and I never had a failure of ferrule mabe the odd bent blade with compounds I think arrows fly straighter with compounds than trad gear thats why they hold up!
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Originally posted by NDTerminator:
Yes, I know about the 150 grain Stinger. I should have been more clear, I want a 150 grain 2 blade resharpenable. I can't imagine it would be very hard to do...
Jon,
The Stinger is one of the easiest heads out there to re-sharpen.
Ron
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I think it is like someone said there are so many of us on this site from all over the world and taking that into consideration we are not seeing that many failures. We are teaching each other with the tonto tips and such to make our equiptment better. I have killed a lot of animals with a compound and me and the people I hunt with don't expect those broadheads to shoot into huge chunks of bone and still kill the animal. If you hit that shoulder you screwed up and you don't expect a broadhead to make up for your mistake. I understand you are prepararing for the worst case but a broadhead can only be expected to do so much
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I've had several failures over the years. They were all the modular type heads with replaceable blades. I switched to zwickeys deltas twenty years ago and haven't had one since. Gary
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Originally posted by Sharpster:
Originally posted by NDTerminator:
Yes, I know about the 150 grain Stinger. I should have been more clear, I want a 150 grain 2 blade resharpenable. I can't imagine it would be very hard to do...
Jon,
The Stinger is one of the easiest heads out there to re-sharpen.
Ron [/b]
I know, but they cost twice as much as standard Magnus 2 blades. I refuse to pay upwards of $10 a piece for broadheads...
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Many heads compound guys shoot have beefy chisel tips instead of COC points. that alone makes them tougher on impacts. I also believe that a well tuned compound shot by and average shooter will have a much truer flying arrow than a well tuned trad bow by an average shooter. The truer the arrow flight the more direct the impact will be on the center of the head. if the arrow isn't hiiting 100% straight the head will be taking more abuse
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Originally posted by Skipmaster1:
Many heads compound guys shoot have beefy chisel tips instead of COC points. that alone makes them tougher on impacts. I also believe that a well tuned compound shot by and average shooter will have a much truer flying arrow than a well tuned trad bow by an average shooter. The truer the arrow flight the more direct the impact will be on the center of the head. if the arrow isn't hiiting 100% straight the head will be taking more abuse
Now that makes a lot of sense...