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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Horner on February 23, 2009, 01:03:00 PM
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I have a few hang on stands hanging on public hunting land. I always take my steps out, at the base of the trees. I have had stands hanging out for two years on this land. This past gun season I took my muzzle loader and hit the woods. I walked past one of my stand locations, and there was someone in my stand! I wanted to ask him what he was doing but thought about it, and there was no way to prove it was my stand. So I just walked by and continued my hunt. After gun season I waited a month, to let the deer settle down before I went back out bow hunting. I went to go hunt that stand location and the stand was gone. I was mad at the time, but then thought its my falt for putting it up to begin with. I guess I just had to much faith in my fellow hunters. I guess since I did not say hay that is my stand, and no one else said anything to him. He just thought it was his.
Your thoughts please,
Horner
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that sucks! :(
leave a note on your stands saying "smile your on one of my trail cams"
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No, he knew he was stealing. In my state (MA) the regs clearly stipulate that while you can not claim a hunting area as yours; they do ask that hunters be respectful of one another. Your property is still considered as your property.
That guy who stole your stand should be beaten and put it stocks in the public square!
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i've had the same thing happen on "private" land. i've never left a stand up on public land unless i knew i would be up and on it before anyone else had a chance....but never for more than a day. i think you were probably lucky they stayed up as long as they did.
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In Vermont you need to have your name, address and phone number on any stand you put on public land. Also it's first come first served if you leave a stand on public land as far as using it. Leaving one up for two years on public land is just begging for it to be gone. A fellow may have thought it was abandoned and took it(there are places I hunt that stands have been hanging for twenty years never claimed)or stolen by someone not necessarily a hunter but likely.
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I locked mine this year but the GW told me that 5 stands had been stolen-they think by one guy who saw a particular hunting area as his. There are more horses asses than there are horses in the world!
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I have had stands hanging out for two years on this land.
Someone could have figured your stand was abandoned if they seen it there 2 years straight.
In my State you have to pull them at the end of season on State land and you can't leave them overnight on Federal land. A warden may take them otherwise. Some might even say they become trash if left beyond regulation time.
Leaving stands up on public land is a touchy subject IMO. In essence you have claimed a hunting spot on a public purchased resource. Many people take offense to that. Though not a good enough reason to steal, that could explain why they took your stand.
I understand why people leave them up. Many people have no intent of claiming an area, however some do . Those are the guys that yank my chain.
It's a risky proposition. Anymore, I personally prefer to be portable and take my stand with me each time I leave. Keeps the controversy away, doesn't advertise my favorite spots and keeps maggots from stealing my stands.
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Bryan......that WAS your stand. I just don't understand the "ethics and morals" of some of today's hunters. In my hunting career, I have walked by to many treestands to even attempt to guess the number of. I have never and will never climb up in someone else's stand, whether it is on private or public land....unless I have the permission of the person that does own the stand.
Something that I have done though.....is to try and figure out WHY they made a decision to hang a stand there in the first place. Sometimes it is quite evident, and other times I haven't a clue. I guess you could say that I take each and every opportunity to learn, and this is one of the ways that I do.
I am absolutely certain that if I walked by a stand that I had hung and someone else was sitting in it, that a conversation would occur. Depending on how that conversation went, and also depending on whether I had planned on sitting that stand on that particular day or not would make the difference as to whether they continued to sit in MY stand. Public land or not, the property that they are occupying is yours.
To me it is just like parking my truck in a "public parking lot" and coming out of a store and finding someone leaning on, or sitting on it. The parking lot is "public"....but the truck is MINE.
As I said originally, the morals and ethics of some people are truly disgusting, and I hate to say it.....but it's probably gonna get worse.
Winterhawk1960
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I had a Summit climber stolen from USFS land across the road from my house a few years back. It made me mad, but there wasn't much I could do about it since I did leave it there. I had left stands before, but would always remove them before the weekend, or if I wasn't going back for a few days.
I would never take one, but there are many who will.
Needless to say, I now carry 'em back out!
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In todays litigeous society, if you leave your stands for two years and somebody gets in one and it breaks and he falls, he could sue you to boot.
Tell him that Fedor Emelianenko is your brother in law.
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why do we keep referring to this guys as a hunter? He is a theif! True hunters have ethics and morals and a respect for the land, and those before them. This guy is not a hunter. Rather just a plain theif.
Lets stop calling him a hunter. Criminal is a better synonym for him.
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Now Biggie how many do you think would know who he is?
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I DO!!!!
i've had 3 loc-ons stolen all on public land, and 2 were locked to the tree. i now use a climber 90% of the time. i also have started using the cheap 20-40$ loc-ons from dicks.
its a shame, but ya cant trust some people. i havent had a stand stolen in the last five years. but i bet ive had 100 screw in steps stolen!! thinkin about those lone-wolf sticks..
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like winterhawk said.. did ya park on public land? is it ok to steal your truck?? they are thiefs and they know it.
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Originally posted by Horner:
I have a few hang on stands hanging on public hunting land. I always take my steps out, at the base of the trees. I have had stands hanging out for two years on this land.
Sorry your stands were stolen. I don't think anyone should leave a stand up even over night on public land.
One it's public land for all to use even non-hunters. It looks trashy if your a non hunter enjoying the woods seeing treestands. It gives us a bad image in my mind.
By leaving it out in a way your claiming that area to hunt....think about it.
By your comment "taking your steps out" does that mean your using screw in steps? You could be ticketed for damage to the tree, same with a hang on stand with a chain...leaving it for two years would cause some damage to the tree.
These are just my thoughts on public land, I pack out what I pack in....even though it's an inconvinence.
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Yes they where screw in steps. Never really thought about the tree damage. All the stands I have used are straps not chains.
Thanks for posting,
Horner
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Public land is public land, you shouldn't let your stands there even overnight as far as I'm concerned. Nobody should steal anyone's goods, that's a given, but letting stands on public land is really asking for problems.
Hundreds of people could literally do the same thing and create a heck of a mess in the woods. Carry them in and back out on each hunt.
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On state land in Wisconsin, stands must be removed at the end of the hunting day. They may be left up on private land. On county owned land where I hunt, the county premits two stands to be left up during season, but does require that your name and address is on them.
If you don't have an identifiable marker on your stand, an engraved name or something like that, it's difficult to prove the stand is yours. I've never found another hunter in one of my stands, probably because I hunt pretty far in. However, if I did find another hunter in my stand, I would not hesitate to ask him to vacate it right now. I wouldn't try to stop him from hunting in the area. He has as much right to hunt there as I, but not out of my stand. I usually chain my stands so they can't be opened and sat in. However, after an episode in which I found another hunter in my stand, I would pull it and go elsewhere.
One might get the idea that the same stand hanging in the same place for two years was just left (Believe it or not, people do that.), but signs of use should have been sufficient to indicate that yours wasn't abandoned. Some slob stole it, plain and simple.
I chain and lock my stands to the tree, but I've pretty much just been lucky to this point. If someone finds one and wants it, chains can be cut. The only way to guarantee someone won't steal it is to take it with you.
Unfortunate, but that's the way the world is nowadays.
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I will have to go with the minority on this one. I do not lease here in Texas...prices are way to high. So I go to public land, I have ran into a couple of guys who hunted areas "their whole lives..." and get quite aggetated when you are there. They have permanent lock on ladder stands and will go out of their way to ruin your hunt if you are in their space. (Yep...had it happen to me).
On the land I hunt you have to take your stands down within 72 hours of putting them up. Having said that...the folks I run into are never carrying stands or blinds which means they are leaving them.
Personally I wish they wouldn't...public is public, if you leave a $20 bill on public land, folks will walk off with it, same with a stand. Sadly we have become a society of selfish people...I pray it will change.
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and yes...I pull take mine in and bring it out each time.
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I see the point some of you are making and you are correct. I'm glad I posted this it has opened up my eyes. The reason I left them out is because I did not want to deal with the noise of setting up and tearing down everyday. Its all about silence in the woods to me, however I can see how someone would take this as claiming that part of the woods for myself.
Thanks,
Horner
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...as long as you are sitting in your stand it is yours. Once you leave it, it becomes public...on public land.
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I see the point some of you are making and you are correct. I'm glad I posted this it has opened up my eyes. The reason I left them out is because I did not want to deal with the noise of setting up and tearing down everyday. Its all about silence in the woods to me, however I can see how someone would take this as claiming that part of the woods for myself.
Thanks,
Horner
Just a suggestion
Using a quality portable stand can actually help a-lot in your hunting success. Pick yourself up a good packable stand and sticks, climbing belt for hands free working and prepare your stand sites in the off season. Some deer are sensitive to stands hanging in the tree anyhow. The hang and hunt element of suprise has cost a lot of venison. I bet close to half the deer I've killed in the last 4 years have been taken from hang and hunt outings. Once you get a system down, it can be done quiet and efficient. Really not as bothersome as most think.
Mike
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If that's the case Pat B, next time you hunt public land and your truck gets stolen, (parked on public land, right) don't get mad. It's PUBLIC property now.
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Originally posted by vermonster13:
Now Biggie how many do you think would know who he is?
I do. I wouldn't take someone else's stand, but if I thought about doing it, he would likely convince me otherwise.
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In Il. you can leave a stand up the entire season,but you are supposed to take it down at the end of the season. Tree steps are prohibited.
As brothers we should all respect one anothers property. I don't care how long a stand is left in a tree,I will not take it,it doesn't belong to me period!
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A stand on public land should not be looked on as claiming a spot. I have no problem hunting near one if it is vacant. I wouldn't hunt out of one though. I sure hope no one feels they are staking a claim by hanging a stand on public land.
I'm not sure about leaving stands up in Ohio but using screw-in steps is definitely a no-no. A 30 second Yahoo search found this out.
Tree Stands
It is unlawful to construct, place or use a permanent-type tree stand, or to place spikes, nails, wires or other metal objects into a tree to act as steps or to hold a tree stand on public hunting lands. It is also unlawful to do any of these things on private property without first getting the permission of the landowner or the landowner’s authorized agent.
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In Kansas any stand on public property can be used by Anyone. If You choose to leave Your stand in the tree and someone gets there before You they can legally hunt from it. It's not right but that's the law.
I only use climbers on public ground. Never leaving a stand even over night.
I had a stand stolen off of private property once and it really sucked!!!
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Most fish and game departments fall back on the federal laws about duck blinds on federal lands; including highwater marked land on navigable rivers.
First guy to a duck blind; gets to use it; that has been law for 35 years that I know of.
But a treestand on public property; on forest service land - that is a different situation.
I put out bear baits; usually one that I keep going; and that I hunt off of. I put up a stand and I leave it there. I use screw in steps; and I can see trees I used with screw ins in the past that are doing fine; and others that I never used die. If drilling a hole in a tree and letting the sap drip out kills a tree; then explain maple syrup production to me.
I have found others in my stand. Do not envy these people. Once an outfitter put a guy over my bait; in my stand and said that he was having problems with hunters using 'his' stands; so he told the client to 'do what ever you have to- to keep others from using the stand'.
Well - there was my bear bait; that I put two months of toting bait in on my back to. And here is this old guy in my stand - telling me to 'back off or else'. When I pointed out my name was on the stand - he realized that the outfitter was lying to him; but I let him stay there; heck even with a compound he was another bowhunter; who saved a long time for that trip. The next hunter that outfitter tried that on chased the client and the outfitter off. The outfitter returned; flattened all the tires on the legit hunters truck and ... when that hunter found him- well the outfitter got beaten ~really~ bad; and had to replace the tires with new ones.
Violence is not why we go into the woods; and using someone elses stand is obviously wrong. If you put another stand in the same tree; well really there is not much of an argument about it being legally wrong; but ethically?
As stated; if you find a hunters truck in the woods; you cannot use it. There are ATVs with materials to make them into stands... what about that? If someone walked up and took your bow; it would be stealing. Why is not a stand respected for being personal property?
I had an Ameristep ground blind set up on my bear bait; and baited the spot then pulled out until later that evening. When I came back a rifle hunter had put illegal bait on my bait pile ( its registered with a tag) and had moved the ground blind to where he thought it served him and his rifle better. In the process; he grabbed the blind with bait covered fingers; and the bears chewed on the blind. He had also driven his atv off road for a quarter of a mile to get right to the stand.
Did he break any laws - well no- except unenforced atv laws. He essentially ruined my ground blind by moving it; he climbed into my treestand and cleared out all the brush I had to camo me; and he put a steelhead carcass on the bait ( illegal to use; but the fine goes to the guy who owns the tag; not the guy who puts the illegal bait there).
I complained and the fish and game said that if you leave something in the woods; that other people have a right to use it.
Well that kind of thinking leads to violence.
Yes on waterholes for antelope and duck blinds; there is conflict between hunters - but to use anothers blind or stand?
Biggie points out that a person falling from your stand could sue you. How about the other way around; like if the stand is rated at 250 pounds; and some lard a$$ goes up there and breaks it; can we sue them? What happens if a treestep is faulty; like sawed to where it would break if you used it to climb with... I had someone to that to one of my treesteps once. If I had not taken a moment to test it; I might have ended up on the ground. What if someone else had decided to use the blind and the step had broken...who is liable?
In Idaho you cannot interfere with the lawful hunting and fishing of another- its a misdemeanor to do so. Yet; the fish and game does not consider using another's blind 'interfering'.
In a whole lot of our arguments we formulate our logic- based on where we are; and the particular situations we have faced. The guy out east hunting a small plot of public land will have a different logical conclusion about things; over a person that hunts tens of thousands of acres of federal lands.
The bears I hunt check the area out totally before they come in. They do not like northern Canadian bears that have never seen a human; walk in and stare at the hunter in the tree and start feeding; they will not come in if they see a hunter; smell a hunter or think a hunter is there. For me to have to put in a stand everyday ( and climbers do not work on trees that are like christmas trees with limbs sticking out all over...); would just chase the bears off. It is again NOT like going to hunt bears in a place where human interaction is nil - where a guide has been placing bait for a month. Yeah there you put up a stand and that night -you might have a chance to get a bear.
But the bears I hunt; they are not falling for that stuff. The boars live 30 years; and the sows learn to avoid the cub killing boars; and the boars are as smart as any whitetail I have come across. To walk in for 45 minutes to a bait; and in 90 degree weather; have to put up a stand; would make you stink bad enough the bears would not only smell you; but they lay up watching the bait; and would see and hear you put up your blind. And not come in ... maybe even leave the area for another.
But the basic thing is; do you have a right to use someone else's property without their permission; and how does the law protect us from it: so that it does not lead to conflict?
Apparently in some states is just your tough luck - which is not good for hunting.
Then again - some departments really don't care about hunting - or hunters.
and it shows itself in the rules they make.
Then again too: if someone walks up and pees on your leg; and you just stand there and complain... whose fault is it: that your leg is wet?
Why do not fish and game departments put gps locators in stands and let these stand thieves explain- why they have someones else's property in their possession... like to a judge?
Or are the officers busy that day ?
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Have you ever contacted the area manager of the land. It is possible that the stand was pulled by the agency that manages the land. Some states check the public areas and address all kinds of issues. Be warned I don't know the regulation in your state but it is possible that there could have been a violation with your stand and that is why it was pulled.
Just a thought.
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Stolen, the arse-hat needs a good lickin'.
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MN.. it's illegal to leave stands up. The conservation officers will confiscate the stand and fine you if they can find ya.
At last years Bowhunter education course someone questioned the officer if its legal to remove a leftover stand and the officer sort've danced around the question and said it's ok to remove them but they prefer them to be turned into the DNR. He went on to say they must be returned to the rightful owner if they ask for it back, but what are the chances of that happening..
As you said Brian, in some States its tough luck.
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had stands taken from my private land too. the guy even unscrewed some of the tree steps that came out more easily. never thought i would have to lock stands on my own land.
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I agree..people should not steal, but this society has become lazy and earning money and saving up for something seems to be a thing of the past.
Another truth (there have been lots)...is that even if the police caught them...nothing would really happen.
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In MT I would find stands locked to the only tree on a water hole. Turned out many were put there by a gov't employee who had access to the area prior to the season while doing his job. It was pretty aggravating not to be able to hunt these waterholes. He put a lot of these stands up.
This is why I think there should be limits to leaving stands on public land.
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I do most of my hunting on public land. I once had a pop up blind stolen but never a tree stand yet. In the past few seasons I have changed my hunting tactics and now hunt on the ground 99% of the time.
While out hunting I have come upon many tree stands. Some in spots I'd like to hunt but since I was beat to the spot I just pass on by. I know that it would be easy to climb on up and hunt the spot but IMO that would be wrong.
I also inscribe my name into an unsuspecting part of the stand just in case I come upon someone sitting in it just to prove the stand is mine.
Remember dishonest people are everywhere.
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I put my last four somewhere on each of my stands with a dremel. I usually lock them to the tree with a chain. Havent had one stolen yet.
Here in NY, you cant leave a stand on public/state land(cant damage any living trees either...no steps or screws). I use a climber.
I cant imagine hunting someone else's stand and feeling ok about it. I couldnt even begin to think of taking it. Sad what some people do...
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In my job as a Human Resources Manager and Hospital Compliance Officer I spend a lot of time explaining to people about the things they can and can't do. One of the most common complaints I hear as I teach is, "but that's not right." I then usually must spend an inordinate amount of time explaining the differences between what is "right" and what is "legal." The two are often not the same thing at all.
For example, there are laws in every State that forbid the stealing of your car. However, in many States (as we've already seen) the laws provide for the exact opposite in terms of hunting gear left unattended. It may not be right, but that isn't going to get you very far. Rail all you want against it but, unless and until you get your legislators to change the law, there will be no remedy for your loss.
I think you could also find losers and jerks on both sides of the argument. For example, why should a camper be subject to fines if they litter in public wilderness, while at the same time you are allowed to hang a 20+ lb eyesore in a tree and leave it there, possibly indefinitely?
Or why should you be able to lay an exclusive claim (and any reasoned "jury-of-your-peers" is going to agree that it is staking a claim) to hunt in an area of public land, just by leaving some of your personal property in the area (or in multiple areas)?
It's wrong that I should have to lock my home up when I go somewhere. People should know that what is in there is mine, not theirs. However, if on the basis of what's right/wrong I choose not to lock my doors, then I pretty much am asking for my things to be liberated from me.
So too with public land. You should not leave your stuff there, at least not if you want to remain the owner of said stuff. Right, wrong, or indifferent has no bearing on the matter. If you leave it, someone will likely take it and there is often no legal remedy for you.
Also, if you have left your things on public land, others are going to use them and the laws have generally been specifically constructed such that the person occupying "your" stand will have more rights to it than you. Right, wrong, or indifferent has no bearing on the matter.
If you don't like it, get ahold of your legislators and start lobbying for change. Just don't hold your breath in the process.
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Well I know who Fedor is too and I think Fedor would tell you not to leave your stand up on public land. Not to excuse theft, but if it was up for two years it was far past time to be removed. I think it is a bit of a stretch to call it theft when it was left that long both in and out of season. Put something of value out on the sidewalk unattended and see how long it lasts.
Ironically, I've never had a stand stolen on public land, but have had many stolen on private land. Trespassers suck...
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I'm not a big fan of folks leaving stands on public land. It's no excuse for the other guy to take it, but for Pete's sake - a stand on a tree says 'this is my spot'. If you leave the thing there for two years, are you in it every day? Of course not.
Is it ok for another guy to hunt in your stand - I think most of us would frown on that and would avoid doing it. What if he wanted to hunt from the ground with his back to that tree? If you want to hunt today and the guy is there (on the ground close to your tree stand that's been there who knows how long), then is he a jerk for 'stealing your spot'?
My son and I tend to be out 2-3 days a week most weeks during deer season. We hunt public land and go great lengths to avoid messing up other hunters we see but when the woods are festooned with apparently abandoned stands, what's a guy to do?
No offense to the OP but I say leaving a stand up on public land (especially for such a long time) is little different than leaving a chair or a hat or any other litter out there. It clutters up the place, gives the non-hunting public a bad impression of us (assuming people other than hunters use your area), and is grossly inconsiderate to your fellow hunters.
That's a pet peeve of mine - please forgive the heat of the reply.
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Here in Jersey a stand wouldn't last a week on State land or private property, chained up or not. Battery Sawzalls and bolt cutters. Just the way some folks are. If you put up a stand on State Land with the intention of leaving it for ease of getting in and hunting in a premo spot you have to expect that.I've had folks in my tree[no stand] follow my brighteyes trail to my tree after I spent the time scouting and picking the tree. I would have said "Hey Buddy that's my tree stand your in" he would have said "prove it". You better have your name engraved in it or your name and address taped to it in a hidden spot. Then make sure your perfectly legal for leaving it up withscrew in steps before you call the game warden or police.
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This is kind of like leaving a $100 laying out somewhere and expecting it to be there when you get back. Nobody should have any reasonable expectation of protection on public land.
It makes 'those' people wonder, "Is it abandoned or did someone forget where they put it? Screw it, I'll take it anyway.."
Some places have time limits as to how long something can be sitting unused before it is considered abandoned.
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The stand was still your stand and they shouldn't have taken it, period! :banghead: Unfortunatly it's just like you said, shame on you for leaving it out in these days and times and having faith in other people. Sadly, there aren't many like us left. :(
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Let's examine one more thing. WHY HUNT OUT OF A STAND THAT HAS BEEN HANGING THERE FOR TWO YEARS. I value my life a little more than that. As someone pointed out etiquette might differ depending on what region you are in. I never see anyone by my stand areas. Definitely no hikers. But I live out west where public land is huge. I don't give a crap if my stand is used. Just respect it and the area. I have always dreamed about catching someone stealing a car or something else that doesn't belong to them so that I could throw them a beating like they do on Cops. "Sir, stop resisting."
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I think the game warden would have taken it here if you left it after the season. I would not dream of sitting in someone elses stand, and I sure as h#%# would not take it. People can get killed over stuff like this granted more likely with guns. I had guys in my stand and they where 25 feet off the ground with the platform locked up so some idiot climbed on to the seat and let his feet dangle 25feet in the air. This is a real hot button for me, I would like to rant more but every one else already said it all.
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These threads really illustrate regional differences. I don't mind treestands being left in the woods and I don't really think they clutter htings up at all. What I hate is surveyors tape. That is how people say "back up it's mine" in public land around here.
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On public land, a left treestand is like reserving the piece. If you need a reserved piece, go buy it.
I wouldn't take your stand or hunt from it, but if I wanted to hunt in that spot I would. I own it as much as you do.
I pull every piece of surveyors tape I see too. Thats just like tossing trash.
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In TN you gotta have your name and lic.# clearly posted on your stand. New regs as of last year say you cant leave your stand on a tree more than 48 hrs on the WMAs. You should always lock your foot locker!! LOL
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i live in ohio, the game warden has said that it is puplic land their for if is on puplic land it is up for graps. he said most hunters will leave it alone but they do not have to. it is best to take it with you.
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I hunt 95% of the time on puplic land nd I do not personaly leave my stands on these properties because I know that they more than likely would not be there upon my return. But on the same note I would not take another persons propertry because when you get right down to it that is stealing and any one with a counsuos knows that is plain wrong. As far as using the stand we get into the area of if every one did this it would be like staking claims to hunting areas that are for the most part allready very limited in this would not be fair etheir
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When you take something that does not belong to you; and you know it belongs to someone else: it is stealing.
So it seems like treestand theft is a major problem. So what happens to people that are caught stealing treestands?
Anybody heard of anyone being prosecuted for it ?
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In Texas you can not leave them out. You have to bring them out after every hunt or the GW will take them down. And some WMA's do not allow any.
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My 2 cents- There is few things better than to have your stand set, so you can get to it quietly and scent free when hunting. However, do to alot of problems, more and more public places are getting away from legality, from hunters leaving stands up, (you always have someone still doing it). I had a situation where I walked in on my stand, and sure enough there was a hunter in it. I Politely asked the gentleman if he knew who stand it was and what was he doing in it. After the stories flew, I asked him if he would step down and look at the lower stand rail, and read me the name I had engraved on it. He knew right away that I was the owner, There was my name, address and phone number on the stand and the stick ladder, for my own protetion and DNR's. I explained after he came down and this is how I feel to this day. "This is public property, but that stand and ladder is mine." "I you was to bring a stand in and set it up next to me, you have every right to do so, though we would likely mess each others hunts up. But, this is public property". He was young, and trying to learn on his own. Few days later I got in my stand before light, and when the sun came up, there he was in another tree, 10 yards away. After while we got down, and I asked if he seen the Buck behind him, he said no. I then explained why, and gave him some guidance, we still hunt together once and while. No, I am not a saint, I was aggrivated, but at the same time, I found that it was better to use honey than vinger to get my point across. Like I said, it is public property, and when we leave a stand up, it is like leaving our bow leaning against a tree (yes, I have seen a few guys do this). We are begging someone to come and take it. It is a pain, but unless you are willing to loose the stand, (had a few stolen), that is the chance we are taking. Lock's are made to keep honest people, honest. If somone wants it bad enough, they will get it. On another note, a buddy of mine had some property he owned, and only he and I could hunt it. close to shotgun season we found 4 stands hanging and locked on his property. he was mad and I said, look we will leave a note on them, and explain they are on your property and if not gone in a few days, then we will take them. We left the notes on three, one had a number engraved, we called it and explained to the guy, and he apoligized and took his stand down that night. A week later another was gone and two still there. We cut the locks, left a note pined to the tree where they could get them. The other two stands my buddy still has, no one came and got them. They guy that took his stand down that night, became good friends with us, and even took my friend elk hunting few times. just examples.
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Though I do not like the fact that someone took your stand or sat in your stand, I am DEEPLY opposed to anyone leaving stands on public ground when they are not hunting in it.
I see guys cover the public grounds with stands as if they claim that "public" site as their own. Then if someone hunts it they complain.
I actually think it is unethical to claim public ground by putting your stand there, then maybe coming back once or twice a season.
Modern equipment makes it VERY easy to hunt very portable. I never leave a stand in the woods- even on private ground. The worse thing in the world to me is to find a hot spot only to look up and see a chain or steps in the tree as if it belonged to someone else. You do not even know if the guy will/or has been there the entire season.
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There are no 2 ways in my mind. It's stealing.........period.
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I know who Fedor is! The good thing is that he hunts with his bare hands. He's not likely to take your stand. If he does, just let him have it and walk away.
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KSdan
I can only assume that where you are there are lots of hunters. Here where I am; the spring bear hunt is any weapon; so I am dealing with rifle hunters that see my truck parked- and are driving all over where they are not supposed to on their ATVs.
Its normally for me - here in Idaho; to have one person; every once and a while: that decides to hunt- by using my stands over my bait.
I leave my stand there all season; because I have to sneak in and out; and its a long walk in with bait each evenings hunt.
I hunt over 60 days in the spring hunt. I drive from home 10.5 miles to where I park.
I am not going to carry my stand into the bait everyday; and I am in grizzly country; I have seen them at my bait. So; the thought of taking the stand down in the dark has an additional burden of danger: than perhaps you encounter- where you hunt.
I disagree that its unethical to claim public ground [by putting my stand next to my bait].
I pay a fee for tags which are to be attached to a tree close to the bait. They are plastic lock-on tags.
So; paying a fee; being required by law to tag my bait... well.. leaving my stand there is not pretentious.
Now legally anyone can shoot bears off my bait; I do not own the woods; but I do have an ethical reason to leave my stand there. I pay for the bait; I pay for the gas to get there; I pay for the bait tag; I have to seal it to a tree- I am pretty tied to that spot.
And where I hunt - finding ONE tree that is perfect for the bait is a challenge. In fact I put my bait where a tree that will hide me: and then I put a stand in it and hunt the bait.
Now too - keep this in mind... in this state there are outfitters who operate on federal land. They put their camps up year after year; decade after decade in the same spots; for all the bow and rifle seasons.
And for decades upon decades they put bait out in the same place.
Their living; and the happiness of their clients - is dependent on having a spot; knowing that spot; and using it every year - on public land: that you and I both own.
Is that ethical? I think so.
I have always hunted bears where there are other hunters. I have hunted in areas along with hound hunters; and rifle hunters; and muzzleloader hunters.
Here at least; it is rare that we have conflict over bait sites. Last year there were at least 2 other bear baits going in the area I hunted in. I stop by their camps on the way out and we talk bears. I have met many really wonderful people and their families up to hunt here for the first time- or many generations.
I have stalked up on bears - trophy bears; while spot and stalking; and realized the bear was on someones bait- and I backed out of the area and shot opportunity.
But when a person knows of my success with bears; and that person decides to not hunt bears; but hunt my bait and stands-- well it just does not fit in here.
Perhaps with all the stand thefts; and what I perceive of as little to no attempts to catch or charge the stand thieves - I live in a little different world.
So many times we get into discussions and sharpen each other swords on issues- when the factors surrounding the issues: are different for us.
:campfire:
When all along- we are ethical beings - being ethical in accordance with our local situations.
Theft though: is theft.
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If it's not yours, don't take it.
If it is yours, tell that guy to move his arse!
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If I see a stand Ill stay away from it cause the guy might not know how to hunt. he may start smoking. talkin on a cell phone. or he may just be noisy. sometimes if I go on a eveing hunt an its dark when I leave an Iam going to hunt there the next moring I will leave my stand. the chances of someone finding it are slim. If someone sets up on top of me befor I get there.Ill just leave. however if they are in my stand they WILL becomeing out.If you do leave your stand you gotta deal with whatever comes with that . however Stealing is Stealing thank god this is not a yearly problem it dose go on from time to time
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I agree with the 'theft is theft' people. It sounds like we all agree that it's wrong to steal a treestand.
The other side of the coin though, is that leaving your stand up on public land can be just as wrong. That other guy out there (assuming he's a taxpaying citizen like you are) has every bit as much right to those good spots as you have *but* when you mark your spot with a stand (or tape, as I've learned on this thread - weird), I'll argue that you are stealing his access to that bit of public land.
IMO, taking something that isn't yours - a treestand or exclusive access to public land - is wrong.
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Hoosier report:
People will steal ANY stand they see. They will put them up on public, or posted private land, and then sneak in there and hunt. If the stand gets taken down, they don't care-they stole it anyway. They will take down Posted signs while they hunt, and then put them back when they leave. They will organize a drive through private land without landowner permission. They will be the first to bitch when someone proposes an anti-hunting law.
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I'll have to go back and read this again cause I don't remember anyone stealing his stand just hunting from it.
Remember the controversial thread about leasing?
I leave stands up on all of my leases.
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I like the law here in NY. No permanent stands on state land. I asked about this years ago and was told that permanent stands (and that's what a portable is if left in place) denote ownership of an area, and they don't want that. When I hunt state land I use a climber.
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Here, you may hang stands or put up blinds 30 days prior to the season and must remove them 30 NLT 30 days after the close of the season. The stand is yours, but the first person to occupy it has the right to use it. However, they aren't supposed to take it. Screw in steps are also allowed, but aren't supposed to be left after the season ends either.
All that said, the best idea is probably to take them down if you aren't going to be in them every day. It would be nice if scum bags didn't exist, but they do.
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Just carry it out of the woods...it's public land for pete's sake.
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I left my truck parked at the park yesterday while walking. Glad someone didn't carry it off.
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Off the subject but I have seen his name on here a bunch. Who is Fedor Emelianeko?
Thanks,
Horner
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Remember the controversial thread about leasing?
I leave stands up on all of my leases.
There's your answer, everyone start leasing. Then you just let your pocket book do the argueing for ya. ;)
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Horner, If it's the Fedor I think it is he's a MMA fighter.
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OOOOOh ya, got you. I would not mess with that guy.
Thanks,
Horner
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I also need to add one more thing. This thread made me aware of one other problem. That tape, I have also seen It hanging all over the place in the woods I hunt. I always thought it was just the forest people marking out property lines or something. I have however, seen it in places that I thought it should not have been. Its sometimes good to be young and dumb, until your eyes open up and your like, what the @#$#@.
Thanks,
Horner
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Generally, if you leave something attached to public land long enough - like 2 years for a tree stand - you've pretty much made it a "fixture" and therefore available for public use. Your truck is only attached by gravity so that's not a real issue. Still doesn't mean anyone else is entitled to take your stand, but does mean he can use it if his own moral code doesn't preclude him from doing so.
I agree with Horner about the tape; I've used it to mark a trail entry so I could find it in the dark the next morning, but I think using it carries an obligation to remove it when you come back out. It sure has no business being a claim on a piece of public land.
On the other hand, as someone pointed out, the supply of horse's asses by far outstrips the supply of horses.
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Locdoc, the public land I have hunted on it is illegal to leave your stand unattended. Parking my truck on the edge of the public road is what was suggested to me by the authorities so if my truck was stolen I would report the theft. I don't believe these are at the same situation.
I would not hunt from a stand that belonged to someone else without their permission or would I remove it. Pat
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That is too bad. I would have been all over that guy when I found him in my stand. As far as I am concerned the land is public, but the sand is not. Just like my car on the street. I have a talk with anyone that knowingly sets up in bow range of my stands on private land. Here we have to have a name on a stand left on public land and no screw in steps. I use stick ladders and don’t keep them out if I am not hunting consecutive days on public land. I usually only hunt public land with a climber, but I do have my ways to do it with hang on stands and I don’t keep them up all year.
Here is what I do for all my stands on property I don’t own and others I don’t know can hunt. I hunt with chain on stands. My favorite is the Baby gorilla. I wrap the chain around the tree and thread the extra in and out of the frame, which is welded. Then I put the end link through the steel mesh platform with it folded up, and snap a lock on the end of it. You can’t get it or hunt it without doing some cutting. Not only have I not lost a stand, but I now have much less stand burn out from people hunting them when I am trying to let them cool down. There is only one thing I hate more than stand thieves and that is someone that is too lazy to learn to hunt and find good spots of their own. I started doing the same thing this year on private property where some relatives decided it would be a great idea to hunt my stand after they burned theirs out, and not tell me so I was wasting my time in them. I just got three more baby gorillas for next year to fix that problem.
My other tactic is to hide steps and ladder stick in places where they are hard to spot. Then I hunt with my Lone Wolf Assault. I just hang it and hunt then leave with it. Most people are too lazy to hall a stand in and out. If I find a stand on one of my setups I leave a note and take the stand. Then they can come talk to me and the land owner about why they think that was ok for them to take over someone’s hunting spot.
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Stand theft is a "right of passage" here in Michigan. I've had half a dozen stolen and now use a tree sling, pop up blind or a climber. I do have a couple garage sale hang ons that I use. Best thing to do is make your stand look like a piece of junk so nobody wants it. If you put up a high dollar nice looking stand chances are it will be taken.
Sorry to hear about your loss, I know how frustrating it is.
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Xtrema, where in K-zoo do ya live?
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Far west side off M-43 at the Co. line. I hunt a lot in Middleville.
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I've always wondered how some of these people that lay claim to public areas think.
I mean, when they head to the city park and their kids are using the jungle gym or swing set, does that mean it's exclusively thier's for that day? :)
The guys that like to steal treestands. I wonder if they ever get nervous while they're up the tree pulling it off?
It's always been a fantasy of mine to find someone hanging from my tree just putting the bolt cutters around the lock.
I've always said it'd be a cold day in you know where before I sat in someone elses stand. But the story above about the Gov't worker hanging stands on all the local water holes......nice job Billy Bob! I might have had to sit in his stands just for the cause. :p
Anyone read the obituary for "common sense"?
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Morning Star,
No obituary. The problem with common sense is that unfortunately it's never really been common.
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OK - I don't get it.
I do know-- as I said that a lot of this has to do with where you are in the country.
But here is my bear baiting situation again. Every evening during the bear season; I drive 10.5 miles to park my truck; carry bait in on my back for 45 minutes to get to where my bait is.
I have to tag my bait. I therefore have to have a stand tree within 15 yards of the bait; that is not easy; as trees that will hold a stand are not abundant where I hunt.
So I carry 50 pounds of bait on my back for 45 minutes; and put it out; take my hunting clothes off my backpack or back quiver;put them on- and go up the tree. It may be in the 70s in the day and below freezing at night; its a hot walk in. You get overheated; and the bears have an easy time scenting you.
So you are all telling me that I should take down my stand every day and put it back up...
I am just going to say that you guys don't hunt bears. They lay up where they can watch the bait; and sneaking into the stand: is the only chance you have with them.
I have taken 17 bears with a bow; over 30 years of hunting them- I get picky - may not get one because of it.
So you guys are telling me- that you would take down your stand every night in the dark; and walk out the 45 minutes in the dark; carrying the stand; then come back the next day and carry in the stand and 50 pounds of bait? Or would you walk the stand in; put it up; then go back and get the bait; and put it in?
Because that sounds like a total joke to me.
Yes I have had problems where I bait with one other 'hunter' who not only used my stand; but moved it; took out branches I used to hide better; so he could shoot his rifle in all directions. He drove through the woods (illegal) to get to the stand in his brand new atv.etc etc
And I am the unethical one? NOPE not buying it.
I can understand in areas when your deer hunting on public lands; where claiming a tree and leaving your stand there would be rude.
That does not give a person the right to use your stand. What about these new blinds that fit right over your atv; so you can sit on your atv and be in a blind....? If the atv owner walks off for a break; can I walk over and sit in his blind?
I just cannot believe that you would expect me to walk for 45 minutes; including lots of uphill; to put a stand in everyday. It sounds stupid to me.
And nobody commented on the FACT that outfitters here put up stands year after year after decade; in the same trees; using the same bait spots... would you feel right and ethical to 'use' an outfitters stand on public land?
Maybe you don't live in a wild enough place to have outfitters; but if you had to buy a bait tag; and put out bait for a month to get bears to come into it... and you have to re- :confused: bait each day. Your going to bait the spot; then go and get your stand and put it up and hunt? That would be 3 hours a day walking back and forth to your bait.
All under the eyes of the bears; and you stink up when you sweat! Your going to sweat walking that far in hot weather !!
Well maybe that sounds logical where YOU are; but here it would be: just plain stupid. Your chances of getting a bear would be just about nil; and if the stand thieves are around; well they would probably steal your stand from your truck while your walking your bait in.
I am not trying to insult anyone; but really does your plan ~for where you are~ sound at all like what you would do: here ?
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Where I hunt it is so thick, I hunt pretty deep in outta the way places, I doubt people ever find my stnads. I hunt exclusively on Game Lands, and my stands are mine! LOL
I do know that dog runners place home built wood ladder stands around the area they hunt deer with dogs. It is common to find other folks sitting those sets.
A duck blind on public water is open to first come first serve?? Does the same apply for a deer set?
J
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No one should carry a stand away but from my perspective if you leave the stand there over night you dont really have room to complain if other people use it.
By leaving it there you are preventing others from putting a stand in that spot.
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Brian, good point. Much does depend on the situation. Like for me I have had two back surgeries and have leg problems. I can’t set for long and have to alternate setting and standing. I hunt a tree stand because I can move more and change positions a lot. Because I move a lot I hunt hang on stands in thick trees or big trees that hid me well. I can’t use a climber on them. I can't pack in heavy loads. By time I get my bow, arrows, heavy outer layer (on back so I am not all sweaty when I get there) and small backpack with misc. stuff for a longer days hunt all loaded up that is about all I can manage to carry. I have done a lone wolf hang on and that is not too bad if the walk is not real long and it is early season so I can travel light; even that is when I have a ladder out and set already. In Michigan we can’t uses screw in steps, and I wouldn’t if I could because I don’t think they are safe for me to use. I have to use stick ladders so I can climb them safely. When I hunt I have to pack in the stand, then the ladder. Then I set up and go back for the rest. When I hunt public I set-up in a mid day, and then hunt for a few days. Then I take the stuff out. It is public land so I have no right to save the spot or call it mine, but is it fair for me if someone out runs me to my stand in the morning or gets an early start in the afternoon and beats me to it? If that happens I honestly would have to make several trips through the woods to try and relocate my stand. I would just drive back home.
I know some older hunters and young hunters that can’t pack all that stuff in and out all the time. I have a little girl that will be hunting soon. I can’t expect her to pack all that in and out even a climber the first couple years until she grows more, and I sure can’t pack double equipment. Trying to make 4 or 5 trips in to setup in the morning and then pack it all out after the hunt every time? I don’t think so. I only wish I could still pack all that stuff on my back.
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Brian,
I am with you on this one. Doesn't make any sense for baiting bears to take down your stand. Your bait site is registered with the state for the duration of bear season and then it has to come down with the close of the season. I think bear hunting in Idaho and deer hunting in the east or midwest are comparing apples and oranges. In some states such as Wyoming they only allow one bait per section or something like that. To hunt another man's bear bait would be unethical and unacceptable behavior. Deer densities are much greater with much more overlap of animal ranges especially during the deer rut.
I have not read very many of these posts to know what has been said but I think a deer hunter needs to take his stand down from public land or risk having someone else use that same spot. First come first served is right. Early bird gets the spot. In my book, on public land if someone beats you to a hunting spot you have an obligation to move on, quietly without disturbing your fellow hunter.
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In MA if you put it on public land it is no longer yours. However it is a nice idea that respect still exists.
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Originally posted by J-dog:
A duck blind on public water is open to first come first serve?? Does the same apply for a deer set?
J
Good question and I was thinking the same thing. I am also a fairly serious water fowler when the rut is not going and it is really bad weather for bow hunting early or late in the year. In my state the waterfowl hunting rules and the tree stand rules are not exactly the same. Both require you to mark the blind/stand. The tree stand rule states “not guarantee exclusive use” where the waterfowl rule states first come first served. There is a difference in my mind. Both have limits on when you can put up and when you have to take down a blind/stand.
Due to the much more limited availably of water hunting spots on public land duck blinds can be a major contention and pain. Many hunters will not bother to build blinds, but would rather have someone practical or literally camp out in blinds all night to claim it. I don’t bother building or hunting blinds on pubic land anymore. You have to mark it so it is your responsibility to take it down. You can’t hunt a blind that is not marked. It is not much fun to build and take down a blind you have to then stay up all night to get to hunt. If it is a real good hunting area it is often regulated by lottery for hunting spots just to make sure there is no trouble. I hunt several areas in Indiana and Michigan and that is the way to go. I also hunt places in Indian that require you to check in and sign out an area to hunt. I like that a lot. First come first served, but you know if your first before you hit the woods. I would like every public hunting area to be like that when possible.
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I think it goes to navigable waters - there is a right of way on both sides; and its first come first served on those blinds. Its funny; in Michigan on ponds on private land with many owners- blinds still went ungrudging to the first person there.
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My Dad was having stands stolen off of property that he was leasing. He simply placed a Muzzy about 5 steps up. Next week he went to the stand he said there was so much blood on the tree and on the leaves he thought for sure he had killed the theif.
No more stands were stolen from my dad after that.. Dad was a Hard A$#.
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Hmmm.
Well, I wouldn't be happy if I found someone sitting in my tripod stand. (That is put there on approval of the landowner) And I would definitely have something to say to the lowlife who I found sitting in my stand.
Those who outright steal stands are merely thieves. Not "hunters," most certainly not "sportsmen."
I see this kind of like parking your car on the side of the road. Because it is there, it doesn't give anyone who happens by the "right" to sit in said car, use the car, OR take the damned car! And I think most courts of law would agree with that sentiment.
People have no "right" to utilize your stand (without permission) than they have a "right" to use a vehicle left parked.
If regulations state that a stand/blind etc, is to be removed when not in use, then such equipment should be removed. This is kind of like parking in a "no parking" zone.
While you may be fined, or your stand impounded by the "authorities" it does not give others the right to use, or STEAL your equipment.
If a person believes that a stand/blind is in violation of regional laws, then they must report such a violation. But it doesn't give anyone the right to steal such equipment.
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In N.J. if you leave a stand up on state land it legally becomes open to use by anybody who wants to use it. I don't know of anyone who's ever done it but I can't imagine it going well. I have seen guys there chain in a stand and dump a few buckets of corn on an oak flat that's dropping a couple of tons of acorns assume ownership of the area and all the deer because they are coming in to their bait. A guy could monopolize a nice chunk of ground with a few stands. I think it's a much bigger problem in areas where there is a lot of cometition for a small amount of land.