Trad Gang

Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: BUCKY on March 08, 2009, 12:06:00 PM

Title: Black Glass
Post by: BUCKY on March 08, 2009, 12:06:00 PM
I saw that Jason Kendall (Kanati Bows)said that black glass has become so popular that he will be using only black glass from now on.Do you think it's because it looks good or so many hunters are using blinds?
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: robtattoo on March 08, 2009, 12:14:00 PM
To be fair, I think price is quite a factor too. Hunting bows really don't 'need' to be that pretty & if it performs the same & saves a hundred bucks or so then it's black glass all the way for me!
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: ChetterB on March 08, 2009, 12:47:00 PM
I also talked to two different Bowyers that thought black glass had more " robustness" and possibly more consistant and a tad better performance, just though I would pass it along. I would not know.Thanks Jerry.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: mooseman76 on March 08, 2009, 12:48:00 PM
Another possible reason for its popularity may have to do with all the flaws that are present in the clear glass of today.  It is rare to get find clear glass that doesn't have some streaks and other flaws anymore...Mike
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Holm-Made on March 08, 2009, 01:27:00 PM
Jason is able to keep his costs down with black glass so he can keep his bow prices down.  Only has to buy one type of glass and bamboo for core lams.  He doesn't have to worry about cosmetic flaws in the clear glass either.
Black glass does look sharp and to me seems to be a better product, more dense anyway.
I've certainly thought about it myself.  It would make life easier and cut production time and costs way down.  Chad
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: bushytail on March 08, 2009, 02:18:00 PM
I bought a Tomahawk SS longbow from 3Rivers about 3 years ago.Had problems with the clear fiberglass cracking.On the origanal and the replacement.Dale told me that sometimes they get a bad batch of clear fiberglass.Got my money back and bought a Bear Super Kodiak with the black glass.No problems.Other boyers told me the same story about the clear fiberglass.I know one boyer that only uses black fiberglass for that reason.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Irish Archer on March 08, 2009, 03:09:00 PM
I guess I'm odd man out here. I hate black glass. But for some reason, I'm cool with brown or gray, and you gotta' love clear glass over some nice veeners. I'm kinda' weird I guess.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: jwingman on March 08, 2009, 03:43:00 PM
One little air bubble that will not affect the real performance or longevity of the bow under clear glass and you are making another bow to ship to the customer. Cost to make an extra bow when this happens, right out of the bowyers pocket.
  One little bubble under black glass and the bow ships and all are happy. It keeps costs down. No doubt about it. Just my two cents because I have had one of those devilish little bubbles show it's face in the middle of an otherwise beautiful bow. It is a terrible sight. That along with the poor clear glass available today.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Bob Sarrels on March 08, 2009, 03:46:00 PM
About 90% of the bows I make are clear glass over veneers.  I do get orders for a few black glass bows and every stock bow I build from black glass sells.  It can be very striking with the right riser woods.  As far as price goes I think I pay appx. $4 less a strip for black glass.  Thats $8 total in the price.  When your talking $500 to $800 purchases I don't think thats much of a saving.  As far as performance I had read from several different sources that black was faster.  I doubted it and ran my own test.  I built 4 bows, 2 at 45# and 2 at 50#.  Of each one was clear and one was black with identical corewoods (action boo)  The black was faster , not a lot, maybe 4 to 5 ft, but it was faster.  The only problem with black is if you have not done your job properly and have an area that is not properly glued it will not show up
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: bentpole on March 08, 2009, 04:22:00 PM
BUCKY you know me I love Black Glass! Question for bowyers. Over the years the dribbs and drabs of knowledge I have aquired  has lead me to believe that performance wise Black Glass is the best with brown next and then  green in that order.  True or False? Bob your saying that Black Glass was 4 to 5 FPS faster than clear!!?? Man oh man that's the same benefits as foam limbs compared to standard isn't it? For a lot less bucks too. Hmmmm very interesting.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Holm-Made on March 08, 2009, 04:23:00 PM
Agreed Bob.  The cost of the glass itself isn't the expense the expense is in replacing or discounting bows with cosmetic flaws in or under the glass.  Plus it is a lot of work buying, stocking and grinding/ splicing veneers.  A bow with 3 cores of actionboo and 2 veneers is a 5 lam bow where with colored glass it could be a 3 lam bow without any splicing in the handle.  

I have spoken with Jason on the subject in the past and it is important to him to keep the cost of his bows down in this economy and this is a way in which he can do it.  Personally I like the veneers under the clear glass.  I love that feeling of peeling the tape off a freshly glued up bow and seeing how the veneers look on the bow.  It can be stunning and I'd miss that.  Of course peeling up the tape to reveal flaws can test ones faith and I have even been known to invent some new words that would make a wounded pirate shudder.  Chad
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Randy Morin on March 08, 2009, 04:30:00 PM
I had never built a black glass bow until this year.  Now I have built 4 of them and they are striking to me.  Yeah I may only save about 10 $ per bow but it sure does simplify things.  Bamboo and Black Glass...thats it.  I also think that brown is really classy.

Having said all that I will continue to build with pretty limb woods and clear glass but the quality is in the toilet these days.  Those little white splinters (in the glass) that apparently are not structural problems but only asthetic are a nightmare for me (someone who only wants to build around 10 bows a year). Maybe someday those "splinters" will be "character" and people will pay more for them...not.     :D
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: BOWMARKS on March 08, 2009, 05:41:00 PM
Im with you Irish I like the look of wood the black glass has no class .
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: PV on March 08, 2009, 07:40:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Holm-Made:
 I love that feeling of peeling the tape off a freshly glued up bow and seeing how the veneers look on the bow.  It can be stunning and I'd miss that.  Of course peeling up the tape to reveal flaws can test ones faith and I have even been known to invent some new words that would make a wounded pirate shudder.  Chad
Amen to that Chad  :)  
I prefer black glass in my personal bows.I've found it to be more consistant and a bit faster. The speed is helped by a smaller stack height to hit weight than with clear. Goes well with carbon on the back also.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: wihill on March 08, 2009, 10:07:00 PM
Colored or clear glass doesn't much matter to me, but after looking though all my bows I've noticed that I seem to have more black than clear.

With all the benifits of colored glass over clear, I would love to see the colored glass (such as green, brown, maroon, white, etc) make a comeback - or at least become an option.

There's just something classic about those old colored glass bows.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Jwilliam on March 09, 2009, 07:39:00 AM
Mark,
I can't believe you said "Black Glass Has No Class". I happen to think my 2 Treadway's look really nice. But I guess there just like the guy who shoots them No Class!!!  :biglaugh:  


Bill
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: broketooth on March 09, 2009, 07:45:00 AM
i guess thats why the older class bear bows stay shootable for so long.my k-mag is a year older than me
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Bakes168 on March 09, 2009, 01:52:00 PM
I really like the look of the older colored glass bows. My brother has a Grizzly with brown glass and that thing is a beauty IMHO.  :D
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Jason Kendall on March 09, 2009, 09:11:00 PM
TTT for more Black glass input! Good post!
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: vermonster13 on March 09, 2009, 09:13:00 PM
Most know how I feel about black bows.    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Hornseeker on March 09, 2009, 09:24:00 PM
I love to build and look at black glass, clear glass and brown glass bows... would even love to do green if I could get it...

I have not noticed any significant differences in performance.... but... when Im building for speed I'll use carbon anyways..

I've heard many rumors that "S" glass was better than the standard "E" glass... anyone else got experience with that?

I know the "s" is harder to get...

E
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: DBerrard on March 09, 2009, 09:27:00 PM
I wasn't too sure how I'd like the looks of black glass...but I love it. Hard to believe it drops the price of a bow..but I won't complain  :)
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: 72highboy on March 09, 2009, 09:46:00 PM
I'm love the colored glass too. I would love to see more of it in use. I think my next bow with be either a bacote riser with black glass or a zebra wood riser with brown glass. I am still undecided.....but then again I always love gray action wood with black glass.

For those of you inquiring about other colors Brandon Stahl (from rose oak creations), fowlarcher, and myself looked into that back in Sept. and came up empty handed. Through emails we found out Gordon's has to make too large a batch to make it feasible. Elmont from Bingham's doesn't think he can sell the quantity that Gordon's has to make. If green glass came back I would place an order tomorrow.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Jason Kendall on March 09, 2009, 09:48:00 PM
Hi Dave, I am glad you are liking it, I think Chad said it all in his first post. Simplicity is the biggest factor. I save about $20 on black per bow since I can buy it in bulk. The last time I bought clear in bulk half of it was the really bad stuff that was everywhere about 5 years ago, I dont want to get burned like that again! Finding good wood for veneers, grinding it and throwing half the wood in the burn pile due to flaws also adds considerably to the cost of a clear glass bow. I dont know if I can go away from clear forever because I like veneers too but time will tell. As of now Black is about 80% of my orders.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Jason Kendall on March 09, 2009, 09:50:00 PM
72, I remember that post, I think you had to buy 1000 or more pieces to do it, it would be nice though!
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Hornseeker on March 09, 2009, 09:50:00 PM
Jason is on the money there... Makes me think about raising clear glass prices more yet...
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: PV on March 09, 2009, 10:06:00 PM
Clear glass makes a lot of mighty expensive sawdust......
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on March 10, 2009, 11:26:00 AM
I prefer black glass, myself.  Black is classic and classy.  It's simple and straightforward.

I find beauty in the lines of a bow moreso than the the materials.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: rooster77 on March 10, 2009, 12:11:00 PM
I have one of Jason's black glass bows. Its a shooter and I really like the look of the black glass.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Night Wing on March 10, 2009, 12:28:00 PM
I also like the look of black glass. On my second Blacktail TD recurve I ordered last September, I talked with Norm over the phone and tried to get him to put black glass over the bamboo limbs, but he didn't want to do it that way because of the flaws that might happen. My Belcher Longhorn hybrid longbow has black glass covering the limbs.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Ssamac on March 10, 2009, 12:29:00 PM
If you think of all the Pearson and Bear bows that used black glass over the years and how they have held up, it sure says a lot for it. And that stuff was probably not as good as what we get today in terms of technology. Maybe the QC was better, however.
However, I do agree that the clear glass looks awfully sweet and I prefer it.

sam
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Walt Francis on March 10, 2009, 01:09:00 PM
My thoughts:
Colored glass works as good as clear glass, time has proven that.  Beauty, or good looks, is in the eye of the beholder.  Plastic counter tops and furniture were popular in the 1950’s and 1960’s.  Wood countertops and furniture were popular in the 1980’s and 1990’s.  I guess bows followed the same trend.  While I was growing up my mother told me, keep my skinny ties; “they will be popular again in ten to twenty years and you won’t have to buy new ones”.  She was right.  Might the same thing be happening with bows?

Personally, I prefer the look of wood, even if it is covered with glass, and buy and make all my glass bows with clear glass.  However, my all time favorite bow to shoot was made in the 1950’s, has brown glass on the back and green glass on the belly.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Randy Morin on March 10, 2009, 01:13:00 PM
72highboy...I hear ya, I just built (4) 3 pc. takedowns from Black (silvertone) Dymondwood with Osage flare in Riser and Black Glass limbs over Actionboo cores with dymondwood wedges. The first time ever using Black Glass (and Dymondwood for that matter) but they are gorgeous.  I love-em.  gonna have to order some more materials of same.  Only catch is Black glass shows every little "flaw" after you spray it.  Gotta do some x-tra hand sanding until you get used to it.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Holm-Made on March 10, 2009, 03:26:00 PM
Overlays on black glass really stand out.  Black glass also compliments many of the exotic riser woods that have black streaks in them like Bocote.
  (http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m433/HolmMadeBows/DSCN5921.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: PV on March 10, 2009, 04:05:00 PM
Nice work Chad!
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Sant-Ravenhill on March 10, 2009, 05:56:00 PM
I have a Bear Polar recurve that my dad bought new in 1962. Zebra wood and yellow glass. Very nice looking in my opinion.

I made a simple longbow 15 years ago, with brown glass, maple core and a walnut riser. I thought it too was a good looking bow.

All that said, I sure love seeing all those gorgeous veneers under clear glass!
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: on March 11, 2009, 09:45:00 PM
Jack Howard used black glass for a reason-- for its consistancy - when it is made --the resins are more consistant--- giving you more consistancy-- he always claimed to make the fasted bow--- he never did anything without a reason-- and tested everything he did---
something to think about !  Classicbowman
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: SERGIO VENNERI on March 12, 2009, 07:27:00 AM
I also like Black glass and a shiny finish!
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Rob DiStefano on March 12, 2009, 07:47:00 AM
i really like a longbow with limbs draped in black glass and a woody lammed riser.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/td6-1.jpg)

but i also like a darkened cane limbed longbow with nodes showing under matte clear glass.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/51d.jpg)

fickle me.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: WildmanSC on March 12, 2009, 08:03:00 AM
I really like the RER Arroyo I received last week with the Mahogany riser, Actionboo limbs and black glass.

 (http://usera.ImageCave.com/wlamb1647/RER_Arroyo/IMG_A5411-2.jpg)

 (http://usera.ImageCave.com/wlamb1647/RER_Arroyo/IMG_A5411-4.jpg)

This bow will be inside my blind with me when I go turkey hunting in a week or so.

Bill
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Earl E. Nov...mber on March 12, 2009, 08:40:00 PM
You mean to tell me that is another thing Fred had figured out 40 years ago that we are just  getting around to relearning.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Bob Sarrels on March 12, 2009, 10:56:00 PM
Chad, you are more than right about having to sell cosmetic blemishes.  It is a drag.  And stocking lots of different exotics gives me a pain each time I go to my wood supplier.  Seems like I give him $1000 and can carry it all to the truck in two trips.  That makes me really want to grind my veneers reallllly thin and then the joining gets tougher.  I also love peeling the tape back to get a look at her and its a bummer to see a little bubble (thats my fault) but a pisser to see striations in the glass that were not visable before the glue up.  I like black glass.  Like the way it looks, holds up and shoots.  Will keep makin as many as I can sell.  Really helps if ya put some really wild wood in the riser and limb caps.  Horn tips look good also and are a good selling point.  Sure stinks up the shop tho.  If its nice outside and I have the doors open I get strange dogs showin up.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: SL on March 13, 2009, 06:11:00 AM
I personaly love the colored glass. I think more bowyers should use it.Theres nothing like springing an extra few hundred bucks and ending up with an esoticly ugly bow becuase of streaked or cloudy glass. I wont buy another bow with clear glass. The last 2 new bows I bought with clear really looked bad. I know its not the bowyers fault but it doesnt sit well when you drop that kind of green. I would rather the bowyer would just say it out loud " I wont use clear". MY hats off to you fellows for talking about it.
SL
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Rob DiStefano on March 13, 2009, 06:21:00 AM
it's all about personal aesthetics.  i remember a time, way back when, where the vastly predominant glass colors were black, brown and green ... and white (for those paper poppin' archers).

wouldn't bother me at all if the only glass color available was black.  to each their own.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: wingnut on March 13, 2009, 07:17:00 AM
Heck clear glass wasn't available way back when Fred Bear was making bows.  It is a fairly new thing as far as bows go.

We make about 50-50 black and clear.  Haven't had any trouble with the clear as far as streaks in the glass.  I guess we've been lucky.

I like the look of bamboo or veneers in the limbs but the all black has it's appeal too.

I know black is sure easier too work with.

Dang Rob didn't realize you were that old. LOL

Mike
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Earl E. Nov...mber on March 13, 2009, 08:08:00 AM
Fred was using clear glass way back in 1960 on the Kodiak Specials.. He gave up to for basically the same reasons,, Came out with his Black Beauties as his upper end bows in 1967
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Rob DiStefano on March 13, 2009, 08:08:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by wingnut:
H...

Dang Rob didn't realize you were that old. LOL

Mike
my dad got me shooting the bow back in '55 when i wuz 10 ... naw, that ain't old, is it?  :D
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Charlie Lamb on March 13, 2009, 11:15:00 AM
I was gonna mention what Earl E. did. Too late!

Rob... dirt is older! Does that count?  ;)
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Rob DiStefano on March 13, 2009, 11:22:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Charlie Lamb:
... Rob... dirt is older! Does that count?   ;)  
you betcha!  :D
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Dick in Seattle on March 13, 2009, 11:26:00 AM
just tuned into this one....   Got a glass delivery yesterday... four bows worth of clear and one brown.  Strictly a newbie amateur builder, but...   Just for me the thoughts run thus...     I build bows cuz I can build 'em with wood cuz I like working with wood.   If I couldn't build with wood, I wouldn't build 'em.    If I build with wood I wanna build with pretty wood.  If I couldn't build with pretty wood, I wouldn't build 'em.   If I'm gonna build with pretty wood, I wanna see it.  If I couldn't see it, I wouldn't build 'em.  So, clear glass.

Everybody told me I shouldn't build a laminated bow with oak, but I wanted to see oak, so I did... and Lordy, but I love that bow... so does everyone else who sees it.  It's not the greatest, fastest or most powerful bow around, but heck, a bow's just a wooden spring to propel a stick.  Long's it does that, it's good.

I've had to force myself to consider using bamboo.   I know it's great, etc. but it ain't wood, it's grass and it ain't pretty.   I have a few pieces coming and somewhere down the line I know I'll try it.   That's why I got the brown glass.   Hmmm.... somebody explain to me again why I'm gonna build a bow where I have to hide what I build it with...

Now, in the garage corner I have oak, two kinds of walnut, both straight and curly maple, couple huge planks of yew, osage orange, red elm, hickory... ain't none of that gonna get hidden behind opaque glass.   If the clear glass has a flaw or two, well, after awhile, I won't notice it.    Heck, I have a flaw or two myself, and after 52 years, my wife doesn't notice them either.  (at least she says she doesn't... :^)

Just some thoughts from an OP
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Bob Sarrels on March 13, 2009, 11:42:00 AM
I do wish they would come back with some of those old color.  The 2 different green tones and the tan were nice.  Dont know if I would use that old wine red color unless someone asked for it.  Several years ago the skinny goin around was that Gordon was gonna make a few runs but it never happened. I remember when old man Gordon passed his son decided to cut cost on bow glass and it got terrible for awhile.  I, and I think a few other bowyers went to Canadian glass for awhile until it got cleared up (and went up considerably in price). Had to completly change my thickness receipe for my poundage and then change back when Gordons cleared up.  I still dont think it is a clear as it used to be.  They say the best glass out there is made in Switzerland but they will not market it in the U.S. because we shoot animals with it.  cheeese
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Dick in Seattle on March 13, 2009, 11:47:00 AM
It'd be nice to see that old glass.   I have several of the old longbows with the green glass, and one original that Howard made for himself with the green on the back and a nice yellow tan on the belly.  Since my pattern is an attempt to re-create a vintage bow, that kind of glass would make sense for me.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Rob DiStefano on March 13, 2009, 11:57:00 AM
the limb glass color is all about aesthetics, for me. the only color i prefer is black - there's something really primitive, ominous, foreboding, intimidating, about a hunting longbow with black glass limbs and a really dark gnarly, grainy hardwood riser.  yummy.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Bob Sarrels on March 13, 2009, 12:03:00 PM
I am with ya on that Rob.  And by the way, you ain't old. I was 6 in 55 so I guess you got me beat out by a little.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: katie on March 13, 2009, 02:29:00 PM
I love the look of a beautiful wood bow.  I have a bow with myrtle wood veneers.  It is the most beautiful bow I have ever seen(It hangs on my wall).  Yet, I have 2 bows that have boo core with black glass.  Both bows look super classy!  And they shoot even better.  I was blown away with the performace of boo and black glass.  I would have trouble ordering anything but now.
Just my 2 cents-
Katie
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: ken denton on March 13, 2009, 02:33:00 PM
Do you think that brown glass is the same as black glass as far as producing faster fps than clear? I have one of my go to bows that has brown glass and I love it.It was made in 1999 and is the same speed as the same bow design made in 2009 with all things being equal! The color brown is really a good blend in color! Ken
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Holm-Made on March 13, 2009, 06:06:00 PM
I think we are starting to give the impression that colored glass is far superior to clear glass.  I think it may be a little more dense and a make a little more quicker shooting bow but not so much that you would notice.  Clear glass is still a good product, it's just more of a pain to work with.  The flaws with it are pretty much cosmetic.  
I just don't want for anyone to be turned away from clear glass because it is a proven product.  Sometimes these threads get rolling and the perspective of the topic gets "bent" a little.  Chad
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: SL on March 13, 2009, 06:07:00 PM
I have a black glass with boo limbs Liberty with the osage riser and overlays. It looks sweet.
SL
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Rob DiStefano on March 13, 2009, 06:36:00 PM
Good post, Chad - got to keep proper perspective about limb glass.  

IMO, there's nothing that realistically different 'tween clear and colors that warrants saying one is technically that much better than the other.

It all drives back to aesthetics - pick clear or a color - based on how you want a bow to look, and for no other good reason.  :cool:
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: flint kemper on March 13, 2009, 07:06:00 PM
I have a Miller string follow bow just about finished and it will have brown ski glass front and back. I will post pictures when it arrives. Flint
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Holm-Made on March 13, 2009, 07:34:00 PM
What is ski glass?
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: flint kemper on March 13, 2009, 07:35:00 PM
Chad, it is a type of glass used in making skis. It has a cross weave layer in it for torsional stability. Flint
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: SERGIO VENNERI on March 13, 2009, 08:30:00 PM
I'm like Henry Ford . build it any color you want as long as it's Black!! LOL.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Dick in Seattle on March 13, 2009, 11:27:00 PM
so, ok, what's a source for ski glass?
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Over&Under on March 13, 2009, 11:44:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:

It all drives back to aesthetics - pick clear or a color - based on how you want a bow to look, and for no other good reason.   :cool:  
I was thinking the same thing.

I have seen some bows that just get too busy with all kinds of woods put together, they look a little goddy (spelling) to me.  I think black glass would have been just the ticket to mello out those bows and bring out the black in the exotic woods.

But then again some bows with black glass look too plain....

It is all in how a person looks at it, and how all the woods tie together as far as asthetics go...... well for me anyway.

My father has some Bob Lee bows with plain color risers and black glass that are simply beautiful!!
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Earl E. Nov...mber on March 14, 2009, 06:38:00 AM
I like clear, I love black, but I am most partial to brown and orange.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Charlie Lamb on March 14, 2009, 07:38:00 AM
All of my personal recurves and a few I've made for others have black or brown back and clear on the belly. Best of both.

I do scratch my head a little when I see discussions about what is trad and  know guys who have clear glass and fancy woods are in it.

Except for that short venture of Fred Bear's, the clear glass thing doesn't go back that far in our history.
  ;)
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Tom Anderson on June 30, 2010, 01:52:00 PM
ttt for some renewed interest in black glass
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: MSwickard on June 30, 2010, 02:04:00 PM
Back in April I received my 60" McCullough Griffin 53#@28.  I had it made with black glass back and brown glass belly.  Kingwood riser w/ purpleheart I-Beam w/ overlays.

Tried to give it that "Old School" look of the 50's Kodiak's with the two different colored glasses on the bow.

Works for me...black back can be used in a blind and both black and brown blend well in the woods.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v676/MSwickard/Griffin/2010_0430Griffin0023.jpg)
 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v676/MSwickard/Griffin/2010_0430Griffin0020.jpg)
 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v676/MSwickard/Griffin/2010_0430Griffin0022.jpg)
 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v676/MSwickard/Griffin/2010_0430Griffin0026.jpg)
 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v676/MSwickard/Griffin/2010_0430Griffin0021.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: David Mitchell on June 30, 2010, 04:46:00 PM
I love colored glass--have black, gray, brown, and a Hill built when John Schulz was making them that has black glass on the back and white on the belly.
 (http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy241/davidmitchell_6466/Kramer%20Hill%20Big%20Five/BigFivestringfollow001.jpg)

 (http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy241/davidmitchell_6466/Fred%20Anderson%20Skookum%20Special/005.jpg)

 (http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy241/davidmitchell_6466/Empty/Hill%20Tembo/DSC01201.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: tippit on June 30, 2010, 09:47:00 PM
I like black glass cause it's easier to spray paint...just need one color    :bigsmyl:   Doc

Morrison Cheyenne

   (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/MorrisonSprayedFoamCoreLimbs002.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: fatman on June 30, 2010, 09:52:00 PM
....and black glass is the perfect background for snakeskins

 (http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/fatman60/ORsnakes.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Ben Maher on June 30, 2010, 09:57:00 PM
Dave ... that is a dandy ! I think Hills style bows rock with Black glass !They just look that bit more deadly ...
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: brinkwolf on July 01, 2010, 12:51:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Irish Archer:
I guess I'm odd man out here. I hate black glass. But for some reason, I'm cool with brown or gray, and you gotta' love clear glass over some nice veeners. I'm kinda' weird I guess.
I'm with you on this one. I just luv clear glass over exotic wood. But as for performance I haven't yet seen or read any were black glass was better.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: HATCHCHASER on July 01, 2010, 09:56:00 AM
I have talked with 5 or 6 reputable bowyers that say black glass gives a little more performance.  Maybe 2 fps and a little more stable.  They claim it is stiffer. I know the best shooting bows I have had have had black glass or carbon.  Black glass back and clear glass belly is a good option.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Apex Predator on July 01, 2010, 11:52:00 AM
I'm liking black more and more lately.

 (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/AP03310.jpg)

  (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/AP03310-2.jpg)

  (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/AP03310-3.jpg)

  (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/AP03310-4.jpg)

  (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/AP03310-5.jpg)

  (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/AP03310-6.jpg)

  (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/AP03310-7.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Ragnarok Forge on July 01, 2010, 04:21:00 PM
I would be interested to see some testing results to check on the speeds to see if it is the glass making the bow faster or the limb lamb's.  Not that I doubt that the colored glass could be faster, just that there are a lot of factors between two bows made to the same specs that can account for the difference in speed.  

If it is faster, it would definately be a less expensive choice than purchasing carbon foam limbs to get a faster bow.  

When I spend a large sum of cash on a custom bow, I want her to be the like the girl everyone wants to see and hold.  Custom bows with clear glass just simply make me smile.  Dick from Seattle traded me on a sweet D shape longbow with black glass.  She is a looker too.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: ChuckC on July 01, 2010, 07:54:00 PM
I paint my hunting bows anyway.  Black, green white   who cares, you won't see it when I am ready to hunt.
ChuckC
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Hatrick on July 02, 2010, 06:32:00 AM
Great combination Marty! And a nice job on that connection hinge. That combo reminds me of the brazilian rosewood and black glass Howatts.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: jcar315 on July 02, 2010, 08:03:00 AM
Very interesting thread. I guess I would have to consider myself a colored glass man and not a clear glass over wood guy....but I never really gave it much thought.

I do really like the vintage Bear bows I have with all sorts of colored glass. They are my favorites.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: jhg on July 02, 2010, 08:45:00 AM
If a bows power comes from the compression side (belly) how does putting clear glass there and black on the back give you any performance gains over any other clear glass bow?


Joshua
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Bill Carlsen on July 02, 2010, 08:46:00 AM
Here are two black bows that I think are gorgeous. The first is a phenolic risered Groves Mag III that I recently traded. The second is my DAS with new HEX 5 Border limbs.

  (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/Arrowworks/Grovesprofile.jpg)

  (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/Arrowworks/DAS_border3.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Aeronut on July 02, 2010, 04:58:00 PM
Here is my only, and hopefully last, clear glass trouble.  I shot this bow for one year, took it hunting one time, and killed one deer with it.  Made me sick when the belly glass split on both limbs.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v511/aeronut/Curly%20Hickory%20Bow/DSC06017.jpg)

I just finished a hybrid longbow with black glass and am planning on putting snakeskins on it.  I do like the look of it as it is now though.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v511/aeronut/Snakeskin%20Longbow/DSC06783.jpg)

I agree with Dick in Seattle.  I am a woodworker first and love the look of woodgrain under clear glass.

Dennis
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: smoke1953 on July 02, 2010, 05:14:00 PM
I think the black glass definitely makes the handle wood pop but every scratch shows up clearly so refinishing may be in order on a more regular basis.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Bill Carlsen on July 02, 2010, 05:21:00 PM
Black is beautiful. Some of the most striking bows in the 50's and 60's were the phenolic Wings and the Black Futurewood Bear Kodiaks.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Ryan Rothhaar on July 02, 2010, 06:29:00 PM
I've been waiting to post this....

I'm getting kind of partial to black on the back and white on the belly right now..Jack Howard Jet -

Ryan

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/Jet59Back.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/Jet59Belly.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/Jet59Profile.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: AZ_Shooter on July 02, 2010, 06:43:00 PM
That is a great looking bow!  I really like the contrast between the back and the belly.
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Bonecracker on July 07, 2010, 04:17:00 PM
I just got off the phone with Bob Morrison as he is building me some heavier Long limbs for my DAS Master Hunter. He talked me out of carbon and into black glass limbs with foam! Very close in speed and much cheaper! Cannot wait to shoot them!
Title: Re: Black Glass
Post by: Pete W on July 07, 2010, 05:27:00 PM
Clear glass over fine veneers is certainly lovely to look at, as long as the clear is clear. All to often that clear is streaked and cloudy, which shows up quite well on dark veneers. This has to be a nightmare for the bowyer . Some send these bows out anyway and hope the customer will accept it, others skin the limbs or camo dip them and others sell them at a discount or cut them up.
  Black looks just fine and has no surprises at the peeling of the tape.
 I have both black and clear glass bows that look great. Black glass is a safer bet when it comes to looks. You know what it will look like.
 I have been told by bowyers that they get better performance with black glass, and other bowyers say they don't see any diference.

 Today with the popularity of blinds Black Glass makes a good safe choice and can look classy with the right riser woods, but "good" clear glass and fine looking veneer is always pretty and nice to have.
 I like both.

 Pete