Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: tradtusker on May 26, 2009, 08:27:00 PM
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anyone seen the new Woodsman broadheads?
they look great !!
i am a great fan of the woodsman and have killed a lot of animals with them, the older ones needed a bit of work to get them flat and i always tanto the tips but now its ready to go just like that!
also up'd the rockwell to 50C!
awesome!
http://woodsman.com/ELITEBroadheads.htm
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:thumbsup: :clapper:
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I wonder if they still hiss even with the "when mounted properly" clause...I highly doubt they have solved this dilema yet. Other than that they look like a great head.
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I found my next BH, very nice!! Jason
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They do jook pretty good!
Bisch
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From whay I've seen so far they are awesome. Dale gave me a few early one before we went to Argentina this spring. They mounted true and easy. I could get them hair popping sharp with just a file in less than a minute. Shot a capybara, feral hog and a chital stag down there and a couple turkeys in MI and IN. Dale and Rich also used them to collect some dandy trophies. I think they have another winner.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Dsturgisjr/IArgentinaHog2.jpg)
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Are the screw in heads also one-piece or is there an insert glued in? I couldn't tell from the pics.
Cade
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Originally posted by IronCreekArcher:
I wonder if they still hiss even with the "when mounted properly" clause...I highly doubt they have solved this dilema yet. Other than that they look like a great head.
My 150 grain WW's have never hissed in flight.
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The screw-ins are one piece.
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Great looking heads! Any idea as to cost? I'm sure they will be more expensive, but their not gonna go Silver Flame on us are they?LOL
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Thanks Denny.
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I wish they would forget about venting them so it increases the weight a bit. Otherwise they look pretty good.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Dsturgisjr/Ibh.jpg)
Gun, check these prototype bad boys out. 3" long, 250 grains. They flew OK, but not always.
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That's interesting. Don't know much about arrer-dynamics but wonder if extending the ferrule portion would have helped? Like the STOS. I've often thought a 3 blade version of a STOS would be about perfect. Just my 2 cents. Seems weird that a solid 3 blade would plane. I always heard that a 3 blade flew the best. Hmmmm.
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That's what I thought too. These heads are about the width of a snuffer though; narrower would probably work fine.
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If it is right 28.99 for 6 I say Bravo.
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I'll be buying a few.
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Screw-in and Glue-on are one solid piece.
(http://www.woodsman.com/Images/ELITEscrewinanimation.gif)
The ferrule for the glue-on is precision fit for our BH adapters.
(http://www.woodsman.com/Images/ELITEglueonanimation.gif)
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YEAHHHHHHH!!!!!!
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these look awesome, the 150 screw in is my new answer for my carbons............
I just wish (really wish) they'd make a heavier glue on version for my woodies...........
say a 150 or a 160 glue on?
anyone else might like that?
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Now what are they going to do with all those "OLD" ones. BILL
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Originally posted by Bullfrog 1:
Now what are they going to do with all those "OLD" ones. BILL
The "Original Series" will still be produced and sold. No worries!
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What exactly are the individual improvements/changes made to the former WW? Looks like the ferrule is angular on the outside, and the needle point is filed over a bit. What was Rockwell rating before?
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Making the screw-in a one piece BH is a fantastic improvement. When will they be available?
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Originally posted by Jeff Sample:
What exactly are the individual improvements/changes made to the former WW? Looks like the ferrule is angular on the outside, and the needle point is filed over a bit. What was Rockwell rating before?
The biggest change is that the Woodsman ELITE broadheads are machined from a solid piece of tool-grade steel. No weld points, no weak spots. Being machined from a solid piece they spin true Every Time (screw-in).The tip is a pyramid tip, which has been proven to be the strongest tip for a 3-blade broadhead. The Original Series Woodsman broadheads are Rockwell 44, and had a needle tip.
I have put tons of information on the web site www.Woodsman.com (http://www.Woodsman.com) so I encourage everyone to take a chance to take a look at the site. Thanks guys!
The Woodsman ELITE broadheads are for sale right now in the St. Judes' auctions!! Your chance to get a 3-pack of one of the first 8 packages to be offered for sale. 4 glue-on and 4 screw-in. Signed and Sealed by Dale Karch himself.
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That screw-in is nice. :thumbsup: What kind of pricing will be on these new heads?I hope they don't go crazy with the price like the single bevel heads are doing.
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btw..Will these come sharp from the package?
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They are sharp, but EVERYONE has a different definition of "hunting sharp."
We do not advertise them as "sharp out of the box," but I know for some they would consider them that. Personally, I'd use a hone and they'll be perfect.
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how would these perform for 45# bows..... would they perform as good as a solid two blade?
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I'm a biased opinion, but I think you would be extremely happy with the performance of Woodsman broadheads, original series and Elite.
The long & lean design gives the best penetration, and the 3 blades cut a hole instead of a slit, so the blood trails are some of the easiest to follow.
I know of many people shooting 45# bows using Woodsmans and they wouldn't trade them for the world! But like I said, I'm a bit of a biased opinion.
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These sure look great! When will they be available at 3R for ordering? Any pricing information yet?
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Hi guys. Hi John. I'm the guy who invented and am manufacturing them. Anybody try the "Hammer" small game head? I'm the same guy who makes them. I don't think you will be disapointed in these new broadheads. They are the only 3 blade broadhead machined from solid bar stock on the market. I am packaging the first shippment now so they should have them real soon. Let us know what you think of them after you try them.
Thanks,
Jeff
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Look like great heads...cannot wait to give them a try.
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They either haven't decided on the price or it must be scary high.It looks like a great broadhead that I would love to try,I hope they are priced right.
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With that kind of material and construction costs, they won't be cheap, but will fall into the "you get what you pay for" category. Some will feel they are worth it and some won't. I'd be excited to see a WW without the vents and around 160+ grains. (hint!)
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Fletcher,
The possibility with these heads are limitless. There are alot of good things in store for the future with these heads.
Boomer
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OK, I'll take 6.
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Screw on and glue on are the same price( $ 34.99 for a 3 pack)
Glue on order # 42250-01 125 grain
Screw on order # 42250-10 150 grain
I just ordered a 3 pack and told them to ship when they came in! I think the Elite is a bargin.
I called the 877 number and then 7 to get help. The main order takers may not know about the Elete. Ken
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PRE-ORDER: Should be in late this week or early next. Either way, we are taking orders NOW!!
Screw-in:
http://www.3riversarchery.com/Woodsman+ELITE+Broadheads++Screw-In+3-pk_c0_s0_p0_i4225-3X_product.html
Glue-on:
http://www.3riversarchery.com/Woodsman%26reg%3B+ELITE+Broadheads++Glue-On+3-pk_c0_s0_p0_i4225-2X_product.html
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Follow this link to see our just released Woodsman ELITE broadhead youtube video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUducY_XWNs
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Originally posted by ken denton:
Glue on order # 42250-01 125 grain
Screw on order # 42250-10 150 grain
Item numbers are
4225-01 for 125gr glue-on
4225-10 for 150gr screw-in
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Are there plans for 150+gr in the glue-on? Need heavier heads for my wood shafts.
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Very nice.....
Would be nice to see that screw in version in a few different weights. Say 175 and 200 grains also. :thumbsup:
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Ditto on the 190-200 grn wish list. Woodsmans are great, but I switched a few years ago for want of a heavier head.
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John--I've been using the "Hammer" in 250g for stumping. It is holding up GREAT. I usually crush a Judo point ever 2nd or 3rd outing...I'm at 6 sessions with the Hammer with no quit in sight.
I know a few gus who have tried out the Elites--they are SHARP out of the package from what I hear :thumbsup:
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hmm that's cool!
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I'm with Steve O on the hammer, been using them in place of the judo and love. they do a nice job on small game also.
the new BH's look awesome as well. being a solid one piece really caught my attention.
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Cool video guys! :clapper:
Boomer
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Any plans for 125gn screw in?
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Guys,
The nice thing about the way that the new Woodsman Elites are being produced is that there is some flexability here and there are new weight that we can make up. Right now there are no plans to have any new weights available before this hunting season beyond the 125 grain glue on and the 150 grain screw in. There has been months and months of planning and testing behind the scenes to get these out and 3Rivers is going to concentrate on the production of these two designs for the time being.
That being said.. the future is VERY BRIGHT to now be able fill some of the request that have been made for many many years. It would really help in the meantime if you have a particular weight Woodsman that has been your "dream weight" in glue on or screw in, email them to [email protected]. From that data we will be able to determine what be the next weight might be. dino
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If they do anything i would want to see them remove the vents. Then see what it ways, no vents would help penetration more than anything.
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I've never found penetration to be an issue with the Woodsman and I shoot bows in the mid to upper 40's.
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Johnathan/Dale: Could you guys please send me about a gross of screw-ins to field-test? They look great... and don't forget.. the lifetime guarantee. Good job guys. Thanks! BW
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Wonder if the new vent configuration will cut the hiss? gonna go ahead and get some on order.
J
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Barry,
Sent ya an email. dino
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Hey Jeff,
You stated [/QB]They are the only 3 blade broadhead machined from solid bar stock on the market.[/QB]
What about the 300 X-treem?
homebru
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Originally posted by Homebru:
Hey Jeff,
You stated [/b]They are the only 3 blade broadhead machined from solid bar stock on the market.[/QB]
What about the 300 X-treem?
homebru [/QB]
From Pete Ward's site:
"Made with MIM molded stainless steel"
Not sure what MIM is but its a molded head like G5 not machined from solid bar stock, thats the difference. dino
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Some heavy glue ons that match field point weight 160 and 190 grn. would be nice for those of us that hunt with wood shafts. If you make any even heavier,225,250,275, a matching field point would be nice.
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Woodsman Elite broadheads are now in-stock and for sale. Call or go to 3RiversArchery.com if you haven't already.
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I have one here that Terry sent me......
Just got it.....some initial thoughts after looking at it quick.....
looks to be very precise and strong....
but I'm a little disappointed that they are actually smaller than the originals. Shorter and not as wide as the WW.....
I'll take some pix to show the diff's
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J Dog I am glad I am not the only one on this site who has the hissing problem and can't get rid of it. I second the deletion of the vents for added weight and Guru I am interested to see the pics. Why the deviation from the 3:1 ratio...was that not all the hype about the original design? To change that makes me wonder... :confused:
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See what happens when you dont drop into Tradgang often enough.... someone goes and builds a fine looking Broad head!
Looking forward to trying these out. Every Deer I've shot with a WW has ben down and out in sight.
ak.
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Ironcreek,
The last ones I bought were the precision grind and the dimensions on them were not close to the originals I have. They shortened them and added width also and still advertise the 3-1 ratio. Still a good head but getting close to the small to mid size snuffers I have had great results with. Just my observation.
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i gotta agree with guru - in comparing the standard and new elite woodsmans, the elite 1pc digitally mics at 2.521" long and .835" wide (blade-to-blade width), while the standard is 2.714" long and .918" in width.
the elite is just beautifully built, but i sure wish they didn't make it smaller (i'm guessing part of the smaller size is to hit the 125 grain weight?).
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Well I will agree I hate to see any broadhead go smaller instead of bigger.I guess the size and 3 head packaging is geared to getting some of the wheelbow market.Good move for business but always results in smaller broadheads for those of us that like bigger. :D
I still remember my disapointment when Simmons planned on making a stainless screw-in shark.I was so excited that I was going to have my perfect broadhead.They let me down so bad when they shrunk it down to a tiny little thing like everything else on the market. :(
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I'll hop on this one.
If I had my druthers, I'd druther they'd have taken the original design, increased the cutting diameter to 1 1/8" (or even 1 1/4") and made the head proportionally longer.
That would be a bad mamma jamma.
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I should add that so many archers and manufacturers are stuck on the antiquated idea of 125 grain broadheads.
Time to move on. The general shooting public is no longer afraid of heavier broadheads.
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Well since many of us shoot carbon or aluminum and use glue on heads we are always shooting more than 125gns.On an aluminum adapter our 125s come out close to 175-180gns.It would make sense to make screw-ins to match that weight and the weight of the 125 on a steel adapter like many shoot.You should be able to make the head a little larger and meet those weights without problems. :)
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Originally posted by Charlie Lamb:
I'll hop on this one.
If I had my druthers, I'd druther they'd have taken the original design, increased the cutting diameter to 1 1/8" (or even 1 1/4") and made the head proportionally longer.
That would be a bad mamma jamma.
yeah man, now yer talkin', right on!!!
i'll put a pre-order in for 2 dozen ...
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Personally I am looking forward to trying them out even though they are a little smaller than the originals. Still think they are going to be deadly on deer and hogs. But I would not hesitate to buy some larger ones if they were made in the future. Great thing about shooting Trad is there is something out there for everyone.
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Originally posted by Charlie Lamb:
I should add that so many archers and manufacturers are stuck on the antiquated idea of 125 grain broadheads.
Time to move on. The general shooting public is no longer afraid of heavier broadheads.
They aint only gonna make one weight.....
Might not just make one size....
I hope so, as I'm a big chop guy. I love the WWs for hogs as they are for sure....would like to see a bigger WW like what Charlie said...with THIS type construction. It is one well made head for sure.
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Fine looking head but I gotta float my stick along with Mr. Lamb about a bigger heavier head instead of miniturization. I've been dowhunting for 36 years and have never used a 125 grain broadhead. Even if it came in that weight and I glued it onto a wooden shaft I added weight, usually with split shot or worm weights from my fishing tackle. All the research on front loading can't and shouldn't be ignored.
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Originally posted by IronCreekArcher:
I wonder if they still hiss even with the "when mounted properly" clause...I highly doubt they have solved this dilema yet. Other than that they look like a great head.
That issue was addressed.
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Well I totally agree with Mr. Lamb - I will definantly be ordering a couple packs of these for this deer season. They look awesome though not held one in hand yet. 125 grain plus 100 grain steel adapter will get me kickin somewhere in the 225 range.
Will keep fingers crossed for more variety in the WW in the future.
J
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Oh yeah and the fact they made the ferrul of the BHd custom for their adapters is pretty cool too. Good job!
J
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Originally posted by Night Wing:
Originally posted by IronCreekArcher:
I wonder if they still hiss even with the "when mounted properly" clause...I highly doubt they have solved this dilema yet. Other than that they look like a great head.
My 150 grain WW's have never hissed in flight. [/b]
Mine either.
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Pix are loading....
I don't want you to think that I don't like the new heads....they look great, and should penetrate awesome! Just that I surprised that they were smaller.....but I always used the WW for just that purpose. If I felt I needed shoot something that needed a little better penetration that my big Snuffers....I never hesitate to use a WW....
Ya'll know I like my 3blades!
As far as keeping the 3:1 ratio, I think they kept it the same by making them a little narrower as well as a little shorter.....
The tip still needs to be nipped a little more in my opinion.....it's barely what I would call a "chiseled".....at least this one that I have ....
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Sorry for the multiple posts...just catching up on this thread.
I sure don't have a problem with vents...but would like to see a version larger than the original.....175 grain screw in....150 grain glue on same dimensions....bout the length of a 160 grain snuffer with the width of a 125 snuffer or slightly less....
Give me a few...got some pics comming....
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Curt...they did push one through a quarter though with no tip damage....ok...back to the pics...
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Here's the hybrid I was talking about...length of a 160 - width of a 125.
160 Snuffer.......Hybrid Snuffer........125 Snuffer
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/3bladecompare1.jpg)
125 Snuffer......Wensel Original......Wensel Elite
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/3bladecompare2.jpg)
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160 Snuffer, WW, and the new Woodsman.....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Guru39/TG%20stuff/P1040590.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Guru39/TG%20stuff/P1040594.jpg)
reverse order....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Guru39/TG%20stuff/P1040592.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Guru39/TG%20stuff/P1040593.jpg)
Old and new.....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Guru39/TG%20stuff/P1040597.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Guru39/TG%20stuff/P1040598.jpg)
New and old....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Guru39/TG%20stuff/P1040599.jpg)
Front to back....new Woodsman, WW, and 160 Snuffer....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Guru39/TG%20stuff/P1040600.jpg)
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Looks like you posted as I was bud....all bh's in my pix are brand new,never sharpened yet....
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Yeah...good combo mix between us....I knew you were gonna post a few like you did...so I just posted a couple.
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Well, after looking at the pictures, I am really disappointed in the size of the Elites. I'd like to see them made to the same dimensions as the original and let the weight take care of itself. Almost all of us add point weight anyway, so the 125 grains means nothing. With these, it looks like we lose the 3:1 ratio and the cutting diameter of the original. I'd also like to see them leave the point alone. I like the needle point. If others don't, a file will fix that in a few strokes, but I can't put the needle back on once it's gone.
As far as hissing, I've never noticed it with the originals, so if these are the same :thumbsup:
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yip thats a real pity they are smaller! Dam
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Looks like an absolutely fabulous BH! A little smaller than the original, but the ratios work out the same according to Rob's measurements - still 3 to 1. The difference is likely in the material used and the venting, so the head had to be slightly smaller to come out on weight. The venting IMO is a big improvement - it will strengthen the blades considerably. Any WW's that I've managed to damage have taken a bend in the blade above the vent.
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Guys,
I have a hand full of pototypes here ground and unground and these are the sizes from the micrometer. Measurements are tip to tip along the cutting edge of the blade and then accross two blades tip to tip at the very back.
Unsharpended Factory Woodsman as in the package:
L = 2.6195
W = .9480
Sharpened Woodsman w/ a pyramid tip like the elite:
L = 2.5055
W = .8865
Note the width loss in material getting the blades sharpened. Length loss is mostly due to the pyramid tip to compare apple to apples.
Elite Prototype Needle tip non-sharpened:
L = 2.4650
W = .8655
Factory Elite Sharpened as they would be in the package w/pyramid tip:
L = 2.3805
W = .8525
Yes they are slighly smaller. Most is due to the restraints of steel and blade thickness coupled with the design and weight determined the size. If made the exact length and width of an Original Woodsman they would be heavier. Yes there are plans for larger and heavier heads. That is down the road at the moment but it is being worked on. Don't want to let the cat out of the bag just yet ;) You can always email suggestions to [email protected] so they can be compiled and evaluated. dino
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Originally posted by southpawshooter:
The venting IMO is a big improvement - it will strengthen the blades considerably. Any WW's that I've managed to damage have taken a bend in the blade above the vent.
Absolutely Southpaw, forgot to point that out too. I'm the same way. Every time I bent one it was right there in the blade. The support in the vent was meant to stregthen that point. The ferrule is considerably beefier too. Not going to dent one out of round. dino
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Dino...I have some carbon collars that I haven't played with yet....how about expaining how these things work exactly.
Good stuff here...thanks for your input! :thumbsup:
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Never mind Dino....I found it.
"Re-enforce your Traditional Only® and Arrow Dynamics carbon arrows with these carbon collar aluminum footings. Installed behind the insert (before mounting inserts), these strengthen your Traditional Only® and Arrow Dynamics carbon arrows to help protect from shattering when hitting a hard surface. Note: Can also be used on parallel shafts to re-enforce the nock end."
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A tad smaller or not, these look like great heads. :thumbsup:
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(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q28/deanvanderhorst/CIMG1952.jpg)
Hey Terry, here is a pic of them in action. 60 lb longbow at close quarters with an Ash tree. The "blossumed shaft" took one shot, the other arrow I shot repeatedly at the tree. Everybody testing them has been having a blast torturing them trying to destroy the collar or the shaft. These even performed better than footing with aluminum shaft cut offs in our testing. The collars could take more repeated hits without failure which really suprised me. dino
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Dino,
Do the new heads hiss like the old ones? I know some people don't have that problem but both my father and I can't get the 125 grain precision grind models to stop hissing. Our bows are perfectly tuned shooting bullet holes through paper with bare shafts and I aligned the blades with the fletch. Any other suggestions to get them to stop hissing?
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ICA, are you sure it's the WW that's hissing? I've had feathers hiss, especially when they are new, but I sure can't hear anything coming from my WW or Snuffers. Neither can the deer apparently ;)
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Although I didn't inquire about hissing...Johnathan did inform me that was address as he was giving me all the lowdown on the new Elites.
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The more twist you put on your feathers the more noise you get from vented heads.Smaller feathers fletch offset instead of helical helps a lot.Knocking any sharp edges off the vent holes helps a lot as well.I have never had the noise bother anything I have shot with heads that hissed however anyway.
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I promise its the head...I have stood down range on the riser side of my dads bow 15 yards perpendicular to the target and could hear the Woodsman the whole way...sounded very hissy to me. I switched the head to a Magnus two-blade and the hiss stopped and all I could hear was the very faint noise of the feathers.
Terry, thanks for the info on the new head.
James...thanks for the advice I will try that.
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ICA,
I'm not totally sure what the hissing is that some report to hear. Not saying that it doesn't exist, I just don't think that I've ever experienced it to the same level as others have. But from all our shooting tests Woodsmans and other heads do make more flight noise than plain field points all else being equal.
I personally spent a good deal of time on broadhead noise with several different broadheads and designs. God bless my father that put up with my numberous requests to listen to broadheads, field points, feathers and arrow combinations as I shot them past him;) I had to enlist his help and that of others too to listen to arrows in flight because from the beginning I couldn't tell a difference myself of one head to the next from behind the bow. Some designs were discluded for the volume of noise that they created. Heads were tested under several conditions situations that amplified arrow noise.
Couple of results that came from out tests. Firstly, no one could tell what head was coming till AFTER the arrow passed them. This follows anything I've every personally experienced in the woods. If I've missed a totally calm unalert animal, they react to the noise of the arrow past them, not coming at them. Again, just my experience.
Secondly, every comination that we tested head to head against a field point it was always quieter than a broadhead. Under amplified conditions a field point disturbes less air and thus makes less noise compared to a broadhead.
Lastly, after comparing all of our head combinations and designs we concluded in blind testing that the new Elite made less flight noise than even the original head.
So in a long way around to answer your question, all of us involved did take the issue of noise very seriously and feel confident that we have produced a head that is quieter than the original. dino
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Thanks a bunch dino and I thank you guys for taking the new design seriously. I may get a wild hair and try them this summer. Thanks again and keep up the good work.
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The biggest buck I ever kill was shot with a Zephyr Sasquatch 4 blade....with the bleeder absent as it kept hanging up on the foam on the bow quiver(I spot glue them in now)...and some of you know what that little bleeder slot will do when shot....that arrow whistled, didn't hiss, but whistled all the way to the goody box just over 30 yards away.
I've always been more concerned with bow noise than head noise as they are more likely to duck the bowstring....but I too don't like noisy arrows either.
Thanks again for all the info Dino....I gotta work up those collars on a dozen soon.
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BTW...I forgot to ask....is there a 'bump stop' inside the ferrule?...looks like there a 'ring' down near where the adapter would bottom out.
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seems from Gurus pics that the new elites are significantly smalle in width. Are they 1 inch wide at the widest point or less?
I love the fact of a one solid piece head like this, but to Terry's point, wish they made one a little bigger both in weight and size.
Does anyone know if thats in the works? With my luck I would thorw the money down for some and come to find out that larger versions will be available in the near future.
As far as the collars are concerned are those for 5/16 shafts only? Anything like this available for AD Trad shafts?
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Hey dino, have you tried the collars on a Heritage 90? Sure would be nice if one fit the 90's as i've driven the inserts into more than a couple!
Thanks...Ken
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that would be it :)
Thanks Terry !
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I prefer "hissing" arrows. They sound just like the ones Howard Hill shot the bad guys with in The Adventures of Robin Hood:^)
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Yeah Gary...I've got some made up to shoot that 'Buzzzzzz' when I shoot for kids groups or if I'm in camp with some compounders. Shooting cans with buzzin arrows gets there attention...specially when its after dark. :eek:
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Been arguing in my mind between my snuffers and a two blade this year for my elk...well I think this fits the bill.
3 blades, narrower, a bit smaller yet durable. perfect. Thanks for all the pics guys!
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Elk probably not a problem with the elites....I killed a 2000# Bison with the original woodsman.
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Denny Sturgis & 3R Shooter..... thanks for posting and sharing your feedback. I really like this head. And can't wait to try them out!
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Terry,
That 'bump stop' at the bottom of the ferrule was no intented for that. I measured it at 1.0455 and all of the inserts that we have seat tightly before they reach that depth. If anyone finds anything differently let us know. But that bottom of the ferrule is were the weight is fine tuned in the machining process.
Ken,
No plans on collars for the Heritage 90s right now. I agree that they would be nice but that particular size would have to become more popular to support making more parts for them. When they do catch on more there is a good chance they will be made. dino
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wish you would make a true screw in model. I really don't like gluing in inserts
Dan
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never mind, just went to the web site and checked out the rest of them. I think one of these may be on my arrows this year. Looks awesome! The only thing I could wish for would be more weight choices, but thus far, looks like a great design! Congrats on the new heads.
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Deer have been no problem,but the darn turkey tags need lots of salt and pepper! Turkeys - 3 Russ - 0 dammit!
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Think of it this way guys. 2 one inch holes instead of one 1-1/4" hole. :D
Boomer
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I hope I didn't come across as negative on the new BH....I just was surprised that it was smaller. It's a great BH, and one I WILL use! Well once I use up the 20 or so WW I have now....
well done fellas and I can't wait to see what else you come up with....hopefully a 160 version or how about a 250gr about an 1 1/2" wide :clapper:
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Boomer....2- 1 1/4 inch holes come standard already. :D
I think Rob shut off the gemelins...so here ya go ;>)
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Terry ;) :)
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Well I just ordered 2 packs of the glue ons along with some other stuff I been needing - ifin yall don't hear from me for awhile it is becasue my wife has banned me from the puter! and the card, and the telephone, and the catalogs.
There has to be a cure for this cotton-pickin addiction!
I'll be in my foxhole,
J
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J-dog the cure is to hit the lottery then no cash worries. lol
I was getting real excited over these until I found out they have a smaller cutting diameter, bummer.
Now increase the diameter as much as you can keeping close to 3:1 while getting 200-225 gr screw in, awesome one piece head. It seems a 200 gr head is a popular choice for those wanting higher foc.
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Yeah, they are smaller but I think these 115 pound WTs won't mind, now if I ever get a chance a ta NC bear he might have something to say :help: !
I really hope they come out with more variety soon!!!!
J
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woodsmans are my favorite heads. But the last two packages I bought had blades that were curved. By this I mean they would not sit flat on a file and were difficult to sharpen. Hopefully the new ones will be good. I mean nothing negative about them. Still my favorite head, but I can't use the last to packages I bought.
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What Katman said. Think I'll wait.
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Agree as others said - do away with the vents and let the weight fall where it may.
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They say iut is a 1" cut diameter? if this is so how much was the old one? I thought they said it was a one inch cut diameter.
Just curious as it doesn't have the diameter of the originals.
Still looks ot be a great head
J
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I hope I didn't come across as negative on the new BH....I just was surprised that it was smaller. It's a great BH, and one I WILL use! Well once I use up the 20 or so WW I have now....
Thanks for putting up the pics. I've had such great success with the original heads, I'm dissappointed to see even a slight width change, especially to smaller.
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JDog....the specs of both heads are on this thread a page or 2 back.
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Guys,
This head is Machined from one inch bar stock. The diameter is one inch. You are not going to get a one inch measurement measuring across two adjacent blades, but the hole it cuts is one inch. The old Woodsman head starts out larger tahn one inch, but by the time you get it filed down to where the blades all clean up then it is closer to one inch.
Boomer
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I'm just curious, What will the MINUTE size difference make? What could you NOT kill due to the fact that this head is one tenth smaller than the old one? I looks stronger, straighter and more "arrow" dynamic. I would rather shoot a head like this, that will shoot straight and penetrate deep. 7/8" or 1 1/4" thought the lungs still equals a dead animal. Plus the narrow head has a better chance of shooting completely thru the animal. I believe that depth of the wound channel on alot of shots is more important than width. Of course I have only killed about 2 dozen bull elk with a bow and arrow.
If you look at the Grizzly heads they are not that wide after you grind and sharpen them, just over an inch, and they have one less blade!
Any way enough of my ranting, I really like the head! :goldtooth:
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Amen elksong, I agree totally. I love my snuffers for whitetails, but jsut got 3 packs of these in the mail for Montana Elk in September. The tiny difference will not make any difference at all
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The difference is so small?? look at Ashby's extremely modified grizzly? I cannot remember but I know it cannot be an inch wide.
Never killed an elk before just WTs, hogs, but this difference is miniscule at best. I like big cutting diameters dont get me wrong and I hope they make some variety as stated but elksong makes a good point.
I'll have my hands on some here shortly though I cannot give any better pics then Guru and Terry. Their measurements and all are helpful.
each his own I reckon,
J
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Course think if it this way - a new spin - they have the same 125 grains in a more compact size -plus they raised the hardness level to 50.
Little jobber is built like a tank!
LOL
J
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For us its a legal issue. 7/8" minimum. I know they're 1" cut dia. etc. etc. And I agree that will kill stuff. But I only need one anal fish cop to check me for his version of legal and there goes my season. Mind you that has only happened once in 21 yrs. hunting up here (and he cut his thumb :D ). Besides as stated more weight is better, for my set-up. My 2 cents.
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I with you on this elksong. For my elk heads, these look great. look forward to it this year.
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Yep it's all about penetration. In one side and out the other. :D
Boomer
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So is this head under the 7/8" min diameter or width required for Colorado? They look like a dandy 3 blade head for elk.
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On a 3-blade mic they measure out at .995". You draw a 1" circle on a paper or cardboard and it will cut it.
As the Colorado regs below state "outside diameter." That is the same as cutting diameter, so they will be legal in states requiring the 7/8" minimum.
Colorado regs state:
"Handheld bows, including compound bows, using arrows equipped with a broadhead with an outside diameter or width of at least 7/8ths of an inch with no less than two steel cutting edges."
On page #3 in the print book, or page #5 of the PDF in this link:
http://wildlife.state.co.us/NR/rdonlyres/6E977561-C613-466D-BCFC-2CA9C9C91CD9/0/Ch02.pdf
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They state it is a 1" diameter, it is a 1 inch diameter, it hits the 1" mark it is legal. We have the same 7/8" law here in NC.
J
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Cool, thanks for the clarification. Things get hard to understand with regulations.
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I tried attaching the image of several heads pulled from 2 different cinder blocks. As you can see, the tips do break off. Not saying the broadheads are indestructible, just really strong. Got great penetration, as I needed the pliers to get them out. Not an easy task.
Johnathan Karch
3Rivers Archery
(http://www.3riversarchery.com/images/misc/PulledWoodsmanEliteHeads.jpg)
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The thing that sucks is that MOST Wildlife Officers have little to no understanding of archery and the related equip. I am going to take a broadhead down to the local office and see what they say this -"broadhead with an outside diameter or width of at least 7/8ths of an inch" means to them.
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I got mine today and they are impressive. They are the screw in. Remember, a one inch hole is vey big when it has a pump behind it, that being the heart. Think about a radiator hose and how much it sprays with just a pinhole in it. Granted more pressure, but a mute point in my opinion.
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The above in regard to the posts about a small hole, not game laws.
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For anyone who doubts the legality of the 7/8" limit, the best way to prove it is to drill a 7/8" hole. I think you will find it won't drop through, which means it is perfectly legal.
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Gene,
Nice to see someone apply perfect hands-on logic to resolve the question. Anyone ever tell you that you're fairly smart? =^)
Kevin Dill
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Easy Kevin - don't get his head any bigger than it already is!
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Elksong, of course the new style will kill just as dead, as well as being a tougher head. I was expressing my wish for a wider cutting diameter and heavier head with this style for whitetails. Here in the low country of South Caroline we hunt in and around a lot of swamps so getting complete penetration and lots of spore on the ground helps. For larger game like Elk I would certainly prefer the slightly narrower head to maximize my penetration but our whitetails here rarely get to 200 lbs. I still think its a great head and design improvement just would like a little larger cutting diameter for my application.
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Guys, just returned from Alberta with two bears killed with original Woodsmen. First one, the head BROKE the offside upper leg bone, just shattered it. Second one was your clean pass through.
The other guy in camp was a state-of-the-art guy, really a great partner to hunt with who owns an archery shop and therefore has basically the whole gamut to choose from with equipment. He killed two bears, both broadside double-lungers but not a clean pass-through in either case. His broadhead, the Rage-2, in both case lost BOTH of its blades despite not hitting anything hard. My new friend was, to say the least, dismayed at the broadhead's performance. His pinpoint accuracy saved the day, and I'll bet he's using a different broadhead in the fall. He was quizzing me a lot and looking over my Woodsmans. In both cases, I just resharpened the head in less than 5 minutes and they were good to go again, and again, and again...
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They wouldn't plane if your arrows are spined right. I have the 300 Extreme bhs and they have a very close profile to a nonvented Woodsman and fly like darts.
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I would keep the vents and increase the size to 1 1/16". this makes it longer but not by too much. It would add the extra weight alot of guys want.
I'm an old aircraft mechanic.....I believe that Any mis-alignment of a non vented broadhead or deviation from your form that results in a de tunned set up means bad arrow flight.
Let the air pass through the head. The bow sound gets to the animal before the hiss.
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LPM, its not the noise but the increased drag thru tissue the vented head yields is why I would prefer non vented, not to mention the increased strength of the blade. I have read posts of the 300 extreme flying well, but the extra foc may aid this.