Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: capt eddie on August 21, 2009, 10:24:00 PM
-
I have thought about switching from POC arrows to carbon. I want to stick with either Grizzlystik or AD Hammerhead. What are the advantages and disadvantages of each. I am looking for the consistance that I can not get from POC. I shoot 60LB Treestick, 69LB longbow, 74LB Hatfield. So that means I have three differant spine POC to deal with. Can I get one spine carbon to shoot out of all three bows. I can add weight to the heads to get the right results.
-
I think you'll do great with the Hammerheads.
I shoot Trad Lites out of bows from 45# to 65#, and oint weight from 225 to 350gr. IMO, the AD shafts are the most forgiving out there
Good Luck :thumbsup:
-
I was a die hard cedar fan and thought I'd never give them up. Then a friend of mine set me up with CX heritage 150's and some 200 grain points. I'm ruined!!! :biglaugh: If I do miss, it's high or low and almost never right or left.
-
I love the AD Hammerheads! In my own experiments the Hammer head out penetrated a gold tip 5575 by at least 40% in pork shoulder, foam and a rack of freezer burned buffalo ribs I had. They fly like a dart out of everything from my 40 pound 1963 Pearson colt to a 90 pound English long bow.(not my bow)
The grizzly sticks were less forgiving, stiff for stated spine and IMO but ugly.(they look like a wheelies favorite arrow)I also think a arrow of that cost should last more than a year. However I am very impressed with Alaska Bowhunting Supplies new line of broadheads.
-
I like the Herritage arrows.They`ll last and they`re tuff.They also fool the compounders thinking they`re cedar arrows.
-
I shoot the hammerheads....and will probably never shoot a different shaft. Love those Hammerheads. I have shot everything from a 100 grain head up to 250 grain and al shoot like darts.
-
Griz sticks are hard to tune if you ask me. I like the thinnys AXIS or MFX. They blow through game. Bottom line is you can't beat carbon for pure power.
-
Easton ST Epics seem to work for me, good solid shaft and not over priced.
-
the arrow dynimic hammerheads,as stated above should be able to be tuned to shoot out of all your bow,i have shot them out of bows down to 35#s with good flight.regards,robert :thumbsup: :campfire: :coffee:
-
Do you buy the Hammerhead off thier web site? I did not see them listed. I saw the Hammerheads listed at Three Rivers, shafts only not finished. All I need is the shafts.
-
Ted at Raptor has them. He is a sponsor here
-
I just got back from Kauai. This is the first time using my new Hammerheads. All I can say is.... I'll never use any thing else. One arrow stood up to an awful lot of lava rock. The same arrow did a great job on a goat. I'm sold.
-
Originally posted by Arwin:
I was a die hard cedar fan and thought I'd never give them up. Then a friend of mine set me up with CX heritage 150's and some 200 grain points. I'm ruined!!! :biglaugh: If I do miss, it's high or low and almost never right or left.
Thats funny, I was a die hard carbon fan and tried wood arrows. Now I will never go back to carbons...lol.
-
I shoot a lot of arrows every day and i just like the way cabon arrows hold up. Oh yea they shoot great also.
-
Paul at Badger Arrows, a sponsor here also, has AD Hammerheads. Quick shipment and a good guy to deal with also. Love my Hammerhead TradLites.
-
I took some newly received 'carbonwood vapor V-Maxx' carbon arrows (5000) ( thanks Orton !).
I put a zwickey on one; and field points on two others.
I shot one of the field points at a pop can at 25 yards and tapped it. Second arrow hit an inch from the first; the zwickey killed the can.
Whats that tell you?
I love wood arrows; but I have had problems with them - to the point I am using these carbons; or some 2216s this year.
-
Capt Eddie. Of the two arrows you want to use, I would recommend the Hammerheads. As stated before the Hammerheads are more forgiving. With most parallel shafts like some of the others mentioned, you can get away with using one spine, but would need to vary point weight and maybe the shaft length as well to accommodate your individual bows. With the tapered Hammerheads, once you get your length, just play with the point weight.
-
I agree with the recommendation of Paul at Badger Arrows as well as the AD Hammerheads or Hammerhead Lites. The Grizzly Sticks are good shafts, and I have some of them, but all the AD shafts are great. For your poundage of bows, I would go with the Hammerhead shafts, not the Lites, although the Lites would also work great for most anything you would want to shoot. If you really want your arrows to be nearly bullet proof, use brass inserts and aluminum collars up front as well as uni-bushings and g-nocks at the rear. You will be amazed at how well the arrows fly and how sturdy they are under abuse!
Allan
-
I'm shooting carbons at the moment and am flirting with going back to wood. For the cost, I expect these things to last longer than they seem to last.
At least when a wood arrow breaks, you kind of expect that and it's not like you've spent a fortune on it. From 3Rivers, I can get a dozen POC shafts for about the price of one of the carbon arrows I'm currently shooting (a bit apples and oranges, I realize).
I dunno - thinking about it.
-
Carbon arrows are ugly and just don't appeal to me like a good set of footed wood arrows. That said, they are always straight, quick to build, easy to tune, each arrow will weigh the same, fly straight if properly tuned and penetrate well due to the small shaft diameter compared to wood. They shoot well and hold up. When the feathers wear out just peel the wrap and feathers off and go again, fletch tape makes a quick job of it.
-
Will the shafts come with brass bushings, aluminum collars, uni-bushing and g-nock? What is all this stuff?
-
I offer the brass inserts, collars, and unibushings as options. They come with aluminum inserts and AD's standard nock.
-
No, the shafts won't come with all those things. They only come with standard aluminum inserts and nocks which are okay but not what I prefer. If you want to have someone build the arrows for you, talk to Paul Mattson at Badger Arrows and he can give you all the information and set you up with finished arrows. He can also sell you the components if you want to build them yourself. To understand what those items are, you could also go to the 3 Rivers Archery website and look at them under the arrow building supplies. It sounds like you have not built many arrows, and if I am right about that then you probably ought to let Paul build them for you. He does a great job.
Allan
-
I have built hundreds of POC. I have not even looked at carbon until now. I have 50 plus POC made up with broadheads but maybe 5 that I would trust to shoot at a deer or elk. I am looking for a shaft that I can trust 100%. After laying in a boat all day or thrown in the back of a truck. Every POC needs to be checked before it is put on the string. I want to be able to reach in the quiver and know that every arrow will be perfect. Can AD carbon give me that??
-
To me carbon only. Yes they are ugly, and yes wooden shafts look much better. But I dont have the time to pay attention to the same weight and spine of wooden shafts.
I love to buy a dozen of good carbon shafts, knowing that one is like the other.
And also a used wooden shaft has to be checked for damages from time to time.
Just my 0,02$
-
You'd best check those carbons for damage too. I've seen one blow up into such small pieces that it seemed to have disappeared.
I shot a carbon once. No, twice, out of a compound, just to see what it was like. No thanks. No soul.
Putting together a perfectly matched set of wood arrows is a labor of love, not a pain to be endured. I don't like cedar because of it's fragility- I've never understood how it came to the the "standard" for wood arrows. Any hardwood shaft is at least twice as tough as any softwood, but Port Orford cedar is the worst. I have poplars that I've shot literally for more than a decade. They're tougher than the aluminum I used to shoot, and have plenty of mass without resorting to add-ons to get the weight up. My hunting arrows are always within 25 grains of 600, depending on the spine I'm shooting and the broadhead weight.
Just not looking for the easy way out, I guess...
-
Originally posted by capt eddie:
I am looking for a shaft that I can trust 100%.... I want to be able to reach in the quiver and know that every arrow will be perfect. Can AD carbon give me that??
-
Let's do this one more time and try to get it right!
Originally posted by capt eddie:
I am looking for a shaft that I can trust 100%.... I want to be able to reach in the quiver and know that every arrow will be perfect. Can AD carbon give me that??
The simple answer is YES!!! Nothing is indestructible, so you need to check the shafts after a really hard impact, but really not other than that. The AD Hammerheads with brass inserts, aluminum collars, uni-bushings and g-nocks are unbelievably tough. You can try to damage them and will still have to really work at it before you will ruin one. I have been shooting mine quite a bit and shot them into obstacles that would ruin most arrows. The Hammerheads were not phased. At the right level of abuse any shaft can be ruined; however, the Hammerheads set up as described are the toughest and most damage resistant I have ever seen. And they will always stay straight unless you break them.
Allan
-
amar911 can u show a photo of that shaft thanks in advance
-
Scott,
The arrows are not shown close up, but you can see them in several pictures in this thread: http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=27;t=000261
I will try to take a closer picture of one of the arrows and post it here a little later.
Allan
-
I tried some carbons but could'nt get them to fly right. I experimented with different tip weights, arrow lengths, etc. Got tired of messing around and sold them.
I never have any flight problems with my woodies or aluminums.
To each their own.
-
Here is a picture of the whole arrow:
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/amar911/Hammerheadbuffaloarrow1.jpg)
Here is a picture of the label:
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/amar911/Hammerheadbuffaloarrow4.jpg)
Here is a picture showing the 100 grain brass insert (it also has two brass weights screwed into the back of it totaling 70 grains) and the aluminum collar that is placed over the front end of the shaft before the brass insert and the weights are epoxied into the shaft to hold everything together (this arrow setup was experimental, so the original epoxy job that Paul did was not sufficient to keep the screw-in weights in the back of the insert from backing out on their threads and beginning to rattle, so I pulled the inserts and weights, cleaned them up, and then used a slow set marine epoxy and loaded it up in the threads for the weights and all around the outside of the insert and weights, and that installation has held up very well):
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/amar911/Hammerheadbuffaloarrow3.jpg)
This final picture shows the rear end of the arrow with the uni-bushing and g-nock installed. The uni-bushing is also epoxied in place, then the g-nock can be inserted just like any push-in nock. It is a very strong system that still allows the nocks to be rotated at any time and easily and quickly replaced in the field. I did a Robin Hood within my first 15 shots with these arrows and destroyed a g-nock, but the uni-bushing and shaft were as good as new.
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/amar911/Hammerheadbuffaloarrow2.jpg)
You will notice that I had Paul do 4 inch, 90 degree, 4 fletch over white cresting on the arrow. If I had it to do over again, I would have had Paul use arrow wraps to make refletching easier. The cresting is beautiful, but will take some work when I need to take it off to put on new feathers, which I know I will have to do because these arrows will last until I lose them. With the orange fletching, I hope that will be a very long time.
Does this help Scott?
Allan
-
Look at the 3 Rivers advertisement at the top of this page. It is a 4 picture ad, so wait until it shows the collars, uni-bushings and g-nocks.
Allan
-
With this nock set up can you use the lighted nocks? Do you think I can bring the weight to around 700 grains? I shoot 160 Snuffer with an aluminum adapter. I use aluminum screw in adapters on my POC.
-
With the uni-bushings installed you can only use the g-nocks. You cannot use the lighted nocks. I doubt you can use the lighted nocks even directly in the rear of the shaft because of the tapered design. If you want lighted nocks you will probably have to go with a different shaft.
My arrow in the pictures above weighs 600 grains without any point or broadhead. I was shooting 315 grain Ashby broadheads for a total weight of 915 grains. I also had another dozen arrows made up that were identical except for the color of the fletching and the absence of the 70 grains of additional brass weights in the back of the brass insert. That would make my lighter arrows 530 grains, so with a 160 grain Snuffer and a full length aluminum adapter at 30 grains the complete arrow would weigh about 720 grains -- just slightly more than what you seem to want.
Allan
-
The lights are just something to play with at night. If I can get the same kind of weight you have I will be happy. I just shot some carbon I borrowed from my son. Ted Nugent specials. I have to admit, they flew better then POC. I did have 200 gn FP on them. I do not know the weight or spine. I just know they flew straight. I will try some Hammerhead and try to set them up like yours. Thanks for all the input.
-
Several have mentioned the carbons are ugly, most are. The graphics on the Hammerhead are not the best I've ever seen but I challenge anyone to tell they are carbon without holding one close up. The "wood grain" graphics on them are as good as any arrow I've seen. And vastly more attractive than the normal charcoal color of most carbons.
-
I think someone makes a lit nock that fits the G-nock bushing. They have several sizes now for different nock styles. With brass inserts and collars you should be able to reach 700 grains. I have a total arrow weight of 644 with a 250 grain broadhead and no collar with the uni-bushing and G-nock set-up. 3 fletch no wraps. AD Hammerhead TradLites.
-
I have wondered about carbons. 2 years ago I watched a doe that had most of the point side of the arrow sticking out of her. As she made her way through the brush, everytime the point hit something she'd run, then settle down, until the point hit something again. Once she got the arrow out she walked out of sight. A friend hit a should blade on a buck and most of the shaft was sticking out as the deer ran by me-we never found the arrow. Since carbons don't break off easily, do the wounds fail to heal over?
-
You just described some gruesome bad hits. How bad the wound is, determines if the deer survives or not. Not the type of arrow it was hit with.
-
With wood or aluminum, the shaft would likely have broken off. With the shaft intact, I wonder if it worries the wound to the point it won't heal.
-
I have alot of input for the Hammerheads. What about the Grizzlystiks. Are thier advantages to the full taper?
-
I've been shooting the Grizzly Stick Alaskan for 2 and a half years now and must say I couldn't be happier with them. I know many say they are difficult to tune or troublesome, but I'm able to tune my with 175 to 300 grains up front!
In all this time I've only broke one arrow (my fault, not the shaft) it was a side impact on a large boulder after a deflection. Not saying they are any better than the Hammerheads or the right choice for everyone. Just telling you what I've experienced.
By the way I'm shooting a Fox longbow 55# at my 27 inch draw length with 28 3/4 in. arrow with 300 grains up front (175 Abowyer brown bear 125 steel adapter) with brass insert, fletched with 3 5in wild turkey feathers ground myself from a bird I killed this past spring. Bring on the elk!!
Good luck to you cap'n.
Travis
-
How do you cut the carbon shafts? Who has the Hammerhead in stock?
-
You need a high speed cut of saw. Some people use a dremel tool.
I have both Hammerheads in stock at this time.
-
Do you need a thing called a nock tool to be able to use uni-nocks with the G nocks? I just read something about it on another site.
-
With a full length taper how do you use inserts in the grizzly's?? Different size serts as you get shorter or what??? Also not have used the fletching wrap how do you remove that to re fletch?
-
You don't need a nock tool to use the g-nocks with the uni-bushings even though a nock tool usually comes with the nocks.
You use the same size inserts on the Grizzlys -- just make sure you cut them from the point end to make your shafts the right length. To remove fletch wraps, just boil water and dip the wrap and feathers in the hot water. The wrap and feathers will peel off. When the shaft is dry, put on a new wrap and glue on the feathers.
Allan
-
amar911 you are extremely beneficial to this site i appreciate your help thanks
-
Just got my AD Hammerheads in. I used the 100 brass, collar, uni bushing Gnocks and 125 gn steel adapter with 160 gn FP. Bare shafted out to 20 yards. They land with the point to the right. Or nock left. I believe that is the sign of a week spine.These are full length. I am shooting them out of a 70LB Treestick. Can I cut them down to my draw length? I can change weight if need to.
-
Unbeleivable. I just finished fletching up these Hammeerhead. The finished weight is 800 to 810 with a snuffer BH. I have to say that I did not think I could shot what good. These arrows fly great. Plenty of speed for 25 yard shots. I have been fighting with POC for 30 years. Now I know if I have a bad shot it is because I messed up not the arrow. Thanks to all that replied to my call for help.
-
Eddie,
It is probably because of the tapered design, but Arrow Dynamics does not recommend bareshafting their arrows for tuning. I guess you figured that out for yourself. Your good experience with the Hammerheads is fairly common with people who try AD shafts. I'm really glad the arrows are working well for you. You will love those arrows even more as you continue to shoot and hunt with them. You are correct about not having an excuse for a bad shot. :saywhat:
Allan