Post by: Mr.Magoo on September 14, 2009, 10:39:00 AM
It's legal here as long as the stand isn't permanently attached to the tree and is removed after season.
If you want to lock-up a tree it's not the end of the world, but do you think it's "your" spot too?
As far as I'm concerned, if I get in the area first, I'll put my stand right next to yours and first come first served.
Post by: mscampbell75 on September 14, 2009, 11:10:00 AM
Post by: EricW on September 14, 2009, 12:00:00 PM
Post by: John3 on September 14, 2009, 12:26:00 PM
They would not see many deer that morning. I would not get violent but for sure I would bugger the deer around my stand for that morning.
Post by: Mr.Magoo on September 14, 2009, 12:53:00 PM
It may be your stand, but is it your tree? Your area? Have you claimed it for the season and no one else gets to hunt the spot? The same spot others may have been scouting except they didn't feel the need to chain a stand there?
Post by: J. Cook on September 14, 2009, 01:02:00 PM
Post by: George D. Stout on September 14, 2009, 01:05:00 PM
It's there for everyone's use and there is no..."I was there first so it's my spot." B.S.!!!! If you want that, then you find private land that you can lease or own. There's already enough exclusion as far as hunting areas go.
Frankly, I think stands should be taken out every day...surely we aren't so lazy that we just need to let them there. That's how we work it around our parts. I see a few occasionally on the State Game Lands and I always respect that someone may be hunting that spot; however, they don't own the land or the "spot" so squatter's rights don't apply.
If you respect the land and what it is there for, you will consider a minimum impact upon that land. It's there for everone.
Post by: BEN on September 14, 2009, 02:16:00 PM
I do use a simple cable lock to at least discourage a quick swipe----but I also try and put them off the beaten path so that it is a hassle to carry them all the way out......
ben
Post by: Bill Turner on September 14, 2009, 03:17:00 PM
Post by: Fletcher on September 14, 2009, 03:36:00 PM
Post by: Brian Krebs on September 14, 2009, 03:38:00 PM
If you go to move your stand- and someone is in it; are you interfering with their hunting; or are they interfering with your right to move the stand?
---and thus with your right to hunt?
If they fall from your stand can they sue you ?
If you lay your bow down; does it become public property ?
Post by: JohnV on September 14, 2009, 03:40:00 PM
Post by: Horner on September 14, 2009, 03:44:00 PM
It is not lazyness at all!!!!!
Post by: George D. Stout on September 14, 2009, 03:51:00 PM
Most people would respect the stands being there; I already said that I respect those stands and go to another spot. However, you don't have a right to just claim a spot as yours.
It would be pretty low to use another's stand, but I'm sure it happens. User Beware. I would just take my stand out with me.
Post by: waknstak IL on September 14, 2009, 04:23:00 PM
Post by: Three Arrows on September 14, 2009, 04:26:00 PM
Post by: xtrema312 on September 14, 2009, 04:29:00 PM
Post by: jhg on September 14, 2009, 04:38:00 PM
I leave it alone, but walk under it every time I 'm in the area to check the wallow. I respect his right, don't need to poke a hornets nest, but am not prepared to walk my way around it when am "hunting". If he's ever in it when I come by I will just wave and move along.
I don't need to take on "policing the woods" along with everything else I've got on my plate.
Joshua
Post by: GingivitisKahn on September 14, 2009, 05:52:00 PM
I scout the heck out of the public land I hunt and know it very well. There are a number of really good spots that I'd like to be able to use (assuming I'm the first there that morning, of course) depending on wind and so forth. However, throughout the year, someone will go in there and hang a stand. When I or anyone shows up in the morning - even though the stand owner isn't there, now we have to decide do we want to risk that guy coming in and blowing our hunt? Do we want to risk a confrontation (even assuming I don't - and I wouldn't - sit in his stand)?
Probably not - it just seems incredibly rude to me to leave your crap out there on public land and expect everyone else to respect "your" spot. And Brian - if you leave your bow out on public land for weeks at a time - I wouldn't be all that surprised if someone found it and walked away with it.
How about this - exactly what is required to claim a spot? As mentioned I have a number I like to use. Do I need to festoon the woods with cheap stands to keep other taxpayers out of my private public spots? What about lawn chairs - would those do? How about if I just leave soda cans out there - is that still my private property and good enough to claim a spot or is it just abandoned trash ? That's what I argue those stands that hang out there for weeks at a time must be.
Post by: anchorman on September 14, 2009, 05:55:00 PM
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on September 14, 2009, 05:59:00 PM
Climb into my stand? Question like that are exactly why I never put up stands on public ground.
Post by: No-sage on September 14, 2009, 06:00:00 PM
Post by: GingivitisKahn on September 14, 2009, 06:09:00 PM
At Cabelas, the cheapest stands I see are about $70 each. Assuming each stand claims 1/10th of an acre, then apparently we can own public hunting land for $700 an acre. That's assuming we want the whole acre.
A quick Google search shows me someone selling 30 acres close to where I hunt for 1.4 million. Assuming that's twice what the land is worth (that's 700k for 30 acres - stay with me) then the land there costs around $23k per acre.
Dang - this thread is a gold mine!
Post by: longstick on September 14, 2009, 06:30:00 PM
Post by: michael goldman on September 14, 2009, 06:47:00 PM
Post by: Three Arrows on September 14, 2009, 07:55:00 PM
Post by: Longbowwally on September 14, 2009, 08:07:00 PM
Also, it blows my mind how people will steal tree stands...Stealing is stealing no matter what...
Even on public land I don't hunt right where someone has a stand...I'll give them the same respect I'd like to be given if someone walks up on me....
Post by: Red Beastmaster on September 14, 2009, 08:19:00 PM
Post by: Burnsie on September 14, 2009, 08:35:00 PM
As far as someone else using my stand because its on public land - NOT COOL. The land, the trees, the water are public - everyone has equal rights to it. But my stand??? - I don't think so. If someone gets in there before me and wants to put a stand in the exact same tree - have at it. I wouldn't think much of the person, but I'd respect his right to the area and move on to somewhere else.
I guess the whole idea of climbing up into someone elses stand just because it's there is really foreign to me, don't get it.
Post by: buckeye_hunter on September 14, 2009, 08:41:00 PM
Scenario 1;
You walk to "your stand" that you left and someone is using it = possible disagreement, ruined hunting spot (likely for both of you)for the morning/evening, possible fight between armed people and none of this is good.
Scenario 2:
You walk to "your stand" that you left and someone has taken it = :banghead: $%^#%#$, what was I thinking?
Scenario 3:
You use the stand someone else has left behind and they walk in to use the stand too = possible disagreement, ruined hunting spot (likely for both of you)for the morning/evening, possible fight between armed people and none of this is good.
Scenario 4:
You walk in and see someboy's stand and go hunt another area = BS because my tax dollars paid for this land too! I had to learn this lesson early on and apologize for my prior ignorance.
None of these seem like good options and all are avoided by simply removing your stand when you leave.
No one owns public land. Let every hunter experience the woods the same way you do. We all should get to feel we are free to choose a hunting spot on pulic land without the above worries.
Just my opinion,
-Charlie
Post by: Yellow Dog on September 14, 2009, 08:50:00 PM
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e173/Yellowdog3822/P5270608.jpg)
Post by: Mr.Magoo on September 14, 2009, 09:40:00 PM
I went out tonight and hung my stand right between two stands a pair of fellas had left up. No other way to hunt a little trail crossroad. Neither of them showed up; if they had, hopefully they'd have moved on to another spot.
Of course, I didn't see anything either.
Post by: Arwin on September 14, 2009, 09:52:00 PM
Michigan public land is as cut-throat as it gets. Any stand I plan on leaving out there is a $10 garage sale special because I've had 4 stolen. Climbers, treesaddles, natural ground blinds and pop-up blinds are the way to go.
I have 20(no kidding) areas prepped and ready in case the pressure gets too crazy. More than a decade of public land hunting in my back pocket and I've seen just about every rediculous scenario possible. Funny thing is, I go back for more,LOL! It is a mental game trying to outwit the deer while working around other hunters, hikers and who knows what. :biglaugh:
Post by: Cyclic-Rivers on September 14, 2009, 10:02:00 PM
Just because it's public property doesn't mean you can leave your stuff laying around. If that's the case I'll throw all my crap in an area and claim it. "That's my entertainment center which means this is my spot, you can't watch tv here!" In fact where I grew up the state or county would remove them.
-Charlie
Post by: Arwin on September 14, 2009, 10:12:00 PM
!["[dntthnk]"]("graemlins/dntthnk.gif" "\"\"")
I leave my areas better than I found them minus my stand, neatly locked up in place to deter theives.Besides, how are ya going to sneak in on a big buck in the morning while making a ton of racket trying to hang a stand in the dark? He'll be 10 miles away and out of Dodge. :eek:
Post by: Brian Krebs on September 15, 2009, 03:10:00 AM
Here in Idaho; I have found hunters in my stands; which are my property; that were put there by outfitters - who didn't care right from wrong.
I have left people in the stands; but I let them know the situation.
A couple years ago I had a bear bait out; in Idaho; you have to have a bear baiting tag to set out bait; but not to hunt over a bait.
So I put up an Ameristep blind there; and when I came back the next day a rifle hunter had found the bait and stand while driving around in the woods on his atv. He put an illegal bait on my bait pile- tagged with my tag; and then with fishy fingers moved my blind so that it better served his rifle needs.
After he left; with the intent of returning to use my blind; the bears came in and chewed holes where he touched the blind with his fishy fingers.
Now I bought that blind; I put out and tagged the bait; and his putting an illegal bait on my pile ( filleted out steelhead) I could have ended up with a ticket for it.
So; he used my blind; the bears broke one of the support rods; and moved my blind and put me in the position to get a ticket for the bait.
I had an encounter with this guy that was not pleasant; it was loud and I still have bitter feelings about it. He has not shown back up since.
I used to be an avid duck hunter; and the rule on rivers and public lakes was the first person to the blind had the legal right to use it; and I had and have no problem with that.
But I live surrounded by public land; with low hunter pressure. In fact - if I see another bowhunter- we end up working together not against each other.
A treestand and a pop up blind cost money. To take them is stealing. To use them in a way to destroy them is destruction of private property.
In duck hunting in high pressure areas I have seen a draw system for blinds. You show up in the dark and draw a blind to use for the day.
That worked fine in crowed areas; and you might find that system used in high pressure deer hunting areas.
That or banning treestands and double bull type blinds.
But - again- if your stand is rated at 250 pounds; and some 300 pound man falls out of it... well you know the legal system.
Again - so much of this varies from one state to another and one situation to another.
Nobody owns the public lands; or a specific spot in it. But - if theft is a way of life for hunting; then banning stands is probably in the future.
That or learning to get along with each other.
And in Idaho; outfitters have treestands and spots for bear baits and wallows; and while individuals are on their own in conflicts; guides typically 'own' areas and spots.
As hunter numbers increase; conflicts like these are bound to go up.
Rules are better than violence. But violence does work.
It will be interesting to see how this topic changes over the coming years.... :readit:
Post by: GingivitisKahn on September 15, 2009, 07:05:00 AM
For all the folks pointing out that stealing a guy's stand is wrong or hunting from it is rude - of course you are correct.
Now can you admit that it's just as rude to leave that stand out there for weeks on end and expect others to avoid "your" spot?
Post by: wollelybugger on September 15, 2009, 07:33:00 AM
Post by: James Wrenn on September 15, 2009, 07:52:00 AM
Post by: bowtough on September 15, 2009, 08:23:00 AM
Post by: Don Stokes on September 15, 2009, 08:49:00 AM
I've had stands used by other people or stolen on both public and private property. Makes me angry every time. No, you can't "claim a spot" on public land, but hunters can exercise some common courtesy.
When you find someone else's stand, you don't know the stand owner's situation, and unless it's abandoned and unused, it should be left alone if it's there legally. Unused stands accumulate leaves and such- it's not to hard to tell if they are currently in use. Move over 50 or 100 yards if you just have to hunt the same area, but who wants to compete with another hunter that close by? It's the risk you take when you hunt somewhere that anyone else can hunt, too.
Public land rudeness is the primary factor in the drive to form a club and lease private land.
Post by: Morning Star on September 15, 2009, 08:50:00 AM
They make such nice equipement now, if you prepare your stand sites prior to hunting, it really isn't much trouble to hang a stand. A linemans belt for hands free work and a quality packable light weight stand and sticks....your set.
We have a bunch of guys at one place I hunt who like to claim and defend "their" public area from other hunters. :rolleyes:
Funny thing is, it's a place where you have to pull your stands every time you hunt. Our game officer has a GPS and is now starting to establish a nice collection of treestands. He leaves them a nice note to. :D
Post by: GingivitisKahn on September 15, 2009, 10:29:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Don Stokes:Agreed. Now will you admit that anyone that hangs his stand for weeks at a time on public land is also rude? It monopolizes areas that others also have the same right to hunt.
Anyone who hunts from someone else's stand without permission deserves whatever he gets, except a deer! It's just plain rude.
Post by: waknstak IL on September 15, 2009, 10:59:00 AM
Bowtough I have never heard of the fee thing here in IL. Who or where are they doing this?
Post by: bowtough on September 15, 2009, 12:22:00 PM
Post by: Deadsmple on September 15, 2009, 02:13:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JohnV:Sounds like laziness to me.
It is more likely to avoid the time and noise required to set up and take down a stand each time you go into the woods.
Quote
Originally posted by GingivitisKahn:You'll never get it I tried in vain in last years thread. :banghead:
Now will you admit that anyone that hangs his stand for weeks at a time on public land is also rude? It monopolizes areas that others also have the same right to hunt.
Post by: Fletcher on September 15, 2009, 02:17:00 PM
If you want to call me to task on this, come on out to Site M and hang your stand next to mine and see if I get upset when I show up.
Post by: Horner on September 15, 2009, 02:48:00 PM
Not to attack you, or disrespect you. Have you ever really tried to hang a stand before?
You will stink up the woods and make enough noise to scare anything within a half a mile.
Also you really don't even want to get into how unsafe it is to hang, and take down a stand when it is pitch black outside.
Post by: Horner on September 15, 2009, 03:00:00 PM
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on September 15, 2009, 03:09:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GingivitisKahn:Just a clarification, I don't think there's anything wrong with you hanging a stand in the SAME TREE as someone who leaves theirs out overnight. It's public ground, everyone has the right to use it.
QuoteOriginally posted by Don Stokes:Agreed. Now will you admit that anyone that hangs his stand for weeks at a time on public land is also rude? It monopolizes areas that others also have the same right to hunt. [/b]
Anyone who hunts from someone else's stand without permission deserves whatever he gets, except a deer! It's just plain rude.
Climbing into someone else's stand is something else entirely. That stand is private property, period.
Post by: Don Stokes on September 15, 2009, 03:14:00 PM
But stay out of mine, please. Bring your own stand, put it up next door, and we can video each other shooting deer. :)
Post by: Horner on September 15, 2009, 03:30:00 PM
Post by: GingivitisKahn on September 15, 2009, 03:43:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Fletcher:I wouldn't do that to you. That would be rude of me. I'd be more apt to share some snacks with you or something. :)
No, Kahn, I don't have to admit that. I guess you and I are just gonna disagree on this. Maybe you think that you are claiming the spot, but I and many others do not feel that way about it. Just because I or someone else leaves a stand hanging on public ground DOES NOT mean that we are trying to claim a spot. It just means that we made a legal decision to leave a stand there. When I figure I've made my last sit there for the season, I'll take the stand out with me then. Anyone else is more than welcome and well within their rights to hunt the same spot if they get there before me. Basic courtesy says that they shouldn't sit in my stand and that the spot belongs to the first hunter there.
If you want to call me to task on this, come on out to Site M and hang your stand next to mine and see if I get upset when I show up.
Some folks (like you, for instance and many here, I'd imagine) that leave stands don't see it as claiming a spot. That's great but many of the rest of us see the stand hanging there and feel we need to move along (either to be nice or to avoid a possible confrontation or whatever).
Whether the stand leavers intend to claim a spot or not, my point is - that's exactly what is being done.
Post by: GingivitisKahn on September 15, 2009, 03:44:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Deadsmple:No need to be snippy. I get it - I just disagree with you. On the other hand, you also hunt with trad gear so as far as I know - I agree with you on twice as many things as I disagree on.
QuoteOriginally posted by GingivitisKahn:You'll never get it I tried in vain in last years thread. :banghead: [/b]
Now will you admit that anyone that hangs his stand for weeks at a time on public land is also rude? It monopolizes areas that others also have the same right to hunt.
Post by: Brian Krebs on September 15, 2009, 05:58:00 PM
Post by: Jason R. Wesbrock on September 15, 2009, 06:28:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Brian Krebs:Why wouldn't it?
I have to wonder if the bow season was for traditional bows only; if this would even be an issue.....
Post by: Mr.Magoo on September 15, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Post by: Three Arrows on September 15, 2009, 07:45:00 PM
Post by: GingivitisKahn on September 15, 2009, 08:13:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Three Arrows:That's just the thing. I've also scouted the spot and maybe so have you. Just because someone hangs his stand there doesn't mean he's gotten there first (unless, of course, he's actually in the stand). It just means he's left his stuff.
Find another tree. It's been this way for years since people found another way to hunt up in a tree other than using branches to stand on. When I see a stand in a tree chained up or otherwise, I just get pissed and move on. I only get pissed because I have to go further, not because the person claimed the spot. It is first come first served as far as I am concerned. Whoever put the stand up did their scouting and work. Why would I want to bust up their hunting? When they are done they will take it down and move. I would rather see someone enjoy a spot for a few hunts than to be a prick and make them hunt once and move. I would rather see them have a nicer hunt because they did not have to put the stand up everyday and risk falling to do so. Sometimes we leave stands chained up to use tomorrow but cannot get to the woods for some reason. Sometimes we are just plain lazy. Its just as lazy to stand around and bitch about it rather than move on down the trail. I do draw the line on someone setting up in a tree next to me while I am occupying the stand. I will also draw the line on someone occupying MY treestand. I will state again: It is not rude to leave a stand in the woods to hunt another day. It has been this way from the time we put stands up by nailing lumber to trees.
Where I hunt (central Ohio) I'll estimate that for every stand I've seen with a hunter in it, I've seen 20 empty ones. Just leaving the thing there for weeks at a time because that guy wants to use it first day of gun season has the effect of denying that spot to many of the rest of us that would also like to use that spot when we are in the woods 2-3 days a week before that.
This past year, for example, my son and I had found a great corner spot where deer funneled from food to bedding. There were lots of acorns as well and a great blowdown that made a natural blind to hide in. Each of us had used the spot in the first couple of weeks of the season and then - a month before gun season someone hangs a ladder stand.
I never did see anyone there (even during gun season) but for the rest of the season, I had to move along - didn't want to be a jerk, didn't want to mess up "another's spot" (though we had hunted it first) and didn't want the hassle. I'm just saying that (leaving that stand there) is a crappy way to behave. It's rude.
Post by: Davo on September 15, 2009, 08:49:00 PM
Post by: Arwin on September 16, 2009, 12:43:00 AM
First come first serve: I did some scouting and found the right spot before anyone else. Does my body actually have to be there for it to count or does my personal property vouch for me?
I would love to know the person who can take mature deer every season when they have to hang a stand in the dark every time they hunt.....
Leaving my stand up isn't rude, I found a good spot, I should get to hunt it till I'm done. I got there first.
Whats rude is looking up at someone's stand and thinking, "Hmm this must be a good spot, I think I'll hunt it." Wheres the skill in that??!!!
If the "other guy" had gotten off his butt and done his homework, he'd have a good spot too. And to cry about the fact that I have a good spot and don't deserve to keep my stand there is immature and comes down to envy.
Get out there and take pride in finding your own honey hole rather than scavenge on someone else hard work.
Post by: m midd on September 16, 2009, 02:46:00 AM
Post by: Three Arrows on September 16, 2009, 04:45:00 AM
Post by: wapitimike1 on September 16, 2009, 05:21:00 AM
Post by: TSHOOTER on September 16, 2009, 07:37:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Brian Krebs:I don't change my ethics dependant upon which weapon I am using at the time. I have and do hunt with traditional bows, compounds, black powder, modern rifle etc. I haven't taken any one elses property and don't plan on it. And yes I have had my property stolen on my own land. That still doesn't justify stealing on my part and to suggest that someone hunting with something other than a traditional bow is more likely to steal my stand is offensive to me and others.
I have to wonder if the bow season was for traditional bows only; if this would even be an issue.....
Post by: waknstak IL on September 16, 2009, 08:08:00 AM
Post by: buckeye_hunter on September 16, 2009, 08:18:00 AM
If the owner of the stand walks in to hunt that stand WHILE you are already there....Here are the benefits...
1. You sit behind his stand while he calls/rattles and the deer come in behind and downwind of him, BINGO, THE DEER IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU! :readit:
Seriously though.....Kahn, you and I are both VERY polite people and don't want to mess things up for others. That is why we see it as claiming a spot to leave a stand. Other people, not that it isn't ok... due to it being public land and all, just don't worry about it. Someone already said, we can't push our ethics on someone else.
Everyone has their own opinion and all we can really do in the end is listen and agree to disagree.
When I scout/hunt I love to see the woods as they would be naturally. I don't want to see stands hanging everywhere, but they still have the right to leave them I guess. It does take something from the experience for me though. Many stands left in the trees makes it look like you are hunting in some sort of shooting gallery and that does stink.
All I can do is go further away from the roads to make sure I don't see the stands. I could ask the owner to pack the stand out, but what is the sense in creating an arguement? That is why I like AEP land. I can't remember EVER seeing a stand.
This is not meant to be offensive to those that leave stands, we just have different opinions.
-Charlie
Post by: jcar315 on September 16, 2009, 09:08:00 AM
The notion of hunting around someone else, someone elses stand, or sitting in some other guys stand is so foreign to me I can't even imagine it.
I took a wildlife management class in college as an elective and took a few things away:
1. Different people have a different view of a "quality outdoor experience." My view of a QOE in no way includes seeing someone else, their stand, or even running into anyone else. Just the thought of some other dude stumbling in to his stand in the dark which happens to be close to me would spoil the whole hunt for me.
2. Most "hunters" hunt within 1/4 mile of the road or some other access point.
Like others have said: I would still never leave a stand up on public ground (regardless of the regulations), I would never hunt around some stand that was there, and would never dream of actually sitting in some other guys stand.
If I was going to hunt the public ground around my house I think I might pick a nice damp day and work on my "skulking" technique. Access to hunting ground is an issue for us all. Don't know if there is any one answer. Not everyone subscribes to the same set of ethics or standards regardless of the situation.
Very thankful that I do have some ground to hunt close by and I can avoid what sounds like what could be a very unpleasant situation on public ground.
Post by: jhg on September 16, 2009, 10:03:00 AM
True Story: Growing up in northern Maine I never heard a nice thing about "out-of-staters" regarding how they hunted. Every story about them, from what they wore to how they hunted, had a negative bent to it. So imagine my surprise when hunting one day to bump into one of these guys and he turns out to be 1) more polite and deferential than ANY local hunter I had ever run into and 2) considerate and respectful.
That ONE guy changed my whole perspective by his attitude. And let me add that in the beginning I was none too friendly.
My point is it goes a long way no matter what situation you are presented with in the public woods to try your best to handle it with dignity and class.
It may well change the way another hunter approaches the next guy, for the better.
Yes, maybe you won't get in that last nasty word. But in the end you will have done something of far more value.
A better hunting experience in shared woods starts with you. It starts with me. And that isn't new age give-me-a-hug double speak.
Joshua
Post by: Deadsmple on September 16, 2009, 10:54:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GingivitisKahn:hehehe I was in total agreement with you. Not getting snippy at all, I was just saying that I tried in last years thread to get them to admit that hanging a stand for weeks at a time on public land is rude. Like you, I couldn't get anyone to budge. :)
QuoteOriginally posted by Deadsmple:No need to be snippy. I get it - I just disagree with you. On the other hand, you also hunt with trad gear so as far as I know - I agree with you on twice as many things as I disagree on. [/QB]
You'll never get it I tried in vain in last years thread. :banghead: [/b]
Post by: Brian Krebs on September 16, 2009, 01:41:00 PM
Then too; its often a long way to the place you hunt; and to take down a stand and steps and put them up again would make most hunts a waste of time.
So; I put up stands; and I leave them there while I am bear hunting; although I might move around the bait to fool the bears.
For elk and deer; to sneak into an area and put up a stand in the dark- well that would soak you in sweat so bad it would make a hunt with a stand unfeasible.
It might be in the 60's where you hunt; but here it has been in the 80s - try carrying a stand back an hour on your back; putting it up and sitting there- its just not feasible. It may work in some remote cases.... but in most cases it is just not feasible.
How many of you go on guided bear hunts and put up a new stand every evening?
Some of this argument is regional. What seems logical and may be in one area is totally not logical in another.
My point about bow season being for bows; as in traditional bows - well that would decrease the number of hunters in the field. That would decrease conflict.
Taking a persons property could cost you your life.
Go ahead and steal stands if you want; but it is stealing; and someday someone will make it look like an accident.
This is so unlike the tradgang to be talking about stealing and destroying other peoples property.
Post by: Mint on September 16, 2009, 04:29:00 PM
Post by: Brad_Gentry on September 16, 2009, 04:49:00 PM
Come on folks... the beauty of public hunting ground, and thank God we have it, is that any of us, regardless of your means or lack thereof, can go out and have a place to hunt... AND... we all have the same right to it.
I, the same as some others, feel that hanging a stand and leaving it there [on public ground] is tantamount to "claiming" a spot, whether the hanger means it that way or not. Some that have said they don't think they are claiming a spot when they leave a stand have also said they don't think it should stop somebody from hunting the same spot (not in their stand) if they're not there. Well, the fact is it does. Some of us are just too polite. We find a stand up in a place where we were planning to hunt and we either don't want to seem rude in case someone shows up, or we don't want to have our sit ruined when the owner comes walking in right in the middle of prime time. Either way, it forces us to go somewhere else. Another thing to think about for those that think leaving a stand doesn't claim a spot, is the idea that maybe that tree [where your stand is] is the best, or only, stand site to take advantage of that particular spot. Again, having the effect of denying someone access to a spot that they have as much right to hunt as you do.
On public ground, "first-come first-served" should only count for when you are actually there. None of us can claim we "found a spot" first, [on public ground] anyway. The only thing you can claim is you hung a stand first. And besides that, going back to the beauty of public ground, whether you like it or not, the guy that just likes getting out every once in awhile, and bumbles into some spot has as much right to hunt it as the guy who found it by meticulously scouting six months out of the year.
Post by: GingivitisKahn on September 16, 2009, 05:15:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Arwin:Who says you got there first? How do you know some other tradgang member hasn't been scouting that area all season? What makes that piece of public land yours - your stand?! Please.
Three Arrows I'm with ya!
First come first serve: I did some scouting and found the right spot before anyone else. Does my body actually have to be there for it to count or does my personal property vouch for me?
I would love to know the person who can take mature deer every season when they have to hang a stand in the dark every time they hunt.....
Leaving my stand up isn't rude, I found a good spot, I should get to hunt it till I'm done. I got there first.
Whats rude is looking up at someone's stand and thinking, "Hmm this must be a good spot, I think I'll hunt it." Wheres the skill in that??!!!
If the "other guy" had gotten off his butt and done his homework, he'd have a good spot too. And to cry about the fact that I have a good spot and don't deserve to keep my stand there is immature and comes down to envy.
Get out there and take pride in finding your own honey hole rather than scavenge on someone else hard work.
So just leaving your junk there means it is yours - come on.
For one thing - we don't all choose to hunt from treestands - what personal property should we leave behind to claim this spot when we scout it? For another thing - many here on this thread that do choose to yse treestands bring them in and out when they use them. In neither case is that does that make us lazy or does it indicate that we have scavenged your 'honey hole'.
Post by: Mr.Magoo on September 16, 2009, 05:26:00 PM
---------------------------------
"Leaving my stand up isn't rude, I found a good spot, I should get to hunt it till I'm done. I got there first.
... And to cry about the fact that I have a good spot and don't deserve to keep my stand there is immature and comes down to envy.
Get out there and take pride in finding your own honey hole rather than scavenge on someone else hard work."
----------------------------------
Of course, if you disagree with him, you're an envious, immature, cry-baby. Wow.
Post by: GingivitisKahn on September 16, 2009, 05:26:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Deadsmple:Lol whoopsie - my mistake. Sorry about that!
QuoteOriginally posted by GingivitisKahn:hehehe I was in total agreement with you. Not getting snippy at all, I was just saying that I tried in last years thread to get them to admit that hanging a stand for weeks at a time on public land is rude. Like you, I couldn't get anyone to budge. :) [/QB]
QuoteOriginally posted by Deadsmple:No need to be snippy. I get it - I just disagree with you. On the other hand, you also hunt with trad gear so as far as I know - I agree with you on twice as many things as I disagree on. [/b]
You'll never get it I tried in vain in last years thread. :banghead: [/b]
I'll have to admit I enjoy threads like this one. If this is really the biggest, most polarizing issue that traditional bowhunters have - I'd say we're a remarkably cohesive group of folks.
Sorry I misunderstood you!
As an aside - I've seen a number of posts in this thread by the pro-stand-leaver side of the discussion that talk about the evils of stealing, damaging or occupying another person's stand. For the record, I don't think I've seen a single post in this thread (from either side) that advocates stealing, damaging or occupying another person's stand.
I think we can all agree that is wrong - the discussion is about whether it's ok or not to leave a stand hanging when you aren't in it.
Post by: buckeye_hunter on September 16, 2009, 06:57:00 PM
I have prepped more that one tree only to find someone there on opening morning. The guy even went so far as to tell me he looked for prepped areas so he didn't have to do the work. AND HE WAS TALKING ABOUT A SPOT I PREPPED FOR THE OPENER! I complained on here about it and quickly learned my lesson.
Even if the guy was too lazy to do his own work, the tree was still public property. I found another place a half mile away with my climber on my back!
I then continued to pack my stand in that full mile every time I hunted in there. I could have decided that it was easier to leave it, but I wanted to leave a pristine woods for the next guy to hunt. And yes I did sweat my A$%^ off getting into that stand. I still saw deer.
Let this one die guys.
Everyone has a different idea of how things should be. I ground hunt now anyway, just don't like heights or the hassle of a stand. Now I'm a free roamer.
I still hate to see the stands hanging in the woods on my way past them to get to unhunted spots. It just takes away from the experience a little.
To each his own for better or worse. Honestly, worse in my opinion(just my opinion).
Jim,
A guy who doesn't see anything wrong with what he is doing inside of the legal hunting rules isn't going to admit you are right OR he is wrong. Not going to happen my friend.
Let it go, as much as I agree with you.
Thanks for letting me ramble on,
-Charlie
Post by: Three Arrows on September 16, 2009, 08:52:00 PM
Post by: GingivitisKahn on September 16, 2009, 09:40:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by buckeye_hunter:Rambler! :-D
Thanks for letting me ramble on,
-Charlie
You're right - no one here is likely to change anyone's opinion but as long as the debate doesn't devolve into personal attacks and stuff it still seems healthy. Heh - as I mentioned above, if this is the biggest difference of opinions amongst the good folks at Tradgang, we're in pretty good shape.
More importantly - Time until Saturday, September 26, 2009 at 6:26:00 AM (Columbus time)
9 days, 8 hours, 46 minutes and 7 seconds
Season opener - yowza!
Post by: Arwin on September 16, 2009, 10:18:00 PM
Have either of you ever hunted public land in Michigan? Judging by that stats from your states we have way more pressure than you do. 300,000+ bowhunters is pretty substantial. You ever have more people walk past your stand than deer? You get to a point when you long just to be alone for a few hunts without it geting disrupted by another human.
I never claimed to own the land, simply that it takes a tremendous amount of work to harvest deer in my neck of the woods and I think a courtious hunter would find another spot. Moral ethics vary person to person and because it is public land, I can only get frustrated if I feel infringed upon. With the amount of public land we are blessed to have, there is no reason for hunting someones elses stand.
My opinion is that there is greater satisfaction in finding my own spot rather than hunting under someones elses treestand, or in it for that matter.
Yes it does sound like whining to me if other hunters complain that it's not fair my stand is there, but I'm not going to hate you for disagreeing with me.
To me, saying another hunter should take down their stand so others can use that spot is like honking and screraming at the person in front of you for driving too slow. :biglaugh:
Post by: GingivitisKahn on September 16, 2009, 10:38:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Arwin:
Ok I admit I felt a little attacked by Mr. Kahn and Magoo, but I'm a big boy and can take some debate. :saywhat:
Have either of you ever hunted public land in Michigan? Judging by that stats from your states we have way more pressure than you do. 300,000+ bowhunters is pretty substantial. You ever have more people walk past your stand than deer? You get to a point when you long just to be alone for a few hunts without it geting disrupted by another human.
I never claimed to own the land, simply that it takes a tremendous amount of work to harvest deer in my neck of the woods and I think a courtious hunter would find another spot. Moral ethics vary person to person and because it is public land, I can only get frustrated if I feel infringed upon. With the amount of public land we are blessed to have, there is no reason for hunting someones elses stand.
My opinion is that there is greater satisfaction in finding my own spot rather than hunting under someones elses treestand, or in it for that matter.
Yes it does sound like whining to me if other hunters complain that it's not fair my stand is there, but I'm not going to hate you for disagreeing with me.
To me, saying another hunter should take down their stand so others can use that spot is like honking and screraming at the person in front of you for driving too slow. :bigsmyl:
Post by: Mo. Huntin on September 16, 2009, 10:46:00 PM
Post by: m midd on September 17, 2009, 01:11:00 AM
Post by: Three Arrows on September 17, 2009, 04:28:00 AM
Post by: GingivitisKahn on September 17, 2009, 06:49:00 AM
Three Arrows - if you haven't already considered it, you might bring that stand with you to the Ohio Deer Hunt thing that Buckeye Hunter organizes every year (and to the Great Ohio Squirrel Hunt - why not). It's tons of fun and the friendly debate is much easier to conduct around a nice campfire.
:campfire:
Post by: Mr.Magoo on September 17, 2009, 10:46:00 AM
Always interesting to hear everyone's opinion.
Post by: Horner on September 17, 2009, 11:12:00 AM
You should have just titled it.
Hunters who leave out there stands are lazy.
It all comes back to personal ethics (period)!!!!!!!!!!
We are all unique, that is what makes us disagree about issues. We all won't ever see eye to eye, and that's OK. On subjects such as this, you have to just let it go.
Post by: buckeye_hunter on September 17, 2009, 05:05:00 PM
Yes, I did have the same opinion when I used my climber. I used it for 3 years and packed it in and out every time, except on my own farm. Even then, I only left it once from the morning until an evening hunt and brought it back in to the barn that night.
Secondly, If you are TRULY still hunting you will only cover 400-500 yards in an entire morning. I have never run into a stand hunter while trying this. I also avoid areas where other people have gone into the woods before me. If I see a truck or car on the side of the road I intended to hunt, I just go somewhere else.
Thirdly, why would anyone have an issue with me creatiing a natural brush blind with debris/wood/sticks/saplings from the woods with materials that are NATURALLY occurring? If you were to look at it, it looks muck like a blowdown. No ropes, steel or anything artificial, just a natural blind.
I can't think of anyone that would get ticked at that. Honestly...would you?
We built some natural blinds (no ropes or anything) out on AEP and I highly doubt they will even be found or recognized by anyone until gun season.
I wouldn't think tree stand hunters would be offended by a brush pile.
A bit confused,
Charlie
Post by: Orion on September 17, 2009, 06:23:00 PM
Post by: buckeye_hunter on September 17, 2009, 08:21:00 PM
I always say to each his own when hunting as long as it is within hunting regulations. I simply wish stands weren't left there because FOR ME it feels like the spot has been staked out.
Out of courtesy on my part, even if I have hunted there for years, I will leave that spot alone if someone else has put up a stand. I have given up hunting areas for this reason several times. So, to some degree, whomever left the stand has claimed that spot for himself. At least to my exclusion. I will not now or ever, however, ask them to remove their stand for my benefit. It is their right to leave it.
Each should do as they will within the regulations. As long as we all promote hunting and carry on the tradition in a good light, I think we are ok. :thumbsup:
-Charlie
Post by: Three Arrows on September 17, 2009, 11:19:00 PM
Post by: GingivitisKahn on September 18, 2009, 06:55:00 AM
The one mitigating factor (I think) is that a really well made ground blind is a thing that an average hunter (maybe not a Tradganger) would be apt to miss. A treestand is an obvious thing that all of us recognize when we see it.
For instance, on the very rare occasions I've done anything groundblindish, It's been to move a branch from one spot to another or to snip a branch that's poking me in the back or something. If you can go to any of my hides and point to my blind, I'd be very impressed - I'm nearly certain I can't. :-)
To the extent that there is a recognizable stand on public land - in the air or on the ground - then I'd have to say I agree. That's staking out a spot.
Post by: buckeye_hunter on September 18, 2009, 07:45:00 AM
So....hmmmm.
Now I have to go in the woods with just a loincloth of deer skin, make no blinds at all, hunt with only a self bow, use stone points and then I can say I'm a zero impact hunter. ARGGGGGG..... :banghead:
Just when I thought I had it all figured out! :biglaugh:
Good hunting,
-Charlie
Post by: Don Stokes on September 18, 2009, 08:20:00 AM
That's why I built and installed a dozen ladder stands on my home property, and that's why I leave a stand in the woods when I hunt public land. I sometimes have to have help to get it there. I move my ladder stands with bicycle wheels on a threaded rod axle.
Don't assume that a stand left in the woods was left by a lazy, rude, or uncaring hunter. All you see is the stand, not the background that goes with it. Should I stay home, or be confined to ground hunting, because I can't carry a stand in and out? It's a big ol' world out there, and not everybody's the same.
Post by: jcar315 on September 18, 2009, 08:24:00 AM
Regardless of the situation or circumstances if I ran into either of these I would keep on moving and try to get farther away.
Post by: GingivitisKahn on September 18, 2009, 05:17:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by buckeye_hunter:
Three arrows. I see your point about the groundblind.
So....hmmmm.
Now I have to go in the woods with just a loincloth of deer skin, make no blinds at all, hunt with only a self bow, use stone points and then I can say I'm a zero impact hunter. ARGGGGGG..... :bigsmyl:
Post by: hvyhitter on September 18, 2009, 07:13:00 PM
Post by: Three Arrows on September 18, 2009, 07:43:00 PM
Post by: Widowbender on September 18, 2009, 08:30:00 PM
Post by: buckeye_hunter on September 19, 2009, 01:37:00 PM
All I have to do is leave an old stinky loincloth on my climber. Then it is both natural AND no one will steal it!
:bigsmyl:
-Charlie
Post by: Bent Rig on September 19, 2009, 02:18:00 PM
Post by: Bent Rig on September 19, 2009, 04:49:00 PM
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on September 19, 2009, 05:22:00 PM
If I had a treestand hanging on public land and found somebody in it, I would tell them it's mine. If they offered to get down, I would probably decline, as the place was buggered up anyway. Whether they were polite or not, I would wait them out a short distance away, and when they started to climb down I would come back and remove my property. I don't have much desire to hunt in a spot so easily found anyway.
Hunting for me is a peaceful moment in a hectic life. I don't bring bad-ass type aggression into the woods. Also, I carry concealed at all times, and part of that responsibility is to avoid conflict.
As for folks who will steal a stand, whether on public or private property, they are a thief. It's a shame we can't just shoot them. Wouldn't it be great if a concealed carry permit came with coupons? :bigsmyl:
Post by: Mr.Magoo on September 19, 2009, 06:55:00 PM
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n217/dave27615/gum.jpg)
Post by: Widowbender on September 19, 2009, 11:44:00 PM
Good Luck out there, Dave...
Post by: Ragnarok Forge on September 20, 2009, 03:37:00 PM
I rarely find people hunting my spots. I go out of the way to hunt where others don't and amazingly the deer happen to be in those same spots. If someone else is smart enough to hunt where the deer are just have three or four other spots selected and hunt there instead.
I have a late season elk hunting spot that literally is 150 yards from where everyone else in the area hunts. People never seem to make the extra effort to bust the brush and find this spot. I see elk in this spot all the time. If someone else finds it good on them. I have three more just like it. In ten years I have not seen another person or sign of them in these micro hunting spots.
Post by: buckeye_hunter on September 20, 2009, 06:37:00 PM