Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: vermonster13 on September 17, 2009, 05:58:00 PM
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I got a new 62" 50@28 Black Swan ILF Hybrid today. Carbon back, ceramic belly, carbon foam cores with phenolic wedges. Fastest bow I've ever shot. It flat out smokes an arrow.
Here is some eye candy and a pic to show you how the attachment is different for the Black Swan riser. Limbs can be ordered for other ILF risers and for DAS risers. Best thing with the Swan riser is with the swap of a bolt and bezel you can mount the standard limbs on the same riser.
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f311/vermonster13/SaleBows011.jpg)
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f311/vermonster13/SaleBows012.jpg)
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f311/vermonster13/SaleBows014.jpg)
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Whats the hole above the bolt? is that the pivot point?
that looks pretty slick alright. awesome.
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Yes, it is a much more secure set-up than the dove tails. It is a pin that is used for the regular limb set-up and used for the ILF pivot.
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DO WANT. :knothead: :knothead: :knothead:
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It still has all of the ILF adjustment?
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What is the riser going for
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David, is the low wrist on the new riser any smaller than the old low wrist? It looks different but hard to tell from the picture and website photos. Thanks Flint
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It is adjustable for 4#s.
The grip is a true low and there is now a true medium and a high.
I don't know if he is selling the risers alone, you'd need to call him.
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real sweet bow there dave :clapper: :clapper:
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Wow beautiful bow. What does it sell for. Have you chronoed it yet?
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$950
210 @ AMO hybrid
208 @ AMO recurve
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Love those ILF bows. :thumbsup:
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Don't think I understand since you say it is more secure than a regular dove tail.
Can I mount target ILF limbs on this riser without replacing a bushing and will the Swan limbs fit my Spigarelli without changing anything?
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Is 210the speed for the foam core or wood core?
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Is the riser an ILF dovetail riser? or is it using another means of attachment that uses ILF specs on the fixture measurement?
rusty
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No dovetail. The bow is set-up to the original patent design for ILF. To use ILF limbs from another maker you just replace the dovetails with DAS bushings. If a buyer wants, the riser can even be drilled to accept David's complete limb attachment system.
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So you know, the riser is 16" long but makes a 56" bow with standard medium ILF limbs and weight is 7# heavier at max than they would be on a DAS at max.
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I would much rather have a standard dovetail.I have no interest in changing bushings.That is the only thing I don't like about my DAS.It becomes a pain if you have several sets of limbs that you also use on target risers with a dovetail.
I would love to own one with the standard dovetail so I could swap limbs between my risers.
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Attachment looks similar to the Hoyt Dorado/GameMaster. Interesting that it also has weight/tiller adjustment. Love to hear a little more about it v13.
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Yes calling the bow an ILF bow is confusing. if I order it I would have expected it to be the standard ILF dovetail fixture. when I got it I would have been very unhappy.
Looks like a great bow. really hot speeds.
rusty
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The limbs can go on any other ILF riser with the addition of the dovetail or on a DAS riser with the bushing added.
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The one feature I really like is you can swap the limb bolts out and mount the standard Swan limbs to the riser.
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That rig is so sweet! This is my dream bow! Maybe one day...
:archer:
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I would like to see it with a set of ilf limbs on it.Looks like they just used a regular pin as a Gamemaster riser.Can't see how it is adjustable?With the length and if it makes a 56" bow with medium limbs it is pushing safty limits on normal ilf limbs it a lot.Gaining 7lbs over a DAS riser is over stressing ilf limbs to the point you are asking for trouble.jmo
Looks nice but certainly not a riser I would consider an ilf riser at all. Just because you can bolt some limbs on a riser does not make it an ilf riser.jmho
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I'll set-up some W&W limbs for it later and take some pics. After shooting Arvid's new limbs on it, I really would shoot anyone else's for myself on it anyways, but the option is there for some one if they wanted to. His limbs can be set-up for other risers though and if you have a different riser these would make great limbs for it.
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Originally posted by James Wrenn:
I would like to see it with a set of ilf limbs on it.Looks like they just used a regular pin as a Gamemaster riser.Can't see how it is adjustable?With the length and if it makes a 56" bow with medium limbs it is pushing safty limits on normal ilf limbs it a lot.Gaining 7lbs over a DAS riser is over stressing ilf limbs to the point you are asking for trouble.jmo
Looks nice but certainly not a riser I would consider an ilf riser at all. Just because you can bolt some limbs on a riser does not make it an ilf riser.jmho
Not sure about the safety limits but I agree on the ILF thing. The dovetail is what MAKES it International Limb Fitting. If you remove the dovetail, isn't it just a three piece takedown?
Can you explain how you adjust the tiller or weight on the bow you have pictured? Also, what's the brace height on it.
Nice looking bow even if it isn't ILF.
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Maby Arvid will offer a standard ILF dove tail riser also,hint,hint. :D
I do like the idea of mounting a set of Arvid's carbon ceramic longbow limbs on my DAS.
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You turn the limb bolts out just like a regular ILF. I don't foresee Arvid making a regular ILF riser, there are more than enough of those available.
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Originally posted by vermonster13:
You turn the limb bolts out just like a regular ILF.
Wow, are you sure that would be safe? How would that be any different that backing the limb bolt out on any three piece takedown like the Gamemaster or Dorado or any takedown that uses a limb bolt and a pin. Not sure I'd like to try that.
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I know it's safe, I wouldn't say so otherwise. I would think you and some others here would know such about me by now.
The limb doesn't pivot on the pin like it does on the ILF dovetail, the pin is just used for centering the limb. The end of the riser is where the limb pivots, the riser ends are longer on these and support the limb across the end completely as opposed to one small point. Makes for a lot less extra noise also.
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Wow, are you sure that would be safe? How would that be any different that backing the limb bolt out on any three piece takedown like the Gamemaster or Dorado or any takedown that uses a limb bolt and a pin. Not sure I'd like to try that.
It would be just like backing off the bolt on a Gamemaster. :scared: You better stick with BS limbs on this one or we will be reading about some mishaps in the future.jmho
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I had a nice long talk with Arvid. He is going to sell ILF limbs but not the risers as ILF. So you can get Hybrid, Curve or Longbow limbs from him for whatever brand riser you currently own. Contact him for more information.
The riser with these limbs is going to be the Black Swan ATL (Adjustable Tiller Limb) the riser is only for use with Black Swan limbs.
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TTT with update.
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David,
So I could use a set of the Black Swan limbs with my Morrison Mini-14 riser, and Arvid could set them up with the compatible hardware? What is the shortest length of limb that would work well with my 29 1/2" draw length, and what poundage difference would there be between what Arvid would mark them and what they would be on the Mini-14 riser (assuming I wanted about a 50 to 55 pound draw weight)? Those limbs sound really interesting. How much of just the limbs?
Allan
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how much for the limbs
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I have not shot this new bow or the new foam limbs, I am impressed with the bow I bought from the discount adds in the sponsers classifieds and can say that this new bow will be on my short list when I am ready for another.
There are some that will not like the style of riser or it's conecting system. If Arvid is making the limbs with the compatible hardware for the riser you want, I bet you will be impressed with the performance of his limbs.
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You will need to speak to Arvid for final details to get the limbs set-up for want you want. Price is $650 delivered for a set of the ILF limbs.
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Looks good David. Thanks for the info. :thumbsup:
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Originally posted by vermonster13:
I know it's safe, I wouldn't say so otherwise. I would think you and some others here would know such about me by now.
The limb doesn't pivot on the pin like it does on the ILF dovetail, the pin is just used for centering the limb. The end of the riser is where the limb pivots, the riser ends are longer on these and support the limb across the end completely as opposed to one small point. Makes for a lot less extra noise also.
Sorry, but if you back out that limb bolt, the limb WILL pivot on the pin. If the pivot point is further up the limb as you describe, that would be even worse. If the pivot point IS beyond the pin, when the limb bolt is backed out, the limb will be lifted between the bolt and the pivot point, therefore lifting the limb slightly off the pin.
Dangerous to say the least.
The ILF dovetail is designed to hold the limb in place when the limbs return to brace upon release, not just center it. Without the dovetail, the limb bolt needs to be tight to keep the limb from jumping off the pin. The DAS "pin" is threaded, therefore eliminating this possibility. Thats why it was designed that way.
Very nice design, just not "adjustable" in that configuration.
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Bob Morrison tells me that he sometimes backs off the bolts on his non-ILF bows to accomplish the same thing as the ILF bows do and there is no problem, so that would tend to support what David is saying. I cannot imagine Arvid designing an unsafe bow!
Allan
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V13 - it is not a matter of trust or faith in someone. it is a matter of tring to understand how to order and get what you think you are ordering. DAS attachment system is a very good system. It was not an ILF system but was retrofit to an ILF limb. ILF limbs were by standard weighed on a 25" riser (at one time and are still done so internationally). If on a riser that BS limbs gain 7# and ILF standard gain 14#, it is hard to understand what weight limbs you will be getting if you order pair of 45# ILF BS limbs for your ILF (by international standards)riser.
Confusing the issue even more trad tech is now offer ILF limbs that are not measured to International standards but on a shorter riser. Then when someone post a new ILF bow it will get my attention since I have a real fondness for shooting such. in looking into the bow I now find out that it is not a new ILF bow at all but the limbs can be retofited to an ILF fixture but draw weight may or may not be what I think I am getting.
ILF is an international standard all be it somewhat loose standard. It is unfortunate that a limbs with the ILF fixture on it may are maynot be what a prospective buyer except in that it may not be weighed on a 25" riser with the usual limb pad angle these days.
rusty
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BTW the DAS system was not a pinned system but was a bolt that screwed into the limb. the system let the limb change angle and the fixture bolt would adjust to that angle in a small slot in the riser. thus it would not put stress on the pin and pin collar in the limb as the limb changed angles.
rusty
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The limbs are going to be marked and measured for a standard 23"/25" ILF riser when ordered for ILF risers.
Lenny Arvid has been making bows for 40 years and wrote the original patent for the ILF system he knows what he is doing. The tiller is adjustable which is the main focus of the design, backed out to maximum will lessen draw weight by 4#s.
Rusty I am working to make sure there will be no misunderstandings. The web page is going to be updated to reflect the new name and to not use any limbs but the Swans on his riser.
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Originally posted by vermonster13:
Lenny Arvid has been making bows for 40 years and wrote the original patent for the ILF system he knows what he is doing. The tiller is adjustable which is the main focus of the design, backed out to maximum will lessen draw weight by 4#s.
Very well, I'm just saying I wouldn't be comfortable doing it.
Would you mind showing a close up side view with the limb backed out to it's "maximum?" I would be interested in seeing if the different angle of the limb, caused by backing the limb bolt out, pinches the pin in the bushing or lifts it up.
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I have no dog in this fight other than I think it will be my next bow purchase. However I think thaqt it is good that he will not be calling it ILF since the attachments are different.
I also think that it is good that you can order limbs with the ILF ir DAS attachments to fit those bows. I dont think it will be as hard to figure out what weight limbs to order if you take a few moments on the phone with him him and explain what you have and what you need. I have called him a couple of times and always had an informative visit with all my questions answered. I bet yours will be too. And if you buy used I bet a call to him with the info on the limbs will get all the calculations decifered.
I see the need to keep all of your limbs the same and it looks like he will be able to cater to that and provide another limb choice to add to the assortment of colors allready in the box!
B.
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Here's the pic.
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f311/vermonster13/ATL.jpg)
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V13, can the riser be modified to accept a plunger?
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Arvid will machine a berger button hole for use with the shelf or an elevated rest, whichever you prefer.
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V13 - I knew you and Arvid know what you were doing. there was never a doubt. I just had to figure it out in my mind, which is not always easy :) .
thanks
rusty
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I mounted my hybrid limbs on my Belcher 15" riser today. Butter smooth. Made a 66" bow. Arvid will be offering hybrids that will make a 60" bow on a 17" riser shortly.
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Woohoo! :D :D That means a 58" hybrid on a 15" riser is possible! (now leaving to do the happy dance in the back yard...)
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Thank you for the photo. Would you mind posting a photo like that, only with the limbs that were shown in your original post?
Best of luck.
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I set the limbs up from original post with ILF bushings and put them on my Belcher riser. I called Arvid and had him take those pictures just for this thread. The limbs ordered with the ATL risers won't be drilled through like mine are, the ones ordered to be set-up for other risers will.
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I might of missed something a few posts back; but why didn't the bowyer just put a dovetail in this riser. What is the advantage of not having a dovetail in this riser?
I'm not too sure about the angle of the limb changing over the pin, but I'm no authority anyway.
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Pics of the limbs on my 15" Belcher ILF.
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f311/vermonster13/SaleBows015.jpg)
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f311/vermonster13/SaleBows016.jpg)
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f311/vermonster13/SaleBows018.jpg)