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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Freebooter on December 18, 2009, 08:40:00 PM

Title: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Freebooter on December 18, 2009, 08:40:00 PM
Hello all,
I asked this question on the Shooters' Forum and when I got a notice that someone posted a reply and clicked on it the page said "thread does not exist". Perhaps that was the wrong forum to post it.

Anyway, I have thought of getting me a Howard Hill "Big five" bow. I was wondering if anyone had one and how does it shoot? Smooth, handshock, arrow speed, etc.. I am just curious and want to know before I plan on ordering one.
Thanks,
Freebooter
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: R H Clark on December 18, 2009, 08:44:00 PM
To me all the Hill bows have too much handshock.A lot of folks love them.Best advice I could give is try one first and decide for yourself.

Where in Alabama are you?
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Freebooter on December 18, 2009, 08:49:00 PM
Millbrook, about 15 miles from Montgomery
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Ray_G on December 18, 2009, 08:53:00 PM
What Mr. Clark has said is true - see if you can find a Hill style bow to shoot so that you know.  I have a Hill style bow that I just love.  I do not feel any difference in the hand than other bows.  A lot has to do with how you grip the handle and using an arrow with enough weight.  There are a lot of posts on here about that.  You can do a bit of a search using the link at the top of the page to see all the members comments.

If you like 'em, you probably won't have just one!  Planning my next one, now.     :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Bill Skinner on December 18, 2009, 08:54:00 PM
If you can come to the Feb 3-D shoot at Tannehill State Park, I will let you shoot both of my Big 5's.  One is 68" with a large straight grip and the other is 66" with a forward handle.  Both are 55# at 28".  Bill
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Mudd on December 18, 2009, 09:01:00 PM
Freebooter are you sure you don't have some Highlander blood in you. I thought, Galdangit He's trying to torture me more since he knows I just got one but can't shoot it...lol
 God bless,Mudd
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: GingivitisKahn on December 18, 2009, 09:59:00 PM
I haven't shot the Big Five, but my Halfbreed doesn't have a bit of handshock now that I'm holding it correctly.  It's smooth, light and fun to shoot.  I still like recurves, but can't imagine really switching back to one any time soon.
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Benny Nganabbarru on December 18, 2009, 10:05:00 PM
75# Wesley Special for me, and no hand-shock the way I hold it.

 (http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/b_kleinig/Archery%20Practice/IMG_0287-Copy.jpg)

  (http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/b_kleinig/Archery%20Practice/IMG_0278-Copy.jpg)
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Freebooter on December 18, 2009, 10:13:00 PM
Hello all,
Actually my Northern Mist longbow is a Howard Hill style bow if I am not mistaken. It has a very shallow shelf and it is a straight bow, with the long ends going to elegant points. It is actually very smooth with little to no handshock. I was just curious about the HH  company's bows. A buddy of mine bought one Jerry Hill's bows, 55lb. I shot it and it is a pretty bow and nice to shoot.
FB
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: R H Clark on December 18, 2009, 10:32:00 PM
If you like the Jerry Hill bows you probably will like any Howard Hill bow.
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: David Mitchell on December 18, 2009, 10:38:00 PM
I love Hills and own four of them.  Two are Tembos--one a take down.  They are actually to my mind the sweetest shooters of the four.  The others are a Redman and a Wesley Special. If you have a Northern Mist they are very similar if you have the Classic.  I own one of them too and like it a lot.  If you think the Jerry Hill is nice to shoot you whould really love the Howard Hill.  Service on orders is second to none....great folks to deal with.
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: straitera on December 18, 2009, 10:55:00 PM
Hill shooters find special connection with simple elegance & seasoned history that has been since Howard. Heard great things from Hill friends about Northern Mist but never shot one. I'd not trade one of my Hills except for another. Grip careless, it'll shake you like you've grabbed bare AC.
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: far rider on December 19, 2009, 12:18:00 AM
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac144/timwsmith/028.jpg)

 (http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac144/timwsmith/028.jpg)

Now, I am not going to claim to be an authority about Hills, by any means, but..., I love mine. My bows range from 50@28-56@28. 68"-70". I pull around 31". I have not experienced hand shock, at all. As a matter of fact, my Wesly is the sweetest shooting bow I have ever owned. Not saying the other guys are wrong, but as I understand from some of the other posts, proper brace height, grip, and properly spined arrows mean everything. If it is properly tuned, it is a sweet shooting, accurate dream to shoot. Just my opinion.

Go to the Howard Hill websight. Craig Ekin is a super guy, and will take the time to answer ALL of your questions. In his online catalog there is a page that explains how to figure the fps your bow should shoot. It is 115 fps plus the draw weight of the bow. Average is around 180 fps. My Big 5 by the way is the hardest hitting bow of the lot.

far rider
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: far rider on December 19, 2009, 12:19:00 AM
sorry for the double pic post.
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Mudd on December 19, 2009, 01:48:00 AM
I just noticed something on the bows pictured here and maybe its nothing but at least I'll know the answer if I ask the question and someone who knows responds.

What is the significance of the letters preceding the serial numbers on each bow.  On my Big 5 they are BC.

Thanks in advance.
God bless,Mudd
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Benny Nganabbarru on December 19, 2009, 04:40:00 AM
I think the first letter(s) is the first initial of the bow model, and the C stands for Craig (the bowyer).
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: fireball31 on December 19, 2009, 05:32:00 AM
I love my big 5.  Locater grip, 68" 61 lbs at 29" draw.  No hand shock whatsoever.
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: QUINT on December 19, 2009, 05:51:00 AM
No hand shock here. Tembo t/d. Sweetest shooter of the several Hill's I've owned. None had any hand shock. 2 were big five's, one by Craig and one early one by one of the early bowyers who made bows for Howard.
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Freebooter on December 19, 2009, 06:13:00 AM
Thanks guys, very interesting. I love my bow, but just want to get me a "Big Five" one day simply because I am Howard Hill fan, especially since he is from near my neck of the woods in Alabama and Howard Hill Archery was the company that he was a part of.

 Something interesting: I grew up with and went to school with some of his kin folks, great nephews, etc... They told me that around the time of his death when they tried to do some sort of surgery on his chest, that his chest, shoulders, back and upper torso muscles were so hard and tough from his lifetime of shooting powerful bows that they could hardly work on him and could barely get his chest open because of it.
Later,
FB
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: jsweka on December 19, 2009, 06:54:00 AM
I don't own a Hill, but I've made a few "Hill style" bows.  As far as handshock in this design of bow, I really think it is a relative thing.  I've been shooting my "Hill style" bows for about three years now an never noticed any handshock.  A couple weeks ago I picked up my Great Plains recurve which I haven't shot in a few years just for something different.  A couple days later I pulled out one of my longbows again and shot it. Holy cow did it kick!! Never noticed it before.  Maybe I was holding it wrong just going from my recurve?  A couple shots later it seemed the handshock went away again.  So I think handshock may be something you get use to and don't even notice if you like the bow.  I think if guys who disregard them because of handshock would give them an honest try, they might change their minds.
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Stone Knife on December 19, 2009, 07:59:00 AM
I have had several HIll's, and still own a Big Five and I'm a big Hill bow fan but they can be shocky compared to bows of other designs. The shock can be tamed with a proper hold like Ben showed in his post and also heavy arrows, with this combination it seems to go away. They are not speed demons but will cast an arrow nice and are dead silent. Just going out and shooting one once will not tell you if you like or dislike a Hill, I feel they are a mindset and an acquired taste, that improves with each time out, it is quite a feeling to take a big or small game animal with a Hill. You need to make up your own mind and go with it.

   (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y275/420W/IM000862.jpg)

   (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y275/420W/IM000857.jpg)
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: JRY309 on December 19, 2009, 08:06:00 AM
I had always heard of the handshock,but when I traded for one I didn't notice any.I really enjoy shooting my Hill's,I missed out alot on shooting them listening to the stories of handshock.There is just something about the deep core D-shaped bows that appeals to me.They are alot of fun shooting them.
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: JV Rooster on December 19, 2009, 08:10:00 AM
Could it be the bow model and the last letter witch is c stand for the makers name?
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Irish Archer on December 19, 2009, 10:37:00 AM
Yes it is. "B" is for Big Five and "C" is for Craig.
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: far rider on December 19, 2009, 10:54:00 AM
Ben is correct Mudd, about the letters. In the ones pictured from my post from left to right. Cheetah, Big 5, Wesley, wesley
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: GingivitisKahn on December 19, 2009, 10:55:00 AM
Heh - I learned something today.  I always thought the HB on my riser was for Half Breed.  Who is B?
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: SCATTERSHOT on December 19, 2009, 11:18:00 AM
B= Big 5, C= Craig Eakin. The first two numbers are the length of the bow.

A Wesley Special by Craig would be WCxxxx
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: bicster on December 19, 2009, 11:20:00 AM
Stone Knife said it best. Trying it once won't give you an idea. You need to commit to using it. At least, for me that was my experience.
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Mudd on December 19, 2009, 11:29:00 AM
Mine is BC. Thanks for the education.
God bless,Mudd
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Irish Archer on December 19, 2009, 01:52:00 PM
GK,

Well, I was pretty sure that's what it was supposed to be. Maybe I spoke out of turn. If so, sorry. Then again, maybe yours is a typo, now worth thousands of dollars to the right Hill collector.......  :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: ron w on December 19, 2009, 02:04:00 PM
I have a Jerry Hill, got it on a trade. Never heard a good thing about them but I thought I would try one. 50# @ 28" 68"long. Its one of my favorite bows now.Smooth, silent, no hand shock, just a lil thump at the shot. Just ordered a Apex Predator Cumberland {Hill Style bow}, I'm like'n these "D" shaped Hill style bows alot. Thought I would have a problem with the lenght-66-68" but it don't seem to matter much!
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Brad Davis on December 19, 2009, 03:42:00 PM
I have a Big Five. Only longbow I own. I just need to work on my grip with it. I shoot mainly recurves and longbows are new to me. It is super light weight and no noticeable handshock, quiet as a mouse too and fast. In my case I just need to work with it a bit to be comfortable hunting with it. Craig is super to deal with too. Affordable well built bows with quick return time. Cant go wrong with a HH in my opinion.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: stabow on December 19, 2009, 04:13:00 PM
Hey freebooter I just moved back to Al. recently and living up in Deatsville at this time I have several Hills but all of them are in storage right now. Might run into you at one of the local shoots......stabow
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: GingivitisKahn on December 19, 2009, 05:26:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Irish Archer:
GK,

Well, I was pretty sure that's what it was supposed to be. Maybe I spoke out of turn. If so, sorry. Then again, maybe yours is a typo, now worth thousands of dollars to the right Hill collector.......   :bigsmyl:  
Hehe that's the ticket.  :-p
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Freebooter on December 19, 2009, 06:37:00 PM
Hey Stabow! Dang man! I live in Grandview Pines here in Millbrook right across from Devenshire Apts, just a skip away from you! We ought to get together sometime! I cn't do much as far as getting out, shooting and hunting due to a toe I broke Tuesday night. I can't hardly put on a shoe right now. But we could talk shop, etc..
Give me a holler! I am fixing to PM you.
FB
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Sam McMichael on December 19, 2009, 08:04:00 PM
I have a Wesley Special and a Big 5. I do not notice any hand shock. Last spring, I was approached by a fellow at a shoot asking advice on reducing the hand shock of his new Hill. He didn't care much for my first suggestion - which was to sell it to me at a really good price. When I shot his bow, I didn't notice it to be shocky. I think the manner in which you grip the bow and the weight of your arrows play a big role in hand shock. I grip my bow solidly down  on the heel of my hand. Not a death grip but still very snug. Heavy arrows help and so does brace height. For that item you need to tinker a bit to get the best combination of noise control and comfort. Shoot one a while and judge for yourself, but as for me, I love 'em.
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Freebooter on December 19, 2009, 08:25:00 PM
Yep, that 5 lam bow is the one I was interested in. I have no problem with mine, although not from that company, is a HH style bow with a very shallow shelf and all, straight limbs, etc.. It is four lams of bamboo and glass. It actually very beautiful to me and very smooth with no handshock to me. Since I can't afford it any time soon, I will probably just stick with mine. It is just that I want one from the company HH help to start and bears his name.
Later,
FB
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Freebooter on December 19, 2009, 08:38:00 PM
Hey Ron,
Yes, I too have heard a couple of guys say bad things about Jerry Hill bows. But I am with you and disagree with them totally. That one my buddy has, is a 55lb @ 28" and is beautiful and a joy to shoot, just like you said very smooth and quiet and flings a reasonably fast arrow. He wants to sell it now that I think of it and I might bye it in the near future.

He bought from Jerry Hill himself. We drove up to Jerry Hill's property, and he and his wife treated me and my buddy like family, took us around and showed us around, took us in their home and we sat in the Living Room, drank iced tea with them and just sat and chit chatted and had a good ol' time. He showed us some of his personal memorabilia left him by Howard, his uncle. I mean they were just swell folks.  I think I am going to go visit them again one of these days.

So, if I ever hear anyone saying bad things about Jerry Hill's bows I am going to tell them the one I handled and shot was a beauty!
Later,
FB
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Overspined on December 19, 2009, 09:34:00 PM
why shoot any longbow other than a Hill style???? the only way to go! lol I love them
My opinion is that there is just a different feel than a R/D longbow. It is not really hand shock if you hold it right, but it is definately a different feel upon release. Not bad, but different.
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: bowmofo on December 20, 2009, 01:49:00 AM
I got a few hill style bows at a discount from guys who didn't hold them properly,
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: John McCreary on December 20, 2009, 01:51:00 AM
Comparing a Jerry Hill to a Howard HIll built by Craig Akin is like comparing a VW beattle to a Porche. Similar concept but a whole world diffrence. Craig makes the best commercially available Hill style longbow, PERIOD! Smooth, stable, sweet to shoot and no measurable handshock...just my "unbiased" point of view...

John
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Mudd on December 20, 2009, 06:51:00 AM
If there's anyone out there with a Howard Hill bow other than the Big 5 (which I have) that just can't live with how the bow feels to them I would invite them to get in touch with me. I don't have lots of extra money laying around but I would gladly buy one on time payments. They would keep the bow until it was paid for in full.
I say this and I've yet to put an arrow out of my own bow but come Jan 21st I'll be smoking up an arrow rest and back plate.
 I am totally convinced that I'm gonna become one of those Howard Hill fanatics. I was just awestruck as Jeff would bring my bow back to anchor, then loose the arrow. I couldn't see any part of the experience that didn't draw me to it like the worlds' largest love magnet.
 Thanks for putting up with my drivel.
God bless,Mudd
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: GingivitisKahn on December 20, 2009, 08:51:00 AM
Mudd - between now and 21-Jan, you need to watch Tembo and a bunch of HH shorts several times a day.  When your day finally arrives, you'll be beside yourself with HH shooting fervor.

BTW - when are we going to get to see pictures of this new weapon of yours (or did I just overlook them)?
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Irish Archer on December 20, 2009, 09:57:00 AM
Yea, PICTURES! Isn't that a rule or something? Well.......it should be.  :jumper:
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Renaissance Man on December 20, 2009, 11:57:00 AM
For those who have a Hill and who are having problems with a perceived hand shock I would offer an observation from many years shooting longbows.
Do as suggested above and watch some films of Howard or of John Shultz shoot their bows. O rhook up with a good archer in your area and watch. Then go and watch guys shoot their recurves or hybrids or whatever.
Two points you will eventually see. Shooting a curve or similar is more or a static bow arm, focused point grip shooting style. It is inherent in the pistol grip of the bow, and works well.
watch Hill shoot, it is a fluid full hand grip push the bow arm and pull the string arm movement.
Movement in the direction of the target of the bow arm.
When a Gent who came into my shop tried to shoot a Longbow after a lifetime of some variation of a pistol grip often heard was the comment of hand shock type of feel until that fluid movement was demonstrated, until the grip was modified. Then a smile slowly emerged.
Consider this and don't sell a beautiful bow without a proper informed go at it.
if you still want to sell a sweet Hill cheap, let me know.
Bill
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: cahaba on December 20, 2009, 01:07:00 PM
I grew up with Jerry. Hes a great guy and did alot to promote traditional archery. I don't have any of his bows anymore but I could shoot them well.
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Freebooter on December 20, 2009, 02:48:00 PM
Dang, I have the shooting and/or hunting fever now but naturally broke my little toe a few days ago! But in a week or so I will try to go hunting. I want to go to teh spot where all those danged Armadillos were. Plenty of deer and hog tracks too.
Later,
FB
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Freebooter on December 20, 2009, 03:44:00 PM
Hey Cahaba,
Do you still live in Alabama? Just curious. I want to go to HH's grave oneday and don't even know how to get to it or where it is. Jerry told us but we could not go that time and since then have forgotten his directions.
FB
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Irish Archer on December 20, 2009, 06:55:00 PM
FB,

If you go to howardhilllongbowmen.com there should be a thread about Howards gravesite and how to get there.......Peace
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: John McCreary on December 21, 2009, 12:07:00 AM
MUDD, I don't recall. Are you a lefty? I've a sweet 46@28" Hill Big Five built by Ted Krammer...if'n your interested.

John
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Mudd on December 21, 2009, 02:21:00 AM
No John I shoot the other way. But if it would improve my shooting I'd even hold the bow in my left hand..lol
God bless you brother. You wrote something recently that made for some interesting questions to go thru my mind. Kninda makes me want to say as in the words of some famous female.."Can we talk?" But I sure don't need to stick my nose in where it's not needed.
I think of you quite often, nothing really bad either..lol
With all the love that is Christ Jesus
Mudd
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: NancyVTAS on December 21, 2009, 01:30:00 PM
Just got a 68" cheetah 56#@28 today !!I notice no hand shock at all. Just for more bows I got a Jay St, Charles Pacific Classic yesterday 53# @28 66"!  Pretty good week so far! Dick
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: arrow flynn on December 21, 2009, 03:20:00 PM
string follow shoots the best for me i do have ahoward hill but my nate steen  makes me a better shot
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: RC on December 21, 2009, 07:20:00 PM
I`ve shot Hill style bows a good bit the last few years and I got to say I love them. Not the fastest but the quietist. I lov`em. I had a Cheetah and I`ve shot a Wesley and it was even sweeter. That being said... The Hill Style bow Marty of Apex bows builds is the best Hill style bow I`ve shot. Flawless craftsmanship and hits where your looking.RC
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: shakeyslim on December 21, 2009, 08:22:00 PM
i've heard it said many times--------- its the indian not the arrow  :goldtooth:
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: mike g on December 22, 2009, 12:16:00 PM
I love my Big 5....68" 49 @ 29 Real quiet and smooth shooter....
    And Craig is a great guy to deal with....
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Rik on December 23, 2009, 11:48:00 PM
My Wesley Specials are die-hard killers. Bear, moose, boar, mule deer, elk, Australian Buff, rabbits, rock chucks, they do it all with class.

Still, I've never shot a Big Five anywhere near my preferred weight.

For you guys who hunt with both, is there any difference in how they shoot?
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: frankwright on December 24, 2009, 12:11:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Rik:
My Wesley Specials are die-hard killers. Bear, moose, boar, mule deer, elk, Australian Buff, rabbits, rock chucks, they do it all with class.

Still, I've never shot a Big Five anywhere near my preferred weight.

For you guys who hunt with both, is there any difference in how they shoot?
I think so. I have both and I love the Big Fives but to me the Wesley is a tad bit softer shooting.
When I bought my last Hill I was torn between the smoothness of the Wesley and the beauty of the Cheetah so Craig suggested adding a lam to the Cheetah would make it shoot like the Wesley.
It did and does and it is one bow I can not see me being without.
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: ny state land on December 24, 2009, 10:29:00 AM
Also are these bows FF?
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: Mudd on December 24, 2009, 11:10:00 AM
Hahaha!! I can see the handwriting on the wall. Go ahead Stacy.. sorry bud but you've been bitten and about all you can do is make room in your rack.  lol
God bless,Mudd
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: SCATTERSHOT on December 24, 2009, 11:20:00 AM
NY state land, Craig says that you can use FF on his bows, but he doesn't recommend it, as it may shorten the life of the bow.
Title: Re: Howard Hill "Big Five" bow?
Post by: ny state land on December 24, 2009, 11:40:00 AM
Thanks guys.  My Thunder Stick III is getting very nervous!