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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: kanmatt on January 06, 2010, 02:59:00 PM

Title: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: kanmatt on January 06, 2010, 02:59:00 PM
I was thinking of trying out some 4", 4 fletch arrows.  Those of you that like this set up, do you still put a helical on them or just offset a little?
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: lpcjon2 on January 06, 2010, 03:04:00 PM
I what the skinny on this as well!
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: ishiwannabe on January 06, 2010, 03:06:00 PM
I do mine with a regular helical clamp. I have done some with an offset and straight clamp, and I cant tell a difference.

I think the only limit to a helical would be skinny shafts, like Beeman mfx.

I use 4" parabolics.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Bowspirit on January 06, 2010, 03:10:00 PM
I use a helical clamp, but like Jamie, can't really tell the difference between 4 helical and 4 offset.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: kanmatt on January 06, 2010, 03:12:00 PM
Thanks! Keeps me from having to buy a new clamp.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Fritz on January 06, 2010, 03:34:00 PM
I use a Bitz to fletch mine. I just adjust the helical so that the fletch lays well on the shaft.  I guess it's between a offset and a hard helical.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Rufus on January 06, 2010, 03:43:00 PM
I use the same clamps. Works fine for me.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: DannyBows on January 06, 2010, 03:43:00 PM
Same as Fritz, as much helical as I can get out of my Bitz. 4" nanners and shields work great for me.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Tom Leemans on January 06, 2010, 03:44:00 PM
Offset works good as helical in my book.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Bill Carlsen on January 06, 2010, 04:24:00 PM
I am very old school and was taught to use helical and that is what I still use. I started to shoot 4 X 4" feathers about four seasons ago and have absolutely found any good reason to do anything differently. The more helical I can get the better.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Tom on January 06, 2010, 04:27:00 PM
Are people using 90 degree or 105x75 degree or does it make a difference since most shoot off the shelf.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: shadman on January 06, 2010, 04:37:00 PM
I use helical,4 inch, shield cut. I generally use the 105 X 75 but really haven't noticed any difference when I tried 90 degrees.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Fletcher on January 06, 2010, 04:43:00 PM
I do all my 4 fletch in helical.  I don't worry about how much, I just adjust the jig so the feathers sit squarely on the shaft.  It will always be enuf twist.

90x90 has been working very well for me.  I've done the 105x75, but it seems to hit the shelf sometimes or I have to move my nocking point up.  90 deg four fletch has been around for MANY years and it can be seen in some of the '40's and 50's publications.  The 75x105 was started for the compounds to give better cable clearance.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Ray_G on January 06, 2010, 04:45:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Tom:
Are people using 90 degree or 105x75 degree or does it make a difference since most shoot off the shelf.
In the past, I have seen posts where both and even 60 x 120 were being used.  Use what works best for you and suits your visual pleasure.  I shoot 4" low profile bananas 75 x 105 offset with the 75 at 12 and 6 o'clock.  I get great flight even with broadheads.  My buddy and I were out shooting at rabbits in sage brush last Saturday and he commented on my arrow flight.  He shoots 3 5 or 5 1/2" helical shields.  Played HORSE with some foot tall sage brush as we roved.  I took it as a compliment but it all goes to tuning and what your bow / arrow set up likes.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Ray_G on January 06, 2010, 04:49:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Fletcher:
I've done the 105x75, but it seems to hit the shelf sometimes or I have to move my nocking point up.  90 deg four fletch has been around for MANY years and it can be seen in some of the '40's and 50's publications.  The 75x105 was started for the compounds to give better cable clearance.
Rick,

So does the 75 x 105 work well for me on my Hill style due to the narrow shelf and before center cut?  I get good clearance on this bow unlike some in the past when I tried 60 x 120.

Ray
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Pierre Lucas on January 06, 2010, 05:09:00 PM
Just switched this year to 4 4" fletch from 3 5" fletch.  Using Jo Jan multi fletcher 90x90 with left helical.
 (http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg54/PierreLucas/f1.jpg)  (http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg54/PierreLucas/f2.jpg)

You definitely need to bare shaft prior to using 4 fletch with a helical because most anything will fly like a dart.  Stablizes right out of the bow.  It works very well when you get a bad release and helps the arrow recover quicker.

God Bless,    Pierre
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Jason R. Wesbrock on January 06, 2010, 07:07:00 PM
Like Rick, I put enough helical on them so that the quill sits well on the shaft.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Rob DiStefano on January 06, 2010, 07:19:00 PM
it's all good, do what you want.  that's a neat thing about trad.

for me it's 4"x4, 75x105 or 90x90, slight offset, never ever want any helical.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Whip on January 06, 2010, 07:41:00 PM
I've seen you state that before Rob, about not wanting any helical, and it has me curious.  Have you seen problems with helical that make you feel that way or is it just a preference?  I've used 4 feather helical, and haven't been able to see problems, but I'm always looking to learn from someone else's experiences!
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Steve O on January 06, 2010, 10:28:00 PM
My guess is that feathers have a natural helical even when they are put on straight and it enough to spin the arrow plenty.  Is that correct Rob?
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: JAG on January 06, 2010, 11:49:00 PM
105x75, 5.5 low pro. nanners, helical.  Shoots great out of all my bows..custom longbow or home made self bow.
Whatever flies your arrow!  This is trad.  Go for it!
JAG/Johnny
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: amar911 on January 07, 2010, 12:06:00 AM
90 x 90 helical.

Allan
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Gordon martiniuk on January 07, 2010, 12:45:00 AM
offset all the way no need for helical as 4 fletch is a lot of steering  ,,  you get a fair amount of spin with the  natural shape of feathers   :archer:
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Bill Carlsen on January 07, 2010, 10:05:00 AM
I used to have 3 Jo jans when I was making arrows. I sold two of them when I stopped without giving any thought to the four fletch indexers. When I decided to try the four fletch the indexers i had were 75 X 105.  I had never tried that configuration before but gave it a try, just the same. It turned out that I liked that set up better than the 90 X 90 I experimented with in the past. Using the 75 X 105 I have achieved the best arrow flight since I started shooting in the 50's. I am not necessarily saying that is what you should do, just that it has worked the best for me with my current set up. It seems to do the same for my wife...she loves the arrow flight she gets with that configuration.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Pierre Lucas on January 07, 2010, 10:10:00 AM
If you can put helical, why not put helical?

I kind of equate this to a bullet leaving the barrel of a gun. Spin equal stability.  Longer the projectile the more spin necessary to stabilize?
To put it simply, more spin more stability. Isn't that what we are trying to achieve?  Is there such a thing as over stabilizing?

Throw a football without spin?

I know that projectiles can be unstable.
 
Helical reduces velocity but at what distance?

Just some thoughts..way too much coffee this morning....

God Bless,   Pierre
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: riivioristo on January 07, 2010, 12:55:00 PM
90 ยค 90 is much more pleasant to look, I think...if that matters though  ;)
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: kctreeman on January 07, 2010, 12:58:00 PM
Yes as much as I can get on my AD tradlites.I just used my Jo Jan with offset clamps.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Jason R. Wesbrock on January 07, 2010, 01:14:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pierre Lucas:
If you can put helical, why not put helical?

I kind of equate this to a bullet leaving the barrel of a gun. Spin equal stability.  Longer the projectile the more spin necessary to stabilize?
To put it simply, more spin more stability. Isn't that what we are trying to achieve?  Is there such a thing as over stabilizing?

Throw a football without spin?

I know that projectiles can be unstable.
 
Helical reduces velocity but at what distance?

Just some thoughts..way too much coffee this morning....

God Bless,   Pierre
I agree, which is why I fletch my arrows helical. As far as at what distance the velocity difference is noticable, it's a lot further than I suspect most anyone here is capable of reliably killing big game.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: snag on January 07, 2010, 01:38:00 PM
I see no drawbacks to helical also. I do see drawbacks to not using helical...stability in all conditions. I have switched to 4 4" and love them with the helical that the Bitz provides.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: reddogge on January 07, 2010, 02:11:00 PM
SteveO, I don't want to answer for Rob but I used to shoot 3-4"x5/8" fletch with a slight offset in a straight clamp.  Basically the offset,about a quill's width is enough to spin a broadhead just fine. A straight fletch would have absolutely no offet at all and I wouldn't use that one.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Fletcher on January 07, 2010, 02:47:00 PM
Ray, The 75x105 would likely shoot just fine.  The feathers will set a little lower, but not in quite as much as with 90x90.  The only way to really know is to fletch some up and shoot 'em.  I've shot both and have been using the 90x90 for many years now.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Shinken on January 10, 2010, 12:20:00 AM
Shooting off an elevated finger rest - with plastic vanes - 75x105 seems to be optimal.

With feather fletch 90x90, 60x120, and 75x105 ALL work well with a properly spined shaft.

Shoot straight, Shinken
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Don Baker on January 10, 2010, 12:46:00 AM
I like a 90 deg. with helical best.

Straight fletch works just fine too, but I can count the number of rotations the arrow makes going to the target and it just looks weird.

I like to see a spinning ball of color going to the target and that is what helical will do for you.

Don
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Smallwood on January 10, 2010, 10:32:00 AM
I use 4"shield 4-fletch rw helical on a jojan multifletcher. with the 90 degree nock receiver.
and I index the fletch so when nocked, and looking at it from the rear, it forms an 'X'.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Bill Kissner on January 10, 2010, 02:00:00 PM
In my opinion, if you have a well tuned arrow, helical is not needed. Straight or offset fletchings attributes are lack of noise and a faster arrow downrange. I use 4 fletch, 4 inch feathers, set slightly offset.
Title: Re: Question for you 4 fletch shooters
Post by: Flathead Willie on January 10, 2010, 02:19:00 PM
I've been shooting 4 fletched arrows for years. I use a Jo-Jan with straight clamps. I don't think they shoot as well as 3 fletched off the shelf, so I use a Bear Bristle rest about 1/2" above the shelf. That set up has been working real well for me.