Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Chris Shelton on January 31, 2010, 05:20:00 PM
-
Well I have been thinking about it for a while, and have finally decided to go for it. I want to make my arrow system more effective. I want to do so by increasing both my total weight and FOC. I currently have a boatload of Beeman ICS bowhunters and want to make them more effective and not buy different arrows!
I shoot a 55# greatree deer master takedown. My draw is 28"(nearly even), my arrows are Beeman ICS bowhunter shafts 400's 8.4 gpi, 29.5 inches, long. I shoot a 100 grain Stinger broadhead.
So what I was thinking is this . . . I am definatly going to go brass, probably 100 grains? I have a idea for weight tubes, I want to get the 5 gpi's and the 8's, and put the 8's half way up and the 5's in the rear. Making my shafts alone 485 grains, then with the 100 grain brass inserts and the 100 grain broadhead I will be up to around 685 grains!
This is a big difference from my 385 total grains now! SO I dont know how bad it will effect my shooting! So I will definatly experiment! Any thoughts?
-
I think you will find that at close ranges the weight change is easy to accomodate. That heavy of an arrow takes some work to adjust to past 25 yards. They really drop off at long ranges.
-
Adding front end weight will change the tune or dynamic spine of your arrows,you may have to go to a stiffer spine.Why do you want to get a 685 gr. arrow for a 55# bow.I like to keep my arrows in the 9-11 gpp range.I would try some heavier heads and see how they fly.
-
I'm currently shooting a 740 gr. Ad Traditionals out of my 2 longbows. I have a 100 gr brass insert, with a 260 gr field point. I've tried weight tubes before these and had a HARD time getting them "quiet", and so they would not pop my nocks off. Nothings worked with the tubes. I tried crimping,taping, glueing, along with other things and just could not get them to work. Thats when I switched to the AD's with the front end beefed up.
Ragnarok Forge is right, they do drop off quick past 25 yards, but like anything else, it takes time to train your brain, then its a "piece of cake", so to speak. Shooting heavy arrows not only makes them hit hard, but really quiets the bow down as well...Hope this helps
:thumbsup:
-
How about cutting your arrow down to about 28.75", add a 100 gr. insert, set side plate at about 1/8" from center cut, and then about a 175 gr. or more in point? You could get a mid 500 gr. arrow with 22-23% FOC and still have good speed. You would have a very deadly arrow, and a lot more punch than you have now. When tuned right it will fly very well, and be quiet with nothing popping out of it when you hit something hard. There is nothing that bow and arrow wouldn't kill that I would shoot with a 55# bow. It would be easy to try out to see how you like it before loading them up with tubes. If you want more weight I would go with heavier shafts like CE's. I know you have a pile of shaft, but those weight tubes to me just seem like a lot of hassle.
-
Well thanks guys. To be honest, I wasnt to thrilled about weight tubes, but I figured they were cheap and possibly worth a try. But I dont think I will after what frassettor has said! Quiet is important to me, lol. I think brass will be a good move! If I have to I will increase my bh weight, but I have a bunch of those too. I will say that my system has worked in the past. It is just the end of deer season, so I figured now is the time to make it better! And with all of Doc's studies showing that FOC make a big difference, I want to get in on the party!!!
-
Just be carefull the first few times you shoot it.Don't want to hit yourself in the foot. :biglaugh:
-
300 gr increase from a 55# bow is a lot.
And regardless of what some will say, there will be a significant change is trajectory. If convinced that a 300 gr increase is needed on a system that has worked well for you, spend a lot of time shooting unknown distances on varyied terrain to see how much the trajectory change effects your accuracy.
-
Originally posted by James Wrenn:
Just be carefull the first few times you shoot it.Don't want to hit yourself in the foot. :biglaugh:
(http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/spit.gif)
-
I have always been a big believer in 10 grains of arrow weight per pound of draw weight for a bunch of reasons to include accuracy and bow life. Right now you are right at 7. By making your arrows/points heavier you will be making them dynamically weaker. Straight flight should be job one, and shooting bare shaft is the very best way to get there. Every bow and archer is different, but I believe you can get there with the 400s. I recommend you cut them to 28" and get some regular inserts (the ones they came with). Then get a series of screw in points from 125 - 300 grains. I bet the 275 grain would be perfect. You can then get some 190 grizzlies (about 175 grains after the angle is changed to 25 degrees and they are sharpened)and 90 grain or 100 grain steel adapters, that will get you just over 10 grain per pound with a setup that will easily kill everything on the North American continent and most things everywhere else.
-
If you are after increased FOC, you wouldn't need the weight tubes. The arrows you have are just fine imo, ust increase your point weight and is it shows weak, then you can add some thickness to your shelf to get your arrows to tune at the point weight and foc you desire to reach.
-
if i wuz you, i wouldn't use an arrow much less than a tad under 9gpp - not good for your bow or you ... or your bowstring.
do some 'sperimentin' - by changing only the point weights, make up one of each fletched arrow weight - 9gpp, 10gpp, 11gpp, 12gpp.
shoot each each at 5 yards, 15 yards and 30 yards.
your only interest is the trajectory of each arrow, not so much the flight (unless it's that bad). the idea is get a feel for each arrow's trajectory as it applies to the game you seek and that game's hunting venue, i.e. a flatter flying arrow for open country critters as opposed to dense woods game.
pick the arrow weight that works best for you, juggle the spine and foc to make it fly the best it can. a well flying arrow out of the most holding weight you can handle is the first biggest step for good hunting, imo.
-
Right On Target Rob! :thumbsup:
... mike ...
-
Alright guys, I will do some experiementing! How are you guys calculating GPP, I have never done so before!?
-
Originally posted by Chris Shelton:
Alright guys, I will do some experiementing! How are you guys calculating GPP, I have never done so before!?
Take your total arrow weight and divide it by your draw weight at your draw length.
Ex: 500gr arrow and 50# draw weight
500/50 = 10gpp
Bisch
-
Weight tubes work but to make them noise free you will have to glue them into shafts ,, another thing you could do is foot arrows with aluminum 2117 work on larger sized carbons .. I have used footings of 3.5" and epoxyed them on,, with 100 gr brass inserts and 250gr broadheads gives me over 650 gr weight with a 30" arrow also footing makes your arrows bomb proof>>
-
As is usually the case, Rob is right on target. Getting a feel for the difference in shooting with the heavy arrow will definitely take some getting used to. I normally shoot about 650-680 grains in bows 53# - 57# at my 27 in draw length. I have shot that weight for so long that if I try something even as light as 500 grains (which is still not a super-light arrow for a 53# bow) I shoot a foot to foot and a half over everything. You will be going the other way, but there will no doubt be a learning curve. Once your brain catalogues that new trajectory you will be fine. I shoot ground squirrels out to 30 - 35 yards with my set up and have never shot myself in the foot even once. Also, Gordon is right on with the footing concept. It can be used to both add point weight and to stiffen the front part of the arrow if your spine is weak.
-
Well I adjust suprisingly fast. I went from the heavier version of these arrows to the ones that were spined correctly which was only a difference of about 50 grains, but I still adjusted quicly. I ordered brass inserts. that was one of the first things Dave Petersen suggested. And if they dont work I am only out 10 bucks. I am pretty sure they will, I will just set up one, and bare shaft tune it to see what happeneds? That will boost my total arrow weight to 447.8 grains, and will probably double my FOC? We will see!
-
With the same arrow, there is no way you are going to add 300 grains without seeing a change in dynamic spine...
I've used weight tubes with great success to add 100 grains to an arrow. They fit snugly into my carbons. I do have to glue the nocks in, but that's not exactly a big deal.
Is the noise y'all are seeing with weight tubes a specific shaft manufacturer problem? I have to say, I haven't seem any noise out of them at all.
-
You could shoot a 250 gr broadhead/ point combo and forget the weight tubes and inserts. Inserts just add another 10 bucks to a doz arrows and why not have that weight in extra cutting diameter and blade thickness, for extra durability foot with aluminum if ya want.
As far as making use of your stockpile of ICS's you might get them tuned before hit your min length of 29"ish or build out your side plate a bit or both.
I shoot 2 bows 55@28 with ICS's and a 250gr point/standard insert. This will put you at 10gpp with decent FOC, right in the middle ground of weight good cast and penetration
-
quote:
Originally posted by James Wrenn:
Just be carefull the first few times you shoot it.Don't want to hit yourself in the foot. :scared: :confused:
-
Originally posted by Chris Shelton:
My draw is 28"(nearly even), my arrows are Beeman ICS bowhunter shafts 400's 8.4 gpi, 29.5 inches, long.
... I will be up to around 685 grains!...
I was wondering if those shafts worked at the lighter weight?
Because...
I shoot the same shafts full length out of a 60# @ 30" recurve and needed 625 grns to get them to fly right. Anything lighter showed stiff.
Joshuaa