Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: NDTerminator on February 10, 2010, 05:06:00 AM
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Last night I noticed the DVR had recorded a new episode of Easton Bowhunting, the only hunting TV show I consider worth watching. I rather admire Fred as like me, he chooses to be as trad as he wants to be, and I openly admire his skill with a recurve...
Long story short, last night using his Palmer TD recurve, he arrows a major league Coues buck square through the heart from a gound blind at a measured 34 yards! I was about floored as those itty bitty deer are about the size of a big ND buck jackrabbit. Complete pass through, and talk about blood! the deer took off across the waterhole, leaving it looking like a shark had killed something in it!
I'm curious if anyone knows exactly what type of setup ol' Fred shoots, and his style?
He said he was using Easton Axis 400s and Muzzy Phantom 125's. He made no mention of any extra weight or brass inserts, and they looked to be fletched 3-4" feathers over a 7" wrap, maybe 30" BOP. Unless he added weight he didn't mention, I would be surprised if his arrow weighs in at more than 500 grains.
Doesn't appear he shoots major weight, either. I punched the above numbers into Stu's calculator and came up with a spine of 72#, but I didn't get the impression he was drawing near that much. He doesn't look to have a long draw, and is super smooth.
His style looks to be some type of gap. Although he shoots with a lot of cant, it appears too deliberate for true instinctive.
Anyone have any intel?...
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i think Fred draws about 31" ... and he shoots ok ... !!! lol
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He shoots instagap :) Couldn't help myself, not sure how he shoots except very well. It's funny he shot a compound on last episode and missed on the buck :)
Jack
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Fred Shoots a 54# bow and he actually has a rather long draw at 30.5 ". His total arrow weight is just under 500gr. His shooting style is true instinctive.
There is an interview with Fred with all of this in the latest Traditional Bowhunter Magazine.
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That was a great shot he made on that buck! I was impressed to say the least.
If you have the Masters of the Barebow video with Fred in it, he explains his setup and shooting style.
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Yep, have the video and recall him being in it, but won't have time to sit down and find it for a few days.
It's vaguely discouraging that I started shooting archery before bows had wheels and probably couldn't have made that shot with one of my recurves if someone bet me a grand and spotted me 3 practice arrows.
Figured what the hell, so I emailed him through his outfitting web page. I imagine he's pretty busy to answer stuff like that, but it can't hurt to ask...
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Fred is usually quick to answer questions that are put directly to him. Go to his website and e-mail him directly. Unless he is in the field, he will get back with you pronto. Also, don't be surprized if he pops up here and answers your questions. He has done it before. He is one of those guys with whom I would love to share a campfire. :campfire:
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when is the show on? i've not been able to find it lately
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I saw that show last night. One thing for certain, he was more then happy that he made the shot. 34 yards is a lot more realestate then I would shoot across. I was impressed.
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My wife & I were discussing the show & shot this morning. We both decided that, given the distance & angle, we would not have taken that shot if we had the oppportunity with our compounds sights & release.
That's no criticism of Fred, it's an homage. No question that shot was well within his range & skill envelope and he had every confidence he was going to nail it.
I've been shooting bows a long time and he's easily in the top three recurve shots I've ever seen...
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Does anyone remember seeing the shot on the big moose, last year (I say "big", because he shot a smaller one, also)? He never came clean (and I mean NOTHING by that....we joked about the shot distance in an email) on the actual distance....but it was definitely "out there".
"On the moose shot I will never tell !" - Fred E.
He's obviously a good shot. How good? Couldn't say.
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He has a [email protected] 62" palmer takedown. He draws 30.5 His arrows are obviously full length for a draw like that I would assume. His total arrow weight is just under 500 grain. He has used this setup or one very very similar on every one of the animal's he killed in the super slam. I emailed him the other day to see if he would be kind enough to tell me what his speeds are like through a chrony but no reply as of yet.
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Fred is featured in the Masters of the Bare Bow DVD where he explains his setup and shooting style. He does prefer his Palmer recurve and you guys got it right. He does shoot 54# and uses 400 Axis shafts or the FMJ and Muzzy Phantoms, which his wife manufactures...her dad founded Muzzy and she is the current CEO. On the DVD Fred says all he shoots is broadheads, which I would probably do if I had a never ending supply.
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I caught that one too, what a shot!!.....They didn't even show it in real speed, all slow mo!
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Great shot monster COWs deer but I thought the best part of the shot and most of his shots is his reaction once he realizes he has a good hit. He is so pumped and genuinely excited that it makes me smile and happy for him and, for me, is a big part of why I like to watch him.
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If you order his DVD's you will actually see the shots he misses on too. Not taking away from the games he gets...but he misses too.
I think if we all got paid somehow to JUST HUNT then we could do the same.
Professionals at anything are usually gifted (some not) ppl that practice constantly.
But like every professional they have OFF days.
I like his vids too, but I also like that he shows his BLOOPERS.
35 yards isn't a long shot BTW....most of us have shot gophers at 50+ yards.
Jer Bear
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Yea, that was a perfect shot. Down in 20 seconds, I loved it! Looks like everyone nailed his setup already. I'll have to get that Masters of the Barebow dvd sometime!
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Originally posted by Predator Man:
He has a [email protected] 62" palmer takedown. He draws 30.5 His arrows are obviously full length for a draw like that I would assume. His total arrow weight is just under 500 grain. He has used this setup or one very very similar on every one of the animal's he killed in the super slam. I emailed him the other day to see if he would be kind enough to tell me what his speeds are like through a chrony but no reply as of yet.
I used to shoot a Palmer that was 57# @ 32". With a 500-grain arrow, I was getting right around 200 fps. If I had to guess, I'd say Fred is probably shooting between 190 and 200 fps with his setup.
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I would agree Fred's show is the only one I consider watching on the hunting network anymore
It's one of the few non horn porn shows
cheers on mad skills
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Fred Eichler who is he I thougt he was a compound shooter.
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Jerry, if you don't consider a 35 yard front quartering heart shot on a coues deer to be remarkable, I salute you Don Corleone....
WV, Fred is primarily a recurve guy, but also shoots/hunts compounds as well. I wholeheartedly concur with this practice. I too love all forms of archery/bowhunting, and see no reason to limit myself, particularly to meet someone else's standard or Traditional.
He has a guide/outfitter business and is a pro staffer for Hoyt & Easton (and I imagine probably for other companies as well).
He is the star/host of Easton Bowhunting, which primarily features him hunting with recurves.
He's also one of a very select few who has taken a head of every species of North American big game with recurve.
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He's also one of a very select few who has taken a head of every species of North American big game with recurve. [/QB]
Actually he is one of 2 people in the world to ever complete the North American Traditional Slam!!! It is Fred Eichler, and I beleive Fred Bear? But that is just my guess???
Anybody know what channel it was on?
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I think there was another guy who completed his Slam about the same time as Fred E. I don't know if Papa Bear did it or not.
Easton Bowhunting TV is on the Outdoor Channel...
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O so the outdoor channel has started the next season. I just got done watching a season, and didnt see that one, so you guys must be ahead of the sportsmans channel? It is on there too, but my DVR didnt record it so I guess it wasnt on there!
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Please read with soft eyes - I am not be critical just observant ok....Not trying to start a fight or take away from anyones abilities here...just my thoughts..
Tradbow - don't get me wrong I wasn't knocking him...now was he specifically aiming for a heart shot...hmm I dunno...never saw it...don't really care. You don't have to hit a heart to take an animal do you.
I saw a shot he took on an groper in a DVD (i bought them all) and it was a questionable angle (pretty severe) but it worked out great....now if it hadn't worked out would that shot be in the video...hmmm dunno.
Then his wife took one and it wasn't very good either, but it worked out and it was her first groper which was great and fun to watch her reactions...great video...but again the shot wasn't the best...but it worked out.
I have taken animals that weren't pretty either, but I don't think if I had videos of them I would want to show those ones. I would show the ones that make ppl go WOW....just makes good sense is all.
Blind hunting and stand hunting is pretty much known distances too...another advantage...when you are roaming around you don't know yardage unless you use electonic gear to tell you the exact range.
He seems to shoot unknown yardage real well, but again he practices more than the average fella too so it makes sense that he should be able too.
Kudos there too
CHRIS: - Grand Slam
Most of us could probably do the grand slam too if we had the money and the time to do it. It takes some time to do because of seasons tags availability etc, but it's doable,
AGAIN not knocking him...he's kinda blessed I think to be able to do what he does and that's great and most of us are envious (I am).
Anytime I see video hunting shows though I always have a part of me inside that is saying - they need to get a video out to please sponsors and pay the bills.
They need to show animals being harvested...bottom line. So how many shots are taken that are left on the cutting floor..I love his bloopers
I think he is an ethical hunter..but I guided for a fella in saskatewan for spring bears. It was all baiting and they were filmed. Many of the hunts they used for advertizing.
I was there for many of the harvests over two years and some weren't pretty and some we never recovered....and they never made the video's or bloopers.
Jer Bear
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Interesting thing about Fred is that he gets just as excited about shooting a cow elk or a doe as he does a big buck .... I enjoy his shows and he is not afraid to show himself missing a shot, but the guy can shoot.
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Originally posted by Chris Shelton:
He's also one of a very select few who has taken a head of every species of North American big game with recurve. [/b]
Actually he is one of 2 people in the world to ever complete the North American Traditional Slam!!! It is Fred Eichler, and I beleive Fred Bear? But that is just my guess???
Anybody know what channel it was on? [/QB]
Rick Duggan was the first to take all 28 with traditional archery tackle. Fred got his 28th species very shortly afterwards. When P&Y added the 29th species, Tule elk, Fred then became the first to take all 29 with a stickbow.
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I just got done talking to Fred and he said that he uses standard inserts and not brass.
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That was a great shot on that couse deer.Then later I watched the Nuge gut shoot a california blacktail deer and shot him in ass in follow up shot.Then he killed a monster blacktail with another ass shot.
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I meant it as a compliment Jerry. If you consider a 35 yard shot like that with a recurve a gimme, you are a damned sight better at this than I!
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Originally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
Rick Duggan was the first to take all 28 with traditional archery tackle. Fred got his 28th species very shortly afterwards. When P&Y added the 29th species, Tule elk, Fred then became the first to take all 29 with a stickbow.
O okay, cool. I had no idea, that was just my guess.
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Originally posted by Chris Shelton:
He's also one of a very select few who has taken a head of every species of North American big game with recurve. [/b]
Actually he is one of 2 people in the world to ever complete the North American Traditional Slam!!! It is Fred Eichler, and I beleive Fred Bear? But that is just my guess???
Anybody know what channel it was on? [/QB]
There are a few actually... I know Fred Eichler is the only one to do it with a recurve, but Chuck Adams was the first to do it with a compound bow. Easton named its XX78 "SuperSlam" arrow after Adams' accomplishment.
I think we all daydream about hunting professionally... and certainly I WISH I had the resources to even consider doing a superslam! Heck, I was toying with the idea of trying for the turkey slam and even that seems a stretch for my pocket... going to have to settle for the game of New England, and specifically CT! I'm just hoping the DEP opens a bear season for us soon :pray:
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Originally posted by Jerry Wald:
CHRIS: - Grand Slam
Most of us could probably do the grand slam too if we had the money and the time to do it. It takes some time to do because of seasons tags availability etc, but it's doable,
O I know that it is definatly a costly thing! Fred himself said he probably wouldnt have been able to do it if he were not a outfitter. Because he traded hunts with other outfitters!
Plus I left out a very important detail!!! There are only two people to accomplish this great feat, and the third one is one the way . . . :bigsmyl: ME :biglaugh: , lol. I wish.
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I forgot to ask him in my email, but does anyone know what kind of rest he uses on his Dorado? Haven't got a close enough look to tell the times he's had it on TV...
Heck, I won't even be able to accomplish the Trad Gang Not-So-Super Slam, let alone the official one! :D
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Originally posted by mrpenguin:
There are a few actually... I know Fred Eichler is the only one to do it with a recurve, but Chuck Adams was the first to do it with a compound bow. Easton named its XX78 "SuperSlam" arrow after Adams' accomplishment.
I think we all daydream about hunting professionally... and certainly I WISH I had the resources to even consider doing a superslam! Heck, I was toying with the idea of trying for the turkey slam and even that seems a stretch for my pocket... going to have to settle for the game of New England, and specifically CT! I'm just hoping the DEP opens a bear season for us soon :pray:
Right Chuck is the first of 9 to accomplish the super slam, but we are talking about the TRADITIONAL slam :) , tad difference. The guy that is the poster boy for gander mountian did it too I think. There are a few.
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OHH!!
And Fred is an amazing shot with a recurve. I've watched all 4 season of Easton Bowhunting multiple times and the shots he makes are pretty impressive... but he, too, misses ;)
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Right, Chris, got ya!
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everyone misses, a fellow did a article in Traditional bowhunter about it, big names like Mr Don tomas, Tj, Glen St Charles ect. They had some good stories about those fine misses too. I read most of Fred Bears bio, and even he missed!!! So I am not that worried about it. I miss all the time, but only missed once at big game . . . nock on wood!
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How about those New Orleans Saints?!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who Dat!!!!!
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No tradbow a 35 yard shot is not a gimme...but I would bet dollars to donuts that if you shot at a rabitt sized target or fox target (depending on your eyesight of course) at ten yards then 15 yards then 17 yards and then 20 yards and do increments like 3 yards (over time) you would be surprised that your mind would figure it out.
I remember a huge 4x4 muley buck I missed once. He was 20 yards max (or so i thought) because his body size was so big and the target I was using WASN'T it was a smaller deer target.
So what your mind calculates (to me anyway) is size and distance of previuos input.
So I shot - well I was WAY LOW - he was just under 30 paces, but because he was SO BIG he looked closer.
the arrow hit harmlessly short and he bounced away.
Jer
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Originally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
Originally posted by Chris Shelton:
He's also one of a very select few who has taken a head of every species of North American big game with recurve. [/b]
Actually he is one of 2 people in the world to ever complete the North American Traditional Slam!!! It is Fred Eichler, and I beleive Fred Bear? But that is just my guess???
Anybody know what channel it was on? [/b]
Rick Duggan was the first to take all 28 with traditional archery tackle. Fred got his 28th species very shortly afterwards. When P&Y added the 29th species, Tule elk, Fred then became the first to take all 29 with a stickbow. [/QB]
I checked up on this... Duggin was the first and I stand corrected...
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Originally posted by Jerry Wald:
I remember a huge 4x4 muley buck I missed once. He was 20 yards max (or so i thought) because his body size was so big and the target I was using WASN'T it was a smaller deer target.
That is why you should have a set up like me, where I have a tiny riverbottom 3d, and then a glen del full rut, except the little deer has finally died, and I need to either patch the foam somehow or buy a new body! So I should be good from everything to a coues and fliped to a moose :biglaugh:
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Except for when, "Mr. Yips" shows his ugly face (8^).
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A little bird told me Fred is heading down under for a hunt soon enough...
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I just wish I still had hair like him!
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He is one of my favorites.
I wish I could make a 35 yrd shot. :(
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amicus, there is absolutely no reason that you can't learn to hit very well at 35 yards. When we shot field rounds, the 35 yard target was one of my favorites. You need to get out to a range that has targets past 30 yards, and shoot to find your point-on (a point at which your arrow point is on the center of the target at full draw, and hits that spot) Mine is between 52 and 58 yards...give or take, and depending on bow.
Even if you are a so-called instinctive shooter, you will find yourself shooting better as you develop longer range skills. Form is everything, and follow-through is key on every shot (keeping the bow arm in position until the arrow hits the target).
That said, most shots are much closer, and deer shouldn't be quartering to you when you shoot. Just sayin'. 8^).
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I think watching terry shoot in his videos are amazing...all different body angles and those arrows are grouped...well better than most I would say.
But I am sure he practices all the time and if that shot came up in a real situation I am sure he wouldn't hesitate to take it.....maybe I am wrong...but don't think so.
jer
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I dont know guys I shoot often, almost every other day in the summer. And I wouldnt hesitate to take that shot . . . IF I was sure I could make it. My good buddy, passes on a shot that I would have taken in a heart beat. And do I blame him? No because he saw things differntly. If you really think about it, what is 35 yards? I can almost spit that far, lol. But I definatly agree with George, if you practice past your maximum range you will find that your maximum will more comforatable!
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Quartering toward? No shot.
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I practice out to 40yds almost everyday and wouldnt hesitate to take a 35yd shot at anytime.
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I'm a Fred fan. He's got one of the best shows out there, and he seems to be a great sport. I like his attitude as well. I wonder if he needs a co-host???
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Fred is a very capable archer no doubt!
He has the energy and love of this addiction that makes me believe that he actually gives a rats rear end about hunting and not just the industry.
He is one of few I watch regularly. Ticked me off when they changed the name from "Easton bowhunting tv" to "bowhunting tv" because my dvr missed it for months.
A good buddy of mine was on the recent antelope hunt, he was the goofy joker holding the caped out skull next to Fred at the end of the show.
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Fred's on twice a week. I know for sure this week he was on tuesday at 4:30 est. I believe he's on the outdoor channel. The best one I saw was when the sow grizzly charged the canoe him and his guide were in. The guide fired a pistol shot in front of the bear to turn her. She was super close.
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One thing I got of the MBB video is that Fred claims to never use field points. He does all of his practice with broadheads. Might contribute to his confidence/ability to take a 35 yard shot at live game. Never seen his TV show - don't get cable, but did enjoy his segment in MBB.
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If my wife was involved with Muzzy and I was on their pro staff, I would just shoot Muzzy broadheads too!
To the folks who are saying "no big deal" about this shot, I wonder how many could make it, particularly with a world class trophy buck as the target?
Let's remove the big buck from the picture. Wonder how many could make it stone cold with the first shot, or would maybe need a couple 2-3 to get on target?
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All I know is He is, by far, one of the most genuine on TV to watch. Any of his shows are first class. He has a passion for everything he does and lives it to the max. Gotta respect that. Awesome shot too!!
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I'm surprised to read he only shoots 54#... That dude got some guns on him!
Another point for shooting only enough weight for what is needed and see what accuracy can result.
Course, my arthritic ole butt can't handle 54# anymore which is why my Morrison recurve limbs are for sale. I'm sure Fred could handle a lot more weight and for the breadth of game he hunts, that says something... don't need high draw weight to 'git er done'. :)
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trabow - devils advocate here..tee hee..do you think he practiced a few shots from the blind before the hunt...again I didn't see the shot so i could have my head up my butt.
I would not get in a setup situation (not roving) and not practice shots from there all around me where an animal could appear so I was confident enough to take a shot.
Maybe that's just me, but I don't think so.
Again I am not taking away from the shot...but was it the only one he took or was it the one that hit perfectly that they chose to air.
Again I don't know him - I do know about sponsors and I do know about results and expectaions for moneys given.
I saw the shot Fred bear took on a running sheep where he half drew on him and got him..AWESOME shot...but if he had missed would it be on the video....hmmm
I saw HH shoot a hawk in a tree...if he would have missed would it be on the video...hmm
Now I think I will stay quiet on this subject before every one thinks I hate Fred or I am just an a$$hole.
Hoepfully you realize I am neither.
Jer Bear
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I wonder if you are allowed to shoot broadheads in ASA? I know you can not in IBO. I bet if you shoot with him he is deadly on other arrows with broadheads!
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If you were to watch Freds shows you would see quite a few that he doesn't get a shot in each season. Or you see his misses, he is very honest in what he shows and one of the reasons many like myself prefer his show over all the rest and would share a camp with him anytime.
A quartering to shot is just a backward quartering away shot.
On steeper quartering away shots the rear leg poses more of an issue, in my opinion than the front shoulder does on a quartering to shot with the same relative angle to the vitals.
My issue with a quartering to shot is more to do with the animal sensing something or not.
To each his own.
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yEP, HE SHOOTS 54# AT HIS DRAW!!!!
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New guy here but I feel compelled to post on this topic. Anyone questioning Fred's ethics is way off base. In fact, I consider them fightin' words. You weren't there. You don't know what he is capable of either. I have shot side by side with the man under a little friendly competition. I consider myself to be an excellent shot and guess what, he almost beat me, and I was shooting a COMPOUND!. I have never seen a better trad shot than Fred. He is capable of that shot and then some. Furthermore, he wouldn't take any shot he didn't know he could make. Lastly, he smoked that coues perfectly, so if he isn't here to tell the naysayers to pound sand, I'll do it. SCOREBOARD! More importantly, Fred is a hell of a good guy. We need more people like him in our industry. Heck, we need more people like him in our country!
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Got an email back from Fred this morning. Palmer or Hoyt recurve 54# at his 30.5" draw, Axis 400's, 4" feathers, standard alum inserts, Muzzy Phantom 125s. My guess of an arrow of about 500 grains was right on the money. Advised he uses this set up on every critter he hunted/hunts in NA.
The most successful traditional bowwhunter of our times does nothing special. No EFOC, extra weight, or special single bevel broadheads.. Just a meat & potatoes, relatively inexpensive, everyday Joe setup, in the hands of an extremely capable hunter/archer....
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Well Doc never said we HAD to use high FOC, or ultra heavy arrows, he just advises it. Bowhunters for years have been using set ups like that. I think it is interesting though, because his FOC is probably pretty low??? With the added weight of the wrap in the back!
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"The most successful traditional bowwhunter of our times does nothing special. No EFOC, extra weight, or special single bevel broadheads.. Just a meat & potatoes, relatively inexpensive, everyday Joe setup, in the hands of an extremely capable hunter/archer...." ;)
Fred is the one in the spotlight right now, but there are a lot of very successful bowhunters nowadays, who don't use any special, EFOC, buildup.
Chris says, "his front of center is pretty low?"
Compared to whose rules? 8^))))))))). His front of center is what nearly all bowhunters used for decades, and have done very well. Better than very well. :saywhat:
In the 1960's we understood mass, perfect arrow flight, and sharp broadheads....and the ability to hit the right spot. That formula still does the job on any game you will ever hunt....including very large stuff. Of course Dr. Ashby's study has merit and is still a work in progress. There is more than one way of doing things; however, one does not negate the value of the other.....
;) :coffee:
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Originally posted by NDTerminator:
Got an email back from Fred this morning. Palmer or Hoyt recurve 54# at his 30.5" draw, Axis 400's, 4" feathers, standard alum inserts, Muzzy Phantom 125s. My guess of an arrow of about 500 grains was right on the money. Advised he uses this set up on every critter he hunted/hunts in NA.
The most successful traditional bowwhunter of our times does nothing special. No EFOC, extra weight, or special single bevel broadheads.. Just a meat & potatoes, relatively inexpensive, everyday Joe setup, in the hands of an extremely capable hunter/archer....
This just reminds me that the tackle is only a part of the equation and that sometimes I get FAR to wrapped up in my gear when I just need to go shoot and have a good time!
That said I DO find I shoot better with an EFOC tuned arrow... but that's what works for me :thumbsup:
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George, I didn't mean to imply that a 35 yrd shot was impossible. At my skill level I would not feel comfortable with that shot. In all honesty, It doesent mean I would not have taken the shot.
Freds show is the only show that I record. Thats because I like him and have a great deal of respect for him. Most of the other shows are filled with fake drama and what the sponsers feel is important, which is $$$$$$.
Just my .02.
Gilbert
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Originally posted by George D. Stout:
Chris says, "his front of center is pretty low?"
Compared to whose rules? 8^))))))))). His front of center is what nearly all bowhunters used for decades, and have done very well. Better than very well. :saywhat:
well compared to the recent studies about EFOC it is low. However it is not low compared to the set up used the past decades as you have already said. The set up I used on my first deer was a 40# recurve, a easton explorer carbon shaft, approximatly 390 total grains :eek: , and the if that were a bad shot I would have been screwed. Fortunatly it was a absolutely perfect shot and the buck ran 80 yards down the mountain and dropped.
docs studies are for us humans who could possibly put in a bad shot. They are by no means to make up for terrible shooting, but if you have a good FOC set up, and you screw up and all of us are human. The FOC should help humanely harvest your quarry.
Anyway, basically my statement was saying that he could add brass inserts and easily double his FOC! But from watching Fred, he seems like a "if it aint broke dont fix it" kinda guy, and obviously his set up is workin just fine. I am a "it can always be improved" kinda guy, so I am always looking to make my mouse trap better :archer:
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I'm going to be trying some 100 grain brass inserts in my CXTH's for the sole reason it should allow me to use 100 grain points and still get in the 520 grain range with the spine I need. 100 grain points means a huge selection of readily available fixed & replaceable blade broadheads, a good number of which I have on hand...
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I've used the brass inserts and lighter broadheads,but went back to using heavy heads and aluminum inserts just for durability of the heavier broadheads. Most 100 gain heads are weak.
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ND that is why I went the brass route, but I would imagine that Fred with his 30" draw doesnt have to worry about that, a fellow like you or I that wants there arrows cut to length(29.5), needs some way to keep there total mass up, and I am very partial to the WIDE selection of 100 grain broadheads!
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Originally posted by George D. Stout:
"The most successful traditional bowwhunter of our times does nothing special. No EFOC, extra weight, or special single bevel broadheads.. Just a meat & potatoes, relatively inexpensive, everyday Joe setup, in the hands of an extremely capable hunter/archer...." ;)
Fred is the one in the spotlight right now, but there are a lot of very successful bowhunters nowadays, who don't use any special, EFOC, buildup.
Chris says, "his front of center is pretty low?"
Compared to whose rules? 8^))))))))). His front of center is what nearly all bowhunters used for decades, and have done very well. Better than very well. :saywhat:
In the 1960's we understood mass, perfect arrow flight, and sharp broadheads....and the ability to hit the right spot. That formula still does the job on any game you will ever hunt....including very large stuff.
:clapper:
It's unfortunate that folks have to point out that what's worked for decades still works today...as if we actually forgot what it takes to kill an animal.
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Originally posted by Chris Shelton:
ND that is why I went the brass route, but I would imagine that Fred with his 30" draw doesnt have to worry about that, a fellow like you or I that wants there arrows cut to length(29.5), needs some way to keep there total mass up, and I am very partial to the WIDE selection of 100 grain broadheads!
Damn, great minds DO think alike... :campfire:
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yes indeed. BTW 100 grains of brass up front- Defiantly worth it!!! went from my LOW, low arrow weight of 347 grains total to 447, and 18.64% FOC, absolutely no difference in arrow flight. The only difference was that obviously the arrow shot a ting slower. But it only took me like 4 shots to readjust!
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Originally posted by Chris Shelton:
yes indeed. BTW 100 grains of brass up front- Defiantly worth it!!! went from my LOW, low arrow weight of 347 grains total to 447, and 18.64% FOC, absolutely no difference in arrow flight. The only difference was that obviously the arrow shot a ting slower. But it only took me like 4 shots to readjust!
You added 100 grains to the front of an arrow and saw "absolutely no difference in arrow flight?" Not to sidetrack this discussion, but did you bare shaft tune those arrows? You can't just add 100 grains to the front of an arrow shaft and not change the dynamic spine.
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Originally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
Originally posted by George D. Stout:
"The most successful traditional bowwhunter of our times does nothing special. No EFOC, extra weight, or special single bevel broadheads.. Just a meat & potatoes, relatively inexpensive, everyday Joe setup, in the hands of an extremely capable hunter/archer...." ;)
Fred is the one in the spotlight right now, but there are a lot of very successful bowhunters nowadays, who don't use any special, EFOC, buildup.
Chris says, "his front of center is pretty low?"
Compared to whose rules? 8^))))))))). His front of center is what nearly all bowhunters used for decades, and have done very well. Better than very well. :saywhat:
In the 1960's we understood mass, perfect arrow flight, and sharp broadheads....and the ability to hit the right spot. That formula still does the job on any game you will ever hunt....including very large stuff.
:clapper:
It's unfortunate that folks have to point out that what's worked for decades still works today...as if we actually forgot what it takes to kill an animal. [/b]
Something anyone who wields a recurve or longbow should understand very well...
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Originally posted by George D. Stout:
"The most successful traditional bowwhunter of our times does nothing special. No EFOC, extra weight, or special single bevel broadheads.. Just a meat & potatoes, relatively inexpensive, everyday Joe setup, in the hands of an extremely capable hunter/archer...."
I don't know about that. I would think that any succesful traditional bowhunter would have tinkered with his set up to get the best arrow flight he could possible get with what ever materials and knowledge was available at that time. Its not like they just stopped at wally world and picked up a bunch of .25 arrows and started hitting bulleyes at 50 yrds. I just don't see that.
A lot people think that our ancesters just pick up any ole stick and used it as an arrow or any old rock and made a broadhead. I would imagine that after much trial and error they found out what works best with what materials they had at that time, as well. In my opinon this is just commen sense.
Gilbert
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Fred is heck of a hunter, I enjoyed his interview in Masters of Barebow 2 he keeps things simple thats the way it should be,
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I'm glad Fred is in our sport and is it well.
Sad this thread about the man had to de-rail into another science project argument. :rolleyes: