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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: gudspelr on March 18, 2010, 05:26:00 AM
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I know a lot of people have opinions on how much camo hunting gear actually helps a hunter and was hoping to get some from you all. I'm hopefully going to be bow hunting for the first time this fall (with a bow I'm getting ready to make) and already own a few pairs of camo pants/shirts, etc.
I've read where some really like the 3D type suits (ASAT, for example). Some wear camo hoods/face covers and gloves, as well. Do you all see that much gear as a necessity while bowhunting? I've never hunted in a tree stand and my hunting life will remain on the ground for the forseeable future. What are your opinions for a guy like me? I wouldn't say I'm fantastic at stalking super close to game-frankly, I've never been required to with a rifle... Does the camo aid the hunter that much more when trying to get closer?
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts.
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Camo is only effective when sitting still. Critters will see movement regardless of the super camo job.
Move VERY methodically and stop a lot to look around.
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The last few years I have covered up my face more then ever.I think it really helped.I had a few deer look up at me and never spooked.I mix and match all kind of camo pants and shirts.Kip
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Deer pick out faces and eyes on predators immediately. Keeping your skin tone covered and eyes averted from deer helps a lot. Camo is one piece of the picture and a small piece. Lots of hunters kill animals in natural tone wool clothes, and I know some who hunt in blue jeans and a t shirt and kill animals.
I own camoflauge, ghillie and shaggie suits, and natural color wools. I hunt each of them for set environments and temperatures during hunting season. The only one that really gives me an advantage is the ghillie / shaggy suit. Deer will look right thru you when you wear one.
Motion is instantly picked up in any other camo. They see it in the shaggy too but often move closer trying to figure out what is moving.
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Name brand camo is made to catch your $$$$. Natural colors (in solids or plaids) are just as good. I don't worry about covering my face and hands (unless its REAL cold) and I depend on situating my treestands correctly to give me the cover I need. You hang your stand on a telephone pole 20 feet from the deer trail and your gonna get busted - I don't care WHO'S name is on your shirt.
Shot these guys at 10 yds, 7 yds, and 6 yds in the last 2 years wearing what I have on in the pics. But of course if it makes you feel better camo up all you want - it won't bother the deer!
R
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/IndianaBuck08.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/08IowaBuck2cropped.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/Nov112009IN1.jpg)
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Here is my take on camo. We need to get close to our quarry and there is no doubt you can kill things wearing blaze orange coveralls. But I'm hunting mature whitetail and if camo gives me an advantage and I believe it does, I'm definitely using it. Covering your face is a good idea. I can't shoot with a mask of any kind so I use face paint if after a buck. Covering your hands is also critical as that is the part of the your body that does most the moving at the shot.
If you are ground hunting I strongly suggest the leafy flage jacket and pants. What's great about them is that it is all the camo you will ever need to buy. The leafy camo pieces are usually sewn onto a lightweight mess which is very breathable and cool. Whatever clothes you wear under it can be any weight and the color makes no difference. When its hot in the early season I wear my leafy jacket and pants over pair of shorts and a tee shirt. When the season gets colder you can throw them over your heavier clothes.
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I just started hunting in October and was in your shoes. I bought camo (the cheapest I could) headnet and the whole smear. I ended up getting my deer with a plaid hunting shirt from Goodwill.
If you hunt on the ground, focus more on the following:
1) Cover your face and hands. Hats and gloves DO help to shield your eyes and prevent the sun from reflecting off your skin.
2) Pick a spot that hides your outline. Focus on what is behind you. It doesn't need to be in front of you.
3) Choose a spot with options that enables you to shift into a shooting position.
You would think that you can't move with a deer close by, but you can if you pay attention to what it is doing and look for opportunities.
I shifted twice to shoot my doe - from seated to a knee, then from knee to a crouch - and I was in the middle of a large group of deer. I also drew on a pair of deer earlier in the season and was actually able to transition from a seated ground blind to standing in front of a pine tree before I did it AND I was wearing red and black plaid.
They get preoccupied just like we do and they can't make you out as easy as you think. Its the scent that kills you.
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High dollar camo is overrated in my opinion. I do feel it is important to cover the face with some kind of outline breakup I use plain old charcoal. It is much more important to use the wind.
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A bandana pulled up over your nose works fine too. I have one of those $8 fleece hoodie hats that has the optional face mask built in. I just pull the hoodie part down and the face mask stays up fine.
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I shoot everything spot and stalk and one of the things that helps is some kind of junk in your hat to break up the round dome look we have. Never use face coverings. Doesn't seem to matter. I killed a nice muley last year while wearing levis. Its all about watching the eyes. If you can see their eyes, they will catch you moving.
If you hunt from trees, you can wear anything you want. Blaze orange camo is great.
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If you are hunting the ground, move as little as possible. Hunt the wind as much as possible. I shot a deer shortly after taking this picture.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/jjeffer/stillwaiting.jpg)
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I do think they can notice your face, if you are looking directly at them. I'm fairly certain my white beard attracts their attention. I normally do something to break up my face if I'm on the ground. In a tree, I don't bother.
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I my opinion it's about breaking up your outline and watching your movement and movement the most important. Plaid on the old flanel shirt is camo just not marketed as. I killed my frist elk in a old faded camo top,purple shorts and flip flops. I was checking a water hole for tracks midday when they came in,just made like a tree in the wide open and full draw. A friend I hunt with thought for years that the proper attire was blue jeans and a white shirt when hunting because thats how his older bothers had always done it. I do use camo and will to some degree always but it's not necessary.
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Thanks for all of your opinions-I greatly appreciate them. I'm not one that has a lot of money to spend on the high dollar camo, so it's reassuring to hear I don't necessarily have to get it to be successful. I'm pretty anxious for this season-never hunted the rut before and can't wait to see it! Thanks again
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IMHO, texture is as important as color or camo pattern.
But, I'm not the worlds most successful deer hunter, either.
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Depends where and how you're hunting. If hunting larger private farms with light pressure, you can get away with a lot. If hunting natural on the ground in area's with heavy to extreme hunting pressure, meaning 20 plus archers per sq mile, I'd suggest you do everything possible.
I've hunted lightly pressured farms in Illinois where jeans and a brown shirt would have been fine for decent bucks. On the other end of the spectrum, in some pounded area's of Michigan, fawns will spook unless your face is camo'd up and you're head to toe camo.
I remember pulling a stalk on an Illinois buck eating in a corn field and thinking "this would never happen in my area of Michigan". Deer bust out of a field 500 yards away, like you shot at them with cannons, in my local Michigan area.
Hunting pressure will determine many aspects of "how to do" things.
Seeing you're from out west, pressure like I'm talking about won't be a factor because it doesn't exist.
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Depends where and how you're hunting. If hunting larger private farms with light pressure, you can get away with a lot. If hunting natural on the ground in area's with heavy to extreme hunting pressure, meaning 20 plus archers per sq mile, I'd suggest you do everything possible.
Excellent point.
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What has been said above is just about it. But directed towards the plaid junkies. If you are wearing a solid grey pair of pants, moving through the timber, with a plaid top, that is still a big chunk of grey that the deer will see.
Think of it this way, try moving a peice of grey paper behind a screen. You can definatly tell the paper from the screen right? Now move a peice of screen behind the screen, what do you see? Just screen, so if you wear something that looks like a treebranch, and you move slowly, and stop now and then. Chances are they will think you are a treebranch. Anyway that is just how I look at it. Then come gun season I have to stick that bright orange hat on my head. I am still not bought on this "deer see shades of grey bull", that is just something someone made up back in the day to get hunters to wear orange, lol
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Movement is what busts you. H
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No camo for me. Plaid pullover and pants and I am ready for anything. Sitting still and downwind is more important than any camo.
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Enjoy a good bottle of wine the night before your hunt. Save the cork. Burn the end of it with a lighter, apply the coal to your face. Cheapest face "outline break-up" you can buy (unless you like REALLY good wine...)
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If you can break up your outline,and use drab colors, keep it cheep and simple.The most expensive camo can't replace poor hunting skills.IMO
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There is much more to it than is being discussed here.
There are no hard fast rules. I have had deer walk right up to me while wearing a ghillie suit, I have also had them walk right past me while I was leaning against a tree with blue jeans and a tan short sleeve.
Movement they will catch. Scent they will catch. The rest. . well it absolutely . . depends.
Part of what is happening with a lot of folks is the ideal that they don't need to do all those things, a technical rebellion if you will.
I don't want to have to purchase a $1,500 bow, I don't need $120/dz arrow shafts and $30 a pop broadheads. I don't need fart proof clothing, or magnetic aura proof clothing or all of that.
A Fred Bear hat, a plaid shirt, a pair of soft pants and let me have my time in the woods.
I also don't NEED to kill something. Oh I want to. . . really. But if I don't get the opportunity I'm not gonna cry.
I'm also not gonna have to run out and buy more technology so I can get closer no matter the wind and shoot farther to reach out so that big one can't get away, etc etc.
There is a line in the sand that each of us draws. Each does this based upon their needs, their wants, and some peer pressure, but all these things at THAT time. THAT time changes all the time with new experiences, with age, with increased skills or abilities.
Yeah.. camo works. Yeah Ghillies REALLY work (for now). Those new (not) mirror blinds that reflect what is around you will probably work. A well tuned compound with pins out to 80 yards will work, as will a scoped .270.
In the end. . . you will decide what is right for you, and what is enough.
ChuckC
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I've had deer practically kiss me while wearing my "Pumpkin Suit" Many times over.
I second what every one else says Movement and wind are more critical.
Break up your outline as much as possible.
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Wearing gray and white in deer season, even bow season, is NOT a good idea. Deer are gray and white. Some hunters are stupid, too inexperienced, or too eager. And people DO get shot with arrows. You never know for sure who's out there, and what state of mind they're in.
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Movement is what gets you . If your like me and have bright pink face and hands it helps to cover them up.Camo plaid it all works.
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Any given deer, at any given time, can be very jumpy, relaxed, highly educated, or dumb. You just never know what's gonna happen if they see you.
I'd like to have a good set of Predator, ASAT, or Sitka, but until I can afford it I'll just keep killing deer in my Carhart's and flannel.
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Ghillie + Public Hunting Land = Natural Selection. H
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Every single thing you take with you into the woods can reduce your odds of going undetected when hunting wild game, including your camo.
One can get very close to wild game wearing nothing but a loin cloth with one's exposed skin covered in soot and mud. Anything else can add bulk, can reduce mobility, can hold scent, can make noise, can catch and snag, etc. Whatever else you take needs to have added value and benefit greater than that of its liability. As an example, carrying and maneuvering a weapon reduces your chances of going undetected, but you must have a weapon to cleanly dispatch the game.
Everything you wear and carry will have a give and take as to benefit vs liability. This includes the wearing of excessive camo beyond that of what it takes to merely break up your outline and to keep you comfortable. Bulky ghillies and leafy suits as an example may very well fit the bill for a dedicated sniper 200 to 300 meters away from the intended target, but they may prove an absolute disaster for someone trying to move through the woods while within 50yards of wild game as they can hinder movement, snag, and they are a scent sponge. Having super sharp contrasting camo that clearly breaks up your outline while motionless, may also be a complete disaster during movement as the sharp contrast is easily spotted while moving. Some light and comfortable wonder synthetics may prove a greater liability in low light due to the presence of UV. The list goes on and on. You should consider this when selecting your gear to include camo if your decisions are based upon more than hype and a placebo effect.
It is difficult to best natural materials when it comes to blending into nature while remaining silent and comfortable with reduced scent. I think it incredible how well an animal of solid bland color can nearly disappear when within stone throwing distance. I also think it incredible how well such animals can easily follow and find each other over great distances by using their sense of smell. This makes it clear to me that a hunters proper use of the sun, winds, and thermals in combination with a well disciplined use of minimal movement trumps that of any and every camo pattern ever developed by modern man to be sold through Cabelas. This includes when hunting large mature whitetail bucks.
Best:)
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Just wear whatever makes you feel sneaky and sit still ( or move very very carefully ).
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I like the colors gray, olive and dark brown and buy polar fleeces and wool pants and shirts when I find them on sale. I like the wool because of the noise factor, you can rub a tree or have brush hit you and it doesn't make any sounds.
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I quit wearing "camo" a couple years ago. I really got tired of seeing the stuff, trucks, flashlights, boots, ect. That camo stuff is way too spendy for me also. The patterns fade out way faster than any of my plaid shirts.
I do most of my hunting spot and stalk. My success rate has not gone down since I started wearing Carharts and plaids. The landowners that allow me to hunt say that I look presentable now.
I think it's funny when a guy wears full camo in a blind. What's the point?
Move very slow and keep the wind in your face.
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I was never a camo fanatic but the older I get, the less important camo is to me. My harvest rate hasn't declined any either through the years.
I have nothing against camo, and wear it (getting harder to buy certain items not camo) along with plaids, and solid earth tone hunting clothing I happen to have. Material is much more important to me than color.
I have to admit though that I'm not crazy about looking like I just stepped out of a catalogue or a T.V. hunting show. That I try to avoid at all cost!
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Interesting, read a chapter in a book about this recently. Seems like it's divided. Me personally, hunting in the rifle season, I'm stuck with orange, and have been in bow range. I don't see a problem if you do or if you don't. But I would advise that you go with what makes you confident. If wearing camo from head to toe makes it so you believe that you can get close to a deer, than wear it by all means. If you can go out in levis, a t shirt, and a blaze orange vest (my general hunting attire) and believe that you can get close to a deer, than that's all you need. To me, a lot of it is confidence in yourself.
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My experience is that camo works and good camo matched to the surroundings works very well. The effect is most noticeable when hunting deer that are hunted regularly or with turkeys who have incredible eyesight and see in color. Plaids can be a form of camo too, but they are often not as effective as something with more contrast and a less structured pattern. Movement and smell are definitely the two things that will give us away first, but that does not mean camo doesn't work. If you want to see how nature protects animals, look at the natural camo patterns on many animals. Fawns are better camouflaged that adult deer because the adults have better senses and can run and jump faster to escape. Leopards have spots to disguise them when they are stalking prey. Same with bobcats and various other cat species. Zebra, kudu, and other prey animals have striped coats. Fish and birds are often camouflaged with intricate patterns. Even many insects and reptiles are camouflaged. I can see a deer fairly easily in the woods, but a bobcat is far more difficult to spot.
I am all for those who choose not to use camo, but that does not diminish its effectiveness in the proper situations. I do agree that the use of camo does not excuse a hunter from exercising good hunting skills if he expects to be able to arrow a deer with traditional archery equipment.
Allan
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Again, it all depends on hunting pressure. If out west, I think you could sometimes wear solid hot pink and kill mature animals. When in B.C. and Alberta, we all wore bluejeans and colored T shirts. The moose and elk out there couldn't have cared less.
But extremely pressured whitetails in select area's of select states...it's night and day.
Of course movement is very important, but in heavy pressured area's, you often get busted even if you don't twitch a hair and the wind is 100% perfect, but your pattern doesn't match the background.
Michigan has over 300,000 bowhunters. And if you're in an area where they are centered, you'll never understand that kind of pressure until you see it for yourself.
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Keep in mind that many of the natural "camo" patterns that have evolved on wild prey animals is not that of something to hide the animal from detection, but it is a natural result of what makes it difficult for a predator to single out a specific animal from the herd. Also many high contrast natural patterns on young is a natural result of what is effective when the animal instinctively drops to the ground and remains absolutely motionless. High contrast of stripes on a zebra will greatly aid detection if that zebra is alone from the herd as it would stand out like a sore thumb. High contrast on young would also aid detection if the animal moved instead of remained motionless. Same goes for the reasoning and testing data that supported the military change to a digital camo pattern to reduce the chance of detection during movement.
A trained human will have a far easier time spotting a hunter moving through natural surrounds wearing a high contrast pattern such as ASAT in comparision to a lower contrast of digital patterns. The characteristics that makes it difficult to pick out ASAT when motionless gives an easily referenced point of focus during times of movement. Animals through their very survival in nature have developed a greater ability to detect such movement than that of the most highly trained human observer.
As noted previously, choose what gives you the greatest confidence. But, if your choice is to be based on more than hype and a placebo effect, take into consideration the realities of camo and weigh your choices to give you the biggest bang for the buck when it comes to your overall package as to comfort, mobility, quietness, reduced scent retention, the ability to blend, and the ability to mask well disciplined movement. If you scramble, have gear that allows you to scramble. If you bushwack, have gear that allows you to bushwack. If you need to maximize use of your natural 180degree field of vision, have gear that does not restrict your field of vision. Do not allow a particular marketed camo pattern trump all the other variables of the overall package.
Best:)
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You need about the same as a "DEER". You can't see them much when there still.
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in my experience its about breaking up your human form outline and minimizing or eliminating movement at the right time ungulates dontsee in true color like you or i so any thing that breaks up your form will work.I once read a study done by a guy who had black and white pics in various clothing to try and find the best cammo,and the one pic that changed my wat of thinkink was the bright red Hawian shirt with florecent flowers all over it,in his situation where he was,worked better than the cammo pants he was wearing (in the black and white photo)Do i wear cammo? yes, but i try and pick the best one to break up my outline for where im hunting
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Unless you are planning on shooting deer in the dark I would stay away from camo that looks dark. For deer I am not so sure how important exact camo patterns are, but turkeys they can see so good that they can tell if you are carrying a turkey tag in the fall. If you don't have a fall turkey tag camo is not required to get in easy bow range, in the spring nothing beats a blind or a gillie suit. I do have a constant fear of being too invisible to some of the young over anxious turkey gun hunters, they think everything they see is a turkey.
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I think there is a whole bunch of sillyness out there! Seriously!!
How many times in this thread have I read that, "I don't believe in camo. It's just a gimic. Give me a plaid shirt and soft green pants anyday."
Hell!! Camo ain't a brand! It's a technique and an attitude.
You won't shoot many animals standing in the middle of a clearing, in a white shirt, scratching your butt! Any improvement on that is a move toward camo.
I once read one of Howard Hill's "protoges" say that Howard didn't like camo. Yet he put a whole chapter about it in "Hunting the Hard Way". Sometime before Bill Jordan was born.
WHEW!!! Thanks! I needed that!! Now back to the discussion.
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Come on, Charlie! It's fashionable not to like camo! Don't go rainin' on the parade! :bigsmyl:
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:D
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i don't wear production/commercial camo, mainly because its expensive! also , if i match my check shirts or similiar to the surroundings i seem to do ok . also remember here in Oz there are no "bow only " seasons so i don't want to blend in too well!!!
however , by choosing my clothes carefully i am matching my clothes to the surroundings so in effect wearing "camo"..i ain't adverse to taking burnt cork to my face either.
so you'll never see me wearing commercial stuff but i'll ALWAYSchoose my clothes carefully!
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We can't out run em,we can't out see em,we can't out smell em, we can't out hear em,we can on occasion out maneuver and and out smart em,I do wear camo just for the CYA factor I just think the more you stack the odds in your favor(barring baiting) against an animal whose profession is surviving in the wild,the more you can concentrate on the task at hand,the deer might well see me but to my mind I will have done everything in my power to prevent from being seen if I'm camo'd and I get busted then bravo to the animal that busts me,for proving to me why they should be respected as a worthy quarry.About the camo I use most of it is not high dollar but seasonal left-overs,when I can get "spring gobbler camo" on sale in late summer I do and it's worn on the warmer days of deer season since it tends to be lighter weight.The same goes for the heavy or insulated stuff.Over-all thoughts,go with, go without, keep track of encounters and experiences and decide for yourself.Whatever you decide good luck in your first year.
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It doesn't even have to be what you'd commonly think of as brown/green camo. Blaze orange camo is great for later season/post leaf drop if in a tree and great for on the ground with snow.
Open patterns like ASAT or Predator, or whatever you make yourself that's similar not only break up outlines, they give the illusion of depth.
Plaid is just fine, but plaid will blob more than open patterns.
To be honest, I wish my family land wasn't in the heaviest pressured county in the state. My county has around 25,000 deer hunters in the DNR survey but is only 842 sq miles. That's 30 deer hunters per sq mile on average. Take away lakes and towns and it's 40 deer hunters per mile. You can certainly kill deer in plaid or a white T, but any decent buck that runs that gauntlet doesn't stick around if the least bit nervous. Even our jittery fawn look up! LOL
If the deer infront of you maybe already ran into 2 hunters before you, and saw them and spooked, you better not have any outline that blobs.
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I have to agree with Ryan R.His attire of Natural Colored plaids is really natural camo.
Dull colors and Plaids will do just fine!!
I own both camo and natural camo, but, I prefer the wools and naturals.
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Lots of patterns, including plaids and other other earth tone items can be very effective but the best "camo" is discipline - being still and hunting the wind.
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Wow-thanks everyone for giving your advice. I can't tell you all how appreciative I am that you're willing to share some of your hard-earned experiences with me. Great info and I'm certain I'll be using pieces of advice from many of you in the years to come.
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I'd make sure you appreciate what you have in Idaho.
We do have a ton of deer in Michigan. Too many in a lot of area's. But in many area's, dealing with other hunters is as much a part of the hunting strategy as trying to outsmart the deer.
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Here's my new camo for this year. I also have predator and natural gear. (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/MikeBurnsie_photos/100_5838.jpg)
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OK I've had my coffee. Is someone game ?
How about get a bunch of fabric that is printed with a corn color and design and drape it over you and the chair you are sitting in. Maybe even stake it out in TeePee fashion. Hole for your head and holes (w sleeves) for your arms.
Make yourself look like a huge pile of corn, or sugar beets, or brussels sprouts. Bow in hand, just waiting for the rascals to approach !
ChuckC
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Hey Mikeburns..nice shirt..may I ask whee you got that plaid?
Thanks
Mark
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Hey Mike, I really like that shirt, where did you get that?
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oops, I didn't noitce that hizzoner asked the same question. sorry.
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This is my favorite camo
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc214/amicuspaint/122609buck.jpg)
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Re-reading a book by one of "Hill's protege's", he stated that he never saw Hill in a "camoflage suit", and that Hill's choice of clothing was the plaids and greens of flannel or wool and brown or khaki pants. Now, camoflage suit and wearing plaid clothing in that 70's book is the same discussion that guys are having today. Both work well, but how do you want to look when wearing it? I prefer to look like a gentleman, not a military special ops movie character.
Gudspeir, you don't say what part of Idaho you're from....I'm from southern ID and we have lots of sagebrush that's only waist high in which to hunt...to camoflage myself, I wear plaids if I feel like it, or solids, jeans or khakis, wool or cotton. But if at all possible, I keep the sun at my back, the wind in my face, and always my feet on the ground. Camo doesn't help if I do the other things wrong.
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Jeremy,
Camo is anything that helps you blend in with your surroundings. It could be a plaid shirt, a handfull of leaves stuffed in your hat band or everything from page 50-100 from the Cabela's catalog. If you use it to hide from game, it is camo regardless of color, pattern or material.
You don't HAVE to have any extra clothes to hunt in. Your street clothes would work fine if they are comfortable and keep you warm/cool while outside. Seems to me staying warm would be the primary concern up your way. I would bet that there have been more deer killed in the last 100 years by folks wearing Carhartt coats or red and black Mackinaws than any other outerwear.
If you have a few extra bucks, I think a good pull-over facemask and a good pair of gloves in some type of camo pattern would help quite a bit. Covering your face and hands goes a long way toward getting close enough to game to get a shot.
OkKeith
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Never wear face paint and only rarely to I put something on my face. Even then it's generally to help warm up a bit.
I hunt almost exclusively spot and stalk on the ground. Last fall I took my best muley wearing levi's. The one of the three bucks in the group got up and looked at me in plain site 4 different times. When I saw the antlers moving to get up I froze. They never figured out what I was until it was too late.
It's all about movement.
I do wear different hats w/leaves and junk sewed on the top and sides. Lately I've been using military boonie hats w/local vegetation in the band. I think breaking up the round dome look is critical when peaking up for a look.
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Its all about the S's.
1. Speed - you have to move REAL slow. If you move slow enough even animals facing towards you won't always pick up the danger.
2. Shadow/Sun - If you move through the sun you WILL be visible. Always move round the shadow side of a bush.
3. Silhouette/Shape - If they can see your outline, they can recognize what you are. So either break it with a leafy suit OR keep something hiding your outline BEHIND you. If its in front you'll have to peek around and that really makes your outline jump at 'em
4. Smell - ALWAYS move into the wind OR across it. Animals downwind WILL pick you up. Regardless of what soap or scentlock stuff you use.
5. Sound - Any sound not belonging in their neck of the woods are instantly recognized.
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thanks for the lesson Johan...well said
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IMO I think alot of this new age camo is just to get into our wallets.It seems like every fall realtree, mossy oak,etc comes out with the best camo pattern they have ever made.I think its most important to break up the pattern. Different camo colors and pattern I think is important.Now for the face I now am a firm believer in some kind of face paint or head net.I was hunting with a guy a few years back we were hunting the edge of the woods looking over a picked corn field.We the sun came up and it was daylight I could see his face and watched him stand up and sit down all morning long because of his face.We were hunting 1/4 mile apart!