Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Chris Shelton on June 10, 2010, 10:31:00 AM
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Alright guys, been thinking :scared: , yea you heard me . . . thinking:)
So most of us shoot our trad bows instinctively or some sub form of instinctive shooting. Anyone else wonder why we don't use the same techniques with other weapons??? Don't answer that . .
My real question is do you guys think there is a paradox between speed and instincts?
For example do you think being able to watch the path of the arrow is what makes us able to correct. I see compound guys shoot and have no idea where the arrow went until they see it on the target . . .
Anyway, what do you guys think, is the off-season getting to me, or am I on to something . . .
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I think shooting my bow translates into other "kinda" instinctive shooting such as wingshooting.
Dont know about watching the path to correct???? really want the first one to be on - this aint artillery we are dropping! right 10\\drop 20 fire for effect! On the way! arrows down range!
Kidding - on the range correcting is fine - different story in the woods. Not sure about paradoxs and all that such? do think we shoot faster using instincts over having to pay attention to a pin while holding tingue just right, tapping your pinky toe three times a second so the release goes off.
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I think the off season is getting to you. All I could suggets is to " just google it . . ."
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I think I'll have some of what Chris is smokin'.
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I think your body knows what to do and if your mind doesn't get in the way you will do well or at least after learning well the basic form/technique with whatever weapon. I shoot sporting clays and almost invariably do better with fast targets and "trappers choice" presentations and/or presentations that I've never seen before. When I start listening to the guys talk about it: "needs a two foot lead" etc. then I start THINKING about the shot and drop the clay. In answer to your question, I would say yes-I think the preconcious mind helps the body make the adjustments in trajectory then the task as it were is to keep the mind out of the way. The last thing you want to be thinking about at the moment of truth is thoughts like: "smooth release, full back tension etc." but it is of course importnat to practice those skills.
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Crazy college kids............
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First off I wouldn't call the shooting we do "instinctive". It's more like a conditioned response. The more we shoot the more our preconcious mind calibrates our movements so the next arrow is on target. I relate this type of shooting to shooting a shotgun. In order to hit a flying target we never conciously look at the barrel just at the target. We always know where the barrel is in our periphial vision though.
So to answer your question yes we do it all the time. Throwing a ball, spear, frizbee, anything. Shooting a slingshot, shotgun, whatever, it's all a conditioned response.
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I shoot much better if I don't over think the shot. That goes with other things as well.
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I wingshoot with a shotgun instinctive.
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Well maybe I worded it wrong . . . I tend to do that!
What I am asking is basically why do you guys think that instinctive shooting is not used with compounds(generally), rifles or crossbows???
P.s TJ, all I'm smoking is some groundhogs with my bow:)
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Compounds are harder to insitive shoot 'cause the arrow is far from the hand, the distance that a rifle is shot makes instict obsolite and inaccurate and why would you want to shoot a crossbow at all?
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Oh yeah I have a buddie that shoots his compound instictivly.
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When I was young boy I shot my BB gun without using the sights,it was faster and more accurate for me.
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I have seen some good instinctive compound shooter, Ted Nudgent for one shot a compound instinctive for years before he decided to pimp sites.
I shoot a shotgun "instincive" by that I mean just looking at where I want to hit.
I have tried a pistol and have yet to put in enough practice to learn it, but it would just be a matter of practice.
compounds, crossbows and rifles are capable of much better accuracy than you can achieve by shooting instinctive, so why spend the money if you are not going to take advantage of the capabilitys of the weapon?
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i also always shot a shotgun instinctice on a moving target.....
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I used to shoot compounds instinctive. Chris M is right, it is harder the farther away your hand is from the arrow. I used to high grip the compound with my index finger resting on the front of the shelf. I won many bow tournaments in the bare bow class, so it can definately be done. Running deer targets and aerial targets were not a problem.
It is just like what was earlier mentioned, shooting clay targets with a shotgun. Our last trad shoot had clays to shoot. Loved it.
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Well, I used to shoot my compound with no sights. I felt they were a distraction.
With a rifle,the short answer is because it's a waste of time. There's no way you could be accurate out past bow range. I'm a pretty good shot with a rifle and with no sights, I doubt I could hit a pie plate at 100 yards. Maybe after a few sighting rounds, but why waste the ammo?
When firearms were first being used, I'm sure that it soon became readily apparent that some sort of sighting device became necessary to take advantage of the long range capabilities.
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Up until about a month ago when I got my new recurve, I shot my compound instinctive and was quite good at it out to about 40 yds. I made the switch to the recurve and it is a totally different type of instinctive shooting. The arrow is closer to your hand, no letoff, no finger pinch from the 31" axle to axle length, and more arc in the trajectory of the arrow. I think having the basics of instinctive shooting has made the leap to trad a little easier, but it is still a completely different weapon and shooting style. But I am lovin every minute of it!!!!!!!!! :bigsmyl: :goldtooth:
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I'm not aware of the barrel or the arrow when I shoot. (If I become aware of same I will usually miss)! When I watch a close-up in a good movie, I am not aware of the blurred people in the background unless I deliberately refocus on them. When I do look instead at the background, I become keenly aware of the fact that I am watching a movie and lose my enjoyment/"suspension of disbelief." There are those who consciously see the arrow and "gap shoot" or use "split vision" accordingly. I am not defending either system here just saying that those who say they are shooting "instinctive" are, in that sense whether or not "instinctive" is the correct word to use. We are not in fact all shooting the same style. There well may be a strong, largely biological process involved in throwing objects to hit things. Part of our genetic make-up? The first time I shot trap I hit 23 though I'd never shot a shotgun before. It was only with instruction that my scores dropped a bit!
:D
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You point, in one way or another, with a bow and arrow. You point a shotgun. You can point a rifle, but sights make you more accurate at longer ranges. Pointing is instinctive,(actually muscle memory/hand eye coordination) just like throwing a baseball.
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I think that is exactly why. You see it and your brain responds. After is sees it a few times it can duplicate it. It isn't instinctive in the classical meaning, but you are subconsiously doing all that stuff.
If you can't see the effect, how do you know you did it right ? How do you correct ? it is more difficult I think.. That said, you CAN do it. Look at the fast draw experts. I think it is all about learning the game and in ours trajectory is 80% of it.
ChuckC
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Instinctive shooting is "not" instinctive,,instinctive is simply the word that has been incorrectly applied to what some of us do,an that we've become used to and except in the context of which "we" use it.
What we're doing is a a form of aiming that relies on being totaly focused on the spot we want to hit.
Because it's so focused it's not really even subconsious,,,next time some guru tells you he shoots/aims instinctively by focusing or concentrating only on his target,and then claims it's a subconsicous form of aiming,,ask him how he can be acting in both a subconcious and a focused way both at the same time.
Sorry the two don't go hand in hand,because their opersites to one another.
For sure shooting or aiming by focusing soley on our target while ignoring the arrow "or sight" is a very real deal,,,but it's niether instinctive nore is it subconcious.
It's simply an intensely focused form of aiming that is backed up by a lot of ingrained and subconcious action.
One of the reasons we don't do it with things like high powered rifles but we do with shotguns,is a combination of projectile speed in combination with distance.
For a person of average intellegence,it really doesn't take that much to figure out.
Personaly I shot compound instinctively for over 25 years,I had an elevated rest on all my compounds and I was more accurate with them than I typicaly am with my recurves,,,,the difference was speed,,,more speed,,less tradjectory,less error at target.,,,,nothing to do with hand arrow relationship,,,,everything to do with hand/eye coordination.
It's all in the eyes and the bow arm,,,practice and trust both in combination with solid physical form,and the result will always be accurate shooting.
It ain't instinctive,it ain't subconcious aiming,,,,it is focus,,it is practice,,it is form,,it is hand/eye coordination that is reachable by anybody with no more than average abilitys.