Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Andy Cooper on July 16, 2010, 02:48:00 PM
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I shoot a 50 pound bow and it is plenty to kill anything I hunt in Pa. If I were hunting Moose or Elk I would need a heavier bow.
Another poster wrote this in one of the other forums here. It got me thinking. Is 50# really not enough for elk? I've only hunted elk with traditional equipment once, and couldn't get closer than 40 yards to a 6x6 on three different days (same bull.) I was shooting a 60# Blacktail Elite at the time.
Lately, I've been shooting an old 50# Martin Hunter. I believe with 600 grain arrows and a scary-sharp Magnus BH, it would be fine for elk. BUT, I haven't the experience to back it up. What say ye?
(I'm asking because I'm about to order a new Great Plains Swift SR...and am thinking of staying with a 50#'er if I don't need to go heavier)
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I'll be hunting elk this year with my 48# longbow and a 515 grain arrow with a 2 blade Magnus Stinger. This setup chronos at 182 fps, so I feel I have plenty of penetration if I keep my shots under 20 yards (which I would with any bow/arrow) and make an accurate shot. Bows these days have much more performance that make really heavy poundages somewhat unnecessary, IMO. I shoot this weight very comfortably which allows me to have good accuracy.
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I would say 50 is capable of killing a moose or elk. Fred Eichler got a complete pass through on a moose with 54#. I have never killed an elk but I know plenty who have, one of which has killed both with a recurve at 52#'s back in the 80's before he made the switch to wheelie bows. More poundage is only an advantage if you can pull it smoothly and keep good form, which is paramount for accuracy.
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50# is plenty for anything with a sharp broadhead, and good arrow weight. Just my thoughts. Chad
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There are pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and a few mor pages of this topic here. The search feature is awesome and a great tool.
Good luck to you in the future, and yes, your 50# bow is enough in my oppinion if your arrows are true and broadheads sharp..
Todd
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Commonly held opinion seems to be 55# as a minimum for elk and moose. But there are plenty of them that ended up in people's freezed from an arrow shot from bows with lower draw weights.
Lots of factors come into play.
A high performance modern bow versus a self bow.
Carbon arrows versus wood.
26" draw versus 30" draw (given that same weight at full draw the longer draw will out perform)
Two blade versus four blade broadhead.
Perfectly tuned arrow versus a shaft that isn't spined properly for the bow.
20 yards and under versus 30 or 40 yards.
And the list goes on. And those factors listed don't even take into account shot placement. Not all 50# bows, or arrows shot from them, are created equal. Pay attention to the details, and put the arrow exactly where it belongs, and you can certainly kill large animals with a 50# bow. Higher weights simply provide an extra margin of error. Bow weight is just one of many factors that need to be considered before you can decide if your set up is adequate for the job.
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53# Griffin w/ 678 grain carbons w/ 27% EFoC should do the trick.
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My wife, god rest her, got tired of me being gone during elk season in New Mexico so she took up the bow. Being small I bought her an original bear kodiak magnum in 45# thinking she would only go a few times. Boy was I wrong. She never missed another trip. She practiced everyday and became a damn good caller.Long story short over the next 15 years she killed 6 elk. Some cows, some medium bulls. Using the zwickey big 2 blade head, cedar shafts. I used a fox longbow at 65#. None of mine died any quicker than hers. One thing I noticed, the arrows would penetrate 15 to 18 inches and while the elk ran away the arrow floped around doing massive internal damage. Shaft almost always broke off with head inside. We had a great private ranch with lots of what we call Chama bulls. Little rag horn 5's and such. All were shot at 25 yds or less. We never lost one she shot. I cannot say the same.
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A buddy of mine used a 50# last year to take his elk at just 6 yards. He is our rep here in my area of Montana for the Montana Bowhunters Association.
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Peteward.com has an article on a 41# Rodney Wright stalker taking a moose.
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Originally posted by just_a_hunter:
There are pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and a few mor pages of this topic here. The search feature is awesome and a great tool.
Yeah, I found that out after I posted. Thanks for the reply!
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Just be mindful of legal limits imposed by each state.
The rest is up to you
ChuckC
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Sure you can kill an elk with a lower poundage bow. It's all about shot placement. Same with a rifle. Some say don't hunt with a .270, only .300mag...a .270 has killed a lot of elk. But this is about archery, isn't it. Just be careful of the state regs. Here in Oregon you MUST have 50# to hunt elk.
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Here in VT 60# is the legal min for moose.I believe they have that limit more for the wheel crowd.
If it was legal I'd use my 54# Schafer with no second thought.I don't think I'd go lower than that though,but that is merely my own choosing.
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when i go elk hunting im using this bow weight...
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=091001 i will go with a lil heavier arrow that im tuning right now....but i will say that it probably wont be over 500grs. SHARP BROADHEAD AND SHOT PLACEMENT is key
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Yes a 50# bow will kill just about anything you want to hunt on the North American continent. But I figure if you can shoot a heavier bow accurately and have no problems with it then why not use a heavier bow. It's like buying a Ferrari, sure you will never get it up to it's full speed on the highway and a cheaper car will do the same job but if you can afford it you might aswell have one. As for the 270 vs 300mag I have had both and both work well but at longer ranges that 300mag carries a whole bunch more energy with a bigger/heavier bullet for big Elk than that 270 does. This of course when you start stretching the range out to 400/500yds and trophy class Elk. Then again a 338mag would be even better if you can handle it.
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I like a lighter bow.
If I was sitting still in warm weather for a few hours at a time it would be one thing.
I sit in sub freezing temps quite often and I tell you what..a 50# gets feeling pretty stiff to me.
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When I started bow hunting, 36 years ago, a good friend (older gentleman) gave me the best advice anyone could give. "If you take a high percentage shot, you will have high percentage results. Period" I believe that holds true with any weapon. As for 50#, I have no elk experience, but have zipped through deer like they were made of air. A good sharp 2 blade broadhead, and a heavier shaft do the trick. Just my opinion.
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I like what you just said Butcher " Take a high percentage shot you will have high percentage results". Quote of the week.RC
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I have not taken an elk (not from lack of trying), but, I have taken a 670# Kudu in Africa with a 50# at my draw length longbow. I think shot placement might be a little more important with the lighter weight but it definitely can be done effctively.
Bisch
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I read somewhere a guy killed a full grown elk with a 43@30 ACS and got a complete pass through.
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I've read somewhere that ANY arrow from ANY bow should be shot at an elk standing broadside. Stay away from quartering away shots. If your shot hits too far back, a gut full of grass can stop an arrow like a target mat!
... mike ...
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Originally posted by snag:
It's all about shot placement. Same with a rifle. Some say don't hunt with a .270, only .300mag...a .270 has killed a lot of elk. But this is about archery, isn't it.
I was thinking the very same thing, but being a newbie here, didn't want to mention (rifles). :knothead: :D
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50 lbs will do it just make sure its legal to use that weight....some states have a 50lb minimum and some are as low as 40lbs.
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Why go with the minimum when you can shoot. A little more weight and know it will be efficient. Of course you still need to put the shoot in the vitals.
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Bows in the 40 to 50 pound draw range have killed every animal on this continent for nearly 2,000 years and still going. I don't think anything has changed. :dunno:
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quote:
Originally posted by Tsalagi:
Bows in the 40 to 50 pound draw range have killed every animal on this continent for nearly 2,000 years and still going. I don't think anything has changed. :thumbsup:
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i'm gld i read this couse i wanna use my 48# long bow for elk next year
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all about the broadhead and where you put it
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No shame here with me about rifles Andy. I'd say lots of guys here like to hear the rifle crack. I love archery, more than any other type of hunting. But PA seasons are so screwed up, if you like to hunt, you gotta do what you gotta do. My second love, is long range groundhog hunting. I have a 37 pound custom rifle I use for that, with a 1960's 24X Unertl on it(the tradtional part coming out in me). Even though I'm going to Denton for the primitave archery, I can guarantee, my .22-250, and .220 Swift will make the trip to take advantages of the long fields up north. Besides, unless I'm wrong because I'm a newbie too. Is this not the Pow Wow, where we can chat? I'd say your question was a good one, as I know I don't do a search on every subject. I'd also guess that large numbers of traditional hunters use between 45-50 pound bows for good reason. Control. In another life about 20 years ago, when I was in my 20's, I had a 72# Damon Howett Hunter (measure of my manhood. Yea, I shot it real good, lol Ended up with a 65# Wapiti TD, then ended up with a 52# set of limbs for that. I now shoot 51#, can handle it, and if I must say so, I think I shoot it very well on my good days. Can I shoot a heavier bow? Sure. Can I shoot it well enough to have the confidence I need. No! Everything aside, a good shot with a light bow, is better than a poor shot from a heavy one. Shoot the poundage that is good for you, and forget what everyone else shoots. It's a moot subject. Joe Blow shooting 65# ain't going to be in my treestand. Closing, Do check game laws. Again, just my opinion.
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If you shoot what you are comfortable and consistant with you have already won half the battle. Shot Placement, Shot Placement
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I hunt them every year with 55 lb's. The wife uses 42 lbs on R/D longbow. Just keep your arrow weight up, get close, and shoot straight. A 30 lb selfbow with wood arrows and obsidian points will kill elk. American Idians proved it for thousands of years!
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like the others said ill take a good shot with a 40 lb bow over a bad shot with a 60-70 ect.... any day.
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I don't know how or who does the math in our local DNR, but 50# is the minimum here in Nova Scotia for moose. I haven't been so lucky, but I got an e-mail one time here from one of the moderators who said that bow weight has iimportance, but it's mostly about the arrow. Well tuned and razor sharp is what sticks in my mind.
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I bet someone's killed an elk with a 28#@24" bow...and a field point.
It's all about respect....and knowing your equipment and your limitations: meaning shot angle, distance, etc. When faced with a big 6x6, don't let the thrill of the moment take away your objectivity when decided shoot/don't shoot.
Remember above all else- you're the ONLY one making a choice in that situation- the elk you hit with that arrow isn't- and he/she has the most to lose.
A lot of these "axioms" we've used in the past were based on the equipment we had available in the 50's, 60's, and 70's.
The situation today is different. We have many more choices- better builders, better materials, better efficiency in designs also.
And combined with our now clear understanding that a heavier arrow combined with what used to be thought of as a moderate weight bow- especially one built with our new-found efficiencies- would have made that bow a lot deadlier for larger game as well. The bow is a launching pad- the arrow/broadhead combination is the critical component here.
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When finding the proper set up for elk, moose bears etc, Isn`t it the slug/momentum that is the most important, besides the weight of the arrow?(and sharp bh`s)
There is so many different bows with different effectiveness on your draw length so maybe the way of finding out the limits is better with momentum?
(Formula for calculating momentum:
Momentum = Mass (in grains).velocity (in feet per second)/225218 slugs)
example 50# bow, 600 gn arrow:
600 gn arrow X 160 fps / 225218= 0,426 momentum
Would this setup do the job on the game with proper sharp bh`s? :coffee:
Margly
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I note the OR law statement above. I haven't checked the law but I know a fellow (OR resident), who will remain unnamed who told me he shot, killed, and quickly recovered a Roosevelt elk with a 47# traditional bow last year. Of course states with such bowhunting regulations rarely enforce them. I'm a "graduate" of nearly 30 years working for (and writing regulations) for 4 state fish & wildlife agencies. Such regulations generally get enforced when the hunter is suspected of a more grievous violation that can't be proved -- so the agent tries to write up other violations. I'm sure there are some out there but it would be an oddity to find an officer with a bow scale checking bowhunters. If they are knowledgable about archey (you'd be surprised how little some of them know about this) they would simply either 1). Ask the hunter the draw weight or 2)read the spec on the bow. Of course most of you here know how inaccurate reading the spec might be. A buddy just returned from Africa and did quite well with a 52# recurve. Like many have said, the condition of the equipment, talent of the archer, and probably most importantly the decisions made by the archer are more critical than a few more pounds of draw weight.
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Its not needed, but ill throw in my 2cents worth! A #50 bow with an arrow in the 550gr range and a good sharp 2 blade head like the STOS, Magnus or Zwickey, and good shot placement= a recovered animal thats as dead as the guys shooting the #70 bow!
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I shoot 50 at 28 and never had a problem with arrows from 450-550.
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Originally posted by Andy Cooper:
I shoot a 50 pound bow and it is plenty to kill anything I hunt in Pa. If I were hunting Moose or Elk I would need a heavier bow.
Another poster wrote this in one of the other forums here. It got me thinking. Is 50# really not enough for elk? I've only hunted elk with traditional equipment once, and couldn't get closer than 40 yards to a 6x6 on three different days (same bull.) I was shooting a 60# Blacktail Elite at the time.
Lately, I've been shooting an old 50# Martin Hunter. I believe with 600 grain arrows and a scary-sharp Magnus BH, it would be fine for elk. BUT, I haven't the experience to back it up. What say ye?
(I'm asking because I'm about to order a new Great Plains Swift SR...and am thinking of staying with a 50#'er if I don't need to go heavier) [/b]
:deadhorse: Lots of good posts... :deadhorse: So I will just say that is a question you must ask yourself....
But think the following quote may help when you ask that question of yourself:
Football is a great deal like life in that it teaches that work, sacrifice, perseverance, competitive drive, selflessness and respect for authority is the price that each and every one of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile.”
“To achieve success, whatever the job we have, we must pay a price.”
“Success is like anything worthwhile. It has a price. You have to pay the price to win and you have to pay the price to get to the point where success is possible. Most important, you must pay the price to stay there.”
“Once you agree upon the price you and your family must pay for success, it enables you to ignore the minor hurts, the opponent’s pressure, and the temporary failures.”
“A man can be as great as he wants to be. If you believe in yourself and have the courage, the determination, the dedication, the competitive drive, and if you are willing to sacrifice the little things in life and pay the price for the things that are worthwhile, it can be done.” Vince Lombardi-
So my point is if you believe it is enough, it probably is... Just be ethical, be honest (with yourself), and realize that the difference between success and failure is usually hard work and confidence!
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Quite a thoughtful post, Slasher. Thanks! :thumbsup:
(not that the other replies were unthoughtful...all are appreciated!)
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Andy,50#s is enuff,a good tuff sharp bh is crucial,shot placement is of course priorty.B confident with your set up,I have horns 2 prove the sceptics different.
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I'd go 55# min on elk.
Never shot an elk though, just a few deer with 55 and 57# rigs.
When I get back on my feet I'll get another 'Widow with 2 sets of limbs, 50-52# for deer, 55-58# for elk.
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I do agree.....that dead is dead, but making things dead faster (and where you can easily find it) is better.
Lots of stuff comes into play, IMHO a little insurance is a good thing.
If one can shoot 50# well, fine. They might be able to shoot 55# well too with maybe a bit more work/practice (Just trying to counter possible comfort zone rationalizations-if there are any).
With some work and practice we often can extend our options and abilities.
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Slasher.......
That "believe in yourself" stuff isn't always of merit.
Look at the TV shows "America's Got Talent" and "American Idol" ;)
Like you said, ya gotta be honest with your self.
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Guns or bows, don't matter... It ain't what you throw, it's how you throw it.
my 2 cents.
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That sounds like a voice with experience. How many elk or moose have you taken, sir?
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Originally posted by Hookeye:
Slasher.......
That "believe in yourself" stuff isn't always of merit.
Look at the TV shows "America's Got Talent" and "American Idol" ;)
Like you said, ya gotta be honest with your self.
I agree... It was more about the hard work and sacrifice that goes into Knowing what you can do and what you can't do... I know my limits and don't take a shot I don't know I can make..
I have no idea how the original poster can or can't shoot on the range or in the field... But I am sure that they do... Thepoint I was attempting to make with the quote is it surely is enough if you MAKE THE SHOT!!! Making the shot is the difference in most of these discussions over 4 pages of discussion... If you put in the time, you know what you, your bow, and a your arrow can and can't do... you will believe in yourself... enough to wait for the shot you need to make a clean ethical kill...
No matter what anyone on here says... if the guy is a good shot and a good hunter 50# is plenty... CO required 35#, MT 50#... I don't believe that false feel good "believe" stuff is even in the same conversation...
But if you doubt going in 99 times out of 100 you will fail.. If the poster was unsure because his abilities... then definitely 50# isn't enough... However, if the same guy is no confident because someone EXPERT SAid he needed 70# wheelie bow, then that doubt is probably worth less than the time anyone spent on posting here....
:laughing: Only the OP will know fer sure... But if it was a choice between a 20yd shot broadside with a 45# or a 30 yd shot with a 60# bow, I'd take the first and pass on the second... why? Because I know what shot I can make... I am more accurate with a 45# bow than with a 60.... Also at 20yds a lot less can go wrong than at 30yds...
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I too think confidence to be a key item in making for success.
Even if we try to limit things to being as close to ideal as possible (which is a moving target of its own, as we don't know all that factors into an event)......well I just never saw the critters walking through the woods reading my script.
:)
My concern is for when things don't go as planned.
There I think deeper is probably better (just my .02).
Will add that confidence from practice can allow for some folks to make shots of which others might be condemning.
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FWIW I knew a guy who was pretty clueless in many aspects. His limited abilites he thought to be the benchmark for others.
Up until his enlightenment he reeked of over confidence. And then he missed a chip shot.
Ego's dropping from treestand height make for a cool sound.
I was thinking about him when I read the "believe in yourself" stuff. I don't think he was fully dishonest, part of it was just from a coddled upbringing (liberal "feel good about really not having really achieved" nonsense).
I do see some of that to lesser extent working in a sporting goods store. When I do a good job of keeping my big mouth shut my halo seems to glisten ;)
That is why I added my post before.......people really do need to be reflective and honest with their selves.........not just in bowhunting/archery.
If that kind of thing ever catches on, well we ought to have a lot of new shining faces in government LOL.
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Hookeye said:
"Look at the TV shows "America's Got Talent" and "American Idol""
Do I have to? :D
I can honestly say I have never seen either of those two shows. Probably because I haven't had a television since 1996. Because of that, I believe in what I can do, not what others tell me I ought to be able to do, should do, or aspire to be. I alone decide those things. Using bows in the 50 pound range. :D :D :D
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Hookeye doesn't need me to speak on his behalf, but what I think I hear him saying is that no matter how hard we try to have things work out to our script, and while confidence is a good thing, realism about your equipment and your capabilities is just as critical if not more so.
Confidence, in and of itself, is not going to bring about the clean death of an animal unless we know ourselves and our equipment better than we know our friends.
I've seen tons of grown men with lots of confidence and time in the woods shoot over/under/and through the bad parts of hogs and deer at under 10 yards.
A man who's killed as much or more game than most of the people I know shot the ground between the legs of a 380" elk at 10 feet- bad stuff happens to good people...and while shooting 5 or 10 more pounds won't kill the elk if you shoot between its feet, it MIGHT help you do more damage if you make a marginal hit on a big boned animal, and get you two holes and a blood trail instead of an entrance wound and no happy ending.
I just watched a guy from essentially out of nowhere- 160 lbs and only 5'10" tall hit 330 yard drives and beat the pants off of Tiger and a slew of other guys bigger and stronger than he was to win the British Open.
If he'd done what most 160 lb guys 5'10" tall do, and shoot tee shots about 250 yards- I doubt he would have won today. Instead, he knew what it took to win- and practiced and tinkered with his equipment till he could do what was required-he didn't work backwards to hit only as far as necessary- he wanted to clobber the heck out of the ball and beat everyone - with distance and accuracy- and that's what he did.
But the trend now seems to be to work backwards to where we shoot the lightest possible equipment we can get away with in bowhunting, and that's where lives are at stake.
If any of us were out of work, and there was a job throwing 50 lb sacks off a railroad car, I guarantee you we'd take that job, but we wouldn't try to then get 'em to pack the sacks with 40 lbs...we'd learn how to throw 50 pounders.
I'm just sayin'.... if you even need to ask other's opinions about whether your equipment is too light for an elk or moose, aren't you sort of answering your own question?
I've seen firsthand what can happen even on light boned critters like deer and want to do everything I can to make marginal hits work for me.
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I understand what you're saying, Ray, and I agree with a lot of it. Around the region I live (and I'm not talking about traditional bows, just to be clear), the trend isn't the lightest equipment possible. It's actually finding a way to try and make technology make up for time spent in front of a target. Some people here like the racks, but not target time.
My point is, every game animal on this continent has been taken with 50 pound bows in the hands of skilled bowmen. If a person shoots a 65 pound bow and likes it, I say more power to him. I think that's great and I think people should like what they shoot. There's guys in the UK shooting English longbows upwards of 90 pound draw weights just for the pure fun of shooting war bows. But where I draw the line is someone saying that you HAVE to have a 65 pound bow to shoot a Snuffelufagus or what-have-you when we know a 50 pounder can and has done it and will continue to do it.
And, just sayin', I don't think we really need to delve into socio-political reasons for something (i.e. "...liberal "feel good about really not having really achieved" nonsense...")as it really detracts from the conversation. Points can be made without armchair sociology.
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Originally posted by Ray Hammond:
Hookeye doesn't need me to speak on his behalf, but what I think I hear him saying is that no matter how hard we try to have things work out to our script, and while confidence is a good thing, realism about your equipment and your capabilities is just as critical if not more so.
Confidence, in and of itself, is not going to bring about the clean death of an animal unless we know ourselves and our equipment better than we know our friends.
I've seen tons of grown men with lots of confidence and time in the woods shoot over/under/and through the bad parts of hogs and deer at under 10 yards.
A man who's killed as much or more game than most of the people I know shot the ground between the legs of a 380" elk at 10 feet- bad stuff happens to good people...and while shooting 5 or 10 more pounds won't kill the elk if you shoot between its feet, it MIGHT help you do more damage if you make a marginal hit on a big boned animal, and get you two holes and a blood trail instead of an entrance wound and no happy ending.
I just watched a guy from essentially out of nowhere- 160 lbs and only 5'10" tall hit 330 yard drives and beat the pants off of Tiger and a slew of other guys bigger and stronger than he was to win the British Open.
If he'd done what most 160 lb guys 5'10" tall do, and shoot tee shots about 250 yards- I doubt he would have won today. Instead, he knew what it took to win- and practiced and tinkered with his equipment till he could do what was required-he didn't work backwards to hit only as far as necessary- he wanted to clobber the heck out of the ball and beat everyone - with distance and accuracy- and that's what he did.
But the trend now seems to be to work backwards to where we shoot the lightest possible equipment we can get away with in bowhunting, and that's where lives are at stake.
If any of us were out of work, and there was a job throwing 50 lb sacks off a railroad car, I guarantee you we'd take that job, but we wouldn't try to then get 'em to pack the sacks with 40 lbs...we'd learn how to throw 50 pounders.
I'm just sayin'.... if you even need to ask other's opinions about whether your equipment is too light for an elk or moose, aren't you sort of answering your own question?
I've seen firsthand what can happen even on light boned critters like deer and want to do everything I can to make marginal hits work for me.
Hey Ray, Just what I was thinking but couldn't put it to words.
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I've watched 585g, efoc with 190g grizzlys, arrows slide right through a 380# sow from a 52# Hill. Also watched 3 other ones go in barley 7" on the bad hits, same hog.
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I think one could sacrifice a little accuracy for enhanced penetration/shorter time of flight.
Accuracy accuracy.....indoor IFAA stuff, what is considered acceptable accuracy? (lets just use that as an example/measuring stick).
To the guy going for the state title, I bet a 240 would be a crappy score. His using an arrow tip as a sight, lower #, he might shoot well closer to 300.
But what about Mr.240, or even Mr.200?
The end score may not be fully reflective of his ability, accuracy alone. He might have great accuracy (or at least decent) up to a point and then fatigue set in and drop his score.
Like trap shooting, there are some folks who shoot a good short string. My ego bud (of previous mention) shot a 25 one day on my local trap range. I have never shot a 25. I've shot a few 96's though..........and my bud can't break 90.
But by golly, he got a 25.
I think a guy who shoots a little heavier bow, to usable good accuracy, but maybe not super fine accuracy, to still have a decent and maybe even better hunting set-up.
My indoor 220-240 scores proved relative to field experience, I nailed 5 deer in a row without a miss (one trotting by at a good clip too). No I won't win state, do OK at local shoots (make for a less than embarrassing display most times ;)
But back then I was shooting around 58-61#.
Injury, healing has dropped my whitetail # to 50 or a tad over. I'll work my butt off and maybe get to 55+.........for my elk hunt of the future.
If I can't.........I'll take a .35 Whelen.
To each his own.
Cheers,
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I would never, ever, sacrifice accuracy for more pounds of draw weight. Arrows kill by hemorrhage, not force of impact. One should not rely on force to make a bad shot good. Recipe for disaster.
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quote:
:thumbsup:
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Don,
Please define "accurate".
Nobody has attempted to do so (from what I've read on this thread). So far there's only been the general terms stated or implied of "accurate" and "not accurate".
Rattling shafts in the X, golfball sized groups, baseball sized groups, being able to hold a certain group for so many arrows without deterioration ?????????
Unless people are Robin-Hooding their X ring arrows one after the other, there's a loss of accuracy.
What expansion of group size, due to increased performance, is acceptable?
Nobody has said.
But many have said, or implied, that any degradation is unacceptable.
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By nature of traditional equipment/style we ARE accepting of some loss in accuracy.
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Ray absolutely nailed it IMO.
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I agree with Ray Hammond. I would also add that a lot of people don't shoot as much as needed for maximum accuracy and to strengthen the muscles needed to shoot a 55 lb. bow. Hence they are always trying to use less. If you shoot enough, the bow you are shooting will start to feel weak. Over time you can work up to more weight. This of course doesn't work if you have physical injuries or handicaps. We are not in control of the arrow after it leaves the bow. Sometimes animals move. No one ever lost an animal from too much penetration. I like a lighter bow to keep my form when not shooting a lot. But when it starts getting closer to elk season I like to work up to at least 60 lbs. That combined with heavy arrows has made some marginal hits very deadly. Gary
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If I shoot a 2" group with a 50# bow, but shoot a 4" group with a 55# does that mean I shouldn't shoot the 55#?
At what distance do we measure this grouping ability?
Again, I'd like to hear how people are defining what is "accurate".
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I just went through most of this thread and some of you guys think to much lol. I guess I don't see the point of shooting over 50lbs (for me) when I get exits on big critters most of the time with what I'm shooting now??? To me its a trade off, I can hold 50 for a long time 60 I can not. Could I work into it prolly just don't see the reason behind it. JMHO
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Originally posted by Don Stokes:
I would never, ever, sacrifice accuracy for more pounds of draw weight. Arrows kill by hemorrhage, not force of impact. One should not rely on force to make a bad shot good. Recipe for disaster.
Bad shots happen, often outside of the shooter's input. To operate with no margin for error is a recipe for disaster.
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In the late 60's when I started, many folks, considered effective range was the distance you could put 9 of 10 arrows in a 10" paper-plate. I started at 5 yards and when I could consistently do it I backed up 5 yards. When I got to 30 yards I stopped.
Our deer season will start on September 4th. This will be the first for me with traditional equipment since I was 22 years old -- 34 years ago.
Accuracy is the most important to me.
1. If I can't hit the vitals I won't shoot.
2. If I don't think my equipment will produce an exit wound I won't shoot.
3. If I don't think the shot will produce an exit wound, I won't shoot.
In those early days it seems the adults (I was only 16) who were shooting heavy weight bows were shooting "only" 50-55# draw weights (my bow was 45# @ 28" my draw is 26").
I used to shoot a lot of 3-D courses. I've shot a few traditional 3-D courses this year. It is shocking how much difficulty some of the poor souls I see on the traditional 3-D trail have with shooting. We can't even talk about accuracy because too many of these folks can't even get to anchor. It isn't a strength thing, it's a mental thing. I feel for these fellows because I know some of them personally and they love archery and give back to it big time with their service. I know the shooting problem these folks have doesn't necessarily have a thing to do with how much they are pulling, it has to do more with what their thinking about while pulling. However, I can't help but wonder how many of them ended up with shooting problems because they were over-bowed. I think a lot took the sage advice of "shooting the heaviest poundage you can (shoot accurately)". Problem with that advice is people start with the heaviest poundage they can DRAW and THEN try to achieve the accuracy. Many develop shooting problems (mental) which prevent them from ever achieving accuracy. I think some traditional shooters who put the compound down did so because they developed issues with the compound and couldn't place tiny groups anymore. They converted to traditional because they weren't "expected" to be accurate.
I stumbled upon how much difference just 5 pounds can have on a person's development of proper arhcery form as I retaught myself to shoot with recurves over the past 7 months. I average shooting at least once per day 6-200 arrows (usually 30-50). By the way, I also learned (some of your are thinking duh) that as I build my shooting muscles shooting every day isn't the best thing I could do. This past week I made myself put the bow down for 3 days. It was very difficult not to shoot because it is part of my daily bread. Then I shot yesterday. The bow felt 5 pounds lighter in draw weight! I guess I had given my muscles some time (like weight lifters do) to repair and build.
My advice to anywone would be to start with a bow that is lighter than you can easily handle. Perfect your form with this too-light equipment and train your mind how to shoot and how to think about your shooting. Then, if the weight you've mastered is too low for ethical (your ethic, not mine) bowhunting, start moving up. However, as you move up ALWAYS maintain the form you've established. If your form or thought process starts to falter, realign the thinking or drop back in weight.
Here's a fact of life I accept. If it takes 90 pounds (and $25,000) to shoot a Cape Buffalo, I'm not capable of doing it. Every beast we bowhunt has its own set of requirements (whitetail deer in KY -- 30-50 pounds of draw weight and $30 license) -- I hope to be able to do both of these for another 20-30 years, God willing.
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Even though my question was repetitive and I didn't do a search before posting it, this has been an informative thread. I presently have only a 50# recurve and am going to get another. When I was shooting 60#'ers, then picked up the 50#, it seemed like a toy, and I shot it more accurately. I suspect I was over bowed at 60#, even though I could keep all my arrows on a paper plate sized target inside of 30 yards...and even though I'm a bit larger than the average person. I KNOW I was over bowed with the 80#'er I gave away! Fifteen arrows at a time was all I could manage to shoot, and they patterned like a cylinder choked shotgun.
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"Only the OP will know fer sure... But if it was a choice between a 20yd shot broadside with a 45# or a 30 yd shot with a 60# bow, I'd take the first and pass on the second... why? Because I know what shot I can make... I am more accurate with a 45# bow than with a 60.... Also at 20yds a lot less can go wrong than at 30yds... "
I'm not understanding the premise of this statement: Do you think we shoot higher poundage to get the opportunity to shoot longer shots?
I know that's not what I do.
Enough goes wrong inside of 20 we don't even need to worry about 30 yards- and no matter how good you are- there's a hugely significant issue involved over which you have NO control- game movement.
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I agree. Draw weight is for penetration not distance. I want to hit em hard enough at 20 yards (preferably under) for a sure and rapid recovery.
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I'm not understanding the premise of this statement: Do you think we shoot higher poundage to get the opportunity to shoot longer shots?
I know that's not what I do.
That was my thinking when I was shooting 60# bows....maximizing range. After shooting nothing but a 50#'er for awhile, I can't imagine that it wouldn't be sufficient if I do my part properly. But I asked the question anyway, to take advantage of other's experience, since my trad bowhunting experience is very limited.
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Originally posted by Ray Hammond:
"Only the OP will know fer sure... But if it was a choice between a 20yd shot broadside with a 45# or a 30 yd shot with a 60# bow, I'd take the first and pass on the second... why? Because I know what shot I can make... I am more accurate with a 45# bow than with a 60.... Also at 20yds a lot less can go wrong than at 30yds... "
I'm not understanding the premise of this statement: Do you think we shoot higher poundage to get the opportunity to shoot longer shots?
I know that's not what I do.
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Ray,
I didn't even want to really get dragged into this discussion like this... This discussion is not a right wrong or even a win lose situation....
I see your point and it is a very good one... However, I think think that we are disagreeing on points that we probably agree on... because we are seeing things from a different perspective... Since this is hypothetical and we are looking from different viewpoints... I will attempt to explain my point...
Here without the sake of emotion the communication is only partially conveyed... I am not nocking anyone who can shoot a 60-80# bow accurately... However, I think when things go bad a heavier arrow shot out of a heavier bow will fare better than a lighter one or one shot out of a lighter bow when put into the same spot... The issue to me is more of a question of,' Is a good arrow out of a 50# bow better than a marginal shot out of a 55 or 60# bow?"
I also believe than a two blade penetrate better than a 3 or 4 blade... Dr Ashby has very good documentation on these issues...
However, Some folks believe that their cedar shafted arrows with woodsmans are plenty... But a 60# bow slinging a wood shafted arrow with Woodsman heads will fair far less than a grizzly on a skinny carbon out of a 50# bow many times... Not always...
There are a myriad of factors that could effect these hypotheticals... I agree shoot theheaviest bow you can shoot accurately!!! But I don't believe it is a magical number... as a light 45# bow that gets it at 26"amo is usually less effective as one pulling45# at 31"amo....
I don't advocate a heavier bow means a longer shot... My point was is that at 20yds, Given a hypothetical quartering away shot on a calm unsuspecting elk, for me holding a well tuned 45# bow I would say it is a green light to let it fly...
Unfortunately, many folks may work up to a heavier bow for a couple months to go a a one time hunt... and after spending lots of hard earned $$$ knowing this hunt is a once every 2-3 year thing at best... may only be shooting that 60# marginally... be worn out from mountains they weren't prepared for... and feel the need to make meat ! The opportunity presents itself and the confidence of shooting this heavier bow, the adrenaline of the encounter coursing through their veins... The body's fight or flight instinct takes over!!! I'd say more folks than would admit, would let that arrow fly... Much confidence is gained by shooting a heavier bow!
For sake of argument, let's say that with fatigue, terrain, vegetation that the hypothetical hunter in this case; has the ability to 70% of the time put the shot will be on target... It is the 30% we are worrying about... The more accurate the archer the higher that successful percentage climbs... The less accurate the lower it falls... But I am advocating that being on the lower end of the effective bow weight one must be more dilligent in their shot selection... I would say I would say my chances of pulling a bad shot would go up 10-15% pulling 60-65# bow over a 55# one...
The animal is the great unknown... We owe it to the animal and ourselves to do the most we can to ensure a clean effective and humane kill on the game we hunt... I just would prefer to raise my chances to 80% than drop them to 60 or 65% hypothetically speaking...
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Contrary to some of the statements here, not everyone can work up to shooting 55# or more. When I shot compound, I shot 85#-95# (I was young and dumb). When I first made the switch to stickbows, I dropped down to the mid 70# range. In the early '90s, I bought a 59# bow and had good success with it on deer and black bear.
Two summers ago I began to loose feeling and muscle control on my right side (bow arm side, I am a lefty) and after a bunch of tests and scans, I found out that I was suffering from nerve damage. It turns out I had broken my neck in two places many years ago! I did not know it was ever broken.....could've been work or sports or just doing something stupid...don't know for sure.
The doctors told me if I was to continue shooting I was to shoot no more than 50#. To be able to do that, I lift weights 3 times a week and go thru a series of stretches and isometrics every morning.I have "cheated" a bit and am shooting 52# and 54# but my shooting sessions are much shorter now.I tried a heavier bow (56#) and found that my right should starts to tingle and after 50 arrows, the tingling moves down into my fingers.
I have increased my arrow weight as well as my foc on my arrows to maximize my penetration and I limit my shot distance. I make sure that my bow is tuned and my broadheads are shaving sharp.
Shoot as much weight as you can accurately shoot, shoot a razor sharp head and a heavy arrow. Limit your shots and hunt hard!
Mike
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This bow weight question is the most burning question I have as I go into this next deer season. I shot 45-50# recurves (@ 26" so you know really 40-45#) for 6 years and then up to 76# with compounds the next 24 years and 60# for 15 years after that. I'm used to blowing way through everything I shoot with those compound set-ups. I've worked, I 've shot, and I've studying my recurve shooting since December. To maintain my form I feel like I need to be shooting 46-48 pounds. I killed two deer in those early recurve days with light tackle. I don't know why I'm worried a bit about it as I return to the recurve fold. I guess its the time spent at higher weights. My friends, and several on this site have assured me my tackle, as long as my decisions are sound, won't let me down. I applaude those who are able to master higher draw weights. They might be able to shoot multple-blade broadheads and maybe take a bit of harder quartering away shot than I. They might be able to hunt a little higher in a tree and take a shot down the back. I'll have to come in from the side. This next statement isn't for the veterans because you know it. I advise new archers and I deal with thousands of them, to be careful shooting heavy weight bows to protect their shoulders for a long archery life. Young people don't realize they won't be invulnerable forever. I always ask them this, "How far in the ground on the other side of the deer do you need to go?"
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I too have wondered at the validity of bow weight as a measure of suitability for any particular animal. As a case in point, 2 of my bows happen to like the same spine arrow (different center shots) one is 53@28 and the other is 45@28. I draw both to approximately 29". When i chrono these two bows with the exact same arrow, the 45 lb'er only shoots an average of 4fps slower. Results are similar with varying arrow weights. My conclusion is that the 45 lb is just more efficient than the 53.
One poster back a few pages suggested that momentum may be a better measure, and judging from my results I would have to agree. I can understand why most people use bow weight - it's just easier to measure, but for me, I won't hesitate to use my efficient 45 as I've seen the penetration capability of both these bows, and there really hasn't been any difference.
I thing I can say, is that on average, I shoot the lighter bow more consistently, especially when it gets real cold.
As always, shoot and use what works for you!
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Hookeye, accuracy for me means being the best I can be. I shot 65-70# for years, but I can no longer shoot that weight with the accuracy that put a number of game animals on the ground and filled my hunting room with 3D trophies. Nowadays I shoot 50# most of the time, and I'm fully confident that I can kill anything that gets in the way of my arrows with it. If I tried to shoot 65#, I would not be as confident.
When I started bowhunting in the '60's, the typical hunting bow pulled 40-45#, and anyone who shot 60# was looked on with awe, like he was a real he-man to be able to shoot such weight. Those 40-45# bows killed everything on the continent. The animals are no tougher today. If I have to drop a few more pounds as I age, it won't bother me a bit. I'll still kill just as effectively, as long as my ACCURACY is still there.
A bad hit is a bad hit, and a few more pounds of draw weight is not likely to make a real difference. Even the heaviest of arrows shot from the heaviest of bows will not do the job if the arrow is in the wrong place. Yes, sometimes things happen that mess up the shot. If I'm unlucky enough to have that happen to me, I'll work on my shot timing and my accuracy, instead of running to a heavier bow to try to make up for my shortcomings.
I fully agree that more can be better, but not at the risk of losing accuracy to ANY degree. Shoot what you can handle, not what you can possibly pull. If I could handle 65-70# today, that's what I would be shooting. At my age and with a beat-up body I can't, so I shoot less. I still put animals on the ground, and haven't lost one in years.
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Originally posted by skarcher:
I thing I can say, is that on average, I shoot the lighter bow more consistently, especially when it gets real cold.
I bet you know a whole lot more about cold than do those of us in the desert southwest US! :saywhat:
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Originally posted by Andy Cooper:
I bet you know a whole lot more about cold than do those of us in the desert southwest US!
Seein' as how I'm gettin' older, I don't hunt much below -20 anymore, but with the right clothing, it's not really all that bad. When a good animal comes your way, you forget all about the cold, but if you've been sitting for a while, it takes a bit of effort to come to full draw. That's one of the reasons I prefer a little lighter draw weight, especially if the results are the same.
By the same token, I really would like some day to experience a rut hunt in above 0 temps!
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The early muley season here is in August. It'll be somewhere between 80 and 110 degrees. The rut hunt is in Jan, and the temp will be somewhere between 20(with a 10-60 mph breeze) and 50...with the same breeze. Nothing like hunting in the desert! :rolleyes:
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Unfortunately, Ray there aren't any moose and very few elk here in PA, so to answer your question sir...NONE. Just as you thought. I was merely chiming in with my own personal line of BS like everyone else. Nice knives.
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50 lbs. is plenty for deer. I prefer more weight if hunting elk. Can 50 lbs. kill an elk? Sure. But I had one elk quartering away that turned at the shot. I hit him right in front of the hip. The arrow went through the stomach and came out the neck. I don't think 50 lbs. would have done that. I also shot one out of a tree stand that I hit in the scapula. The arrow went through and into the vitals. I just like the little extra bit of insurance. If I couldn't shoot 60 lbs. I would have to shoot less and be more careful. Most of the time it won't make any difference. But I prefer 60 and above on elk. Gary
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Draw weight alone doesn't tell the tale. A self bow puts out considerably less energy than a modern FF recurve at the same draw weight. For instance, my 40# recurve shoots the same arrow as my 50# r/d longbow, at the same speed.
I would hunt elk with a 50# FF recurve, but probably not with a 50# Dacron-strung self bow.
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Connie Renfro can answer this with much success with light bows and self bows>
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These discussions, even occurring as often as they do, are largely irrelevant, because they are always comparing apples to oranges. Obviously, a 45# bow whether it be longbow, r/d, recurve or self bow, when measured at 30" draw length is not the same bow as a 45# bow measured at 27" draw length. I like Dave Petersen's formula for leveling the playing field. If the bow will shoot an arrow weighing in the neighborhood of 650 grains at a velocity in the neighborhood of 150 fps it will work for elk. Since I have a short draw length (27") I use this threshold to determine which bow I will use for elk and which will be acceptable for deer. All of the other things that have been mentioned regarding increasing the overall efficiency of your outfit still apply - i.e. good arrow flight, high foc, sharp broadheads, etc. Discussing the best and/or minimum draw weight in and of itself just has too many variables to be able to reach valid conclusions.
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Greg just made my point on this nicely. It is not about the bow weight. Dr. Ashby's work has proven multiple times that while more draw weight is an enhancement it is a minor one when compared to proper tuning and arrow optimization.
I shoot 55lbs because I am comfortable shooting it and shoot well with that weight. I have been told and read that 55lbs at 30 inches is equivalent to 65 lbs at 28 inches. Not sure if it is true or not.
I spend my time practicing and making sure everything is tuned perfectly. I like to get close enough to smell the elk and see the whites of their eyes before sending an arrow down range. I stump shoot and practice my stalking and tracking skills all year round, all of which matter a whole lot more than working up to a heavier bow weight.
I never shoot at game past 25 yards so the arrow trajectory won't improve much with the heavier weight bow. Plus, arrow velocity is a minor factor in animal penetration. It helps, but is not nearly as important as the mass of the arrow, perfect tuning, and a razor sharp broadhead. I spend my time, money, and effort on optimizing my set up for the bow I shoot best.
I live in the middle of elk, bear, cougar, and deer country and have hunted my entire life. 50 lbs is plenty of weight for all of them. The wife hunts with 42 lbs. She gets spitting close before taking her shot. She can make meat just like the heavy bow shooters. Nothing wrong with a heavier bow. If you like them have at it. I value my shoulders enough to know that I need to stick with 55 lbs.
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my Pronghorn is 52lbs. Killed everything I've shot with it.
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Originally posted by NancyVTAS:
Connie Renfro can answer this with much success with light bows and self bows>
I was just thinking the same thing myself. ;)
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I made the original statement and would use a bow over 50 pounds for Elk and Moose, if I couldn't shoot the heavier weight than I wouldn't hunt Elk or Moose...Shoot whatever you want with whatever you want but I feel you need the right tool for the job. Lighter bows shoot heavy arrows but the distance is critical. A arrow will drop quite a bit with just a five yard error shooting heavy arrows from a light bow. The arrow drops like a rock past 20 yards.
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I have always been quick to offer advise to people shooting low poundage. 45 -50 pounds. I have been a fan of "big" broadheads for years like Snuffers and Simmons but now as bad shoulders and getting more "Mature"...lol has set in choices have to be made.
This year I`ll be shooting around 47 pounds at 27 out of a mild r/d longbow. I`m not hunting Elk but I will be taking downward shots at Whitetails and pigs and as we all know an exit wound is a must.Like I said the shoe is on the other foot now and thinking back on my advise given to others maybe does`nt seem so sound to me now.Its all about confidence and do I feel confident shooting a snuffer from a 47 lb bow for ME. No I don`t. I have some no mercy heads and woodsmans that I feel good about . I could probably go up 5 pounds or so but since shooting less poundage my accurracy has improved greatly actually better than its ever been. My shoulder and neck don`t hurt after shooting and the whole experience is more enjoyable.Maybe this drop in pounds will allow me to shoot many more years ...I hope so.
Back to the original question about 50 pounds killing Elk I must say...
1. I`ve never killed one
2. More is better if the accurracy is the same.
3. If I had the chance to go elk hunting this year I would go with the above mentioned equipment. 47 @ 27 550 grain arrow no mercy head.
4. If an Elk got within 25 yards broadside ...he would be in trouble.
6.We tend to over think things sometimes. Its really simple ..know your equipment...know your limitations...don`t push either...be honest with yourself...And HAVE FUN...RC
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Didn't fred eichler kill all the big game species in north america with 54lbs at his draw and around a 500gr arra? :deadhorse:
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Ratatat,
I think there's one or two posting on this thread that aren't shooting a line of BS.
You do have elk in PA.We don't have elk in GA. I've hunted them, though. I got in my car and went where they have elk.
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The idea that we have different setups for different animals is to me a little odd. You don't see golfers changing clubs, or baseball players using a different bat because the ball park they're playing in today requires the ball be hit further to get over the fence.
A guy a lot older and smarter than me told me that successful bowhunting was the elimination of mistakes.
Setting yourself up to hunt one bow and arrow for whitetails, then travel out west with a different setup for elk or moose or brown bear or sheep- you're working against the very thing you're always trying to do- groove your swing.
Your hair-covered computer then has to keep track of which setup your using and remember the flight of the arrow differently from your home setup- a perfect scenario under pressure to then go on automatic and shoot that grooved swing-and make a bad hit.
I shoot the same thing at squirrels and turkeys I would use on a moose. Dead is dead. The turkey doesn't care that my arrow goes 1 foot past him or 50 feet- he's still dead. Neither does the elk.
The margins for error are big in our game- and bad things happen to good people all the time.
I run an archery hunting operation and I've seen firsthand quite a few shots on game made by a fairly sizeable crowd of people.
You are right- all of you-when you say accuracy is he most important thing. But accuracy with an unsharpened broadhead?
We have had perhaps 120 guys come through HH. Some know sharp, and some are struggling. There's no doubt in my mind that the biggest hurdle for a lot of the guys who switch from compounds, where they use presharpened heads- to stickbows- is learning what is and isn't sharp and how to get them and keep them that way.
I'm not putting anyone down here....I'm saying if you have no reference by which to judge "sharp" then how do you know? Ron at KME is working on something that will aid even the most tender-footed person to get them hunting sharp, and I hope he gets it put together.
How about a medium weight bow and arrow combination that strikes a bone like a moose rib? There's lots of variables and situations that occur in the field- take all these variables and more into account, then add game movement into the mix- and the potential for something unplanned can quickly become reality.
I want to build up to, and hunt with, the most lethal combination of bow and arrow I can get to with comfort and accuracy- not work down to what I can shoot most accurately- which is a 30 lb bow and knitting needle arrows. A guy on here posted that a woman shot a 400 lb hog with a 32# bow and killed it. I don't think I'd recommend people use 32 lb bows for hogs, based on that occurrence.
I've had lots of guys hit pigs at Hog Heaven- we've had two or three pass-throughs in the bunch. A hog is a far cry from an elk or moose.
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Well, I ain't never shot an elk or moose but I did stay at a Comfort Inn??
I am shooting 43@27 with a mild R/D longbow and 475 arrow. I feel that for whitetail, black bear, hogs, rabbit squirrel?? this should be enough for 99% of anything I will get to hunt.
If I ever do get to elk/ moose hunt I will bump it up 7-8 pounds in weight and feel o.k. about it.
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I shoot 50 pounds for everything here in Alaska. Yeah yeah I know and I also use 3 bladed woodsmans, horrors!!!!!!! have taken multiple moose and a very nice griz. Lots of black bears etc. Guess I am a product of the late 50s and 60s when the normal draw weight was about 42 pounds for deer in Utah. I have never seen the need for blowing 30 yards out the other side of an animal. Granted, two holes give more of a blood trail, but an animal that is running with a sharp broadhead slashing around in his chest isn't going far. I've had non passthroughs that look like a vegimatic got turned loose in the chest cavity. Nuff said
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Originally posted by Bill Sant:
I I've had non passthroughs that look like a vegimatic got turned loose in the chest cavity. Nuff said
Ain't that just Kewl How that werks?
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:coffee:
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Just to make clear I am not just a heavy bow shooter. I have two bows in my sig below 60# and three more not listed(a 35#,40# and 45#). Now these weights are at the 28" standard not my draw length of 30" which they would be heavier. Matter of fact the BW SAII in my sig I listed at 54# because that is what it is at my draw length. The bow was actually tillerd 49#@28". So with a long draw length most of your bows with me drawing them will be up about 5lbs or more. I also stated outright at the begining of my post that 50# would work for the question at hand and just to clear things up I see nothing wrong with lighter weight bows. I too enjoy shooting them.
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keep in mind that 50lbs typically is for a 28" draw. Fred Eichler has over a 30" draw so his 54lb palmer is really shooting an arrow with closer to 60lbs of force. If you have a shorter than 28" draw, you will not be shooting 50lbs.
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Even though this thread my have been :deadhorse: for many of you, I've very much appreciated the conversation. When I posted the OP, I was down to one bow...a Martin Hunter my wife gave me when we first married. It's 50@28. Now I have a Dye Medicine Point, also 50@28, on the rack, and will place an order for a Shrew early next week. I was trying to decide, when I started the thread, if I was going to return to the 60-65# bows, or stay in the 50-55# range. Looks like 50-55# is the winner. :D
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I have read that Fred Eichler's bows are 54# at his draw length of 30.5".
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just to be a devils advocate here. Fred done it, but we ain't Fred. Also, I saw some of his videos and pass thru's, or even (from the looks) penetration most of the way was not an everytime occurrance.
Ray golfers don't drive carts full of so many clubs they need a bag to hold them all. . .? That's not switching around ?
ChuckC
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The old saying was "Beware of the man who shoots only one rifle." Shoot the bow you like at the legal-to-hunt-with poundage you're comfortable with and practice, practice, practice. Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
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Also on the golf thing, I have known a few pro golfers back when I was playing and what you don't see is that at every event there is a club pro van there and the pros do have their clubs tweaked differently at every course depending on the playability of that course. And no, they don't use the same clubs you buy either they are custom made for them buy their sponsors. This isn't the case in the lower ranks but just the pros.