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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: LBR on September 03, 2010, 10:36:00 PM

Title: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: LBR on September 03, 2010, 10:36:00 PM
After much consideration, we've decided on doing a Volume II of "Doin' the Twist".  We have a lot of ideas, but would like to hear from folks--whether you have seen it or not.

What would you like to see?  Better shots of existing information, other info. that wasn't covered, or???  

I don't see any reason this one can't be 2 hours of info. like the first, but it's not going to be a remake of I.  A few surprises I already know of, along with better equipment and more experienced folks doing the filming.  

Feel free to call or e-mail--all opinions are wanted.

Chad
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: Pat B on September 03, 2010, 10:45:00 PM
Chad, just be sure to film it in August in Mississippi! The mopping scenes are priceless. d;^)
  Looking forward to "...Twist II".
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: Pete W on September 03, 2010, 10:47:00 PM
The first Vid taught me to make strings, and I have been quite happy with the results.
  A bit on making padded loops in the next one might be helpfull to some folks.
  A lot of frustration comes from not getting the right amount of back twists, more help here might be good.
 Another place of help to the new string builder could be a bit on serving sizes for diferent strand counts , and  arrow nock types, carbon/ wood .
 And giudelines on making loop sizes.

  Do you think you can suffer more from the heat when you do the next one?
 LOL

 Pete
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: LBR on September 03, 2010, 10:53:00 PM
Thanks Pete--that's what we're looking for!

One thing is for sure--we ain't going to film this one in 100+ degree temps!  I dang near died...my plans were to use the air-conditioned conferance room, but I was out-voted.  I was also out-voted when it came to who was going to tote all the equipment, chairs, that ridiculously heavy table, etc. down the hill for filming, and back up at the end of the day.....I may have a gun with me next time, just to be sure my vote counts...
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: Johnny UMAA on September 04, 2010, 12:13:00 AM
Yep...I would be interested in the "padded" loop info as that seems to be the part that stumps me about getting started.
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: LBR on September 04, 2010, 07:17:00 AM
Quote
Yep...I would be interested in the "padded" loop info as that seems to be the part that stumps me about getting started.  
We show how to pad the loops in I, but don't go into a lot of detail.  I guess we should spend more time on it?  It's really simple.

Johnny, if you are around NE MS, give me a holler.  You can come by my shop and I'll show you in person.
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: Gil Verwey on September 04, 2010, 07:22:00 AM
Not only padded loops for flemish strings, but also endless loop. When I am done with my endless padded loop string they wind up looking like wooly bugger flys!

Thanks
Gil
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: Stiks-n-Strings on September 04, 2010, 07:27:00 AM
My biggest problem is getting the string the right length on the first try.

 Doin' the Twist is where I learned how to build my strings.

 I agree with Pete W. plus I would like to know the difference in serving materials as well. and maybe a little piece on tyed on knocks instead of brass ones.

 Stiks
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: SL on September 04, 2010, 07:59:00 AM
Pretty much what Pete W said.
I also think a bit mire detail about where to start the loops so the string is the correct length would be good-that for me took some trial and error until I got it figured out.
SL
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: LBR on September 04, 2010, 08:19:00 AM
This is exactly what we need to hear.  Keep it coming!
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: LostNation_Larry on September 04, 2010, 08:52:00 AM
Chad,

My wife gets frustrated at string length.  She recently made two strings that were supposed to be the same length.  One came out to 55" and the other came out to 56".  How does that happen?  It seems you would have to twist quite a bit more on one or make some mistake.  On top of that you have to make an educated guess on how much it will stretch.  And all materials stretch.  How do you estimate stretch  (ok, I know it is really creep not stretch) on a string?
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: LBR on September 04, 2010, 11:47:00 AM
Quote
My wife gets frustrated at string length. She recently made two strings that were supposed to be the same length. One came out to 55" and the other came out to 56". How does that happen? It seems you would have to twist quite a bit more on one or make some mistake. On top of that you have to make an educated guess on how much it will stretch. And all materials stretch. How do you estimate stretch (ok, I know it is really creep not stretch) on a string?
Good questions!  I'll give it a try.....

There are lots of variables with making strings--especially flemish.  First, the variables in the material itself--the stretch/creep can vary some from one color to the next, even one spool to the next.  It can vary a LOT from one type of material to the next.

We can vary too, without noticing.  For instance, say you are calm, relaxed, maybe even sleepy, and make a string.  Later, you make another, suppossedly identical, but you are agitated, excited, in a hurry, nervous, etc.  Usually when we are excited or otherwise "wound up", we have a tendency to twist the bundles tighter.  It doesn't seem like much, but it can make a big difference.  Add that to little variances in material, measurements that aren't dead-on....it adds up quick.  

I measure everything.  I measure to get my starting point for the first loop, then when it's done I measure to find where to start the second.  Eliminate as many variables as possible.  Even doing that, you may have to re-make a string once in a while, but not nearly as often.

All materials do stretch--I agree 100%.  Even 450+, which BCY advertises (or at least used to--I haven't checked lately) as having the least stretch/creep of any material on the market, stretches.  Even in an endless string.  Add to that the fact that they don't always stretch the same amount, and it gets complicated.  That, to me, is one of the big advantages of flemish strings--more adjustable (both ways).  Along with different stretch/creep rates between materials, you have to take into account different strand counts and different draw weights.  It can make you scratch your head quite a bit!

The only way I know to learn how to estimate it is with practice, and taking notes along the way.  That's one reason I don't even try to carry every string material on the market.  I narrowed it down to the ones that customers call for the most, and work the best;  then I learn as much as I can about them.  I don't know of any shortcuts here--sorry.  Thanks for some excellent questions--I'm taking notes!

Chad
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: AKM on September 04, 2010, 12:43:00 PM
'Doin The Twist' taught me to make strings. Another tip that I got from it was when installing cat whiskers, just using one piece of rubber folded over instead of two pieces.
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: Turkeys Fear Me on September 04, 2010, 02:18:00 PM
If possible, pay special attention to showing how to make the loops correctly so they don't twist the limbs.  Thanks.  ;)
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: stevewills on September 04, 2010, 04:16:00 PM
how bout after its made show it on the bow and how to make it more quiet and brace height,kinda setting the bow up for the string...alot of new people would love this info
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: LBR on September 04, 2010, 05:17:00 PM
Quote
 If possible, pay special attention to showing how to make the loops correctly so they don't twist the limbs. Thanks.  
ROTF......we do plan to dismiss some fables and old wives tales in it.

Tuning hints will definately be a part of it--thanks!
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: Frank Warnke on September 04, 2010, 08:55:00 PM
Learned a lot from the first one and look forward to another.  Need to watch it again soon.  If it was not covered in the first one, I would like to understand the difference in all the new string material.
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: Ground Hunter on September 04, 2010, 09:30:00 PM
What LNLarry said.  for me length is a moving target.  Also, some shots of bad strings - what NOT TO DO - like what over twisting really looks like.  The other vid. was great by the way!
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: LBR on September 05, 2010, 12:07:00 AM
Thanks again!  We should be able to give a basic run-down on the different materials.  I like the idea of the "bad" strings.  Maybe show one with something wrong and tell what most likely caused the problem, and how to correct it.

Thanks for the good word!

Chad
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: AdamH on September 05, 2010, 01:23:00 AM
Heck, I've gotta get Volume #1 first !! But Im really looking forward to the strings I've got coming ... Thanks Much, Real Nice Talkin with ya Chad ...
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: mrpenguin on September 05, 2010, 08:24:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Pete W:
The first Vid taught me to make strings, and I have been quite happy with the results.
  A bit on making padded loops in the next one might be helpfull to some folks.
  A lot of frustration comes from not getting the right amount of back twists, more help here might be good.
 Another place of help to the new string builder could be a bit on serving sizes for diferent strand counts , and  arrow nock types, carbon/ wood .
 And giudelines on making loop sizes.

  Do you think you can suffer more from the heat when you do the next one?
 LOL

 Pete
I second Pete.
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: Burnsie on September 05, 2010, 08:58:00 AM
If there are any special tricks or techniques to consider when building skinny strings which has been a hot topic the last year or two.
Maybe a general guide of what the minimum strand count is for different weight bows and different materials.
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: LBR on September 05, 2010, 01:35:00 PM
I don't particularly care for really skinny strings, but I'm sure we'll cover those as well.  A few things to consider are:  they stretch/creep considerably more, especially on a heavier draw weight;  they are much less adjustable (the twists won't shorten or lengthen it nearly as much), and in the case of sharp objects (like putting a broadhead tipped arrow back in a bow quiver at dusk) they are less durable.  We plan to discuss performance differences and such also.

As always, the input is very much appreciated!

Chad
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: LBR on November 26, 2010, 11:11:00 AM
We're getting closer.  Filming is set for spring (sometime after hunting season).  Lots of the loose ends have been sewn up.  It's a definate "go".  

If there's something you'd like to see covered, now is the time to chime in.  We're working on the "script" right now.

Chad
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: metsastaja on November 26, 2010, 12:00:00 PM
Loved and learned a great deal from the first.

Short section on how to tie adjustable nocks on the serving.

Looking forward to next DVD.
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: trad_bowhunter1965 on November 26, 2010, 12:14:00 PM
Chad your first DVD was awesome I learned alot from it, I am like alot of guys and gals I would like to see more on loop size and back twists. Blake
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: Steve H. on November 26, 2010, 12:26:00 PM
Teach people to make string loops for normal, as they should be built, thin tipped bows.......no loops so big that they fall off the tip or you can use the string to lasso a steer.....

; ^ )
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: LBR on November 26, 2010, 01:15:00 PM
Quote
Teach people to make string loops for normal,...  
Ain't nothing normal about you Steve!

Thanks again for everyone's input--I believe this one is going to be considerably better than the first.  We learned a lot when filming that one, and I've learned a bit more about strings in the six years since filming it.  Plus, as promised earlier, there's going to be some suprise bonuses to this one that will add a lot to the content.
Title: Re: Strings--Need Opinions (lots of them)
Post by: Missouri CK on November 30, 2010, 12:13:00 AM
Chad,

I learned the basic technique from your first DVD and I've had fun making some strings.  Unfortunately for everyone that I have made that works I've had several that don't. So my problem is the lack of repeatable string making. I've written the directions down step by step and have really tried to get my twisting technique down to where it is repeatable i.e. the same tension and degree of twisting and numbers of backtwist.  

The bad strings I have made tend to have a common problem.  One end looks perfect and the other looks like two ropes twisted together that could unravel at any moment and sometimes does.
From what I've read on this site, this is due to the fact that the back twist in the body of the string is not correct.  The problem is that I've heard its either too much back twist or not enough. This is a common problem so I would definately ask your video to show how to fix this problem.

What I would like to know is how to determine the "formula" for the number of back twists for the different number of strand strings. How did you guys come up witht the number 33 or whatever it is in the video?

In my case I have a two bundle string with 6 strands in each bundle how many back twist is that going to need. My loops are about 17 twist to create.  After the loops, I twist each bundle 5 times, then start dropping stands, then twist each bundle, then drops 2 stands until I'm out of strands to drop.  Then each bundle gets 5 more twist each.  By my counting that is 24 twist after the loops have been made or 41 twist if you count the loops.    

Hope that makes sense.  

I would echo the comments about showing the most common mistakes made in string making, what they look like at the end product, and how to avoid that same mistake.

Thanks again for taking the time to work on a product like this. I will definitely be purchasing this video.

Chris