Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: aquafang on October 31, 2010, 07:51:00 PM
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What's everyones opinion of the woodsman broadheads?
I'll start my saying, I'm kind of dissappointed in my results in the last 3 seasons. The first kill was a small buck which i trailed for 150 yds before recovering. i've had a couple non recovered deer in which I "swear" that I hit right perfectly in the lung area. found blood for a while then just quit. Last night I got a good kill with one. deer went about 50 yds. and fell dead. just comparing the last 3 seasons with these broadheads as to the usual 2 blades I've always used, I've had better quicker cleaner kills with 2 blade heads...........JMO
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I really like them. I've had good blood trails and quick kills the past three seasons I've used them. (ELK hogs mule deer and whitetails) but that is my experience. Joe
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Can't comment on them however, when I got into this Trad. shooting one of my friends who has been shooting Trad for many years said to " just use two bladed broadheads because they kill the best ".
Ken
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are you getting them shaving sharp? no or little blood almost sounds like a head not as sharp as it could be
a broadhead of any kind through the lungs is gonna put one down fairly quickly, with that said i had a friend say the same thing you are saying, after 2 lost deer,with what he said were good hits, he hammered the remaining ones flat and went back to a 2 blade. i am not sure he was getting them razor sharp eventhough he said he was. but since going back to a 2 blade he has done well. that is a mid 50lb wt long bow 600 gr arrows.. i believe there are 2 degrees of sharp one is shaving and feels sharp enough the other is a truely scalpel sharp edge the later will cut alot more that the other brushed by
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I cant get them sharp, I dont know why but i find it nearly impossible to sharpen the damn things, I can get two blades shaving sharp. My buddy has some big 160 grn. Snuffers that he gets really sharp, i might get some of them.
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Buckeye, have you let your buddy try to sharpen the WW's? Same manufacturer as those Snuffers he can get so sharp. Tha Wensel Woodsman is a PROVEN broahead that has killed everything from Aardvark to Zebra! They work just fine.
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If I were a 3 blade guy that is what I would use. :thumbsup:
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It ain't the broadhead!!!
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Most of my trad kills have been with a Woodsman, I always filed them sharp enough and I have never had a blood trail more than 100 yds ending at the dead critter. I have switched to the VPA's with no vents but its the same design.
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My experience has been very good with them. They have left excellent blood trails, that have been short as well. Out of the 6 deer 3 tipped over in sight, the others I heard hit the ground.
It did take a bit to get used to sharpening them. I work them down to 1000 grit wet dry paper, the edge looks like a mirror.
That being said I can still lightly touch the Woodsman heads. I use STOS heads when I use a 2 blade head, I get them spooky sharp. If you lightly touch them they cut you. It has to be the edge angle. The Woodsman still leave a better blood trail.
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I'm with Charlie on this...there is more going on here than the head you are using.
2, 3, or 4 blade it does not matter...sharp and shot placement does the job everytime.
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I would recommend them!!!! They take some work to get sharp. KYArcher
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I'm with Charlie and Chris on this one.
Eric
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Don't beat me up but I have had bad experiences with them -remember you asked .
Poor penteration and yes they were SHAVING SHARP - wouldn't have hunted with them if they weren't .
NEVER got 2 holes in a deer with bows from 53-57#'s . Almost went back to a compound because of lack of pentetraion from them .
They bend easy - way to easy .
I recommend a good 2 blade magnus or zwickey !
Sorry I know some of you woodsman fans just dropped your candy in the dirt but it is just my opinion.
Jack
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Even with a moderate set-up, I tend to belive that any shot in the boiler room of a deer will prove devasting with any sharp broadhead.
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I'm also with Charlie and Chris. I've had good results using them.
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I killed a buck on 10-30-10 with a woodsman elite and I got 14inch of penetration on him. That is a 512gr arrow going 170fps and I like the low profile more 3 to 1 ratio of the woodsman. It made a real nice round hole in him instead of a slit style hole wich I like better. I did test with 2 and 4 blade heads and they penetrated within 1/4 inch of a 2 blade head. I can say that I will always have them in my quiver. Widow
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Thanks for all your opinions. Maybe it is just a coincidence the past few years when I started using them. My shot placements have been as good as any other of my kills in all my years. Maybe it is a sharpening issue. Maybe I just don' t have the hang of how to sharpen a 3 blade?
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The deer I shot with my WW PILED UP in about 60 yds .It broke a rib on entry and broke the rib on the oppisite side but did not exit.Was shooting 55# bow.Have to agree though it takes a bit to get them sharp.
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I'm shooting 47# and I'm getting pass through shots 8 outta 10 with woodsman heads. Though I'm shooting 681 gr arrows I've busted spines and came through the bottom of the boiler room. I think its all just personal preference.
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They work great for me, have killed elk (pass thru), mule deer and hogs with them. That is with a low 50s pound bow. I think I get better bloodtrails than a 2 blade too.
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I shoot recurves 48@29 and get consistent pass-throughs with them.
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I've only shot a turkey with mine so far. I use them because they've been the only heads I can get sharp enough to be comfortable shooting and animal with. But, that's my opinion...
-Jeremy :coffee:
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Well I shoot 2 blades too, but on this hunt I was using a very special arrow and used a Woodsman Elite, 58 at 29 inch longbow. Shot was 27 yards and a got into a bit of the elbow as the arrow hit. The broadhead went deep enough for me on a 600# animal :)
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r296/wapiti792/WY10026.jpg)
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Well, I know this guy here has a high enough opinion of them that he still uses them for everything even though he doesn't own the company anymore...
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/osminski/Wensel%20Photos/69ad8400.png)
Same goes for Gene...
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I've killed a lot of deer with the old style Woodsman.
I simply clipped the needle point off, and was good to go.
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all woodsman kills, all passthrus...
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/smallwood1972/Colorado/Sammy%202010%20colorado/2010cohunt016.jpg)
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/smallwood1972/Sammy%20in%20Nebraska/100_2161-1.jpg)
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/smallwood1972/Sammy%20in%20Nebraska/100_2152-2.jpg)
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/smallwood1972/Sammy%20in%20Nebraska/o8nedoe1.jpg)
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/smallwood1972/Sammy%20in%20Nebraska/08nedoe2-1.jpg)
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They're terrible.
I've started a Woodsman recycling program. PM me for my shipping address. Wouldn't want you to throw'em in the trash....might butcher the garbage man.
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It could be arrow flight causing the problem. A loss of kenitic energy maybe. Woodsmans kill dead!
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I like them alot. I really like the way they fly. Ive got a big 14 or so inch Nicholson file that is wide enough to lay 2 blades on at a time and I cant imgine a head being any easier to get sharp. I got some ready for this season that were stored for atleast 2 seasons as i was on the single bevel bandwagon last year and with that file, medium and real fine stones had them shaving in no time. I bet if anyone is having trouble getting WW sharp they should switch to a good aggressive file wide enough to lay 2 blades flat on for the 1st step.
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DB beat me to it but if his mail box gets full I will take all the bad heads you do not want anymore - I will even pay shipping. Actually I have some Zwickey eskimos that I will trade 1-1 if you like.
Bob Urban
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Iv shot a lot of game with the Woodsmans i think it is a good head but i dont like the vents. For a 3 blade iv switched to the VPA terminators i prefer no vents, solid and they are stronger then the Woodsman.
whatever you decide get it razor sharp and put it in the right spot.
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Woodsmans are great heads, IMO. I've shot or trailed 4 deer taken with them. Longest trail was maybe 60 yards. I prefer a heavier head like the VPA Terminators, but wouldn't hesitate to shoot a Woodsman if that is what tuned the best.
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Jack W...if you can't pass through a whitetail with a WW....you might have other problems besides the head. Not being a wise guy...just that I've killed everything from bunnies to 2000# bison with them and a load of hogs to boot....NEVER had a penetration problem ...not ONCE! And, whitetail are not that hard to blow through. You should be able to blow slap through whitetails with a FOUR blade out of a 57# bow all day long. I passed through a 300# hog with a bow 3 pound heavier with a Zwickey Delta 4 blade....MUCH tougher that a whitetail.
I also pyramid the tip to make it stronger....so I've never bent on either. I've dinged up the tip on a few shooting bunnies and hitting rocks after the shot though...and I just redo the tip and use them for small game.
Also....
Originally posted by njloco:
Can't comment on them however, when I got into this Trad. shooting one of my friends who has been shooting Trad for many years said to " just use two bladed broadheads because they kill the best ".
Ken
This is a FALSE statement. No one broadhead is the most lethal on all game and every shot scenario. Broadheads are tools, and you gotta pic the one that best suits your set up and the game you are planning to shoot. Just like off road tires, there is no one tire that dominates all terrains. This is just another bhead thread that means nothing and solves nothing unfortunately.
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I've had good results with WW's on deer and bear.
Had a bear drop in 20 yds.
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Could someone post a pic of a woodsman with a "pyramid" tip?
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Never mind the back modification....this is one of my small game heads, and I modify the back of the blades so they slide out of the back quiver easier.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/IMG_3121.JPG)
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Have had great results on alot of big game animals. I also pyramid the tip to make it stronger.
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I've killed 7 animals (2 caribou and 5 whitetails) with woodsmans with bows from 47# to 57# longbows and recurves and have had all complete pass thrus. Once you get them "worked down" they sharpen easily and touch up with little effort. I am using VPA 200 grainers now because I like the woodsman design but prefer the heavier weight. I do use a relatively heavy arrow, usually 585 gr. to 625 gr. Good luck! Mike
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I never tried them but I watched a friend bend enough of them to know that tip is week. Noisy things from time to time. I remember that he had a couple that would whistle through the air.
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Originally posted by thunder1:
I never tried them but I watched a friend bend enough of them to know that tip is week. Noisy things from time to time. I remember that he had a couple that would whistle through the air.
Yep....he must not have pyramided them....the are weak out of the pack and need to modify them...which is a cinch to so while sharpening. I've yet to have one whistle...but then again, I get mine mounted straight.
Now maybe the thread is not worthless after all....we now know to modify the tip, and mount them straight...which all broadheads should be mounted straight anyway right?
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(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee30/joeashton/100_2109.jpg) (http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee30/joeashton/100_2157.jpg) (http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee30/joeashton/100_2443.jpg) (http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee30/joeashton/100_2459.jpg)
Yes I do like woodsman
Joe
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I used them on deer and bear for a couple of seasons about 10 years back. Worked well, but just blew through everything I shot and good blood trails... Went to a bit wider head for thin skinned critters... bigger hole makes for more blood on the ground and shorter trails...
Still have a bunch and wouldn't hesitate to use them if I had any concerns with penetration from the wider heads I'm using on bigger critters.
Oh, and yep, I agree the tip needs to be worked over a bit to get rid of the "needle" point or it will fold over easily.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/Bowhunter4life/21Bear02.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/Bowhunter4life/jdeer3.jpg)
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Ty ,
I was thinking the same thing Terry Green and a few others have mentioned, maybe your arrows aren't tuned to your bow setup so your not getting the penetration that you should be.
How do your bare shafts fly? Here is some good info on tuning...
http://www.acsbows.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/tuninglongbowsandrecurves.pdf
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Well for those of you who don't like em you can send em my way.......
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I've never had a penetration problem with them and they've always done a geat job.
Now I did buy some of the new design this year and for some reason they "hiss" when I shoot them. I've never had that issue before and I've tried them on every bow I own with a bunch of different arrow combinations (thinking maybe it's a flight issue) but to no avail. I've tried undersplined, oversplined, perfectly splined - those that I've hunted with for years - including the old WW, but these guys just make noise.
I know some say live with it (I've heard it referred to as the "hiss of death") but I spend too much time trying to make my bows quiet to accept it. And for some reason I can't bring myself to spend that kind of money on a broadhead then I have to change the design.
I'm not sure what to do with them.
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the new elites that they are selling are some super heads. I havent had a chance to run the business end into a deer but, I have complete confidence they will do the job. They are much easier to sharpen than the snuffers in my opinion, and seem to fly a little better to. Just my thoughts.
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I don't have an opinion on WW. A fella told me something once that stuck.... "only 2 kinds of bh sharp ones and the ones you practice with."
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I prefer to hunt with two blade heads, but if I were to hunt with a 3 blade head it would be a WW. Killed a nice deer with a razor sharp WW a few years ago with my Massie "Longhorn". Good penetration and good blood trail. I found the WW to be easy to sharpen using the Charlie Lamb technique here on TG. :thumbsup:
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Terry is right in my opinion. I'll add that most available broadheads are good if they are really sharp. Get a WW sharp and you won't be disappointed with the results.
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Get them sharp, put them where they belong, and they will leave an incredible blood trail. One could say the same for most broadheads. It is an excellent, proven design, as is the Zwickey Delta, Grizzly, etc. They've all been around for quite some time and all have taken mountains of game. It comes down to personal choice and which you can best get scary sharp.
As George L. Herter used to say, "They kill stuff dead, and you can't get deader than dead."
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I began using the WW heads 3 years ago. Two bucks I killed with them were a pass through and the deer died within 60 and 80 yds yds. 2 weeks ago I shot another buck. The shot was at about 7yds but I hit a bit too far forward. The head penetrated just behind the nape of the neck and drove into the spinal column knocking the deer right down. I had to finish it off with one to the chest. I'm impressed with these heads in the way they penetrate, cut and fly. Over the years I've used Bear heads, Rocky, Wasp, Muzzy, and so on. I don't see myself swtiching from the WW heads. My 2 cents
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Originally posted by Bill Turner:
I prefer to hunt with two blade heads, but if I were to hunt with a 3 blade head it would be a WW. Killed a nice deer with a razor sharp WW a few years ago with my Massie "Longhorn". Good penetration and good blood trail. I found the WW to be easy to sharpen using the Charlie Lamb technique here on TG. :thumbsup:
Where can I find this technique? I'd like to try it. thanks
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Aquafang... here's the link to the tutorial in the "How To" section.
Wensel Sharpening (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000096)
Lots of good stuff on that forum for those who haven't visited it.
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The only "problem" I've ever had with the WW is the common tip weakness which makes them prone to curling. As Terry explained...a very easy fix. I would be using them except for the fact that I got a really good deal on 3 doz. Razorcaps and fell in love with them. They are basically the same head as the WW except they are stainless and weight adjustable (I really like stainless steel).
The very first thought that I had when I started to read this was the issue of sharpness. I suspect that many lost animals are lost to less than really sharp heads. My goal is to get a head razor/shaving sharp. I know guys who kill lots of game using two blade heads or even multi blade heads that prefer the file sharpened blade that is somewhat rough and don't really shave hair. They get blood trails but IMO the trails are way too long. The shortest trails I have seen are almost always with broadheads that are shaving sharp. Just this year my wife and I both killed fork horns. Both shots were less than optimal. Laura thought she hit her buck in the back of the lungs. She had actually hit him in front of the right hip. The Razorcap penetrated all the way thru and poked out the off side shoulder taking out the liver and left lung. The deer lived about 5 seocnds after the hit and the blood trail was just fine. My buck was hit right in back of the liver. Next morning we found him after he left us a nice blood trail. The reason I think is that the heads were extremely sharp. Get a Woodsman to shave and shooting straight and even a borderline hit is going to give you great penetration and enough blood to find the animal. At least that has been my experience.
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What good is a dead critter if there is no blood trail to find them? I used 2 blades for years and thankfully most of the animals died in sight. I was lucky to find the ones that didn't. I never once had a blood trail with a 2 blade and that's why I switched. With the WW I always had a blood trail a blind man could follow, but most of the critters fell where I could see them.
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I've never had a problem taking game with them. I've gonethrough tough shields on some nice boar hogs and the blood trails have been great. I prefer the muzzy phanton nowsince I need a 200gr head.
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Awesome heads. Killed 5 deer with them all passthroughs with a 60# longbow. I usually don't mess with the tip until it curls. And when I say tip curling I don't mean the whole thing, it's just the fine needle point that bends over. When it happens just pyramid it real quick and you won't have that problem again.
The Elites I'd imagine are tougher than the originals. I've tried the VPA's and they are quicker to sharpen and are solid as a rock.
Regardless, shot placement and sharp kills period.
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Last night I sharpened a 3 pack of WW originals I just received from 3Rivers. I followed the 3Rivers instructions which seem to match Charlie's pretty close. The first step on my 14" file resulted in a LOT of metal being taken off to get a flat edge all the way around. I had to work them REALLY hard to get past the first step.
After that, I worked them on medium and fine stones, followed by a diamond hone and a leather stop. I took the needle point off as well.
Half of my left forearm is now bald. The method apparently works.
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They have worked good for me too. Since reading this post I`ve decided to put some on and shoot my next critter with them.Lord Willing,RC.
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Wensels seem easier for me to get an edge on than the "original" Snuffers and I like betteras a little smaller too.
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All Woodsmens, all the time. Going on my 4th deer with the same Woodsman head on my arrow in my number one hole. I've done it several times, too, before I lost the head. Makes the cost about $2 each. Try doing that with a Rage or any other number of broad heads at $10 or more each!
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Terry we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one :)
Been doing this bowhunting thing a long time , just like you . Seen this argument many times, you use your woodsman's and I'll use a zwickey or magnus 2 or 4 blade . That's why they make more than one broadhead , difference in opinions .
Good Huntin'
Jack
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Jack....no argument....if you can't pass through a whitetail with a WW out of a 57# bow...something else is wrong....fact, not an opinion. You might should look at the set up you are using and your arrow flight.
I mostly shoot Zwickey Delta 4 blades BTW. Much more cutting surfaces than a WW and I still blow through whitetails. Whitetails are nothing but a paper grocery bag filled with shaving cream...and a few tinker toys thrown in. The hogs I've passed through with WWs were much thicker and tuffer than whitetails.
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I shot a buck with one at 12 yards max several years ago. The bow pulled 87#. I watched the arrow go in and the deer run away. Never saw either of them again. I never was able to get them sharp!. Stick with a Swickey or a Magnus 2 blade.
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70#@28 longbow....drawn to 27.5...burried to the fletch.....80 recovery.
(http://tradgang.com/tg/images5/buff3.jpg)
You folks that can't get through a measly whitetail with a WW really need to evaluate your equipment. (I've never shot a whitetail with a WW. I always run more and WIDER blades slap through them).
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Terry have tried everything, my arrows fly perfect bareshaft to 30 yards.
I know the Woodsmans are good heads -just not for me .
I stick em in the dirt on the other side with 2 blades and 4 blades . Plus I have 2 holes for better blood trails, which I do not get with 3 blades .
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Terry ,
Not to go off the post but what did something like that cost to mount? and how did you get the wife let it in the house?
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Never had a problem with a WW, and certainly never had penetration problems with them.
Unlike Terry, I have shot a few deer with them. I luv them!
I'm pretty sure if I had to choose just one BH to use the rest of my life, for everything I'd have the chance to hunt....it would be one of the Woodsman BH's.
But since I use enough horse powere for even bigger...for deer and other thin skinned critters, I'll be shooting big Ol' Snuffer 160's!!
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Thanks for the photo of your WW broadhead Terry.
It makes the point alteration crystal clear.
I like what you've done to the rear of the blade, also.
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Easy to sharpen, fly great, and leave a good blood trail. That has been my experience with the Woodsman broadheads. This has been on deer, coyotes, and turkeys. Dead is dead, and they work for me.
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the wensel, like so many well designed and built broadheads, will kill any animal on planet earth.
it is very easy to sharpen for lethal results.
it is my most fave and productive broadhead.
as always, the real issue is the bowhunter, not the broadhead.
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I've tried others, but I love the WW. I think they sharpen easily, and like Terry said if you hit something in the right spot you should blow right through it.
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I have been dying to use the latest graemlin and this thread is the perfect one to use it on so here goes........ :deadhorse:
I totally agree with Guru..... Great head and if it was down to only 1 head you could ever use or have in your quiver it would be a WW. I too am using 160 Snuffers this year cause I know even they will blow right thru a whitetail as sharp as I got em !!! I have almost posted several times on 3 blade sharpening threads and told everyone to just send them to me for sharpening but then again I am trying to raise 2 kids here so time is precious. So easy you could do it blindfolded ! Never had broadheads as sharp as my WW's and Snuffers. I actually enjoy sharpening them just to watch the hairs pop off !
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Just started shooting 160gr Woodsman Elites and found them to be the quietest and most accurate (zero wobble on spin test) broadhead I've used to date. It doesn't get any easier than shapening a three blade broadhead! One word; finish with a strop. Oh yeah, I'v never experienced any real difference with penetration between various 2 and 3 blade heads on deer and turkeys over the years.
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Dam straight "FRIEND!" Any Sharp broadhead in the lungs will kill any critter. Too dam many guys want a broadhead that will compensate for their bad shots! I like a sturdy head thats SCARY SHARP that will stand up to a marginal hit(kiss off the shoulder plate then into lung, or a deer that ducks and takes one in the spine), but it's still my job to drop the berry in the bucket! Bad blood trails are the results of bad shots, either by hapenstance or our own fear that we won't get that good shot and the critter will just walk out of our lives. Sometimes brothers ya just gotta watch their ass wave good-by,I tend to remember those deer 5 to 1 over the ones I put in the back of my truck.PICK A SPOT AND BURN A HOLE TILL THEIR HIDE IS DAM NEAR SMOKEN, THEN LET GO OF THE STRING, AHH NOT THAT'S SWEET STUFF!
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Totally agree with Terry, has to be a wobbly arrow issue. I bought some 100 grains this spring. If I can ever kill a buck I am going to give them a go on some does. I have shot them though and get a whistling noise from the vents. Not too crazy about that.