Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Jayrod on February 13, 2011, 06:27:00 PM
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Hello there guys i was just wondering whats the best arrow for knockdown power and flight i am shooting 2018 easton legacy shafts with 125 gr tips and broadheads i really want something that has some punch and durability or someone whos makes the best arrow out there also my bow is 52#@28"
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Bump anyone?
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How hard the arrow hits is mainly a factor of proper bow/arrow tuning. One thing to keep in mind is that arrows don't knock game down, the broadhead cuts them and the animal bleeds out with penetration being the key. Tuning and BH sharpness are key to good penetration. Sometimes even with a very good double lung hit, an animal can go a long ways before falling.
There are lots of good arrow brands out there right now. Personally, I'm shooting Gold Tip blems (blemished, basically factory seconds with flaws in the finish). Depending on your draw length, you should be looking at 0.500 or 0.400 deflection arrows. In the GT's those are 35/55 or 55/75, respectively. Post more information about your bow and your draw length, someone ought to give you a better idea of what you need.
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Pred,
The answer to the most durable arrow is easy, get carbons. Woods, while beautiful and traditional, break. Aluminums bend easily and require regular straightening. Eventually they can't be straightened anymore. Carbons start off straight and stay that way. Carbons are tough. I'm not saying they can't be broken but they generally outlast anything else by a large margin. Most of the carbons I've broken got that way when I get too lazy to pull arrows after shooting half a dozen or so and smack an arrow in the target with an incoming one. I'm not bragging about shooting a "Robin Hood" either. It's simply that if you shoot enough arrows into the same general spot sooner or later you will smack an arrow with an arrow.
Compound shooters mostly tune the bow to the arrow. Trad shooters mostly tune the arrow to the bow. Starting with the correct spine for your draw weight and length is basic. An arrow that flies mostly straight to the target loses less speed. An arrow that impacts the target in-line with itself penetrates better. Not that any arrow flies perfectly straight. Take a look at the high speed videos on this website. http://www.wernerbeiter.com/en/informations/index.php It's amazing that any arrow even hits the target considering how they wiggle and squirm.
An overly light arrow flies fast but doesn't necessarily penetrate well, especially when bone is hit. An overly heavy arrow flies slow and therefore drops more over a given distance but its inertia helps it penetrate. The best compromise is an arrow of 10-12 grains per pound of bow weight.
In big game hunting, a bow and arrow is nothing more than a means to deliver a broadhead into the vitals of the game animal. The broadhead does the killing. While opinions about which brand or style of broadhead is best, I'm safe in saying that bigger and sharper is better.
I hope some of this helps.
John
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there is no "best" arrow - or bow or string or quiver or whatever.
there IS a 'best arrow' for YOU - one that first and foremost flies well outta yer bow, is consistently accurate for you, and has a reasonable mass weight for the holding draw weight of yer bow.
arrow durability is something only you can answer after trying different shaft materials out - arguably, that will be carbon shafting. but do go out and experiment - your discoveries and answers are what are gonna mean the most, to you.
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Excellent advice above. When you say hard hitting, it becomes a matter of physics. Heavy weight in motion at a certain speed is harder to stop than a lighter weight at the same speed (all other conditions being equal). A dumptruck at 30mph stops slower than a VW at 30mph. IMO, trouble comes when corresponding heavy arrow weight becomes a speed adjustment that you the shooter must makes allowances for as in effective shooting distance, etc. Also why so many shoot recurves & hybrids which manage speed better.
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A heavy carbon arrow. They straighten out quick and don't seem to bend as much as wood and aluminum upon impact. My opinion
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Arrows with broadheads don't kill by knocking anything down.
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The comments about bow tuning are right on the money. The arrow with perfect flight will perform better. Don't sacrifice arrow flight for more weight, heavier points, more durable shaft, etc. Tuning is by far the most important consideration, and without that all other considerations are irrelevant.
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Hardest hitting would probably be a blunt tip on an arrow of around 13 grains per pound of draw weight. Worthless for big game, but it would hit very hard because it sheds all of it's energy very quickly on impact.
Big game hunting arrows are not designed to hit hard. They are designed to slice blood vessels.
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As said above, tuning is the most important part. If you take the time to get your bow and arrows tuned as perfectly as you can you will get much harder hitting blunts and better penetrating broadheads.
Arrows can hit hard though...
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w49/molson410/006.jpg)
This was a Heritage 350 front loaded with 300 grains of Snuffer 160 fired from a 67# Ghost recurve. Hit this deer right at the leg/shoulder joint and crushed the head and totally destroyed the shoulder.
I love wood arrows but a perfectly tuned front loaded carbon definitely has an advantage in durability and penetration.
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How long have you been shooting Traditional?
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There was a set of Carbon Express Rebels for sale in the classifieds that fit that bill. You could load them up with 250 to 300 grains up front in your set up and get a tough, affordable arrow that weighs 650 grains or better. Proper tuning is a given.
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Wood,carbon and aluminum all slice hard with a good sharp broadhead. I`ve never not recovered an animal due to what kind of arrow I was shooting or broadhead for that matter.The ones I`ve lost were because I made a bad shot.RC
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The Best arrow is the one that shoots best out of your Bow.
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Keeping in mind all the very good advice given above, I have had very good luck with Arrow Dynamics Hammerhead lite shafts for bows in the 45#-55# range. R/D longbows cut almost to centre. For example my personal bow is 62", 50# at 28" and I draw it 26 3/4". I cut the Hammerhead lite to 28" bop, standard nock and insert and a 200 grain tip. The total weight is 560 grains average and they fly great.Very easy to tune to different bows by changing the tip weight and nock point. Bob
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If you could get all other factors to equal, a carbon arrow is more rigid and would probably not bend as much as wood or Al and therefore would hit harder. I doubt the difference would be much of a factor in real life.
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If you could get all other factors to equal, a carbon arrow is more rigid and would probably not bend as much as wood or Al and therefore would hit harder.
Spine is based on inches of deflection ("bend"), so unless they have a different way of determining carbon shaft spine a wood arrow of a certain spine bends the same amount for an equal force as a carbon or aluminum arrow does. If you're shooting them from the same bow then they should have the same spine. It's just that you can get a thinner carbon shaft to be stiffer than similar diameter wood shaft, but spine is spine.
At least that's my understanding of it.
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Stump, there is quite a difference in the static spine (like a spine tester) and dynamic spine (includes how fast it recovers from bending). wood and carbon shafts of the same weight and spine hitting a dense target will noodle (wobble) differently. The wood will noodle a lot more which dissapates energy.
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Ah. Well, I figured there had to be a reason folks were using them. :thumbsup:
I know when fly-fishermen start talking about the "modulus of elasticty" of a graphite rod my eyes glaze over. I believe it would be the same effect - recovery from stressing. Makes sense.
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Having a arrow and broadhead setup that kills the game YOU just shot the quickest isn't taking away from tradition. it's the right thing to do.-me
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HEY!!!! Check out what a 50# MOHAWK with a 35/55# Gold Tip Traditional did on my 6 point buck this year!!! Of course I had A Muzzy Phantom 220 grain 4 blade broadhead on the business end. The thread is KANATI and MOHAWK Make meat!!! By BUCKY
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generally, knock down power is not in an archers vocabulary. Arrows do it a different way.
ChuckC
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I imagine that " wood will noodle more" really depends on a lot of other things. What wood it is, the spine, the shape of the arrow, where the weight is placed and other things, as does the whole premise about "noodling".
There is a lot to this game.
ChuckC
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Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
there is no "best" arrow - or bow or string or quiver or whatever.
there IS a 'best arrow' for YOU - one that first and foremost flies well outta yer bow, is consistently accurate for you, and has a reasonable mass weight for the holding draw weight of yer bow.
arrow durability is something only you can answer after trying different shaft materials out - arguably, that will be carbon shafting. but do go out and experiment - your discoveries and answers are what are gonna mean the most, to you.
That is 100% TRUE!! Well said Rob
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Originally posted by RC:
Wood,carbon and aluminum all slice hard with a good sharp broadhead. I`ve never not recovered an animal due to what kind of arrow I was shooting or broadhead for that matter.The ones I`ve lost were because I made a bad shot.RC
No doubt! Usually when you find out your arrow hits hard, it's because you hit the wrong place!!
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The best hardest hitting arrow is the one that kills the deer you just shot at.
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First post here! Great site and excellent, timely discussion. I happen to be going through the somewhat daunting task of finding the proper arrow for a new bow I have. One comment that I would give Pred80 is once you have a properly spined arrow keep them full length. Shoot them at 10yds to notice the action of the arrow and keep cutting down(hot glue inserts) until they are flying proper. I was told with this method you should be able to get any properly spined arrow to fly great. I made the mistake of buying a dozen Full Metal Jackets and cut them to what my Widow likes and it was a costly mistake. They don't shoot out of either bow.
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Well tuned heavy arrow too the bow and and a very, very sharp broad head. Put it where it belongs and what ever you shoot is dead. Anything living.
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IMO my best, most consistent, most durable arrows were the old Forgewoods, unfortunately no longer made. For wood arrows, they were heavy and virtually indestructable. Still have a few doz.under deep security!!
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Really solid advice all around. I find that the GrizzlyStik shafts from Alaska Bowhunting Company are quite phenominal. Depending on bow weight and desired shaft weight the Alaskan's or Safari's will give you a fair amount of weight and there continuous taper makes them fly well out of a lot of bows while keeping the weight forward. Just a suggestion but IMHO they are worth the price. Also, do not be affraid to experiment with weight tubes, brass inserts, heavier broadheads, or things of that nature. A heavy, well balanced arrow, with a sharp broadhead that flies well is your desired endstate and more often then not you will not find that arrow combination on the first try. Good luck.
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pred80,
Excellent advice has been provided.
There is a likely chance that you may not know exactly what you want in an arrow. Your not alone. What ever arrow set-up you choose, the arrow flight should be optimized, be of moderate wt and have a razor sharp head. Much will be learned, confidence enhanced and satisfaction obtained as you prove out your own personal design.
All the best in coming up with a lethal set-up.
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I had a reason for my question....and believe it or not...you might not always WANT the 'hardest hitting arrow'.
I know a guy that wanted that too. He showed up in TX hunting whitetails with 750 grain arrows out of a 58# bow. Bad combo. In this case, on TX whitetails if anything, you want to GAIN speed, not loose it.
I was told he shot 30 arrows with 29 misses. On the misses, by the time the arrow got there the deer had been in Oklahoma for a week! He got lucky and finally femoral arteried one. He would have fared much better with a 500 grain arrow for that set up on those critters. And 500 grains is PLENTY for TX Whitetail pass throughs. You can't pass through with the hardest hitting arrow if they aren't there when the arrow arrives.
Again, how long have you been shooting Trad, and what is the application of the desired arrow going to be?
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Very good advice so far, wood, aluminum, or carbon all will do the job. Mostly it boils down to what YOU like...
Whatever the arrow material you choose, it needs to be tuned to your bow and shooting style. Nock and feathers should be all you see and hitting your intended target where you are looking. Put a sharp broadhead into the mix and you will take some critters as long as you keep your cool at the moment of truth. Arrow material and for the most part broadhead choice really doesn't matter as long as the arrows are consistent from one finished arrow to the next.
Arrow weight is a consideration, but not as important in my eyes as tuning and sharp broadheads... at least on thin skinned game such as a whitetail...