Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Arkansaslongbow on May 22, 2011, 12:34:00 AM
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Kind of notice would he recieve? everyone is chasing that "record" buck with a compound and the companies are eager to pay BIG dollars to the one who can achieve this; but if that same deer was shot today with a recurve or longbow, would it bring as much attention as it would in the wheel world?
Would like to know your thoughts.....thanks
:campfire:
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only to the good guy's
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IMHO it would definitely get the same amount of attention...but unfortunately wouldnt be nearly as lucrative as if shot with the wheels...i just dont think the traditional companies out there could compete with the major wheel bow manufacturers in that respect...either way there is a group of us who love traditional archery and would appreciate that accomplishment for what it truly is!!!
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I could probably name about 30,000 +that would rave about it:)
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Trad Bow companies/bowyers perhaps wouldn't have the finances to make it too lucrative, but if he had the right camo clothing on.... or would say he likes so and so's brand...money in the bank.
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I would hope that hopefully there would much adulation at a fine effort and wonderful animal without any money changing hands ...
I understand sponsorship etc regarding equipment and product placement etc , but remain very uncomfortable when a $$$ value is attached to hunters 'succeeding ' with game animals .
Ol fashioned ain't I ?
As an Aussie , i always remember that photo of Mr Johnson , crew cut hairstyle if I remember correctly. It seemed to encompass 'bowhunting' to a kid from the suburbs of Melbourne ... but what sort of bow ?
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Some would depend upon the hunter. Not everyone runs to the camera or print media.
I would tend to be most impressed with the deer. Next with the hunter if he did it without someone saying "climb that tree". The type of bow (not brand) would be a distant third.
I would have no interest in the clothing, accessories, or the oderant the hunter scattered about.
From what I've read Mr. Johnson did it like it was done in his day, without designer jeans, hair gel, singers pimp'n songs, or fancy "team" buses.
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For me I can say that it would only matter to me. I shot a record buck here in NH with my recurve in 1990. It was unbelievable what I heard about myself from people that didn't realize it was me they were talking to. I wouldn't mind shooting a world record but to be honest, it's like being proud of something one of your children has done or accomplished. It really is only meaningful for those involved. Everyone else's reaction is either sincere thoughts from friends or it's someone who is jealous or someone who wants to get something ($$$) for themselves out of your good fortune. I would share it with my close friends and family, you guys here and maybe two other sites and that would be it. If someone wanted me to write a story I would but that would be the end of it.
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Something to chew on... Since it’s inception, all P&Y whitetail so-called world records and broken former world records through the years were all killed with traditional equipment except the Beatty Buck.
Following that up, anyone recall what bow models Mel Johnson, and Del Austin shot?
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I kinda agree with Bill. A friend that writes for a State outdoor magizine asked if he could interveiw myself and my hunting buddy John about public land pig hunting. We agreed and thought it would be cool. People were talking saying we killed so many because we " baited" , hunted at night, had good hunting clubs and just said we hunted public land....you get the picture.If I killed a "monster" buck only my hunting buddies around home and my TG buddies of course would know. RC
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I kind of agree with Bill as well. The problem is I would have to think about my family and how it could help them have a better life. If it was just my wife and I, I would probably not even enter it into the books. The only money dealyou would loose on is from the big bow company, as said I wear Rocky boots and carry a certain knife and wear certain clothes, plus the story rights would be huge as well, sorry but my family comes first and I believe it would help them lead better lives thru college and paying off mortgages and what not. Mel would of made out better today than back than for sure!! Shawn
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I'm pretty sure Mel shot a Howatt Hunter. Just saw a picture of him recently and the bow looked just like a Howatt. My first thought about Del Austin was that he shot either a Jack Howard or a Bear Magnum....but that is my fuzzy memory talking...not certain at all but if I was on Who Wants to be a Millionaire it would be one of those two bows.
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I would like to see a trad shooter kill the new world record whitetail just to prove that a bowhunter doesn't need all the gadgets etc. to achieve such a feat. Is that wrong? :bigsmyl:
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Yep, Mel Johnson used a Howatt (Martin) Hunter, but am not sure of the poundage or broadhead.
From info I wrote down, you receive a
beeeeep on your Del Austin guess... :)
Clue - It pulled 45# @ 28".
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mel johnson used a zwickey eskimo and del austin used a bear razorhead.
the august 1963 outdoor life story about old mossy horns - del austin's non-typical shot in 1962 - got me started bowhunting. and i have not stopped since!
johnson's typical buck was shot in '65 and it seems unbelievable that the record - 204.5 - still stands.
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According to an article I found, " Johnson, a left-hander who was using a 72-pound Howett recurve bow and a Zwickey broadhead on a fiberglass arrow..."
Article: http://prairiestateoutdoors.com/index.php?/hunting/article/mel_johnsons_13_pointer/
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It is sad this question is even asked but unfortunately advertising is where it's at but the entire trad community would be estatic.
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I like Del Austins buck. Mels story is cool too. :thumbsup:
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Let's see, Who was that kid in Ohio that broke Del's record?? What kind of bow was he shooting? I can't remember, only that he called it in using a Primos can.
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I have to add that Gene Wensels buck "Woody" was a very impressive creature. :cool:
222 7/8- that takes alot of antler!! :eek:
http://www.iowagameandfish.com/hunting/whitetail-deer-hunting/IA_0905_01/
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Now thats a nice deer. :clapper: :clapper: :clapper:
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Well if you look at any of the mainstream bowhunting media it is purely marketing and product placement!!! Find an objective review, never... It is like saying watching late night infomercials and saying but they are educational...
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What kind of bow was this guy shooting?
http://www.pope-young.org/world-records_details.asp?wr=21
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The only thing I remember about the Beatty buck was that is was a frontal shot with a compound.
The sad thing about taking a big buck on Long Island is that the first thing you think is that it is poached since there is so much hunting pressure on LI and so much poaching going on. Some big bucks are taken legally but that cloud does hang over everyones head.
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Now if the question would be what if "I" killed the world record:
1. Shout from the mountaintop that I killed it with traditional gear, fair-chase, and that I am sponsored by my wife's good cookin' and the grace of God. I didn't need some fancy sights or swamp-docky mystical vapor-rub...I needed a good wind, a full belly to sit all day, a bow made by one of the hundred or so GREAT bowyers around, and good fortune.
2. Call the Illinois DNR as soon as I took pics and shared the hunt with my traditional brothers locally. I would want the DNR there to document everything...here's why...
I have killed several great whitetails, including a 170 inch deer 2 years ago. You would not believe how much jealousy and BS surrounded that buck. Everything from "it was poached" to "he was trespassing". I found out quickly that folks patting you on the back sometimes are looking for a soft spot to stick the knife. Good hunters will be a little jealous of your good fortune but will tell you so :) Unethical bigots that love the Outhouse channel will try and destroy your reputation as an ethical and good hunter because you did it the right way and they just can't figure out why, after buying all the gizmos and worshipping at the "buy-this" shrine...
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Nope...trad guy kills a monster wouldn't make noise because ...he didn't have a range finder attatched to his 360 fps mechanical arrow launching device...neither was he shooting the expandable razor blade thing they call broadheads...and oh yeah...we don't have 80 yard sight pins either...darn aren't we very unfortunate....NOT!
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I'm almost positive the Beatty buck was a crossbow.
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Originally posted by buckeye_hunter:
I'm almost positive the Beatty buck was a crossbow.
This was something I thought of when Michigan allowed crossbows. How many record deer will be entered with a crossbow, but claiming to have shot it with a bow?
In states that allow crossbows during bow season, I would be skeptical of the entries.
I've been seeing shows and ads where guys are shooting deer comfortably at 60yds with a crossbow. Not the average range for most bow hunters.
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Thanx for the added info on Mel Johnson’s buck.
Somebody please correct me, but isn’t Del Austin’s buck still ranked #2 P&Y?…Thanx
The following are some things I collected over the years on Mr. Austin’s buck:
Del Austin of Hastings NE, buck shot on October 31, 1962 in Hall County, Nebraska with a 45@28" Sanders recurve and a Bear Razorhead. Current #2 P&Y with net nontypical score of 279-7/-8" P&Y, and 277-3/8" B&C. Had 34 scoreable points and nicknamed "Old Mossy Horns" by another bowhunter Al Dawson who hunted this buck for 5 years, in which the buck was believed to have been 8 years old when arrowed on an island in Nebraska's Platte River.
Buckeye_Hunter – No, the Beatty buck was killed with a compound, scores 294" NT, and ranks #1 P&Y, who do not accept xbow kills.
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I think its a shame either way that the success has to "measured" be it inches of antler or the bow he chooses to hunt with.
and to the original question, yes i think it would.
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I guess the reason I brought up the Beatty buck, was "No one promoted" the bow he was shooting, we don't even know if it was an C or an X.. The only promoting I heard of it was the "Can" call.
So back to the original post.. I doubt much would happen.
FWIW worth Mossy Horn was shot in the county I live in, and I have hunted the farm, for a short time.
Early 60's were the hay days around here for big bucks as most of the areas were just opening up to hunting.
I wish I would have been aware of what was going on back then but was too busy in school and military
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Beaty buck was killed with a mathews...fact is mike beatty had switched from a recurve a year or two before to the mathews...deer couldn't go in pope and young because of the let off on the mathews...jim
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Beatty buck is currently listed #1 P&Y.
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Ok...I'm thinkig of something else...I gota lot of useless stuff stored in my head...thanks...jim
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i think you have it right jim - more or less. when he shot it, as i recall, pope didn't recognize the big let-off [80% or so, i really don't know much about compounds] of his bow but it did allow 65% let-off. if i recall correctly the powers-that-be at P&Y had to change their rules in order to recognize the beatty buck as the new world record.
bill
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Yeah Jim – You were on the right track…8^) and not meant to talk about wheelie bows, but yeah as michigan bill stated, P&Y didn’t/wouldn’t accept the Beatty buck at first and didn’t accept it until after they changed the 65% let-off rule.
I tend to agree with Bill's assumption they changed the rules in part because of this animal.
Interesting thing though, during that time frame it was panel judged by the state records keeping organization officially as 304 6/8” NT and is listed with that as state record (any weapon), but lost over 10 inches to the P&Y panel judges with an official net NT score of 294”. Not sure what B&C accepted, or if was entered.
This thread is the first I’d heard he shot traditional equipment prior.
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Interesting topic!!! It would be fun to see, with all the speed freaks shooting wheels these days!!!
When it happens, I hope the hunter is shooting an old selfbow and homemade arrahs, and they're dressed in wool plaid!!!!
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IMO it would get a ton more then if shot with a compound. wheel guys respect trad hunters alot and know its more of a challenge to arrow deer instead of being able to take longer shots with sights ect... cabelas would most likly try and buy the head and hoyt might try and sponsor along with some camo companys and all the hunting gadget companies.
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Talking about the Wensel buck, in 1977 Mike Monson from Clear Lake, Iowa killed a non typical that scores 222 3/16 with a Wing Redwing Hunter MA-3 broadhead,Micro-Flite arrow, it was are state record for quite a few years, was also the top buck taken in 77-78 P&Y scoring period, This buck also came from the part of the state that doesn`t have numbers of deer like southern Iowa has.
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Using bows with more than 65% let off does net you a "sissy star" next to your record in P&Y to let you know.
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fireman_3311 - "Official Measurer for Boone and Crockett.. Have tape, will travel!!!"
Hey Brad, I assume you have a recent B&C records book? Have always been curious, and was wondering if you can advise if the Beatty buck was entered in B&C and if so, at what score and where does it rank?
Thanx much for your time and info,
Gary
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Same as if he shot it with a compound, crossbow, rifle, muzzleloader, handgun or slingshot. It would just be different companies trying to cash in.
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Originally posted by Zbone:
fireman_3311 - "Official Measurer for Boone and Crockett.. Have tape, will travel!!!"
Hey Brad, I assume you have a recent B&C records book? Have always been curious, and was wondering if you can advise if the Beatty buck was entered in B&C and if so, at what score and where does it rank?
Thanx much for your time and info,
Gary
I'll look this evening!!! I got to fondle the Beatty Buck when it was panel measured for Pope and Young....it's a beast!! Also fondled Art Youngs Blacktail. Fun stuff!!!
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Originally posted by Zbone:
fireman_3311 - "Official Measurer for Boone and Crockett.. Have tape, will travel!!!"
Hey Brad, I assume you have a recent B&C records book? Have always been curious, and was wondering if you can advise if the Beatty buck was entered in B&C and if so, at what score and where does it rank?
Thanx much for your time and info,
Gary
PnY states the Beatty buck was killed in 2000, and I'm pretty sure it was panel measured and entered spring of 01. My most recent BnC book is from 03, and it doesn't list the Beatty buck?!!
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...he would be accused of being a poacher, tresspasser, or rich person with exclusive access to the property he was hunting or combination of the above. He would have to lock the antlers in a safety vault and put a big sign outside his home stating this to prevent his house from being broken into at least once per week. He would also hear from every manufacturer out there wanting him to show up in an advertisement and claim the use of their product was the edge he neeeded for success.
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Thanx for your time checking Brad.
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Anytime!!