Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Scott Teaschner on June 30, 2011, 12:34:00 PM
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Hey I need some help. I am not a back qiuver shooter but I want to build some to add to my line of archery gear. I am not looking for a pattern for I will make my own. I just want some feed back as to what you guys like and dislike about the ones you use. I am always trying to refine what I build and some times what is avalible is not necasarly what works well. Give me good detaials so when I lay my pattern out I can make adjustments. For example adjustability of the strap, how it attatches to the body, size anything specific that you think would better the product. Thanks for the help Scott.
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Looking forward to seeing what your design holds.
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I like a one inch strap with a buckle for adjustment. Make sure you get the angle that the strap attaches correct -- it will buckle and bend if the angle is not correct and can make the quiver hang badly.
A lot of guys like a two-strap quiver, but I haven't found a good way to make this work for me (yet). I like the concept, but just haven't found a way to make it work the way I want.
I like a divider at the top to separate arrows. I just tied in a piece of rivercane to make separate compartments for two different "classes" of arrows. On another quiver, I punched holes at the top to use as places to tie in arrows. Keeps them quiet until needed and tied with a slip knot they are easy to get loose.
Line the top with fleece or fur. Helps keep down rattling.
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Pictures would be good also to help me understand better.
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Mine is very simple with about 6" x 3" ovals at top and bottom. It is 24" long to go up to the fletch of my 30" arrows as I do not like much shaft sticking out to hang up. The strap is 1 1/4" and has several double holes punched and a piece of lace to run thru and tie for adjustment. The bottom piece is made of bear hide with the fur inside. The main compartment is soft enough to collapse against the back to keep shafts from rattling. A piece of lace across the top divides the blunts and broadheads.
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Had to bring this to the top come on you back quiver guys you got to have some good ideas!
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Hi ya Scott. There was an article in TBM last issue (June'ish)? on back quivers for hunting and it gave some excellent pointers on design and use. Marvin M. has some good points and so does kbaamigo.
What I don't like with my current back quiver for hunting is the stiffness of the leather and large size. It'll hold two dozen arrows. A dozen maybe? The strap (single) is laced so its a pain to adjust and its UNCOMFORTABLE! The buckle idea is a good one. Came with no padding in the bottom for protection (quick fix though). Its good for 3D shoots and some stumping until it rubs me raw.
What I'd like to see based on my limited experience and reading the TBM article,
-One strap with buckle or other quick adjustment device
-outside pocket for small stuff with a secure fastening system
-pliable leather for the body but the opening stiff enough it doesn't collapes
-a divider (lace across the top is good) to keep my stumping arrows from my target or broadheads
-reasonably light with good ergonomics for the way it fits on the body
-did I mention comfortable without being bulky?
-and tough enough to scare timid folk.
Having some of what you already make, I have no doubt it will be comfortable, durable and built with lasting quality. I may not hunt multi day backcounty backpacking hunts with it but that's what I'd like to see...until more good ideas show up.
:D
Craig
PS
Available for product testing and evaluation.....haha
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Can I add one more to the wish list?
One of your knife sheaths attached to the strap would be REALLY cool.......handy too.
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Scott,
I just posted a thread about three point quivers or three strap quivers. I personally don't like a single strap to contact quiver. Too loose for my taste.
Had I wanted to spend more time on mine I would have liked a compartment for small storage. A rectangular storage area with flap and button or antler attached with a lace wrap to keep it secured. No zippers or velcro.
I like tooled leather but don't have the patience to do it. I have all the tools, just not the time.
I have found that 5/6oz leather works best for the right stiffness but pliable enough to hold arrow when formed to my back.
I posted photos of mine in the thread but unfortunately have not gotten alot of three point feedback. I used bronze plated quick snaps for attaching to the ring at the chest. The bottom of mine is four layers of 5/6oz glued together for durability. The bottom most layer is slightly larger than the other three to allow it to fit into the opening with the fourth layer acting as a sheld for the quiver body to rest against. I folded the body rather than looped it. Sewing down the 23" length was going to be too much so I went with the open stitch. This gave a teardrop opening rather than an oval opening. I think mine is the right size for hunting. THe body is 23" long. It'll hold about a doz arrows easaily but not much more than that. I haven't punched any holes yet for a divider. The bottom straps are attached with artificial sinew and brass Chicago screws. Goat glue was used in the screws to keep them together.
It ain't perfet, but it's the closest I have come to a quiver that works for me for hunting.
If the bottom design were a little different then it could allow for single strap or double strap/3 pt contact.
Preliminary use indicates the arrows will be totally immobile while hunting.
Let me now what you think.
Bud
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=105514;p=1#000002
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Thanks for the help so far! Keep it coming pictures are good. Bud quiver does not look bad. The only thing I would say and I never use a back quiver so its just me. The hardware (snaps and buckles) are going to make noise every time something touches them. I even hate sling swiveles on rifles. I usally put electrick tape over them to keep noise down. What about a buckles with a sleave? You would have the ease off adjustment instead of laceing but the sleave would slide up and down to cover the buckle. What about heavy duty button snaps for the extra straps instead of big spring or trigger snaps. Would be less weight and no noise. Bud did you oil and seal your Quiver yet. If not let me know and I will give you some tips. You really did a nice job on it.
Scott
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Bud,
Good job on that quiver. Saw the thread when you started it but lost it and didn't get to see the pictures.
That three point looks good. I've been trying to figure out something that will work for that but no success so far. Is that one working well for you?
Mine that I like best is also a tear drop type quiver. I got a pattern from Tandy Leather that used that. I'm still tweaking it and plan to make another some day with new ideas that I have.
Scott,
I'll volunteer to be a tester also. :D
There was a good article in the old Instinctive Archer that had a lot of points about using a back quiver that I got some good ideas from. I'll see if I can find it and send you a copy.
The only hunting I've used my back quiver for is small game so far. I really like it for 3D, squirrels and rabbits. I'm still tweaking before I'll be fully comfortable with deer or other large animals.
Good points above though. I wouldn't want a quiver without a pocket on it. As rferred to above, my favorite one so far (from the Tandy pattern) has a zippered pocket. Also, I added four "D" rings to the back to tie on a jacket or other gear if the weather heats up.
In my future plans is the possibility of adding an external spot to put a judo or bird tip equipped arrow that could be accessed from the side instead of over the top. What I've thought about is attaching a couple of arrow clips that the arrow would slip into and retreiving that arrow would be a matter of reaching around the hip and pulling it out. It would ride close to the quiver and behind your back so there would be minimal chance of it catching on brush.
I'll see if I can find that article and get it to you.
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Bud B. good lookin' quiver. Why do you prefer the tear drop shape? I like the looks, alot, it just seems like it bunches all the arrows to one side. Seems like wasted space on the other. Just askin', not criticizin'. I do like the looks of it best but have been thinkin' of makin' one more like what Byron wears, ya'know a big oval. Just seems like he can carry a shi? load of arrows in his.
I just cut up my last piece of leather yesterday for a quiver. I could go either way with the pattern right now. Talk me into the teardrop shape instead of the big oval if you would. I'm teeterin' on the fence between the two. Like the looks of yours best, just seems like the other would be more vesatile. Talk to me......
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joekeith,
I don't know about Bud but I like the way mine hangs better than the oval one's I've tried. Yes, you lose some space, but you'd be surprised how many arrows you can squeeze in there. I've got my quiver with me here at work (I shoot on my lunch hour). I'll see if I can get one of the office ladies to take a picture and I'll post that on here. I've got the single strap, so mines not as nice as Bud's, but it is now my favorite.
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Fit snugly to the body the snaps stay tight so noise is not an issue. I like the snaps at the chest to allow for qiuick release in the event you need to crawl or remove it for anything such as a call of nature......
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I reall don't think you lose any space. If the quiver leans to one side the arrows will go that way naturally. The teardrop is easier to sew with the tight stitches I did. I made one before that was oval and liked to never got it sewn due to its size vs. my hand size.
Once I get a divider in there I'll show you how it'll divide the arrows for hunting.
Haven't treated it yet.
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Bud if its a veg tan which it looks to be pure olive oil is the very best period. You then need to seal it. Give me a call and I can go over it better with you but you will absolutly love the results.
Scott
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Oh more pics I now have to look at this oval design. I am really learning alot. Again I see there will have to be a few models to please every one.
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Scott,
Here's a few pictures of mine. I apologize -- I am not even close to being a professional.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/kyarcher76/IMG00394.jpg)
That pic shows the back of it. You can see the D Rings that I added to lash gear on and the pocket. I wouldn't recommend that style of pocket, but it works for me. You can also see some of the tear drop shape and how it will lay flat on your back. They don't show up real well, but you can also see the holes I punched around the top rim for lashing down arrows.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/kyarcher76/IMG00397.jpg)
Couldn't help myself on this one. Distant view of it with my Pearson recurve in there for size reference.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/kyarcher76/IMG00396.jpg)
That's a top view. I doubt if you can count them, but I have fifteen arrows in that left side!!! Having it compressed over there doesn't really limit the capacity a lot. Also, if you squeeze them in there, they won't rattle. Note the thongs in there for dividers. Having holes punched lets you adjust the size and location of the "chambers" that you will use for storing your second string, backup, bloodied, stumping, etc...... arrows. The quiver has nineteen arrows in it and there is still room to spare.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/kyarcher76/IMG00395.jpg)
On this final pic, I turned it around so you can see the strap. As I mentioned earlier, I like a one inch strap. It's plenty wide and just feels good for me. Note the D-ring and clip attachement for the strap. Having the clip makes if very versatile to get one/off and I have in the past unclipped it so that I could hang it on the side rail of my tree stand -- you can't do that with a laced strap.
I have to say that I'm intrigued by Bud's tripple point set-up. As I said earlier I've been trying to figure out how to do that to keep this one from slipping down to the side. His method just might work for that. I'll let him expound on that if he will.
I'm loving this thread.
Marvin
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All I can say is that the second strap that creates a third (really fourth) contact point keeps things locked down. Both the quiver and the arrows. But, the leather needs to be formed to the back. Thicker leather might need some break-in time.
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I went and looked at the Ferguson oval I did not understand at first what you guys where refering to but it is the bottom shape and it dictates the overal shape. Keep learning me guys.
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Bud,
Would there be any benefit to attaching the two bottom straps to different spots? All yours meet in the same place and all of them I have seen do that also. Would it be better if they attached at different spots -- in other words, instead of an upside down "Y" maybe it would look like an upside down"y". Not symetrical.
I have zero experience with a three point and have actually never even seen one in person. I know that you can get a "converter kit", for lack of a better term, at Three Rivers that will attach to the current strap. I doubt if they would be symetrical when used.
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Scott,
It's not part of the quiver, but I would highly recommend that you have "booties" for your broadheads to protect them in the quiver. Unless you have a foam bottom to stick them in, they can rub together and nick or dull your heads.
I can't take credit for an original idea, but if you have three, four, or six booties with heads in them and not tied on the arrow, then run a string or strap of some kind through a hold in them to tie them all together, when you pull one arrow out, the others will stay in their booties due to being tied together and having the weight of the other arrows on them. Does that make sense?
I'm jsut brainstorming here and throwing out ideas. It looks like just the three of us participating here.
Marvin
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Marvin,
I think I understand what you are saying and i have made booties. But instead of linking them together would it be easier to put in foam at the bottom. Is there a disadvatage to foam?
Scott
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I asked Scott if I could also post photos.
Here is the quiver being worn. Forgive the harsh looking model.
But if you'll note, even bent over the arrows stayed snuggly in the quiver absolutely silently. There are 16 arrows in there with room for several more. even with only 6 in there they are snug and still.
No divider yet.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/Downloads6252011045.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/Downloads6252011046.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/Downloads6252011047.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/Downloads6252011048.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/Downloads6252011049.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/Downloads6252011050.jpg)
The top inside is double layered for rigidity and to keep the top open for arrows to be placed back in after shooting.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/Downloads6252011051.jpg)
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Originally posted by Marvin M.:
Bud,
Would there be any benefit to attaching the two bottom straps to different spots? All yours meet in the same place and all of them I have seen do that also. Would it be better if they attached at different spots -- in other words, instead of an upside down "Y" maybe it would look like an upside down"y". Not symetrical.
I have zero experience with a three point and have actually never even seen one in person. I know that you can get a "converter kit", for lack of a better term, at Three Rivers that will attach to the current strap. I doubt if they would be symetrical when used.
Based on my limited knowledge and experience I would think the bottom contacts need to be in relation to each other symmetrically to allow for the snug fit. So yes, I think they should be at the same level and exact opposite of one another to get an even pull on the quiver sides.
If I were wearing more clothing, like in a hunting situation, the straps would be adjusted out to allow for good fit but taught contact for no snap rattle.
A quick release of one snap would allow for quick repositioning for navigating woods and brush.
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ttt
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Thanks guys.
Scott,
My only concern with foam is to make sure that the arrow doesn't work it's way out. You could tie booties on and pull them out with the bootie on there but if you are trying to get off a quick second shot it would take extra time to get the bootie off once it's out of the quiver.
Bud,
Thanks for the additional pics and explanation. What you are saying makes sense. I'm thinking that I might want to make all three straps adjustable to make it easier to fit, especially if you are making one for sale (Scott). That way anyone could adjust it to fit themselves no matter what their body shape.
Good stuff guys. I'm taking notes.
Marvin
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I like big Hill style quivers...high capacity, rectangular-ish, with rounded corners. The leather needs to be just right. Thick enough to be rigid so the quiver doesn't fold and slide under your armpit, but thin enough to draw close and hug your arrows so you don't dump them when you bend over. I don't know the oz.-weight. Latigo is a little too thick. Suede is way too soft. I also like them to be all leather, with a simple leather lace that can be adjusted with a couple of overhand knots. I don't like metal fasteners. A 1-3/4" wide strap is nice for comfort. A big pocket is useful, too, for a water bottle, camera, or whatever else I'm carrying. A lace divider in the mouth is nice to keep arrows separate and to hold the mouth shape. A fold of leather at the top also helps keep the mouth open. An outer band around the bottom and a heavy latigo insert "in" the bottom is a plus to offer broadhead protection. Also, importantly, I like them deep enough so the leading edge of my fletchings set just below the quiver mouth. That allows the fletchings to ride lower on your back, which makes it easier to grab/replace arrows, and keeps them from snagging on vegetation. I see alot of back quivers that have almost half the arrow sticking above the quiver. :confused: If feasible, offering/stating a couple of different depths would be ideal. Last, I prefer quivers that look fairly simple and rustic. I can appreciate fancy toolwork, snakeskin adornment, etc, but that's not me. Enough rambling. Here's one I made that suits me. (I used all the irregular edge leather for trim on this one.)
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww48/Alpinbogen/quiver002a.jpg)
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Scott,
If you're looking to make quivers you might need several desings. The Plains Quiver guys haven't chimed in yet.
I've been eyeballing your armguards in the classifieds for months now. After they're gone I'll kick myself for not jumping on it. Some folks don't know how much time goes into a basket weave pattern on leather. I've tried it before and I have never gotten good results. Yours look perfect. I can only imagne how good your quivers will look. And they'll be worth every penny.
As for the quiver design, I toyed around with a second layer of leather on the inside of the bottom to make a sort of "sleeve" for two blade boadheads so that carefully placed they would sit in the quiver secured and blades protected from the various other arrows carried while hunting. Not sure if that makes sense to you, but, I plan on making that part off my next quiver design.
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I really dont understand the sleeve. I also dont see how the booties attached to one another would work either. I dont think it would come out easy enough and you would have a train of arrows following the one your drawing out. Unless I am not understasnding that type of system. Also it seems you would have to take your quiver of evry time you drew a arrow with a broadhead to put it back in. If you put the same type of foam they use in bow quivers wouldnt that work just as good or better? Adam and Bud you are correct there will probably have to be several models. This info is great because if I just started to build one I would be doing it blind for I dont use one. I personally like Rod Jekins design althouh I have never tried it it seems very well suited for hunting. I think I am going to try to build one like his out of leather.Bud the only arm guard I wont be offering is the that unlined one there gone now. I had some imported leather that I was told was as good as Herman Oak its not so I would not use it in my deluxe arm guard. I am trying to grow my buisness not just for fancy tooling but in the quality in the craftmanship. In other words I want my product even though it may be more money than someone elses will be a better value because of haveing all the requirments met. That being said I will try to list those qualities. Fit and function it has to work and not just because there is nothing else to use. Finish no mater if tooled or not it looks pleasing to the eye and weather and use do not degrade it. Construction it takes longer to build things well but they last longer work better and if they do break are usally reparable. I could go on but you get the idea. As with every thing I am sure I will be refineing things as I go along. I am going to always try to offer a standard product in my line not that it will be a cheap product it just might be less complicated like minus fancy tooling. Things are really picking up for me people are seeing the diffrence. I will be at Denton Hill and I am going to be putting in a lot of hours but I should have a lot of product for people to see. I cant wait to get there it looks like fun and I will get to meet all you guys. Keep the info coming you can be guaranted I am listening.
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Scott,
You are right in that if you take a broadhead out using the booties you would have to either take off the quiver, or pull out all the broadhead arrows to bet to the bootie to put that one back in.
I would get around that by using one of the final stalkers attached to the bow. As I stated before, I haven't used a back quiver for big game yet, so anytime I have it in the woods it's with blunts or judo's.
My objection to the foam would be basically the same thing though. If you just put the arrow back over your shoulder and slide it back into the foam you would need to see where it was going in to keep from slicing up your foam and having it lose it's gripping ability.
I guess there isn't an easy answer to that. I've read that some people fill the bottom of their quiver with something loose like rice or wheat. But you'd need to be careful with rain if you were doing that.
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Guys, it's pretty simple, if a quiver is made of the proper weight leather to mold to your back, is angled properly so the arrows lay over right, you don't need booties, oats, or any other filler in the bottom. If you have to have all that stuff to make it work, it was wrong to begin with!
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The quiver needs to "lay together". The quiver will conform to your back and will hold the arrows. I place a piece of carpet in the bottom of mine. I did put a thin bottom in mine made from hard plastic, but you could use thick leather. The strap need to be loose enough so that the arrows are not right by your ear. This is a total pain in the woods if the quiver positions the arrows to straight up and down. For RH archer the need to be in the back right, off the shoulder at an angle. This kicks the fletch somewhat back, not right on you and is much easier to handle in the brush. If the fletch is positioned straight up, they run into everything! If the strap is loose you can easily slide the quiver, by grabbin it with the left hand at the bottom, and bringing it around to your side then back to the the ready position. This is for a Hill style back quiver. Other styles are out there and have their advantages, but these can be used quite effectively in the bush. the quiver does have to fit.
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I read your article David. That's what prompted me to build the quiver shown in my photos, but, I prefer the extra strap. I am not flexible and do not like the elbow bump method to retrieve arrows. I'm a police officer. When I reach for my handcuffs, ammo pouch, mace, or whatever is and has been on my belt for the last 21 years I need it to be where my muscle memory knows it should be. With my arrows I need them to be about 6" from my left ear. My quiver, like my utility belt, needs to be secure and where my reach will allow.
Your article was a good one. My quiver at an unbroken-in state already holds the arrows securely. Once I treat the raw leather and start using it I hope it continues to reassure me that I made the right quiver for me. So far it has.
If Scott introduces a similar quiver I'll be paying attention. His leather work is masterful. A quiver in the right leather, as in Herman Oak, will be a work of art from his hands.
Scott,
If you make a lefty quiver I'll be glad to be a guinea pig.
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I like a traditional style back quiver with a single shoulder strap, BUT I've never had good flexiblity in my joints (I'm the opposite of being double-jointed). As a result, it's hard for me to grab or replace an arrow if the top of the quiver is positioned too far outside of my right shoulder (I'm a right-handed shooter). Therefore, I prefer a quiver with the shoulder strap attached to the top center of the quiver rather than attached to the top left side as in a classic Hill-style quiver. The center attached strap positions the arrows closer to the center of my back and makes them easier for me to reach.
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WOW......FOLKS!!! :eek: I am Impressed with ALL of Your Talents!! :thumbsup:
One thing is For Sure: a Persons Back-Quiver IS as Personal as Their Glove Or Tab!! All A Matter Of Prefference, and NONE of them are Wrong!! :archer:
GREAT JOB TO ALL!!! :clapper: :clapper:
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What Dave Mitchell said !
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Clint B. that is my preference for strap placement at the top as well. Actually, one of my best fitting quivers is a cheapy made by John Hale that he used to sell at Cloverdale and a few other shoots for around $40--the strap was dead center top and bottom and the same quiver worked for either left or right handers.
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Bud,
not knocking your fine craftsmanship, talents, or design.....but if I had to use a quiver like yours with the straps holding it down tight, I'd never be able to walk through the woods without hanging up arrows, I'd have more moves than a gypsy belly dancer in a bamboo thicket :) .....maybe you are just using yours for target shooting. There is a reason why the single strap quiver has been around so long for hunting...it's highly manueverable in the hunting woods. :) as David so aptly wrote in his TBM article.
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I'm not knocking Dave or his article. I can use it for hunting and intend to. The snaps release easily for what you're saying. Then when upright just snap it back. I shot some today trying to see how I could maneuver with it. I did everything except jumping jacks and it held the arrows securely. I did jump up and down and move side to side quickly. The arrows never made a sound and never shifted. I like the extra security to keep my bow hand ready instead of using my bow hand elbow to bump the quiver to be able to reach the arrows. As I said, my flexibility has never been great. I like stalking open woods. I don't anticipate any problems with it hanging up but I do expect it'll happen occasionally.
If I came off as disrespectful it was not intended towards Dave or anyone. Dave himself wrote that there is really no perfect quiver for all occasions. I prefer mine to balance more on constant stability and will accept the shortcomings if they creep up. I expect that if game approached as I was bent over crawling or squatting through trees and shrubs I couldn't get a good shot off anyway.
Scott asked for input. And I do look forward to his design.
Shakes is spot on.
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Bud B. certainly no offence taken....nice to see how well you read my meanderings! :thumbsup: :campfire:
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It was a dang good article. I personally wish I could use a one strapper, but I have never been flexible so I have to make do. And if that's you in the photo crawling I like how that quiver lies on your back.
Last night I tried shooting five arrows as fast and accurately as I could from the quiver in the photos in this thread. I was able to get five shots in about 25 seconds with time starting with all five in the quiver.
The true test of the quiver will be at Ray's in March. I hunt 12 acres for deer here locally. Not alot of room for stalking. I'll take it to Birkhead Wilderness this fall for deer but it's alot of open forest. Fingers are crossed.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/Quiverandbow001.jpg)
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Bud, I understand the flexibility thing. I have a buddy who has that problem real bad after shoulder surgery and wants to use a back quiver so bad he can taste it, but he can't use one under any circumstance. I'm glad you found what works well for you and I hope you enjoy the heck out of your quiver--real nice job. And yes, that's me crawling around in the picture.
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Thanks for the olive oil tip Scott. It's drying now.
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No problem all the help has been great it is appreciated.
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one thing not discussed here yet is the quiver size....
a narrow tube quiver dictates that the arrows must be pulled straight (or almost straight0 out the end of the quiver, and most quivers positioned high on the back make it very difficult to draw the arrow by the nock without running out of arm length. So guys grab the shaft by the feather area and this slows down the knocking system.
a larger Hill style quiver that lays diagonally across the back allow the arrow to be pulled by the nock, and the arrow is removed diagonally from the quiver, meaning lower arm angle, enough arm length to fully remove the arrow by the nock, and easier/faster nocking of the arrow on the string.
flexibility isn't really too much of a problem with a loose-fitting Hill style quiver as the quiver bottom is bumped up into position each time you grab an arrow....you can bump the quiver as high as necessary to reach the arrows, and then the quiver falls back out of the way so you can go through brush....if you look at old photos of archers using a Hill style quiver, including Hill himself, you will notice that the arrows are hanging off the shoulder, not up by the ear....target/field archers using backquivers have the arrows up by the ear...