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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: jamesh76 on July 22, 2011, 01:28:00 PM

Title: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: jamesh76 on July 22, 2011, 01:28:00 PM
I recently tried to put a rubber tip protector on one of my longbows. I got different arrow flight from this. Any suggestions on this matter, or do I you need to retune a bow if you place a tip protector on it?


James
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: Javi on July 22, 2011, 01:33:00 PM
Even adding or removing a quiver will require a retune.. so yes a tip protector requires a retune..
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: TIM B on July 22, 2011, 01:37:00 PM
Lots of guys use them but I never liked them. Seems like a good place for moisture and dirt to collect to me.  Once a year I just spray or brush a little polly on the tip to keep it in good shape
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: Boomerang on July 22, 2011, 01:52:00 PM
Just put one on both ends and you will even it out. It works for me.
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: BOWMARKS on July 22, 2011, 01:54:00 PM
That is the second thing on right after a string on a new bow for me so I guess it does not matter , we are tuning from that point on.
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: jamesh76 on July 22, 2011, 02:17:00 PM
I guess since I have already tuned this bow that I will just take it off then.

Thanks Guys.
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: RM81 on July 22, 2011, 02:21:00 PM
I cut mine to just barely cover the string grooves.  It keeps the string on, but doesn't affect string travel.  I didn't notice a considerable difference after I added it.  My arrows still hit where they did before.  My inconsistencies in form are worse than any changes made by the tip protector.  Just my .02

Or you could try that rubber dip stuff just on the very tip (not going up the string groove.  I wouldn't think it would add that much weight, shouldn't affect string travel, and wouldn't let moisture or anything else get trapped in.
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: smokin joe on July 22, 2011, 02:27:00 PM
A friend had a very noisy and harsh longbow that he was thinking of selling. He just couldn't tune the noise out of it by changing strings, silencers, points or arrow spine -- until he took off the tip protector. Then the bow settled right down.

Almost anything can have an effect on tune and noise.
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: robtattoo on July 22, 2011, 02:45:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by jamesh76:
I recently tried to put a rubber tip protector on one of my longbows. I got different arrow flight from this. Any suggestions on this matter, or do I you need to retune a bow if you place a tip protector on it?


James
I would think that if something that insignificant affected your arrow flight, your arrows are probably right on the verge of being wrong anyway.
I've got one on each of my bows & I haven't noticed any difference whatsoever.
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: Swamp Yankee on July 22, 2011, 03:08:00 PM
I used tip protectors for years thinking they couldn't matter that much; until I removed one from a widow I was trying to quiet down and it worked.  I no longer have them on any bow.  Brush buttons are still there though!
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: Friend on July 22, 2011, 03:12:00 PM
Have never noticed any change in the past by shooting with or w/o tip protectors.

I always attempt to tune with everything installed. If I ever change something, I revalidate tuning. Keeping a bareshaft in my quiver has served me well in maintaining confidence.
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: jamesh76 on July 22, 2011, 03:21:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by robtattoo:
 
Quote
Originally posted by jamesh76:
I recently tried to put a rubber tip protector on one of my longbows. I got different arrow flight from this. Any suggestions on this matter, or do I you need to retune a bow if you place a tip protector on it?


James
I would think that if something that insignificant affected your arrow flight, your arrows are probably right on the verge of being wrong anyway.
I've got one on each of my bows & I haven't noticed any difference whatsoever. [/b]
I think it may be that the tip protecor slides over the string so far. I may try trimming them down.

The arrows I am shooting bareshaft and fly great as they are.
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: rraming on July 22, 2011, 03:25:00 PM
I have had issues with longbows with skinny limbs, other longbows with fatter limbs don't mind (at least that is my experience)
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: dragonheart on July 22, 2011, 03:29:00 PM
Avoid them altogether.  Bowyers go to great trouble to time and tiller limbs and then adding  weight to one end of the two levers.  Changes the dynamic between the limbs.
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: Bill Turner on July 22, 2011, 04:17:00 PM
Have used them for almost 40 years without problems. Cut them short to just cover the string groove. Not only protects the tips but also helps keep the string in place when the bow is unstrung. Have never had any problem with sand, grit, noise or arrow tuning. I'm just too old to change now.   :archer2:
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: Lee Robinson . on July 22, 2011, 06:25:00 PM
This is a bit of a long winded post, but if you read it, there is some good info on tuning and matching a system up properly.

It does make a difference in some situations if you have a tip protector on a bow or not. It is a slight difference, but there is a difference never the less.

A lot of people say you can not bareshaft tune a broadhead arrow because the broadhead will windplane, but the truth is it can be done. I have done it and I know of a few others that have done it as well; however, for that to happen, everything has to be perfect. I recall one set up that I had that was super forgiving in bareshafting and I was able to bareshaft several different broadheads (zephyr, 125-160 gr snuffers, and Abowyer broadheads) and without broadheads I was able to bareshaft 2117, 2216, & 2219, but the 2216 was the only arrow that shot the broadheads perfect. What that meant to me, it was my go to shaft for a fletched up arrow.

Anyway, upon putting a tip protector on that bow, I could see a slight amount of nock high coming out of the bow within the early portion of the arrow's flight. Of course it wasn't much and it would straighten out without much flopping, but I noticed it because I was used to seeing that clean spin of the fletching and that's all...and I could see that the flight wasn't the same. I decided to shoot a bareshaft and I had nock high even with field points. I took the tip protector off and haven't used one since.

What you can do is get a jar and mix up some of the massey epoxy finish up in it, and then dip your lower tip in the jar in it, hold it there for a second, and then when you pull it out just shake off the drip if there is a drip. Let it dry and do it again if you want some 4+ hours or so later. Once dry solid (6-8 hours or so), you can steel wool it slightly and then wax it AFTER you are done (do not wax between coats) and that will leave a thin coating of epoxy over the lower limb tip that isn't anything more than a thicker coating of finish, meaning it would weigh very little. Of course, to do this, it may create an issue with your current finish depending upon what finish is on the bow.

BTW, a fletched arrow will generally shoot slightly stiffer than an unfletched arrow. The more tuned your equipment is, the more forgiving the system will be.
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: Over&Under on July 22, 2011, 06:51:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BOWMARKS:
That is the second thing on right after a string on a new bow for me so I guess it does not matter , we are tuning from that point on.
Same here...tuning starts with a protector on....but I guess it would make a difference if it were added after a tuning session.

Although my shooting aint near good enough to tell  :knothead:
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: Benny Nganabbarru on July 22, 2011, 06:55:00 PM
Personally, I do not believe that for me adding or subtracting a bow quiver or tip protector affects arrow flight to any detectable degree.
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: Benny Nganabbarru on July 22, 2011, 06:57:00 PM
If bows were as finicky as we sometimes think they are, our ancestors never would've shot all those woolly mammoths to Kingdom Come!
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: Lee Robinson . on July 23, 2011, 12:49:00 AM
The bow I noticed the tip protector effecting was one of the most accurate bows and well tillered bows I ever shot. It was a Habu recurve from the early 2000's. I still remember it.

Now that said, I do NOT think all bows are effected by tip protectors the same way. Also, I do not think all tip protectors would effect any single bow the same way.

I personally believe the lighter the limb, the more the limb travels (long draws), and the heavier the tip protector...the more it will come into play.
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: jamesh76 on July 23, 2011, 05:09:00 AM
As for the top protectors. There are 2 different types. There is the rubber one which just slides over the limb tip and part of the string if you do not trim it and there is the leather one that you slide your string through a little slot or hole. These two are linked below. A good picture to see how the rubber slide on protectors lay on the string. I have came to the conclusion that after shooting last night that if you do not trim the rubber tip protecter that it will effect your arrow flight because that it slides so far over the string in essence shortening it. I do not believe that the leather type will effect arrow flight much at all if any because it does not limit the movement of the string because it slides through a hole. Any thoughts?

 http://www.3riversarchery.com/product.asp?i=4248X  

 http://www.3riversarchery.com/Bow+Accessories+Tip+Protectors++Leather+Longbow+Protector_c46_s206_p0_i6210_product.html
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: Dodger on July 23, 2011, 06:47:00 AM
James, I use  http://www.3riversarchery.com/Recurve+%26+Longbow+Bow+Tip+Protector_i4029_baseitem.html  on a Bear Montana and have not had a problem. I recently trimmed it without any ill effects to the bow's tune.

I'd rather re-tune the bow than damage the tip.
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: T Lail on July 23, 2011, 08:31:00 AM
have all ways used one on my longbows and recurves.....never had any issues......  :archer2:
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: cacciatore on July 23, 2011, 08:39:00 AM
I have noticed some differences only on certain bows,but to stay safe i trim the protector as much as possible.When you are hunting in a steep mountain it can be necessary to use your bow as a stick,so i want there a tip protector.Hunting from a tree stand maybe you don't need it.
I like the way keep it Simple thinks.
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: B/W lvr on July 23, 2011, 09:08:00 AM
I've seen what happens when the lower string nock isn't in the groove completely when the bow is strung. I've also seen what happens to a bow when the finish is violated and water gets in. I use limb protectors on every bow I own,right from the start and have absolutely no issues with them. Yes I bareshaft every one of them also. Frank
Title: Re: Tip Protectors and Tuning
Post by: buckracks7 on July 23, 2011, 09:31:00 AM
What Bill Turner said. Cut them so they just hold the string in the groove. It holds the string in place when stringing, and protects the tip. They don't change arrow flight, dynamics, speed, or anything else if installed properly. All positives, and no negatives for me. Why do you think Black Widow provides a tip protector with ALL their bows? They are made to fit their bows, so you may need to cut them to fit yours. Just don't change the natural string angle when the bow is drawn.