Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Rob W. on September 23, 2011, 08:49:00 PM
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It's funny how most of the year at work I'm just the guy in the camo hat that gets sick a bunch in Oct./Nov. but a week before season everybody has questions. I had two conversations today about bow and arrow setups(compound) and one about stand placement. My boss even asked about a string for an old Bear.
It's good to see people interested in hunting and I helped the best I could. Just wish these conversations would happen a bit earlier in the year. :banghead:
Rob
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That seems to be one of the big differences between regular hunters and trad hunters . Most people wait to the last minute to get things in order but most trad guys are shooting and tweaking gear all year long . As I said there are only 2 seasons in a year , hunting season and preparing for hunting season .
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I have to disgree with Greyfox54, it is not about the gear a hunter chooses, it is how committed they are to hunting. I just don't think what we shoot defines us as a hunter. Why is taking a deer with my recurve anymore special than someone who takes one with a compound. We do not handicap ourselves because we shoot trad, it is just a choice. Shawn
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Well put Shawn!!!
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Haaa! Human nature.Instead of preventing,people tends to scream for help once knee deep in! :dunno:
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I would wager to say that if a study where done looking at total prep time per equipment trad would be at the top by far. Thats just the nature of the beast. Has nothing to do with making anything more special.
Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes " There's more fun in hunting with the handicap of the bow than there is in hunting with the sureness of the gun"- Fred Bear
The handicap is the fun for me.
Rob
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Lets face it! Trad shooters just enjoy shooting their bows,I think much much more than compounders! Therefore I agree with Fred on this one.
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I agree with Rob W. If you took a cross section of traditional Vs. Compounders. You would have more preparation on the Trad side. There are outliers in both instances but overall I think Trad guys spend more time in the woods with there equipment. Case in point. I don't have one buddy who shoots compound that does any stump shooting. All of my trad friends do on a regular basis.
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I am a dedicated Trad shooter most of the year.We have a great Trad group at my archery club and personally shoot several times a week . Now I take the compound for deer season.Trad bow is not as deadly in my hands for something as important as not wounding a deer.
Hate to leave the Dye, Hummingbird on the rack this time of year , but that is my choice.Enjoy the season guys, Roy
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Originally posted by Shawn Leonard:
I have to disgree with Greyfox54, it is not about the gear a hunter chooses, it is how committed they are to hunting. I just don't think what we shoot defines us as a hunter. Why is taking a deer with my recurve anymore special than someone who takes one with a compound. We do not handicap ourselves because we shoot trad, it is just a choice. Shawn
I think its more "special" because its harder.I also think we do handicap ourselves when compared to other methods of hunting.
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Never really thought much about it but you;re right Fred. See it every year myself. Too many cmpndrs get hot a month or so before season. WalMart gearhead sales go nuts. No problem as that's the advantage of sights & hi-tech. Said before, not better maybe but far luckier to physically/mentally enjoy shooting my trad longbows all year long.
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A dedicated hunter is a dedicated hunter, no matter the weapon or quarry. Some waterfowlers spend most of the year working on decoys, blinds, dog training, etc. Others gather up their stuff the night before opening day. Some turkey hunters spend their off season scouting, trying to find a tighter patterning gun/ammo combo, the right decoys. Some don't pick up their guns until a couple of days before they go out. Some compounders are in leagues, shoot 3D, and practice throughout the offseason. Others get ready a few days before the opener. A fair number of trad shooters have not decided on, and practiced with, an arrow/broadhead combo a week before the first day. Others are ready months in advance and won't change anything about their setup.
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Sorry, wrong we are not handicapped by our equipment at all. If anything it makes us better hunters. No one will ever convince me I am any better or worst hunter because of the equipment I choose!! I am sorry but I could kill deer with a spear. I worked just as hard and played with my equipment more when I was a compound shooter only. I know guys who work very hard to kill deer and some could kill them with a rock, equipment has nothing whatsoever to do with the time and effort put into getting into position to make the kill! You knowing your equipment and how to use it, well that is called experience! Shawn
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You are only handicapped if you are a lousy shot, work to get close. Again we are not handicapping ourselves in the least bit. Do you think Fred and anyone else thought they handicapped themselves by shooting a stickbow, no they did not like the compound! It is only a choice, not a handicap. If you feel you are handicapping yourself, you should not be hunting with a stick as that is not fair to the animals we hunt. They deserve better!!! Sorry but maybe that is why a lot of guys never kill anything with their sticks, they think they are handicapped by their bow!!!! Shawn
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Wow! :eek:
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Nope still don't agree. Look at any archery competition on earth and tell me where the trad guys shoot comparatively with the wheelie bows. I can comfortably, and ethically take a 50 yard shot with a compound. I would never dare to do that with my longbow. Is it a self imposed handicap? Yup, and I do it because it makes it more of a challenge. Am I saying its more special than killing one with a compound? Yes, to me it is I have to put hours in all year long to make it count in those few seconds. I not only have to scout harder so that I can place my stand/blind closer. But instead of pulling out my bow a few times a year to reacquaint myself with the sites and get them dialed in, I have to shoot nearly every day perfecting my form, release, and programming the mental computer. Either way, good luck to anyone hunting with legal equipment.
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Being handicapped is what makes us better hunters.Its harder to get close and that's what makes us better hunters.You are handicapped compared to a high powered rifle where you don't have to get as close.As far as what is fair to animals, I'll decide that. Noone else.Its also possible that GUYS never kill anything with their sticks, aren't simply out there to kill animals. :deadhorse:
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well said Brian.
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Somebody got a burr under his saddle! I think we would all starve to death if we could only eat if we killed a deer with a spear. Somebody is more confident...
I suppose a handicap in golf or bowling is not really a handicap either. It's just something that comes with our choice to be in a league.
Aw, what's the use.
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When I shot C bows I spent just as much time with practice as I do now . I just love to shoot and have taken more game with the trad gear then c bow. I also have become a much better hunter as well . Drew
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Originally posted by Jim from Maine, now in Kentucky:
Aw, what's the use. [/QB]
:dunno:
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Exactly but we choose to do that, how is that handicapping ourselves. Yes I do have burr under my saddle. If you feel shooting a trad bow is a handicap you should not be hunting with one, or feel it makes it harder than don't hunt with one. I would not shoot deer at 50 yards even with a compound, I strive to get close and I don't think that is a handicap at all! By the way you may all starve to death but myself and several friends I know would not the Native americans used atlatl and even spears to kill deer and Elk, as well as a stick and string. So I suppose before 68-69' all tose guys felt at a disadvantage to the gun hunters? That would of defeated the purpose and we would not of gotten our archery seasons. It was more of a challenge thats all, a good hunter is a good hunter, end of story. When I say hunter by the way I mean guys who actually kill stuff, not just sit or walk in the woods and say "Wow I had a great hunt today, I saw a blue jay and 3 squirrels!" Remember in the end, we are supposed to kill stuff! For the guys who disagree with, we than disagree to disagree, that is why when folks see us at these big shoots where compounders are present we are thought of as jokes, because of attitudes like those above. I tell the guys, we don't need to shoot 50 yards because we pride ourselves on getting close!! Shawn
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Horatio, whats the use?? This from a guy who has yet to kill a deer that I know of!! Drewsbow has it right!!! So Brian you say it is OK to go out and shoot at deer when someone cannot hit the broadside of a barn. I will not argue ethics as I believe everyone has their own but you should at least be proficient at shooting. Sorry but if you are not out there to kill something than by definition you are actually not hunting!! Shawn
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I chose to start shooting trad because it's much more difficult (challenging) than shooting a compound or gun. Seems like a handicap of sorts. Oh well, I like shooting....stumps or animals...it's all fun.
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@Shawn
Originally posted by Shawn Leonard:
Horatio, whats the use?? This from a guy who has yet to kill a deer that I know of!! Drewsbow has it right!!! So Brian you say it is OK to go out and shoot at deer when someone cannot hit the broadside of a barn. I will not argue ethics as I believe everyone has their own but you should at least be proficient at shooting. Sorry but if you are not out there to kill something than by definition you are actually not hunting!! Shawn
So a man's opinion is worthless in your eyes if he doesn't check his deer in with you? I Hunt all the time with no real intention in killing. sometimes I just hunt for peace and quiet or maybe just a little fresh air. But then... in your book I'm not a hunter, I guess I'm a looker. Sometimes killing isn't nearly as important as watching.
And yes I believe I puposely handicapped myself by choosing a stick and string. Handicapped as in.. making it a tougher hunt altogether, not because I can't shot.
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The first post talked about folks coming out of the woodwork at the last minute. You wouldn't believe how many people I see at the local Bass Pro buying new arrows and broadheads and even...bows with less than a week to go until the whitetail opener.
Three months ago when I decided to go hardcore and practice as much as I could there was nary a soulin the archery department. Two months ago there were a few buying and setting up bows. A month ago I could get a lane at anytime to shoot 6 days a week and was glad to find someone to shoot with. Now with a week to go there are so many people in the range and the department that you can hardly stand. Apparently preparation is a purchased item, not something hard fought for. The arrows I will take to the field this season have been re fletched 3 or 4 times in the last three months. Between outdoor practices, 3D events, and marathon indoor practices the feathers are taking a beating. Right now I am averaging about two and a half weeks on a set indoors shooting off the shelf. If I miss this year it will not be from lack of practice nor uncertainty in my gear; shooter choked.
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Im with Mr Fred and horatio on this one.
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wow this thread got hairy quick. my take on it is handicaped means its harder, no pins no peep sights just instinct. i got a pal who shot a whistlepig at 50yards with his compound (give or take a few) i wouldnt do that with my recurve. i also like to go out stumping and take 3-4 broadheads but highly doubt i will see something. but there is always that if.
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:D
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Your all kind of right but I think Shawn is more right. I know gun guys that hunt all year long and when not hunting thier at the range. And a trad bow is not a handy cap. Its just another way of doing it.
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Originally posted by Shawn Leonard:
Horatio, whats the use?? This from a guy who has yet to kill a deer that I know of!! Drewsbow has it right!!! So Brian you say it is OK to go out and shoot at deer when someone cannot hit the broadside of a barn. I will not argue ethics as I believe everyone has their own but you should at least be proficient at shooting. Sorry but if you are not out there to kill something than by definition you are actually not hunting!! Shawn
Uhhh...show me where I said its okay to go out and shoot at a deer if you can't hit the broad side of a barn.
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From Websters:handicap : an advantage given or disadvantage imposed usually in the form of points, strokes, weight to be carried, or distance from the target or goal
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Also from Websters:Definition of HUNTING
: the act of one that hunts; specifically : the pursuit of game
2: the process of hunting
Doesn't say anything about killing.
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Just for the rcord, wasn't trying to put a burr under your saddle Shawn.
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Some great points Shawn.
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I think about deer hunting with my bow all year, I would have to agree with Shawn on this one. In no way am I handicapped with a stickbow, in fact I have piled up more deer now than I did before heck I feel more confident with my bow than with a gun. I do see a lot of folks that put in little effort during the year and most of them get out of it what they put in it, zero! I can't wait to smell some broken cedar :thumbsup:
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This thread went in a totally different direction that I thought it would. I think some are confusing the definition of handicapp when used in a sporting type senerio and some would argue about anything.
I just thought it was funny how many people wait til the last second to get ready no matter what type of weapon. I would say that most of us have been getting ready since last season for this one and for that fact we may be getting a little nutty waiting. I know I am! :smileystooges:
Good luck to everyone and take a bunch of pics!
Rob
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Sorry Rob about the thread. I just get a kick out of these guys who never kill anything but they say they are hunters. The end of all means in hunting is to kill something, otherwise we should walk around with a camera. Why do ya carry a bow if ya have no intention to shoot anything, makes no sense to me. I take my Llwellen Setter out to work her in the fields before season, but when season opens I carry my shotgun or bow why cause I plan to shoot the birds she flushes. Keep doing as you like, but I plan to kill stuff with my bow, not just go out and talk about killing stuff as happens a lot obviously by some guys previous statements. I am done, no more responses from me as I now see how it is with some people. Funny I looked up the definition of hunting on line and most say the end means is to take game for eating or sport, boy thats funny!! Shawn
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Awful lot of assumptions going on here. We all know what "assume" means. :rolleyes:
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I understand it's harder to fly a jet plane than a Cessna, but I don't think that's considered a handicap for the jet pilot.
I started with stickbows in the early '60's, and bought a compound soon after they got popular in the late '70's. I bought into the "handicap" idea until had hunted with a compound for a few years and learned that even though I could hit stationary targets more often from farther away with the compound, for me it didn't translate into more dead deer. I learned that too much could happen on a shot more than about 25 yards away, and at that range and less the stickbow worked just as well, or better. Haven't hunted with a compound since the early '80's, and I don't think it's cost me any deer. If it has, I don't care. :)
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Each type of weapon used has it's limitations. Does it take a better hunter to get "bow close" rather than drop a deer at 100 yards or more with a gun? To a degree, yes IMO.
I have also seen guys get deer that had no experience and just lucked into too though.
I agree that far too many hunters, regardless of weapon choices, wait too long to practice...or scout...or get ready. Around here, the guns go nuts in the days before the opener. Some even at night...
Personally I have always tried my best to be ready. I have passed on gimme shots because I didn't feel I practiced enough, due to various reasons.
It is a personal choice. And I agree that we owe our best efforts to the animals we hunt.
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This is probably the best thread that I have ever seen on Tradgang.It really gets down to the nuts and bolts of what we are trying to do and why.Sorry if I had anything to do with it getting sidetracked.Normally I don't respond to stuff like this because I kinda march to my own drum.What makes this site great is that you can have a discussion like this without people getting too insulting.
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I have been biting my tongue a bit on this one but it is interesting.
Not to take anything away from any animal I kill but one taken with trad equipment is more special for me. I love to fill the freezer with a smoke pole because of a lot of reasons. I like to be out there with my less experinced family and friends and I love to cook!
With a bow in my hands what I take from the hunt is a little different. I then like to challenge myself for the close shot and I like the romance of a stick and string. Trad hunting for me is a bit more of a personal soul searching type experince that I only share with a few. When bowhunting I drive past three different tracts of private land to hunt pressured less deer dense public land. That just feels right to me also.
I provide meat with both ways just take different roads to get there.
Maybe handicap is the wrong word but I know what Fred Meant by it.
Rob
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Ditto rob . I think that too many people get ready too late for any thing in life ,look at our goverment.
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"Maybe handicap is the wrong word but I know what Fred Meant by it."
Agreed