Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: aquafang on October 30, 2011, 06:09:00 AM
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I switched to wensel woodsman broadheads about 4 years ago and have had nothing but bad results. I've lost more deer in the last 4 years then ever combined. i've made some great shots that I can' t figure out why this deer did not drop dead in 50 yds. and I just have not had good blood trails that I use to have with the two blade zwickey or bear broadhead I use to use. anyone share my problems?
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The buck in my avatar was killed with a WW. No problem at all. Pass through. Huge hole. Easy tracking even in the dark.
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I doubt its the broadhead and even though I don't use woodsmens I do use Montec G5's out of my compound and thats either the same cut or less and my deer with that don't go too far with all pass thrus.
I've seen pics of woodsman bloodtrails and they look like anything else I guess,,,, the one thing I've seen that you have to do to woodsmans is file the point down a little so it doesn't curl which might be your problem causing bad penetration.
my father had his theory on bloodtrails and this stems from when EVERYONE shot bear razorheads but some folks said there was bad blood trails and some others said it was buckets of blood..
my fathers theory was some deer herds carry more Fat than others and the fat is what closes the wound openings,, old school theory I know but who knows,, I personally think bad blood trails means dull head and good blood trails means scapel sharp (with me; if you cannot shave your face with your broadhead head its not sharp enough).
magnus 1's are a nice broadhead,, how about trying VPA's or even Centaur Battleaxe/biggame OR Abowyers. I never bought a pack of woodsmans after I bought a fresh pack of 6 screw-in 150's and they all wobbled I've avoided them since.
I use everything but.
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Wow! Something else going on there :dunno:
Killed a bunch of animals with them and some of the best blood trails you could ask for.
Tracy
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I've taken 4 deer with WW. 1 with the original and 3 with the elites. I also took 1 hog with an elite. Good blood trails on each one.
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Gotta just be a string of bad luck then. They are sharp! And no matter what anatomy pic u look at i wouldnt put it anywhere else. Some great placed shots. Trailed the deer for a half mile before losing trail! I've just lost confidence with them and without that things arent gonna get any better.
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Originally posted by K.S.TRAPPER:
Wow! Something else going on there :dunno:
Killed a bunch of animals with them and some of the best blood trails you could ask for.
Tracy
X2
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if those ww heads were SHARP, the problem is NOT at all with the broadhead .....
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(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n486/Shedrock1/IMG_0524.jpg)
I shot a nice 6x6 elk a couple years ago with an original Woodsman. This is part of the short 40 yard blood trail. (I watched the bull fall)
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Nothing wrong with the WW killin' capability. Are yours really sharp? Shot placement is the critical issue. If you hit BOTH lungs they will not go over 100 yards.
(http://i54.tinypic.com/244sfo5.jpg)
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Sometimes I think we really dump a lot of brainpower on what type of broadhead to use, when really what matters is a well placed shot with a sharp broadhead.
Here's the result of a WW shot (I have another similar pic from the next season), but honestly any point on the end of my arrow would have done in this situation.
(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z135/jrvalc/100_0503-1.jpg)
-Vig
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Like everyone else I have had great blood trails with them .
If your not happy or confinent with them change back and hunt with zwickeys again .
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I can't imagine the problem is all related solely to the broadhead either. But, I think if I had the problems while shooting the Woodsman that you have had, I would switch to another head. If the only thing you changed was the broadhead, 4 years ago, and you've had this poor string of luck, then change back to your old heads or pick another new one.
Mike
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Blaming the bh is simply rediculous!
I'd bet your "great shots" weren't so great.
It's all about shot placement..plain and simple!
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If you tracked it a half mile, it wasn't the shot you thought it was. It's happened to me this year. In the fraction of a second a shot takes place your eyes can play slot of tricks. What looks like a broadside shot could be quartering to slightly and be the difference between a double and single lung. And recovery or not.
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ya I've had good blood trail with my ww and lots of meat in the freezer. I'd have to day its just BAD LUCK. Go back to the good luck two blades.
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I've only shot one animal with a WW. It was my first turkey. The problem was on my end. I hit him low and back and he flew away. Found him under a tree and finished him off. That said, I thought I had those broadheads sharp. Which they were, but, I aquired some Bear broadheads through St. Judes. I've gotten those shaving sharp and have them loaded in my quiver.
Either way, you have to be careful when placing blame. There are so many variables to take into account. Just my thought.
-Jeremy :coffee:
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If you have lost faith in the heads go to a differnt head that YOU like. Do not stick to one because of the name.
Tune the bow with the heads and make the hit where it needs to be.
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These broadheads are sharp and I've had great success with them pver the last few years.
This year I have taken 4 does with this head. I spined one, broke both front shoulders on another, and double lunged the other two.
I have noticed a difference in quality of some of these broadheads.
This lack of quality I speak of is that when you lay the broadhead on a flat stone, the entire head does not lay flat. Not getting the entire head on the stone, doesn't allow the head to be as sharp as possible.
The heads need to be sharpened out of the package, they are not ready to hunt with. When you can shave hair from your arm, then they are sharp enough.
I have hunted these heads with the tip ground down and also stock. It doesn't matter.
If you are tracking a half a mile, you should look at your shot placement. 3/4s up the front back leg - broadside.
Good luck.
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What Steve said.
A "great" shot with any broadhead will result in a recovered deer. What you are experiencing is not a broadhead issue.
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In your similar thread from 2010,you said:
"Last night I got a good kill with one. deer went about 50 yds. and fell dead. just comparing the last 3 seasons with these broadhead"
In this one,you say:
"I switched to wensel woodsman broadheads about 4 years ago and have had nothing but bad results."
I'm confused.
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Have to agree with what has been said above especially with the 1/2 mile track. If you double lung a deer with a field point it wont go a 1/2 mile.
Been piling up venison, pork and bear with WW's since before thay were publicly available and as long as I do my job they have never let me down.
For the record I have never done anything to the tips until they have shot or missed a few critters and needed tuning up. Personally I like the needle point but everyone has an opinion about it.
I have killed deer with about every COC type head out there and if I only had one shot that had to count there would be a Woodsman on the business wnd of my arrow for any game animal.
All that said, I think "equipment confidence" is paramount to hunting success. If you think your bow, arrows, glove/tab, heads wont get the job done while sitting in the woods you are cutting your odds in half at least. Go with the heads that bring you confidence - there are dozens to choose from. If you don't want them anymore and want to improve your broadhead karma I will happily take them off your hands? Seriously
Bob Urban
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Thanks for all the input. I am not blaming the head i guess. I just have not had the luck i did with 2 blade. I shoot trad bows @ or around 45#. Do you think 2 blades were giving me better penetration? I have had several one lungers but never the string of bad luck i've had with the woodsmans. I think it is all a coincidence and it is starting to get to my head. I use to just draw shoot and kill. Now I'm thinking about every step as it happens. And all of you know what happens when we think things out. I'll finish out the season with them and see what happens.
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It's possible.I'm sure some guys with 45# bows get pass throughs with the WW heads but 2 blades could give you better penetration.Other things like arrow weight and not so perfect arrow flight can reduce penetration and a multiple blade head may just be pointing it out.
Good luck with it.
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the woodsman was designed specifically for "lighter weight" trad bows. it's been successfully used throughout all of north america on game as large as moose and buffalo - terry green used a ww to kill a one ton buff - it's been to africa and back with tons of meat and horns in tow.
i use standard woodsmans pretty much exclusively and have had good success on a few hogs with it. it makes a mighty good hole, and lots blood. but the shooter still needs to hit a right spot.
so ... if the broadhead is killing sharp, then it ain't a problem with the broadhead.
physical things happen as we get older. might need to regroup, rethink yer shooting, and best practice some more.
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I have no complaints with the WW head either.
I killed a caribou, whitetail buck and doe with the SAME HEAD! They sharpen fairly easy and fly like a field point for me.
As said already,shot placement and sharp broadhead is everything.........Good Luck
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In kill and cow elk and trukey , deer , pig with the same ww head . None of the trials were over 50 yd and 3 of them was kill with my 53@28 hill longbow with wood arrows that weight in at 580 gr And the pig was kill with a boblee
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I Have been using WW's for 3 years now, Elites this year. I have had no problems. Good bloodtrails, great arrow flight, good penetration, about all you could ask for in a broadhead,
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oh yeah, that's another good point about ww's - their near 3:1 helps them to fly really well. at least for me. and with a three blade, i don't care about blade orientation on the arrow as i would with twin blade.
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My last 2 hogs where shot with WW ...no problem!
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Just shot a doe last week with ww she went 20 yards love these heads.
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My wensels have had the opposite effect for me. Unfortunately, I have had two poor shots on deer that I thought were going to be awful tracking jobs. Thankfully the ww's put both of them down in a short amount of time and the animals were recovered. I trust it's effectiveness.
Mh
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Be careful no to "over-think". You shouldn't be breaking down a shot sequence when you're shooting at game. Let muscle memory and instinct take over--each a result of good practice. I'd recommend doing some serious stump shooting and shoot whatever you have the most confidence in! Your equipment should be an extension of yourself.
Good luck brother!
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Certainly something more than the broadhead going on. I've used WW for years with nothing but great results when I do my part. As well as some good results even when I don't do my part. They are an excellent head - no question about that.
Other factors must be coming into play. Arrow tuning, shot placement, sharpness... Something else is happening to give you the results you have been getting.
That being said, a two blade will do just fine as well, and if it gives you more confidence, go for it.
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I will suggest that you do the following:
Check your arrow flight
film yourself shooting from different angles
(find the errors)
fix the errors
take a walk-back shooting a paper-plate
find your comfort zone
Shooting a bow is something that is in constant change:
your brain is always trying to make repeatedly operations more effectively and might make some shortcuts that you never is aware of before you try to look after them.
(the worst cases of this is called target panic and believe me then you will be aware of them)
I`m not saying that you have the TP but only that you should check your shooting sequence for errors or shortcuts.
You know a small torque or a drop or lift of bow-arm or a to aggressive release might give you bad arrow-flight and hitting wrong places.
So in short as a good friend of mine would have said it:
Back to the drawing board !
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I am with Curt on this one Shot placement and a sharp head are key!!
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Perhaps you are taking up the blood trail too fast. Even a deer hit in a good place can run a looonnnggg way before dying. Made that mistake one time with a lung hit on a nice buck.
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No complaints from me.....from bunnies to bison.
Your problem is not the Bhead.
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You may want to look somewhere else in your setup instead of bashing a long time proven broadhead.
P.S. Just a thought, didnt mean this to sound to harsh.