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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: kykiller on November 01, 2011, 12:23:00 PM
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Lets here your opinions? Pro's? Con's? A couple of years ago I bought a pants jacket set of windceptor fleece in natgear camo and really like it. I think the light tones and material make it blend in well just about anywhere and it is super quit on those cold, crisp, still mornings. I almost went with some wool camo but it didn't feel as nice on my skin. Here in KY when it gets down in the 30's I where the fleece with no longjons. It don't bother me at all, and I thought the wool would itch. All that being said I typically buy camo based on material that makes me comfortable based on the weather (poly. or leafy wear for summer, wool, fleece,etc for winter), and price.
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:campfire:
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I too got the nat gear windceptor jacket and pants and they are the bomb. I wear some minus33 basepayers underneath and I am set for the most part. Add a neck gaitor and a kidney belt with heat packets and I am really set.
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Fleece is pretty useless if it gets wet. It's also dangerous around a campfire. Wool stays warm no matter what, although I agree it's not what I want on bare skin. I can't imagine having any of my outer layers against bare skin, though. That's not what they are for.
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the funny thing is I have been just as cold as I've ever been wearing wool. Just the truth. If folk think they are going to put on a wool sweater and a wool jacket and they are going to just be roasting they got another thing coming, especially when the winds starts cutting you.
yes, it may have great wicking properties, not stink as bad, and not reflect light, but tons warmer than all the other things, not so.
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I disagree in polarfleece being usless if wet. Mine sheds water as well as wool and I have hunted in the rain with it twice so far this year.
But that said, wool is my favorite when it is cold.
I use polarfleece over a wool sweater this time of year and poly bibs. When it gets cold I go wool bibs and wool on top with wool as layers and a poly wind-blocker vest for my torso.
PS - Fleece is wool still on the sheep. :D Polarfleece is synthetic fibers.
Spencer - my string silencer consultant.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Stumpkiller/HPIM2525.jpg)
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I like spencer...he looks honest...as in he'd honestly boot your butt over the fence!
I've read 2 Shorts adventures trapped inside a burning plywood shack and how wool saved his hide where poly would have melted him into oblivion.
I still find poly fleece (made from recycled 2 liter soda bottles I'm told) has kept me warm wet or dry...but, not the least bit in the slightest breeze.
guess everthing depends on how it was woven. I've had wool that required a down payment on me that I immediately gave back...wind went thru like a picket fence!!
I have a Cabella's poly "windproof" jacket that is so warm, you can't wear it unless it's zero and blowing like 60!
I've ALWAYS read that wool will retain heat when wet... I've been soaked in wool... in MT actually when lived there and I was pretty danged cold...sought me a hillside outa the breeze, built me a stump pine tree fire and dried all my clothes or feared I'd have hypo thermed...
It all confuses the bejabbers outa me...
So, Stumpy, does Spencer answer emails cause I got questions... obviously! :)
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I agree that fleece does do fairly well in wet weather. It tends to shed water in light rain but once it gets soaked it's very wet. I will ad that another advantage to the fleece is that you can almost shake it dry by giving a few stiff shakes.
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Yea I agree, try shaking out your wool pants when they are soaked then try shaking out the fleece. Wool can take a long time to get dry in a camping situation whereas the fleece will dry rather nicely. Fleece definately needs a wind barrier though.
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What about actual weight difference. I have an old wool set and I swear it weighs 40 pounds.
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Wool outer wear requires less overall bulk than the synthetics do, {talking about maintaining core body temps}, especially if you are not using "any" type of water/wind barrier, which depreciates the breathability factor too much for me. With wool I just adjust my long johns for the conditions. With synthetics I have to layer up quite a bit more than when I have all wool on.
Sleeping Indian Wool "Shirt," Wool Pant, and a Wool hat, proper longjohns for conditions, presto, good from +75F to -20F, if the wind is howling and I'm Sitting, I'll put on the Wool vest with the wind liner, haven't needed it yet.
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I have found that in dry weather both work well, in slightly wet weather both are good; when it starts to rain heavily only wool is going to stand up and keep you comfy. Your experience could be different.
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I love wool - not only for hunting but everyday. For hunting, I wear both wool & polarfleece... sometimes even layered together. Whatever combination I think will work best for any given day.
I've also got some of that Wooltimate stuff that Cabela's sells (wool/fleece blend with windproof lining)... I have to admit, that stuff is really warm.
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Originally posted by Kapellmeister:
I've also got some of that Wooltimate stuff that Cabela's sells (wool/fleece blend with windproof lining)... I have to admit, that stuff is really warm.
Me too. I wish they made bibs in that stuff!
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most fleece i have worn sheds water good plus it light and drys fast! wool dont. packs easily. you can compress it. big deals if you pack you stuff in long ways. only down side ther is to fleece is over time it pills. and if its windy and its not windbreaker the air goes rite through it. now it does wool too but not as bad. best bang for your buck on wool is ll bean. all i wear. for the price it can't be beat. camo too
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Originally posted by Doc Nock:
So, Stumpy, does Spencer answer emails cause I got questions... obviously! :)
He reads 'em but he's "Baaaaaaa"d about answering them.
I have to get a more recent image. He's getting some bad a$$ horns (four - he's a Jacob's). I tell THE ADMIRAL I'm going to use him for an exotic sheep bowhunt. Then She says stuff the forum won't print.
He and his girls (Daisy & Lilly) also keep me in socks and I think he's made a deal with Santa for me to get a sweater. ;-)
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Originally posted by Jeff Strubberg:
Fleece is pretty useless if it gets wet. It's also dangerous around a campfire. Wool stays warm no matter what, although I agree it's not what I want on bare skin. I can't imagine having any of my outer layers against bare skin, though. That's not what they are for.
Yup, wool will still keep you warm when wet.
Millions of sheep can't be wrong. :D
I honestly think no man made fabric is better than wool.
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I have Cabe**s Legacy Fleece with windshear. It has the least bulk/weight to warmth ratio I have ever used. It is water resistant and you can get it in waterproof but it probably wouldn't be bowhunting quiet. To be fair I haven't tried wool. Never felt a need to. Being from Alabama it don't get below 10 deg. very often and the mean temp is around 35deg. The Legacy fleece jacket and pants only cost around $140.00. I have NEVER been cold in it. I used two weights of longjohns acording to the weather. I use the ECWS thermals anytime the weather is below 35 deg. and lighter weight longjohns for warmer temps. I'm not sure how well it would work in northern climates but for central Alabama it cant be beat and the price point is good too.
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My problem with fleece, is that its polyester. And polyester doesn't breath, therefore I sweat like crazy.
Polyester came out when I was a kid, and it was marketed as a miracle fabric; it doesn't need to be ironed, or taken to the dry cleaners.
Then everybody figured out that it was like wearing a plastic bag. That was the end of Leisure Suits!!
Maybe somethings wrong with me, but I don't see how anybody can stand polyester, no matter how its woven.
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I dont know what Cab**as does with their fleece but the garments do breath good. I know what u mean about the leisure suits. Embarrasingly I had one.
Read up on it and it's the winshear that makes the garment breath. Like I said I have never worn wool and am only telling what I have found about this particular garment!
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Comparing fleece to wool is like apples and oranges. I consider the weather when I think of fabrics to wear hunting. Hot to cold, my ranking system would be cotton, fleece, wool. And with so many light and mid weight wool offerings, i pretty much ignore fleece.
There is some high quality fleece that seems like it's pretty good stuff, but no way is it BETTER than wool.
I have worn wool in some very ugly conditions, and it has never let me down. I suppose if I lived and hunted in the South, my opinion would be different, but up here, for me it is wool, wool, wool.
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Originally posted by Jeff Strubberg:
I can't imagine having any of my outer layers against bare skin, though. That's not what they are for.
I hate wearing tight clothes, When and if it gets cold enough I wear my under armor cold gear as my base layer. The reason I like the windceptor fleece is because I can wear it by itself almost all winter, but when it gets down in the mid to low 20's I have to add the coldgear. Last year in Dec the windshield was between 8 and 15. And I wore the cold gear base layer, sweatshirt, windceptor fleece pants, vest, jacket, with a fleece beenie, and fleece hand warming tube. Woody Max Boots with 1 pair of wool socks. I hunted 3 days in a row daylight till dark. The only thing that got cold was my face and my hands got cold when deer came in and I stood ready to shoot. It normally doesn't get any colder than that around here. If it does it doesn't last long.
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For cold weather, can't beat wool. Wool has a protein in it that containes a natural anti bacterial that helps out in the body odor area.
If you don't want to smell like the butt of a goat on a longer trip, go with wool. Fleece for those guys that like the smell of the butt of a goat... ;)
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Woll for me. I have KOM wool that i have had for 15 years and it still looks brand new. Love the fact that I hang it outside for aday and it is scent free. I was caribou hunting back in 1997 and got caught in a rain storm about 5 miles from camp trying to find a caribou when there wasn't any and if I didn't have wool on I think I would have had hypothermia on the way back. The wool kept me very warm all the way to camp.
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Originally posted by Shedrock:
Yup, wool will still keep you warm when wet.
Millions of sheep can't be wrong. :D
I honestly think no man made fabric is better than wool.
I agree....100% when its good quality tight weave fabric....merino next to the skin helps a lot also.
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Both are great. Wool stays wet forever but retains some insulation value when wet. Fleece will melt to you in a fire and some of it will burn like crazy. Fleece drys a lot quicker. I really like wool it just has a good natural feel to it and it's comfortable in a wide range of temperatures. Wool tends to be expensive except for surplus stuff which can be really good and cheap.
Chuck
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I love how wool interacts with sunlight, fleece has a unnatural sheen to it. One does not need to wear a wool "coat" for the bennies. As a mater of fact a wool shirt from Sleeping Indian, First Light, or KOM will serve one quite well. Buyer beware, "tight weave," as some say, can be nothing more than a nylon mesh net with wool chemically bound to it, good in the wind and Antarctica, won't see much use for calmer -20deg days, especially if your on the move.
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Good topic guys.
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Wool for me, nothing else!
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sorry had to comment im know expert but i have been decked out in fleece and talk about sweat got back to the hut and i was PONKY!!!!! The next day it bucketed down with rain got soaked the fleece got heavy and i was bloody cold. How ever a couple good shakes can get alot of water out of fleece. Wool i have worn wool for 10 days straight and didnt stink that is a big plus for me. Wool works with your body if you arnt walking much it just keeps you warm as you walk it heats up with you but not so much to make you sweat like a pig. Wool keeps me warm when wet and isnt a fire hasard the only reason i found out about that is "TOO SHORT" telling me about his cabin incident. The one BAD thing about wool is that it gets heavy when wet and it sucks when you jump out of your tent in the morning nice and warm to have to put on a wet woolen jacket that smells a little like wet dog. I dont care if its itchy never bothers me much. So my vote WOOL....
"MOOSE"
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Don't take my post wrong...Fleece definitely has its place...I wear it a lot...but when it cold...I mean plumb made dog cold...Wool is where its at...yaknowwhatImeanVern?
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knowwhatyamean...fursure
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What Shedrock said in his last statement X 10 !!!
Wore fleece and other man made fibers for years before wearing wool. Wool for me now ! Love the huge comfort range and breathability of wool. With a windliner it cannot be beat. JMHO
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Wool is heavy, especially if it does get soaked. Wool takes forever to dry. Wool is not so easy to clean (except let it dry on and brush it off). Synthetics are light, one shirt I have I gave to my wife because it was too hot. I could take it off and shake it and get nearly all of the water out, if it got wet. But. . .
after all of that, I still wear wool in the winter because it works, very well.
It doesn't sound weird when sneaking, it doesn't shine when light hits it, I don't tend to sweat and stink as I do with the synthetics,
and last. .
I kinda like the way I look in wool plaids !
ChuckC
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Wool for me, the cockle burrs sure love it to. When the wind is really blowing wax impregnated cloth cuts pretty darn good.
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Wool is where its at....and I venture to say Ive used about everything. I used to shy away from wool mostly due to the price. Good wool is not cheap....but worth every penny once you start wearing it. With wool, I dont have to layer like I do with fleece. Wool stops the wind better too. If you have fleece, it has to have windstopper in it....and windstopper is NOISEY! Although its wool for me, I will say this......dont matter what your wearing: if you are a long time sitter and stand hunter, nothing is going to keep you toasty if you arent moving! Sit still for a while, you'll freeze when its cold....period!
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The funny part about these answers are that the best way to wear wool or fleece is fleece against the skin and then wool. Fleece dries fast so it wicks sweat away from the body, wool dries from the inside out so it just takes the sweat from the fleece and pushes it out.
My vote therefor goes for fleece under wool.
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I think it depends for wool on what type, I personally prefer the merino close to my skin and then I can use any layer on top to move about. For me I find even polypro holds my seat after day more than I would like. I do have fleece pants that i bought but they are so warm it has to be like crazy cold for me to need them. So the only time I have worn them is while hunting for coyotes out in blizzards.
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There are loads of different wools, wool treatments, polarfleeces and polarfleece treatments. As someone noted early on in this thread a wool that has been felted is a LOT more wind resistant that an open knit. There are also multiple weights, fiber lengths, waterproofing left in (lanolin), removed or chemically replaced. And the synthetic fleece products have similar: "micropores" that breathe but don't allow rain, Dupont 333 waterproofing or similar, etc., etc. You can't just make a wool or synthetic statement that covers all. There is some pretty bad wool out there, and some pretty good synthetic fleece.
However. The "good" wool is great stuff.
And you can quote Spencer on that.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Stumpkiller/HPIM2675.jpg)
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If you could only sweet talk Spenser into doing some writing for us!
I do believe that if spenser could type he would say that not all wool is created equally. The various grades of wool and how they are spun and woven all play a part in warmth, durability and wind blocking ability.
I want wool that breaths...I want to feel a heavy wind blow through. That keeps me dry when I'm moving! I also wear silk and merino under my shirts and pants. If the wind is an issue I either wear a wind break outter garment like my Caaabelas rain gear when it isn't real cold or a tight weave/crushed wool coat when it is real cold.
You have to understand the type of wool you are buying and its indended purpose.
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I use and love fleece with windstopper when it is dry out. Once the rain hits the fleece gets put away and the wool comes out for the long wet west coast winter. Wet fleece is completely useless, partially wet fleece is completely useless. Wet wool on the other hand still helps keep you warm. If your going to get wet there is really no decisions to be made, wool for sure. If it is dry then fleece is a viable option.
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I do not have any experience wearing wool, but I have worn fleece a lot. My back ground with it is with the military and its issued items. I worked on a flight line and we flew year round. I also had a motorcycle at the time and it was my only mode of transportation.
What I learned early on is that you have to layer fleece correctly. When I had fleece early on in my career I wore it as a stand alone item and I froze my but off. It, like many others have said, does not cut wind. I have since changed how I layer.
All my gear was issued and I liked it so much I purchased my own items. I liked it that much. So for my first layer is a shirt that is almost spandex. It is sort of like the under armor stuff. Its form the F.R.O.G. line of USMC clothing. Its 75% modacrylic 10% Spandex 10% polyester and 5% X-Static. It was designed to be flame retardant. The next layer is my favorite layer. We call it waffle shirt. It is also part of the F.R.O.G. line. I do no know what its made of but it is awesome. This is the most versatile part of my system. I use it from 50 deg down to 30 deg with a jacket. It keeps me warm! The next layer is fleece. I have 2 fleeces. One is thin and one is thick. They both are polartec. The thin one I use when deer hunting because it is less bulky. The thick one is used on those occasions where it is extremely cold. The wind kicking layer I use depends on what I am hunting. If it is deer it is a jacket that is quiet but cuts the wind. For the waterfowl hunting I do, and depending on the temp (which where most of this hunting is done it is cold cold cold) I use a heaver jacket but is not quiet at all.
My legs dont get cold easily. I have a pair of polartec pants that are amazing! I throw a pair of pants (denem) over the top for some wind protection. Over that for deer goes a pair of normal bibs from cabelas. If I am waterfowl hunting I have neoprene waders on.
My feet are another story. They sweat in sandals. I have a wicking layer on and wool socks but after 4 hours my feet are cold. I always have to wring my socks out after a hunt. I can not get the feet part right. I always show up to a hunt in sandals and no socks and change to my boots when I get there. That extends the cold from hitting my feet early on.
I wear a spandex like neck gator that keeps the wind, snow, and rain off my neck and ears. On top of my head I wear an all fleece bennie that keeps my head toasty.
This gear has been worn in all types of weather conditions and in different combinations. The coldest I have rode my motorcycle was a day where it was a-11 wind chill day. I had a steady speed of 60mph. The ONLY thing that got cold was the tip of my nose. It was on a dual sport bike, not one with heat. (I know its not bow talk but cold is cold, and on my bike is where I test my cold weather gear).
The coldest day hunting I have had was duck hunting and it was 0 deg with winds at 20-25mph. I was not cold at all.
Hope it helps and I hope I can try some wool one of these days.
Kyle
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I have had many a pleasant day wearing my old cheap, sweating, fire hazard,stinkin fleece. If any of you have some XXL for sale I might be interested. Killed a few deer with that old cheap stuff on too. If its raining too hard I'm at camp touching up bheads or maybe stirring up some chili so downpours are not a problem.
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I like both and my reason already been stated by other. Both are better then cotton.