Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: lunchbucket on December 30, 2011, 12:17:00 AM
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I was wondering is there a reason why some bows have a center cut on the riser and why some are cut past the center?Is there advantage one has over the other or does it have to do with the type of bow your shooting?
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It makes it easier to tune arrows to the bow'center cut or a little pst are more forgiving as far as arrow selection is concerned.
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So if it's cut past center its more forgiving when tuning arrows?
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Correct. :thumbsup:
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Not only is it more forgiving, it also will allow the use of an array of spines, according to what you want to accomplish
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Yes, cut past center can be a bit easier, but can sometimes be detrimental if the arrow is too far inside the string.
I'm not in agreement that a wider range of spined arrows can be utilized out of the same bow, without changing something on the arrow or the bow. The arrow is either tuned to the bow properly, or it isn't.
A bow that isn't cut to center can be tuned to shoot quite accurately. You just have to know the in's and out's of what affects the dynamic spine of an arrow.
- Dave
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Like pinelander said.A bow that isn't center cut you need to know the ends and outs of tuning.Normaly you have to go with weaker spine for these bows.
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I love cut past center bows. I wish everyone would use a riser big enough to allow that option.
I like certain arrow weights and sizes and it allows me to tune the bow to the arrow as well as the arrow to the bow.
I see no negative in having cut past center.
SL
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Most will tell you center cut or past center cut is better. In most cases they are right.
The draw back is for shooters with long draws and really a problem if you have a long draw and want to shoot a bow with a higher draw weight.
Incase your saying whaaaaat????
Long draws require stiffer spines. Add in the fact that if you like a heavy draw weight then finding a shaft with enough spine is tough.
To solve this the longdraw, heavy draw weight shooters should look at bows with sight windows that are at most cut to center.
Just another look at things...
Troy
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You can always add a toothpick or something similar under the sideplate to get your arrow away from the sight window and that will be the same as less center cut.
But try to cut out the sight window further for more center cut.....that's a little more complicated. :)
Blacky
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How is the A@H ACS risers cut. I bought a new one and i have a 30in draw and it took me and Rod Jenkins 4 hours to get that thing to shoot straight.
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I have grown to prefer cut to center at most, and if it's shy of center that is fine with me. It allows me to shoot the heavy points I favor without having to use high spine arrows, so high FOC is easy to attain.
The shallower shelf bow can be a bit pickier to tune, but once you hit the right combo they seem to be more forgiving. The last "cut past center" bow I bought ended up with the shelf built out to 1/8" short of center and there it stays. :D
To each his own. :archer2:
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The ACS is cut generously past center. When Rod loaned me his ACS some years ago, guess how the sideplate was setup? It was built OUT where it was actually cut TO center. There can be problems in shooting consistency if arrow is set too far IN.
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If the riser is cut past center you can tune the riser to your arrows (like Blacky said) instead of vice versa. Having a sight window cut well past center is the ONLY way to go. You can always build it out if your arrows are too weakly spined.
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I have several bows that are cut 3/16" past center. As it stands now, all have had the sight window built out to no less than 1/8" before center. I did this when I started working up high FOC arrows. Now that I have them set this way I doubt I will ever own another bow that is cut more than 1/8" before center. Tuning isn't a problem and I still have a wide range of shafts to pick from.
Troy
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I have pretty much come to the conclusion if a bow isn't cut to center or a bit past..... It won't stay !!. The Kanati's I have for instance seem to shoot anything from a drink straw to a broomhandle equally well... ;) . I do have several bow that are cut out from center, and are keepers for what they are. But for ease of tuning and forgiveness the center or past ones are the pick.
Froggy
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I cannot imagine anyone having a problem tuning a bow simply because it is cut 3/16 past center.
I cut all mine 3/16 past center unless the customer wants something different. Then I cut it where he wants it. '
The typical comment I get is that these types of bows with cut past center windows are the easiest bows that the shooter has ever tuned. Most grab the arrows that they have been shooting. Spine right or not and hit center of target straight out of the box.
Like Mike said its easy to pad a window out but kind of hard to cut the sight window deeper on a bow that is not made to do that.
God bless you all and have a Great New Year, Steve
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Yea, "easier" seems to be the overwhelming choice these days. Must have been a royal pain for archers when there were very few bows cut past center, except for those metal-handled ones. :D
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Past center or before center, now I'm CONFUSED. My Robertson Styk bows are said to be cut past center, for a right handed shooter, I thought that meant more material left on the shelf or strike plate,well i guess the strike plate to exact left of centerline would mean it is past center working from right to left for the right handed bow or before center working from the left. Is there standard of terminology. Could some PLEASE inform.
Aloha and Happy New Year,
Hookster
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A bow cut past center can easily be built out in the direction of center.
A bow that is cut to center or short of center cannot be adjusted past center.
Why would anyone want to limit his options in this regard? Makes no sense to limit.
Mark
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Hookster.
If you center the string to the limbs of the bow and you are a right handed shooter you will see how the sight window is cut. If you have space on the right side between the shelf and the string and the string is centered to the limbs then the bow window is cut (Past center.
If the sight window and the string line up then you are cut to center.
God bless you all, Steve
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my bow is "nearly" center cut had a time tuning an arrow to it. ended up with a light spine arrow and a very heavy head. Is this the norm,... just learning
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Wildwood. The arrow has to bend around the bow in order to come into line of sight. If you look down the arrow and line the string up to the center of your bow limgs you will see that your arrow point is sticking out to the left.
The lighter spine and heavy head allow the shaft to bend aroung the bow.
When cut past center you can shoot a much heavier shaft with a lot less tuning process . At least that is my limited experience.
God bless you , Steve
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Originally posted by Pinelander:
Yea, "easier" seems to be the overwhelming choice these days. Must have been a royal pain for archers when there were very few bows cut past center, except for those metal-handled ones. :D
I don't think of it as 'easier' so much as 'more versatile.' I see a bow that can shoot a wider variety of arrow set-ups as a desirable characteristic, personally. And I'd like to believe that just because we've chosen a trad path doesn't mean that we've stuck ourselves in some particular era of the past, and that there isn't still room for innovation, variety and evolution....
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Pinelander , Perhaps philosophicly there is no right way or wrong way .
However in this case easier could be the right way.
Just because a bow is not cut to center or befor center does not mean that it is impossible to shoot it. However if a bow can be designed to be cut past center and accept a wider spine variety and shoot heavier weight shafts witout 500 gr. heads then what is wrong with that?
The way you said easier you make it sound like it is the sin of a lifetime to not do something the hard way. A thing no self respecting stick bow shooter should even consider unless he is incompetant.
That attitude has turned off way too many people that want to be trad shooters. And in my opinion at least, it is totally uncalled for. It is why so many people think that Stick Bow shooters are elitist. Sometimes we deserve it.
Why look down on folks that shoot recurves, longbows, self bows, D and r bows, flat bows, english long bows,. even , ILF metal handled bows. I had one of those myself , with a plunger back in the 60s.
I do not understand why some insist on putting down anyone that shoots a different bow than they approve of ,. Or why we do not even seem to be able to have a simple conversation about benefits , pros and cons of a sight window position without sarcasm amd put down. Its rediculous and little .
God bless you all, Steve
God bless you Steve
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Sixby,
Very well said,,,, as long as both side of the coin are excepted.
I stated that I personally wouldn't have another bow that wasn't cut before center.
From the way I read alot of post since mine it sounded as though several were saying I was a nut case for my choices.
I say shoot what you like and if someone else likes something different let them have it their way.
Personally I feel and hope Pinelander was making that statement toung in cheek.
Troy
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Yes indeed I was, Troy. :D
I've owned metal bows, ILF bows, cut past center bows, d-bows, hybrid bows, cut-to-center bows, belly mount-limbed bows, selfbows, new eye-candy bows, and older than dirt plain-jane bows. I have no disrespect for others' choices.
Bows that are cut 1/8" to 3/16" past center are good designs, but when cut 5/16" past center it is pretty much unnecessary since they usually end up getting built out anyway.
- Dave
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IF it can *safely* be done, no cons, all pros.
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X2 to Rob's post :archer2:
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Wow talk about getting educated the right way.This is why I joined TG to learn and understand the equiptment I use.Thanks!!!!
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Interesting! I have read that - and I don't know if it is true or not - since I have never built any bows myself - is that a bow SHOULDN'T be cut at exact 'center' because and arrow needs to be a hair OUT from center of the string - in the case of a RH shooter - the arrow point when viewed down the bow should be slightly OUT from the center of the string.
Is this an accurate assumption?
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Pinelander forgive my jumping to conclusions. I have so many people that shoot wheels tell me that we are a bunch of elitst snobs that its kind of become a touchy subject with me. I sincerely apologize to you sir.
I am sure that with your abundant experience that you have a lot of really great input into just about every subject concerning anything to do with a bow.
Troy , Indeed it does have to go both ways. I enen give that space to gulp, wheel shooters.
God bless you guys, Have a wonderful New Year, Steve
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Scoobie, your assumption is correct. It is best to avoid the arrow being directly inline with the string or to the right of the string (RH shooter).
But remember that the skinniest of skinny arrows is about 1/4" in diameter. So in that case, the skinniest arrow would be centered to the string with a 1/8" cut past center bow, but only if there was no sideplate material at all.
Since most arrows are 5/16" or greater in diameter, a 3/16" cut past center wouldn't result in the arrow being centered on the string.
The only time an arrow would be centered on the string or to the right of the string would be with a 5/16" cut past center and a very skinny arrow.
- Dave
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almost all metal handled recurves are cut past center and many, if not most, custom and manufactured bows are cut past center now...works for me
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Speaking strictly for myself, I prefer a bow that is cut 3/16" past center. They are the easiest bows to tune when I'm shooting different spined aluminum arrows.
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Troy im the same as you have a long DL and like to us a lot of weight up front i find center shot or a bit over is best Thanks Shane