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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Rob DiStefano on March 08, 2012, 06:34:00 PM
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It can be a deal buster at times swinging a 64" (or longer) longbow when up in a tree stand perch, on the hunt for critters. Or sitting in a compact ground blind. This is particularly true of hunt venues like Solana and those skitterish Texas whitetails. I was lucky this year in harvesting one, but there were at least a few times when trying to snake an arrow through a leafy tree branch hole can be limiting by the length of yer bow.
I recently took receipt of a prototype Bigfoot Sasquatch T/D longbow that Kirk dreamed up after we had a conversation about a short hybrid for a 29" draw length. He designed this bow around a 16" T/D riser, and mated a set of limbs that would yield a 58" total length that would work for a 29" draw length.
My goal was a 58" hybrid that would feel good to draw and shoot, and would give the added advantage of more arrow speed with a heavier arrow (for hogs) and also a flatter trajectory. This new Sasquatch does just that for me.
I spun up a 10 strand Dyneema'02 bowstring, tied on a nock point and settled in the brace height at 7-1/8". No time for adding Hush Puppy wool string silencers, that'll come some time later.
I took the little rocket launcher out to my fenced in side yard and grabbed handful of 600 grain, 29.5" woodies with judo points and big 5.25" full helical feathers, and took some 10 yard shots at an 18" foam block. The bow's bamboo core limbs draw very smoothly to 29" and offered near 52# holding weight. After a few settling in shots, those little feathered sticks were pretty much going where i wanted them to go at that short distance.
No sense in fooling around, I backed off to 30 yards and that's when this bow kicked in the afterburners. A real flat shooter.
The upshot is that I like this bow a lot. The craftsmanship and materials are top shelf and not to be exceeded. The compact hybrid longbow design is just fine for a 29" draw length: no finger pinch, smooth drawing and no stacking, really spits out the arrows. The slim handle fits me perfectly, and that's always important.
I suspect Kirk may be adding this Sweet 16 design to his bow model stable. A good thing. :thumbsup:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/bfs1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/bfs2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/bfs3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/bfs4.jpg)
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Thanks for the review Rob :) Sweet looking bow, can't wait to try one out eventually :)
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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This the kind of review I like to see here.Well done Rob,thanks for sharing. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Nice looking bow......Thanks for the review..!
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I always see Kirk's bows with lots of radius cuts and accent woods. It's interesting looking at this bow where you can just enjoy the grain of the wood and the curves that have been smoothed into it. That said, those are some really pretty belly ramps! Is it just me, or does this shorter riser put a little more aggressive angle on the limb mounting plane than the normal length Sasquatch riser?
Congrats Rob, sounds and looks like a great bow!
Thom
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Sweet Bow Rob, I love both of my Bigfoots. :clapper:
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Good looking bow Rob. Can't say that one looks like anything else out there.
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really nice looking bow Rob. :thumbsup:
High performance hidden in a simple and elegant form.
....jeez I can hardly wait for mine...lol
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Very nice bow,I am waiting for Bigfoot to show up at my place, after reading your review,Rob, it makes the wait even harder. LOL :thumbsup:
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Great stuff Rob. Look like Kirk has made another good one.
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I have a Sasquatch L/B, 62# at 29 IN. 60 in. in length. I cannot say enough good things about Kirk's bows. Bow review posted on Product reviews. Rob, good choice, you will love that bow.
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Great lines. Looks like you are on your way to becoming a recurve shooter... ;)
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Originally posted by sticksnstones:
I always see Kirk's bows with lots of radius cuts and accent woods. It's interesting looking at this bow where you can just enjoy the grain of the wood and the curves that have been smoothed into it. That said, those are some really pretty belly ramps! Is it just me, or does this shorter riser put a little more aggressive angle on the limb mounting plane than the normal length Sasquatch riser?
Congrats Rob, sounds and looks like a great bow!
Thom
First of all thanks for the great review Rob. :thumbsup: It always makes a little extra effort worth while. I've been procrastinating about coming out with a 16" riser on these things and Rob got me going on it. I like that "Sweet 16" tag you put on it bro... that one is going to stick I'm thinking. :clapper:
Thom, As to your question regarding fade angles. Nope.... the angles are the same.... BUT... the geometry is different believe it or not. even though you have the same length limb as the 60" model, the shorter string drawing the same 29-30" applies different leverage on the limb. if i take the same set of limbs and mount them on both the 18" and the 16" riser there is about 5 pounds difference. but more significantly it alters the stacking point. in order to get identical DFC charts and maintain the smooth draw, it requires shifting the wedges a bit and lengthening the working portion of the limb to accommodate a longer draw.
here is a crude drawing showing the two bow lengths. you really need to overlay circles at full draw to see the difference. but the 16" riser tightens up the radius considerably.
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Drawings/Fadeanglevslength.gif)
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SWEEET looking bow :thumbsup: Great review :archer2:
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Hi Kirk
So this is the bow you mentioned in your last email, I have been waiting for thir review very impressive looking bow. What are the timbers used in this one . Is the riser Ipe?
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Is it bad that my heart started beating faster when I was looking at that bow? Wow!
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Sweet Looking Bow Rob!
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Great looking bow, it has some great looking lines for a 16" riser and being 58" (love the wood) :thumbsup:
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I keep coming back to look at this bow it's getting harder & harder to decide on what i want with my new Sasquatch coming up in the end of May. Only two months to work it out!
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Nice review of a really good lookin bow! :thumbsup:
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Kirk, what are the advantages/disadvantages to the shorter riser and longer limbs? Performance? Stability? Besides preventing stack what are the pluses/minuses for a longer working limb? My number is coming up in a few months and curious. Great looking bow you lucky dog Rob.
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Kirk are you going to have recurve limbs avaible too?
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Can't wait to shoot one of those!
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Originally posted by katman:
Kirk, what are the advantages/disadvantages to the shorter riser and longer limbs? Performance? Stability? Besides preventing stack what are the pluses/minuses for a longer working limb? My number is coming up in a few months and curious. Great looking bow you lucky dog Rob.
The biggest advantage to shorter riser/ longer limbs is you get a shorter bow for tree stand or ground blind conditions Like Rob explained in his review.
Besides extending the stacking point, The longer working limb gives a smoother draw reflected in the mid portion of the DFC chart.There are many archers that will gladly trade off some speed for less pounds per inch in the mid section of the draw. That's why a lot of guys prefer a recurve limb to a long bow. they get that feeling of a let off in poundage at about 22 inches. I'm getting that let off out of my hybrid long bow limbs without leaving too much on the table in performance.
Kirk are you going to have recurve limbs avaible too?
i just took an order today for my first "Sweet 16" Sas recurve in a 62". Actually I've got several guys that have been waiting for me to get a shorter recurve going, and i think this shorter riser should do the trick. it will take a few limb lay ups and some testing to get the working limb length and placement established for different draw lengths. I may have to lay the pad angles back a touch for longer than a 30" draw too. but i'll get her figured out in short order... so the answer is yes. I'll have em dialed in good by mid summer.
Can't wait to shoot one of those!
Bjorn, Are you going to make the Western States Rendezvous in Petaluma Ca in May? I'm going to be there and set up a display. I should have a good selection of bows to try out. including another new long bow design called "The Flat liner".... that prototype review should be posting before too long.
i'm a seriously busy dude right now. :biglaugh:
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That's a great lookin' TD longbow you made for Rob, Kirk II.
I look forward to learnin' about THE FLAT LINER design as well.
Shoot straight, Shinken
:archer2:
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Kirk, how does the short riser affect the sight window?
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Looking at the pics of Rob's bow almost looks like a recurve strung at that brace. Lower brace less preload.
So tradeoff is a little less performance for more smoothness and a shorter overall length? Is that made up in the increase in draw length?
How does short riser/longlimbs effect shootability?
Thanks for being patient with me Kirk.
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Nice looking bow and great review Rob.
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Righto Kirk, that makes sense. Thanks for the pictures and education on that.
Thom
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Cant wait to see it buddy! Might even have to shoot it as well, I've been known to shoot righty once in a while :archer2:
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Originally posted by katman:
Looking at the pics of Rob's bow almost looks like a recurve strung at that brace. Lower brace less preload.
So tradeoff is a little less performance for more smoothness and a shorter overall length? Is that made up in the increase in draw length?
How does short riser/longlimbs effect shootability?
Thanks for being patient with me Kirk.
No problem Gery, You've got the right idea about a longer working limb having a bit slower arrow speed at shorter draw lengths due to more limb moving forward, which is more mass weight.
This is definitely mitigated by a longer draw length, and longer power stroke. This is why your average production line bow that safely draws to 32" performs pretty decent at 30", and average at 28", but dies on the vine at 26"-27". I build most my my bows "Draw length specific." to optimize performance at a specific draw lengths.
Now the part about a lower brace height having less preload isn't really much of a factor in aggressive r/d designs. Typically the amount of preload is built into the limb design in the form of reflex, and fade angle, and it isn't as critical on higher poundage bows as it is on bows 45#'s and under. a lower poundage bow will typically brace a bit higher to gain a bit tighter string though, and it helps quiet it down.
a really good example where brace height does effect preload is building a D shape long bow that draws 50 pounds at 32". This requires long sweeping reflex with longer limbs from 66-68" in total length. It would be advantageous to brace this bow at about 8" drawing 32". bracing it lower will not stop the limbs efficiently and produce hand shock. Now if you built the same bow at 50 @ 28" you could lower the brace to 6" and still have the same preload.
i hope that helps... Kirk
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Wow! This explains why all the Hill threads I see are talking about 6" to 6.5" brace. Seems like most guys shooting Howard's form are drawing 25-27 inches. I draw 31.5" and I shoot a 70" Hill most of the time. I never understood why, but when I brace at the "normal height" it won't shoot for me at all.
I've never admitted it in public, but I keep mine braced between 7.5 and 7.75 inches. (I've never been brave enough to take it to 8") It's fast and quiet so I just run with it. I'm not suggesting anyone else crank up their Hill, mine is out of warranty and I accept all responsibility to anything that happens shooting it setup this way.
Not to shanghai your Sasquatch thread with Hill talk, but I learn a lot from what you post here Kirk. Thank you!
Thom
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Got it, thanks so much Kirk.
If possible now I am more anxious about my upcoming build date.
Gery
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Originally posted by sticksnstones:
Wow! This explains why all the Hill threads I see are talking about 6" to 6.5" brace. Seems like most guys shooting Howard's form are drawing 25-27 inches. I draw 31.5" and I shoot a 70" Hill most of the time. I never understood why, but when I brace at the "normal height" it won't shoot for me at all.
I've never admitted it in public, but I keep mine braced between 7.5 and 7.75 inches. (I've never been brave enough to take it to 8") It's fast and quiet so I just run with it. I'm not suggesting anyone else crank up their Hill, mine is out of warranty and I accept all responsibility to anything that happens shooting it setup this way.
Not to shanghai your Sasquatch thread with Hill talk, but I learn a lot from what you post here Kirk. Thank you!
Thom
the optimal brace height for any stick bow is based on its design and geometry, the archer's draw length. there is typically a working brace height range to both observe and respect. the bowyer can provide that data.
so far, this 58" aggressive hybrid sasquatch works well for me at a 7-1/8" brace height. it could be increased. most 68" to 70" hill style longbows work best for me at 6-1/2" to 6-3/4" brace heights.
as always, ymmv.