Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Mojostick on March 15, 2012, 12:41:00 PM
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I appears I have at the least an inflamed rotator cuff and probably a semi-torn rotator cuff. From movement tests, they don't think it's a major tear, since I still had some strength in it, although the MRI will show for sure.
It sounds like rehab is anywhere from 2-5 months, depending on the severity. So no bow shooting at least for weeks at best, if only inflamed with cortisone shots, and maybe until August, if torn worse than suspected and full tear surgery is needed.
Anyone had a semi-tear? If so, what kind of rehab is done after surgery?
I'll only be shooting 40lbs next fall anyhow, so I assume I'll be fine by mid-October.
Thanks in advance.
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I had what they thought was a SLAP tear on my right should back in high school from playing baseball. Turned out that while I was getting surgery that nothing was torn but there was too much room in socket for the head of my bone. Anyways they tightened this up. Rehab was a lot of different things to get range of motion back and once that was back it was strength exercise for the shoulder muscles. Full recovery for surgery is generally 9 months. Do, if you got surgery now your looking at full recovery by mid December.
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Mojostick,
I had surgery a year ago last month to correct what they "thought" was a tear in my rotator cuff tendon. This was after a series of a couple cortisone shots put directly into the shoulder to try and remedy the issue.
Long story, made shorter..........they really don't know "exactly" what is done until they actually get inside the shoulder. It is a very complicated joint and the MRI's just doesn't show them the "true" problem always. The surgeon told me on the day of the surgery that they were gonna go into the shoulder with a scope, but if the problem was more severe than could be corrected in this manner that they would open the shoulder up.
When they got inside, they did in fact find a "partial tear" to the rotator cuff and a slap tear that was causing most of the problem. The slap tear is actually in the bone socket itself in the cartilage that surrounds the inside of the socket. They corrected the problems and off to "physical therapy" I went. Let me tell ya, the first few sessions of that was a lot like torture.
The first thing they work on is getting full range of motion back and that wasn't a pleasant thing......but I got through it and then just as Shane C said, they move onto strengthening the shoulder muscles. I was back to shooting a bow by mid-May of last year. I truly believe that it takes from 9 months to a full year to get your shoulder completely back to what you had before any shoulder issues started.
There are lots of stretches and strengthening exercises that you will need to CONTINUE to do to eleviate any future problems.......at least if you are on the upper side of the mid-40's in age. I've had two scopes on one of my knee's and in comparison to a shoulder surgery, I'd rather have about a dozen knee scopes than one shoulder repair. It just takes soooooooooooo much longer to get over totally, and that being dependant on you doing your part with the physical therapy.
I'm not trying to scare you of the surgery, with me it was a necessary thing to even live a "somewhat normal" life again. My shoulder still "aches" at times, expecially during the night and when it gets cold. I guess that is part of getting older. The biggest thing that I notice, as I'm getting older is that everytime that I get an injury it takes me longer to get totally back to normal again. I think that's just part of the "aging process".
Find yourself a good sports doctor to do the surgery and then do the physical therapy with a sports based therapist if at all possible. THEY are the ones that will get you back to your "normal".........the fastest. Notice I didn't say "easiest"........because there is nothing easy about recovering from shoulder injuries. They just plain SUCK.......but the alternative is worse.
Winterhawk1960
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I had an actual tear that happend the end of January a few years back. I was able to begin shooting little bows by April and was back shooting my normal 75-80# bows by july. You just need to take it slow. I refused the surgery and, "knock on wood", have never had even a slight problem since.
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Cortisone shots in my opinion are a mental band aid. It covers up the real problem for a bit, and allows you to screw it up even more.JMHO
Get a second opinion and maybe even a third, and dont tell them what the other doctors have said.Let them give you an opinion based on what they see.
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I had surgery on mine 12/2010. The problem is back and now I'm swapping to LH shooting. I also have a birth defect in my shoulder so that adds to my issues. Hopefully yours will be better.
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X2 with what Winterhawk1960 said. Been there-done that. Hope all goes well for you.
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Sorry to hear it...good luck.
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Last year I had two partial tears in the rotator cuff and one in the Labrum. I got the cortisone and it helped for about two days. Doc didnt want to do surgery because of my lifestyle. He said he wanted to see how it went. A year later I am pain free and no surgery required. I babied it for a while and lowered my weights to high rep sets. I was shocked he didn't want to do surgery but he was Truely looking out for my well being. Shocking. He said he didn't want to fix it because I wouldn't like the way it felt after it was done.
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About two or so years ago I got thrown off a horse and hurt my right shoulder. The Dr looking at the MRI said I had a minor tear and that had caused a small spur to grow. I REALLY didn't want to do the surgery so I opted for fairly regular cortisone shots for a year or so. During that time they gave me some chest exercises (basically variations on the decline press)to do to help take pressure off the joint.
Now it doesn't really hurt at all and a different Dr and different MRI doesn't show a spur. I'm of the opinion that much of the diagnosis had been speculative in nature. I just, as in yesterday, shot the bow again for the pretty much the first time since the fall. Aside from being a terrible shot I'm fine.
Get a second, or third, opinion before you get cut on.
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I'd be real carefull about any sort of surgery. Your shoulder will never be the same.
I work in the fitness industry and see lots of shoulder things.
Chances are if you do 'Pre-hab' work you will never need a surgery.
Just remember people get paid per surgery...
Its in their best interest to cut you open.
Get the medical info you need then go to a good sports massage therapist, accupucture clinic, physical therapist, correct exercise specialist, any one but a surgeon. Just make sure they value your input and don't seem to have an agenda. Ask lots of questions.
Ive seen so mush needless surgery!
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I have had both sides done-make sure you are dealing with a sports ortho and not a general surgeon. Seek out alternatives...Chiropractors know more about shoulders and sports issues than regular doctors do.
Rest, ice, compress, stretching all will help. Sports physio types are a great resource too. Often you can recover completely w/o surgery.
I just read Sharpend 60's post-pretty much what he said! LOL
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I had problems arise two summers ago. Mine ended up being inflammation of the rotator cuff. Has to be one of the more painful things I've been through. Took me about 16 months to get back to normal.
I feel for ya.
Ken
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Originally posted by Sharpend60:
I'd be real carefull about any sort of surgery. Your shoulder will never be the same.
Chances are if you do 'Pre-hab' work you will never need a surgery.
Just remember people get paid per surgery...
Its in their best interest to cut you open.
Get the medical info you need then go to a good sports massage therapist, accupucture clinic, physical therapist, correct exercise specialist, any one but a surgeon. Just make sure they value your input and don't seem to have an agenda. Ask lots of questions.
Ive seen so mush needless surgery!
YOU are absolutely correct about "never being the same".
I did all the "pre-hab" from about 2 years prior to the surgery. I did the sports massage therapist, accupuncture, physical therapist, and the corrective exercise. I guess I'm lucky to have a surgeon in our area that ONLY wants to cut when nothing else is working.
Those "slap-tears" on the labrum are very rarely, if ever "fixed" without getting in there and removing the floating piece of material or in my case it wasn't floating but still attached. Believe me........I'm not one to want to get "cut on", but when all else fails and you have been sleeping in a recliner for months on end, there has to be some other fix to get back to "normal".......whatever that really is :dunno:
Truth be known, it probably started when I was much younger, pitching little league baseball up through the high school years. With that said, it isn't what it was when I was younger.....BUT......it is much better than it was pre-surgery.
I'm not a "pill-popper"......and didn't even fill the scripts for the dang stuff that the Dr. wrote after the surgery. I just took ibuprofin and got through the physical therapy afterwards just fine. No pain.........no gain sort of thing I reckon.
Winterhawk1960
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I had surgery last June for a partially torn rotator cuff. They also removed two bone spurs and cleaned up the bicep tendon channel.
I followed the rehab without exception which included stretching, range of motion and then strengthening exercises. The surgeon told me that full range of motion wouldn't be obtained for at least 9 months and full strength for 12 months.
I was not able to bowhunt last fall but plan on shooting and hunting again this fall. Whatever you decide to do, follow all of the rehab plans.
Good luck.
Tony
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I had an MRI about 18 months ago that showed I have a tear in my shoulder also. I was swimming a lot at that time which caused some aches and caused me to have it done. Since I've backed off on the high swimming yardages and shooting lower poundage bows it's felt better though not "normal". I like to shoot each day so I shoot my lower poundage bows about half the time and a little heavier ones the other half. I've also varied my swim strokes to help strengthen some of the supportive muscles around the shoulder joint. I've resisted having any shots as I feel they just mask what's really going on in there also. By doing the above I been good so far, I'm hoping it continues. I work in the medical field and hear great success stories with surgery and bad experiences every day. As mentioned above, if you do end up going the surgery route be sure it's with someone that has your best interest in mind.
-Jay
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what are everybodys symptoms?? constant pain? occasional pain? pain upon lifting something, shooting bow?? hurting at night? trouble liftin arm above shoulder? just wondering.. mine has ached a few times when i try to lift my arm above my shoulder AFTER i have lifted something fairly heavy.. dont do that much any more. im easy on mine now bc i've heard horror stories about shoulders.. just dont want it to get worse
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As far as symptoms, if you tear your rotator cuff, you will be lucky to even be able to hold your arm straight out to the side and raise it above your head, let alone lift it with any weight! I'm talking real pain! I've done it twice and it takes at least a year to start approaching normal.
The first time I did it the doctor said "you have two choices - You can have surgery, it will be painful and will take about a year to rehab. Or, you can not have surgery, it will be painful and will take a year to rehab." I elected not to have the surgery and it took a full year. The second time, I was much older and it took a year to be able to comfortably put my bow again, but don't think I will ever be totaly the same. Don't think us old folks heal as good as we usta could... A word of caution to graybarkhunter: If you don't rehab that shoulder, you could permanently loose some range of motion.
WoodsyDave
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Find an ortho surgeon you like and who is we recommended, and have the surgery. I had the open surgery, but some surgeons have gotten really good at arthroscopic. You can even watch videos on youtube to learn about it. Life's too short to live through unnecessary pain. I had a tear repaired in April and arrowed a deer in October. Find a good PT too, and stick with it. It can be a tough surgery if they open you up, but still well worth it in my opinion.
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Not really sure but I think my shoulder problems started when I was younger from hanging drywall and mainly from delivering drywall. Anyway, my right shoulder bothered me for years. I did the therapy and got the shots but it didn't go away. I finally had the surgery and it did take a full year until I got back to normal. I couldn't sleep at night because it ached so bad. That is what finally pushed me to get the surgery. The MRI's are not always accurate. Mine showed a detached tendon but when the surgeon went in he found that it was torn but not detached and found another tendon that was torn but you could not see that on the MRI. If you have a tear I don't see how doing therapy can fix it. It didn't for me and I did two rounds of therapy over a few years. Good luck with yours.
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MRI showed a small tear and some minor bone spurs in my shoulder. It has healed enough over the last several months (w/out surgery) that I can lift my arm in any direction with no pain, and I can shoot my bow without pain. However, when I sit down and lean slightly forward it begins to ache terribly and there is nerve radiation all the way down to my thumb and index finger. Has anyone experienced these symptoms?
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I had a 2 SLAP done (had to go back and redo it after hardware broke)and its been 11 months and Im starting to get strength back and able to shoot but some days its tough..got at least another year before full strength returns so i hope it isnt to bad for you and a speedy recovery
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My symptoms were a constant fairly dull pain that was either right around the shoulder blade or ran down the top of my shoulder into my arm.
The most devastating part occurred everynight. When I would lay down, it was almost as if I would have spasms in my rotator cuff. This pain was on the verge of being unbearable at times.
I would also have a non-specific "phantom" like pain that would happen frequently anywhere from my elbow up to my shoulder.
Also, I had very little range of motion in my shoulder. Couldn't raise it above my head without excruciating pain.
Eventually, due to my favoring that arm, I lost what I would estimate to be 50% to 75% of the use of my arm.
Ken
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I have a semi tear. I never did get surgery and now my job with that kind of recover wont allow it unless I fully tear it.
There's 4 'cuffs' there depending on what one you tear will dictate what you can/cant do. If I shoot for a long period of time I can feel it but it doesnt hurt. A little bit of weight lifting excercises I have to be careful on. My job can get interesting. Turning valves in a power plant depending on what one it is, I can really feel it, its always the hard to reach, gotta get in a goofy position to turn one that gets ya lol.
Your body will tell you what you can/cant do.
I've been warned about scar tissue. Ie if I decide to get cut later....it will be much worse than if I did it back than. It's been 2 years now since I got my partial tear.
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bjorn,
never thoguht to consult my chiropractor (another bike injury that has haunted me since my early teens)....I'll have to do that, thanks for that advice!
I think it was about 2 months before I could really move my arm much....I couldnt hold a water bottle out to my side after 2 months, by the 4th month I finally went in. My doc gave me the option. He also said to give it a year.
I can right now, push on one spot, about where a gun but would be, and feel it. Still trying to keep from getting cut!
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In 08 I had a catwalk callapse at work and I had a bad fall. Really screwed up my shoulder and hip/leg and had several surgerys but only one two the shoulder.
When they got in there I had a 98% tear of my bicep and several other tears in the 80%, Torn rotator, Slap tear, heck I cant even remember all of it there was so much.
I saw the best sports doctor I could get and shoulders were his speacialty. The surgery sucked the rehab sucked it was one painful event but very much worth it because I love bowhunting. They used 7 different anchors/pins to pull all the muscles back up and attach them to the shoulder but I did everything they told me to do including all the rehab then continued it at home. It's hard to not grab the bow and give her a pull but as much as I went through there was no way I was going to screw it up.
Surgery was in June and I was bowhunting by November 1st, I worked my way up from kids bows to hunting wieght. The shoulder continued to hurt for almost two years then one day while I was training for a Triathlon I noticed the pain was gone and has never come back since. I have no pain at all and full use of that shoulder and it feels nice and tight like when I was young.
I know this is just one story but they can be fixed and I wish you luck. By the way I have three good Tradgang friends that are fighting bad shoulders and dropping down on wieght and has helped them.
Tracy
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I had an MRI on my right shoulder last week. Going back to see the doc about it on the 30 th. both of my shoulders give me a lil trouble from time to time due to old injuries. Mainly when I shoot a lot. I'm hoping surgery isn't indicated but we'll see.
One thing I found that has really helped me is doing stretches and rotator cuff exercises. It has really made a big difference. Google shoulder pain and injuries for archers and find the article by Dr Lefler. If you have an injury it might not be relevant but for anyone looking to strengthen your shoulders I think it's good preventative advice. The PT that evaluated me said to keep up the stretching and exercises till we get it all figured out. Shooting a lighter bow a few times after stretching before shooting the heavier sticks has helped me. Take care of those shoulders! I told my doc that not shooting was not an option. He asked if I have considered a compound. Told him that wasn't an option either at this point. I might have to ease back on weight though. My main concern is not to make things worse by degrading these old shoulders! Good luck to all!
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Mine turned out better than expected. MRI in December 2008 indicated I had a "less than 50% tear". The doctor advised band exercises (very light) to avoid surgery (I was 55 then). I did three types of stretch band exerices, 3 times per day and one 2-3# weigh exercise all demonstrated by the ortho doc.
I didn't think this was going to work. It just didn't seem aggressive enough to matter? The shoulder (drawing arm)hurt all the time and even more after doing the exercises. Then, like magic one morning late in July (nearly 7 months after I started exercising). The pain was 100% gone! It has never returned. I was allowed to shoot 2 arrows from a youth bow once about every 3-4 weeks during this time (I needed to do that as part of my job training teachers - shoot 2 and drop one).
Never did figure out exactly how I hurt the shoulder. I was trying to switch from compounds to a recurve the winter of 2009. I was shooting a 53# recurve which is about 5# heavier than I itended to shoot. I was also doing a home wainscoting project and carrying a lot of very long lumber on that shoulder up and down a hill from my driveway into the walk-out. I think the lumber carrying did the damage because that's when I noticed it hurting.
The episode delayed my return to the hunting fields with recurves until the 2010 season.
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I haven't gotten any results yet, but I haven't shot a bow in 5-6 days and the pain is almost gone.
Maybe I'll get lucky and it's just a bad inflamation and taking it easy/physical therapy/shot might be the ticket. I can only hope.
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Best of luck and a speedy recovery :pray:
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I had a MRI about two months ago. I have a slight tear in my rotator cuff, arthritis and impingment (I think that's what it's called). I pretty much refuse to have surgery without ruling out every other option. I've actually had a doctor tell me to make surgery my last option because surgery is an injury in itself. Youtube has alot of shoulder excercise video's and I've been going to the chiropractor and he said to do excercises to strengthen the stabilizing muscle's in your shoulder's with weight no more than 2 to 5 pounds. Light weight resistance bands work great! Hope everything goes well for all of us broke down dudes that love to shoot traditional bows. :thumbsup:
Jason