Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: lovethehunt on June 20, 2012, 11:45:00 AM
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A couple of fellow tradgangers and I are headed on another backpack hunt this year. Our last was a secluded Island in Alaska for Sitka Blacktails, this time it is for Elk in Colorado. We have picked a location and have a 6 mile hike in and plan on ten days from a base camp and spike out form there. So here is the question, would you rather carry a full tent ( fly, tent body, poles, ground tarp), just the ground cover and fly/pole combo or bivy and a tarp. I think the tarp/bivy is most likly the same weight as the my fly/pole combo. I don't know if bugs are factor at 10,000 + feet of elevation in mid September. I will be taking a 0 degree bag this time, I was near hypothermia on the AK trip and used too many calories trying to shiver my way warm at night.
I appreciate any help, thanks.
Todd
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Hardcore man. Why don't you weigh each combo and then make your decision. A tent is mighty comfortable in inclement weather.
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I have spent many a night in a USGI Bivy bag. The coldest has been 14 degrees. I usually don't use a tarp unless bad weather is coming. The tent can be worth its extra weight though if you end up waiting out some weather.
Toby
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Hennessy hammock all the way. That's my opinion. I won't sleep on the ground ever again.
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Man I have spent some miserable nights in Sept in a bivy and a tarp...the last 3 hunts "up top" I carried a Eureka 2 man tent that weighs about 7 pounds. Total weight of my pack was 50 pounds and I did a 5 day hunt. I can honestly say I'd rather lose 7 pounds of fat off my own arse than stay another night in just a bivy. Just my 2 cents...also my hike was only 2 miles which may make a difference.
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I have a small bivy tent...weighs about 1.2 pounds with stakes and rain fly. It's not a useful tent...pretty tight quarters....unless you are backpacking in a long distance and use it for spike camps. Then it shines. No room for anything but you, your pad and bag. You can find many similar one person tents. A tarp is a pretty handy and useful addition for additional cover.
Your choice of pad and bag is more important in my opinion and there are tons of choices out there.....but take Richard's advice and weigh everything. Not many flat areas in the mountains of Colorado, so around mile 4 is when you start feeling those extra pounds and ounces. (At 59, my legs hurt just thinking about it!)
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Might consider a Kifaru tepee tent. Very light and strong. Can leave the center aluminum pole at home and just cut a center pole at camp. When my buddy and I hunt, we take the stove along as well. One carries the 6-man tent, the other the stove. Each weighs about 4#. Very comfortable regardless of the weather. With the stove, can even dry clothes inside.
Bugs aren't much of a problem in the high country in Colorado in September.
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Just bought a 2 person (really just a roomy 1 person) that weighs under 3 pounds with everything including the bag, stakes, and ground cloth. Big Agnes Fly Creek UL2. I've set it up and played with it, like it a lot. Seems tough to beat the weight by too much more with other options, and the comfort seems worth it to me. I like a tent in bug season and for a little more warmth in the cold.
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I haven't used a bivy and tarp, but can comment on tents. Look for a free-standing tent in the five lbs. or less range.
I use a Kelty Gunnison 2 for self contained bicycle touring and also for backpacking into elk country in Colorado. It's a very comfortable tent, and is very well made. There are a number of good tents available in that weight. I don't think you'd be sorry going the tent route.
Bernie Bjorklund
NC Iowa/SW Wisconsin
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Without knowing the type and weight of tent,I'm not sure how to answer your question.
A good tent that blocks the wind can add 10 degrees or so to your sleeping bag's effective rating.This probably won't be an issue with your 0 degree bag if the rating is true.It would have allowed you to use a lighter bag though but I know what you are saying about living through a trip like that.I suspect bugs probably won't be an issue at that elevation and time so the only other issue would be inclement weather.
I use this MSR Zoid I which I don't think is still made but there should be plenty others to choose from.I can use it with the whole works for less than 4 lbs.My bow and pack will fit in the tent with me but no room to spare.The bow and pack will also fit under the vestibule for more room inside the tent.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/jbrandenburg/Scan0001-44.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/jbrandenburg/Scan0002-32.jpg)
For real light traveling,I can leave the tent body back and use the "Fast and Light Pitch" which is 2lbs 1 oz.That's light.
A complete tent can be a real comfort in inclement weather,high winds or lots of bugs but you may not encounter any of that.
You just have to literally WEIGH your options.The truth is,using new equipment the first time you do a particular trip is a crap shoot.You found that out on your AK trip.You may want to err on the side of caution which may mean you have to endure a few extra pounds,till you have been there and done that.Hopefully you will get to do it again and can fine tune your choices.
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I have both, but only used the bivy once because it blows. You'll wake up with a wet sleeping bag from condensation. The weight you save will quickly be negated by your wet sleeping bag. Go with the tent.
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1st, bugs aren't generally a big issue at 8500+, in september, in my experience.
i carry an rei bivy in my hunting pack, as survival gear. i spent a sleety, snowy, unexpected night in it a few years ago.
i believe it saved my life.
for planned camping, give me a tent, though.
joe
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I spent 10 days last Sept. in Colorado and I would have packed it up by the third day had it not been for tents. I had a Hubba tent (freestanding, very well built, and you could pitch only the fly if you wanted) packed for spike camp, and I was soooooooo glad. We never did spike in, we were within striking range of the elk from base camp. We stayed at the base camp with a canvas tent and heat. It rained, snowed, or sleeted on us 9 out of 10 days ..... sometimes as many as five times in a day. I am not from the west, so maybe I'm not the best one to ask, BUT I COULD NOT HAVE FATHOMED THE THOUGHT OF SPENDING TIME IN A BIVY in the weather we experienced. Hunting hard for 10 days at 10,000+' is a chore by itself. You simply cannot afford to add extreme discomfort to the mix. At least this is my take on it.
Bugs were not an issue.
Oh, and get a footprint if it's offered
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If you will be 6 miles from "real" shelter for 10 days, I would be looking for a light tent. You can grab the fly and use it as a temp shelter for a 1 or 2 night bivy camp from your base.
When you are packed in and don't have clothes to spare, a full tent is pretty nice. Weight is a huge issue for a 10 day backpack hunt where you are burning calories hard everyday so a lighter option is pretty tempting, but its all a trade-off.
If you mean you will be camped at the vehicle for 10 days and spiking out for a few days from there, I would chance a lighter set-up and have a nice big comfy tent at the truck.
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1st, bugs aren't generally a big issue at 8500+, in september, in my experience.
i carry an rei bivy in my hunting pack, as survival gear. i spent a sleety, snowy, unexpected night in it a few years ago.
i believe it saved my life.
for planned camping, give me a tent, though.
joe
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I much prefer the tent myself...
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Can't imagine doing 10 days in a bivy. If the weather was perfect it might be ok, but the weather is never perfect when I'm out. Kifaru Sawtooth for me. For shorter/lighter trips I like a Tarptent contrail. I expect from now forward to always have my bag in a ultralight bivy sack for protection from condensation, but hope never to have to spend the night in just the bag!
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It's all about the weather......you have to pay attention to what's going on with mother nature. As far as bugs, last year camping at 9,500 feet the biting flies were a real pain in the A__! And I had a 4 man tent! I have a 1 man Bivy tent that is tight quarters but priceless in a storm! Good luck on your hunt!
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My Colorado experience is similar to Biathlonman.
I've used a Kifaru Supertarp with no complaints and no bivy sack. As I get older I would prefer his Sawtooth just for the added height but the Supertarp is very light and simple to pitch in many configurations.
I've also used a Tarptent Scarp 1. Nice solid floored shelter. Compact but not a place I would like to spend a lot of time other than just sleeping. It can be pitched with just the fly.
I spent a week backpacking in Utah in a Golite Utopia 2 and it was a nice floorless shelter also.
For me a bivy sack is a survival accessory. If you haven't used one I would suggest spending the night in it in your backyard the next time it storms. I did it and decided the bivy was not for me.
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BTW, a ground cloth is usually not necessary with modern tents...
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Look into a Appytrails tent.2 fellas and all your gear inside ,aound 2-1/2#,mine was 117.00 exellent tent.
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TENT
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Tents are comfortable, but you can do well for yourself with a good silnylon tarp. I lived under mine for weeks in windy Patagonia and I use it regularly here in coastal AK as well. My 8'x10' tarp weighs 11 oz. and it is as tough as any lightweight tent (maybe even tougher since I secure it with p. cord instead of lightweight aluminum poles). Not sure what my OR bivy weighs, but it has to be less than 1 lb. Add a down bag (for CO weather) and a 3/4 length thermarest and your whole setup will weigh less than most backpacking tents. Even more importantly, you will be able to pack all your gear for a three day hunt into a daypack-sized bag, allowing you to move light and quick
If you couldn't tell already, I enjoy the ultra light tarp camping. I find it useful for hunting in August in AK because the nights or so short, you pretty much have to bivouac in the alpine hunting grounds to hunt the most productive times of day.
Before I moved up here I lived and hunted the Rockies and I'll bivy with my tarp down there if I ever move back. You will be above the elk in your hunting grounds at first light while the tent campers and car campers will be hours down the hill.
Besides, using a simple shelter like a tarp is satisfying in the same way that using a simple bow is satisfying. Using a tarp takes woodsmanship and a little ingenuity, but with practice, you can be quite comfortable, even in horrible weather.
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Also, while I haven't tried every bivy sack out there, out of the ones I have slept in, only the Bibler and the OR are worth a darn.
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Check out the Golite Shangri-la 5. It can be used with the "nest" as a full tent. Or you can just pitch the fly for lighter weight if there are no bugs. Very versatile and light weight. I believe they are still on sale. I love mine. The 5 has plenty of room. I'd get it over the 3 for the added space or for two people.
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Originally posted by Tracks:
Also, while I haven't tried every bivy sack out there, out of the ones I have slept in, only the Bibler and the OR are worth a darn.
I have the OR bivy. It's well made, but your own body heat will get you wet in it. I would not use it for regular camp, but it would probably be helpful in an emergency.
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Great input guys, thank you. I have a Marmot earlylight2 that weighs in at about 5 pounds as the full rig. I can pitch it as a fly only and will start laying everything out to pick the best option. For now I will keep running and hiking with my pack on filled witn a 40# bag of salt.
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There are numerous light weight tents on the market right now in the sub 3# range,,Nemo Meta that uses trekking poles,BA Fly creek,Shires tarp tents,six moon designs all with floors most are single wall with the exception of the fly creek,not to mention all the floorless models,in all different price ranges.Bear Paw wilderness also makes great tents that are reasonable in price,bearpawwd.com..Look at them all then go to utube and see if there's any reviews,but be careful weight's not the only issue,10 days is a long time in a tiny 1 man tent,a lot of cases the 2 man is a minimal difference in weight..
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When I used to camp, I preferred a tent over a bivy/tarp.
I could bring my equipment into the tent out of the weather.
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Only a masochist would prefer a bivy sack over a tent. I agree with others that the tent is the much better way to go. I've been using a one man MSR tent with a large vestibule lately. Even when camping out with two people, sometimes it's easier to find two small flat spots than one big flat spot for a 2/3 man tent. The vestibule allows for a dry place to store gear and cook in bad weather. The MSR Hubba offers great ventilation, protection, and comfort. I can only describe my few nights in a bivy as downright miserable experiences. Condensation was a problem for me when I used a bivy on an early season Colorado, timberline elk hunt. Most likely, I'll never spend another night in a bivy sack!
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Originally posted by gringol:
BTW, a ground cloth is usually not necessary with modern tents...
That's true, but....
Depending on the ground you're pitching your tent on, it will maintain its integrity a lot longer with something under it. Especially with the ultralight tents, those rocks and sticks take their toll. Then again, if you're going ultralight it may not be worth it.
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Originally posted by canopyboy:
Originally posted by gringol:
BTW, a ground cloth is usually not necessary with modern tents...
That's true, but....
Depending on the ground you're pitching your tent on, it will maintain its integrity a lot longer with something under it. Especially with the ultralight tents, those rocks and sticks take their toll. Then again, if you're going ultralight it may not be worth it. [/b]
Absolutely, buy the footprint or place some sort of protection on the ground.
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Originally posted by awbowman:
Originally posted by canopyboy:
Originally posted by gringol:
BTW, a ground cloth is usually not necessary with modern tents...
That's true, but....
Depending on the ground you're pitching your tent on, it will maintain its integrity a lot longer with something under it. Especially with the ultralight tents, those rocks and sticks take their toll. Then again, if you're going ultralight it may not be worth it. [/b]
Absolutely, buy the footprint or place some sort of protection on the ground. [/b]
Been backpacking for 20 years and have never used a ground cloth. I spend some time moving rocks and sticks and have never had a problem. Nothing wrong with a ground cloth except you have to carry it. Of course, I often only pack the clothes I'm wearing plus a rain coat and a pair of socks, so I may be a bit of an anomaly...
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I also like the footprint because I can use it when I only pitch the fly.
Don't need it, but I like it
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For me I'm a tent guy anymore. I have tried all three but with the new light weight tents a extra pound is worth it to me. I like a two man tent for the extra space for gear and stretching out. Last year I use my bivy once. I unzipped myself in the middle of the night and was awaken by a nasty snow and sleat storm. It made for one cold wet night.
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My son just walked in and asked what are they talking about. I said hunting elk at 10,000+ feet
and what should they bring for shelter. His response was an oxygen tent.
Seriously, I just got a tepee style tent from Seek Outside with a wood stove. Very light and with a stove you can dry cloths and be comfortable.Might be a good choice over a variety of hunts you seem to be going on.
Abe
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The tent might be a better choice if the weather gets bad. In bad weather inadequate shelter could become a serious safety issue, particularly in mountainous terrain.
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a tent is just a snug, secure home.
no snakes, no rodents, no scorpions, no rain, snow, sleet, hail, mosquitoes, flies...
i have never camped under a tarp.
but i do like me a tent.
joe
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i lived in a north face tuolumne for a year, once. a little 2-man tent. when that wore out, the lady and i moved into another north face mini-house.
i think it was called a grasshopper, but i'm not sure.
long, long, bicycle tour. 2 years. 2 women, too, but that's beside the point.
ah, youth!
joe
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For ten days @ 10,000 ft, I take a tent......no question.
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I haven't got big into backpacking yet but for a ground cloth tyvek is a good substitute for the heavy store bought ones.
Brandon
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You boys would be smart to pool your money together and get an 8 or 12 man Kifaru setup.
Ultralight luxury :readit:
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I prefer just the ultralight silnylon tarp. I have spent a lot of time under one in some pretty bad weather. My shelter weighs less than a pound.
2008 Idaho Elk, 9000 feet.
(http://sticknstring.webs.com/photos/Elk-Hunt-2008/tarp4.jpg)
2011 CO Elk, 10,000 feet.
(http://jdspics.webs.com/photos/2011-Elk-Hunt-Pics/2011Ellk-07.jpg)
Here's my old setup, REI Sololite. Weighed 5 pounds. The tarp is easier to carry. That's my hunting partner's tarp in the background. This trip converted me as he stayed just as dry ad comfy as I did.
(http://sticknstring.webs.com/photos/2006-Elk-Hunt/06elkhunt07.jpg)