Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Fish Finder on July 25, 2012, 04:08:00 PM
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My girlfriend shoots 37# at her draw. I curious what would penetrate better the 150g WW originals or 150g WW Elites? I was thinking the elites only because they are smaller dimensions.
What would you guys think? I like the idea of a killer sharp 3 blade to ensure a better blood trail and shots only 10 yards and under.
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Use a 2 blade head. 37 pounds is not really for 3 bladers.
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Need maximum damage inside cant afford a far track job with these urban hunts.
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What kind of critters are you hunting? anything bigger than rabbits, I would go with a good two blade too.
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x2 on the 2-blades. @ 37 lbs, penetration will be much more adequate in exiting the other side, creating a better blood trail.
With high poundage bows, where penetration isn't an issue, 3 blades will produce a better blood trail. But a 2 blade broadhead that pokes through the other side will lay much more blood and be much more lethal that a 3 blade that doesn't get through.
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Ofcourse, I've experienced and have seen some knarly pictures of 2-blade blood trails!!!
Gotta love my Magnus 1's!!!
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Fish - Sorry, just catching your second post.
A good penetrating 2-blade with 37 lbs will put a deer down much quicker than a marginal 3 blade hit. No doubt.
Check out STOS. They have a great width to length ratio that are well suited for lower poundage.
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x3 on the two blade :thumbsup: Real good advice.
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I would only agree with the 2 blade crowd if she is hunting from an elevated stand. Otherwise, pick your poison and get it razor sharp.
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Shooting a deer isn't the same as shooting a jug of water. I have some doubts how much more blood is splilled using 3 and 4 blade heads.
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a two blade is just as deadly as a 3 blade as long as its properly placed and sharp. exspecially with thst poudage youll need all the penitration you can get
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My wife has shot a number of deer with the same poundage at 26" draw. Using Zwickey Eskimos and Grizzly heads, she has had one time that the arrow stopped inside the deer. The deer jumped the string and she caught it in the back right ham, the arrow stopped in the front left shoulder blade. That was the her longest tracking job 110 yards, all of the others were much shorter than that. I am not so certain that she would have had an effective kill on the ham shot deer with a three blade. Number one thing is to make certain of the arrow, it needs to fly perfect and be sharp.
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A sharp 2 blade is the answer at that #.
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Agree with the 2 blade crowd
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Magnus stingers mounted to a smaller diameter carbon shaft like an easton axis or similar. I think as much gain in penetration can be had from smaller diameter carbon shafts as going from 3 blade to 2 blade head. Just my 2 cents worth. I busted a limb on my main hunting bow and finsihed the season a while back with a 43 lb red wing hunter that was my great grandfathers that he had willed to me. Easton Axis 500 29 inches with jeweller buffer wheel sharpened 125 grain magnus II's. They were very, very sharp. 1 10 yard pass through rib section of 80 lb doe. 1 18 yard arrow fell out off side 30 yards from shot through ribs on about a 70 lb doe. 1 6 yard shot on doe high entry low exit both lungs. Arrow stuck in ground and deer never moved until she collasped. Late season yearling, prob 50 lbs field dressed. I though I had missed her and was reaching to get another arrow when she fell over.
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Thanks for the info ya'll!
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I shoot a 38# abbott longbow with an 1816 shaft and a 3 blade snuffer weighing 125grs. and have been quite successful with them. A good sharp!!!, 3 blade BH. will work for you.
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A heavy arrow with that set up using a shaving sharp broad head in the right place either head will do. I prefer a 2 blade myself but you can use either.
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ALSO a 2 Blade guy!!!I think a skinny shaft and a sharp 2 blade will be a plenty!!!
I messed up a few years ago and had to rehab the shoulder...I used 42# whip (I call it a turkey bow...) with eclipse 2 blade (lots of efoc) and had plenty of penetration on whitetails...
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I think I understand that you are looking for blood on the ground to quicken your urban deer recovery. A deer shot in the heart/lungs is going to be just as dead just as quickly with a two or a three blade head. I am not the game killer that a lot of people on this board are, but from my experience three blade broadheads DO absolutely spill more blood than two blades do...BUT they have to pass through to do it. For that reason I lean towards the 2 blade camp for the poundage you are talking about. Personally, I have been impressed with the Magnus stingers and I think that they would make a great broadhead for your wife to shoot.
Good luck and be sure to post pics! :archer2:
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Use 4 blade Stingers or 4 blade Phatheads. Both are essentially 2 blades with bleeders. I shoot low weight too and the last couple deer I shot didn't go more than 50 yards and I got complete passthru's.
Shooting low weight due to rotator cuff problems, I tried 3 blade Razorcaps once. Once and never again for my 35-42lb shooting.
I hit a doe in the heart at about 15 yards and the arrow only went in about 6"-8". Sure, I got the deer and she didn't go far, but my Stingers and Phatheads would have zipped thru on that same shot.
In my opinion, I'd suggest the counter-intuitive and go heavier with the light weight bows, instead of looking for a 400gr-ish arrow to gain some zip. I'm shooting about 550gr's out of 40lbs and getting super results.
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Don`t know what kind of bow your wife shoots but if it is a fairly efficient one at her lbs it will probably sling an arrow a little better than some of the straight bows I`ve shot.I gotta wonder how many folks have shot a deer with the poundage mentioned?
Some things to consider and one that would be first for me is how high will she be in a stand if in a stand. If a close downward shot is gonna be the rule I would shoot a narrow 2 blade. If not I would shoot a woodsman in a minute if thats what you want to shoot. Personally I would shoot a BIG two blade like a Simmons Tigershark.
I would and will hunt with that poundage if thats all I can draw as I "mature" and will be happy and confident. Good Luck.RC
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I don't mean to HiJack this thread, however, I just picked up a dozen Wensel Woodsmans, I'm shooting 45lb Static Tip curve, with perfectly tuned arrow and razor sharp, am I o.k. with these?
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Yes.RC
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I have some experiance with 42lbs . I used abowyer brown bears with awsome results. 6 deer and 4 hogs with the same head. max recovery was 32 steps. two blades have less tramua on the animal than 3 blades. That said, I get more blood on the ground with 3 blades or wide (2") 2 blades. but out of 50lb bow.
Tracey Dunn shoots in the high 30lbs I think and she has had great results with the brown bear. check out the zipper website.
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RC
Black Widow PSA 37# draw 15 feet high in tree stand max distance 10 yards.
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For what it's worth, Owen Jeffery killed a lot of deer and pigs shooting a 38# recurve and a 160g snuffer.....at his age(I think 80 then) that was all he could pull.
Sharp steel + straight flying arrow + lungs = meat!
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2 blade. 3 has no more killing capability than 2 blades. Sharp and hit the spot. Urban, mountain, etc. 3 does not cure a bad shot in any way.
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I'd say whatever head you settle on, get a front loaded Easton Axis shaft to put in on (they make a 600 size for light bows). Skinny shafts and high FOC will help as much as a an narrow 2 or 3 blade head. Get it flying perfectly straight whatever it is.
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Ever considered 4 blade stingers? Bleeders are only 3/4" wide total.
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Originally posted by Overspined:
3 does not cure a bad shot in any way.
her shot placement is not in question here I don't know why people keep bringing that up. Its about the efficiency between the heads.
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I agree use a 2 blade and preferably a single bevel like the grizzly. It will penetrate further than any 3 blade and causes a larger entrance and exit hole than a standard 2 blade.
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When I started out I had no clue what I was doing. I was drawing a 45@28" to about 26". I was shooting a shaft that was over spined by about 25# and had questionably sharp woodsman on the end. Looking back at it my shooting wasen't that great either. At the time I thought I had things figured out.
My first week out I took 2 deer with that setup. I got them in close and the woodsmans did their job. No pass throughs(hit bone on other side) but good blood on both. She should be fine with either in my opinion. I do like the tips and solid blades on the elites better though.
Rob
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I have read many threads on this same topic. My casual observation is there are strong opinions on this and people are successful with all kinds of broadheads.
Do your research, draw your conclusion, and shoot what you have the most confidence in doing the job.
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why not slowly build her up in weight so penetration isnt that big of a question even at 50# you can get a sharp 3 blade to totally pass through it just requires some work to build up in weight quickly
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go 2 blade for less poundage bows, its lesser in width all around, unlike a 3 blade. an it dont take as much energy as a 3 blade does.
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My Wife also shoots 37# but 37#@29" her (power stroke) can make a big difference also.
Full length shaft in this pic, She's set-up with 125gr Muzzy Phanton 4 blades for this deer season.
(http://www.angeloholsteins.com/images/Pictures/Hunting/Branson-Archery-2010-008_web.jpg)
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Don't
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^ i seriously agree with walt it just seems unethical too hunt with such a light bow/ its not even a legal weight in some states ill be amazed if this even works as bowhunters people already give us a bad name hunting with a bairly legal bows doesnt make anything seem better just because its possible to kill at that weight doesnt mean it should be done
"First let me be understood. There seems to be no question that a 50 pound bow will kill deer and even larger game quite successfully. However, we also know that a 22 rifle will kill big game hut is barred by law in most states because it is not considered adequate- not enough margin of safety. Why then should we be satisfied with minimum killing power when we can quite easily have better?"-Tom Imler, Jr.
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I think sending a 37# bow to RC for a year would change some minds as far as what they are capable of.
If my wife could only draw 37# I would'nt think twice about it for whitetails. My post earlier was with a an old Darton ranger. I couldn't imagine what a 37# Zipper would do. I think everyone should strive to shoot a higher weight if capable but if I could only draw that weight tomorrow I'm going to hunt and kill.
Rob
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I have a #40 longbow that I'm seriously considering hunting with due to how hard it rocks the target after sending a 450 plus grain arrow downrange.
As long as the 2 blade broadhead is sharp, the distance is short, and the shot is well placed then #37 is more than enough as long as the arrow it a good weight ratio to the power of the bow.
Just know the limitations.
But I'll say this too, there are limits to how low to go, but how low is a gray area. I think you're well in the gray. So is my #40 bow, even though it's legal in NC.
Please post a pic of her success if it plays out.
Good luck.
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This thread is starting to remind me of when I owned the sport shop and all the guys that came in saying that a .243, .250 or 20ga slug was too light for deer. Then they told stories of how they flinched all over from the recoil of their .300's. ;) :D
There's no reason to "build up", unless you are seeking really big/dangerous game and maybe a big co-pay doctors bill for rotator cuff problems that often develop from being over-bowed.
From our conversations, Dan Toelke told me that he had made himself like a 37lb bow for his elk hunting, when he had some shoulder issues and that he wouldn't think twice about that weight, and that's for elk. He also said he has Canadian customers that specifically order 40lbs-for moose and kill every last one they shoot!
From my experience, I'd argue that one will get passthru's on deer not just with 40, 37 or 35lbs, but all the way down to 30lbs.
With my rotator cuff problems and 40lb bows, I have to look for my arrow after it skips away after the complete pass-thru on deer as it is now. Why should I bother hurting my shoulder more, shooting less accurately and having to look farther for my passthru arrow, just to have bragging rights about how much weight I can bench?
I'll take some pics this season and show what 30-something bows can do. I'm probably going to start the season out with either a 39lb 1958 Kodiak Special, a 38lb 1960 Kodiak Special, a 38lb 1961 Polar, a 38lb 1962 Grizzly, a 40lb 1959 Kodiak or a 40lb 1959 Grizzly. I fully intend to get complete pass-thru/50 yard kills with any and all of them.
I'd argue that shooting too heavy of a bow and not a light bow is which is the unethical of two.
Go to a shoot and watch all the guys struggling with weight, short drawing, not opening up the limbs, not using back muscles and shaking as try to draw to an anchor. I'd suggest that 70% of the guys out there would be much better served knocking 10lbs off their draw weight, instead of trying to add 5lbs.
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I agree 100% with Mojostick.Well said...
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Absolutely correct Mojostick! Let her struggle with and short draw a heavy bow, then send an arrow wildly down range off it's mark!
Or have her pull 37#@ a full (29") and shoot it confidenly, pretty easy choice isn't it! after all we're only hunting deer, how dead is dead.
I'm thinking 37#@29" is about like 44#@27" or better?
I'll be shooting in the 50#s this year, but have killed 5 deer with bows under 45# in the past, not a big deal.
Again, dead is dead, let's hurry up and get fall here! I think we're all getting board and cranky from these 100 degree days!
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i'd like to point out that not all guys that shoot heavy are super overbowed and totally out of control with their bows infact heres video of my shooting my 72# this is a group shot done at 15 yards http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEJH7wEw1Sc
and here's me shooting you'll notice that theres very little shaking going on here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqo4PbPs0ac&feature=plcp
heres me pulling my 90# bow i havnt shot it yet because 1, i dont have arrows for it yet ,2 im giving all my focus on my 72# bow for the upcoming season
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=INr8wUDjSjY
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Mojo, I could not agree more. I to have problems with my left hand which will not allow me to be heavy bowed. My 38# longbow gets the job done on deer sized game and I'm not gonna fret over it. I say those that feel the need to shoot their heavy bows go for it, one day you'll be older or get injured and I'm sure your mind will change.
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I've been shooting bows between 50 and 115# for over 50 years now. Have never had any shoulder problems. Guess that kind of shows if you build up in draw weight gradually and don't start out 20 pounds over bowed there is minimal danger of doing damage.
Eric, you know there are many folks shooting light weight bows out there and you are never going to change their opinions.
I like to think it has a lot to do with the fact that many of them come from the ranks of cable gun shooters that have converted to trad but still do not have the dedication to the sport to put in the necessary time to develop their muscles. They are satisfied with shooting light because it provides them with instant gratification without the effort or dedication required to shoot heavier weights.
This is the last I'll say on this thread. Not getting into a shouting match with folks that as Eric said see nothing wrong with hunting deer with a .22. Eric if you feel the need to vent, you know where you can do that.
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Looks like the thrust of this thread has changed to a heavy bow vs. light bow thing. If it continues it won't last that long... promise. :(
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To get back on track....I would recomend arrow that is heavy (relative to draw weight), and a 2 blade head.....I would choose something like a Zwickey Eskimo. Razor sharp, but you know that.
Some of the guys have mentioned shot placement, because it matters. The lighter the bow, the lower your margin of error.
I would not choose a 3 blade head for that set up.
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I would also go with a good sharp 2 blade. Also I just don't get the "my way or the highway" attitude of some :thumbsup: :campfire:
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.......With your setup a razor sharp three blade Woodsman, snuffer, MA-3 or VPA will work just fine on an arrow of 450gr or heavier.....
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To those who stayed on topic thank you very much for your input and I believe it will come down to several factors. I will weight out options tune some setups for her and we'll see what she likes shooting the best.
For those who got off topic..Mr. Lamb will deal with you guys.
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You never stated the type of bow or the draw length, that would make a difference. A couple of weeks back I shot with a fellow with a longbow that,he thought, was drawing an inch and a half longer than I was with my Grooves Spitfire recurve. We were shooting the same weight cedar shafts. Although the bow was ten pounds heavier it was not nearly as fast as my recurve, he had enough power and his accuracy was coming along nicely. However, if draw weight to power was in question, I had a lot more power. Numbers on a bow at times can mean very little. The Woodsman has killed lots of deer for folks with lighter bows, just has good two blades have. The big question is the flight of the arrow, the placement and the sharpness of the head in relation to the available cast. Of course a quick 37 pound bow with a decent draw length will do the job on a deer.
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I posted it in page 1 or 2...
Black Widow 37#@24" draw shooting an 28" 3"x4 fletch 1816 with a 150g tip shoots straight and hits hard for 37#'s.
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Im shure youll git it figured out.Good luck to your wife and Happy huntin.
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I see you have added the 24" here, with 15 feet up, unless that arrow is over 160fps I would go with a sleek two blade.