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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: BigBucksnTrucks on September 17, 2012, 10:15:00 AM
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Last year I missed a monster buck...had a tree limb jump in the way! lol. Anyways, I've been shooting daily for at least an hour at a time and then several sessions on weekends. This weekend I started noticing a pain in my right arm. I'm shooting a 65# @ 28" custom based on the black widow. I'm drawing about 27" so roughly 62#'s. Could this be from the dreaded bow shock or is just from shooting so much and muscle pains that come with it that will go away as I get stronger.
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In my opinion you are shooting to much whaen your accuracy becomes suspect. I your accuracy is there I can't say you are shooting to much. My widow would not know shock if it saw it. I can't say on your's.
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I seem to shoot better even up to a week between shooting sessions. Of course I only shoot about 50 pounds at my 29" draw with my PCH. I would suggest you cut down your shooting time and days and see how you do. I would also suggest you try a lighter draw weight if you can't stop shooting daily. Heavy draw bows are really not necessary to kill a deer.
Good luck and shoot straight.
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draw right or left handed?
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If you are still maintaining concentration and hitting with good accuracy, it's probably not too much. I believe too many of us just fling arrows without much thought or purpose and let the bad habits creep into the routine.
With the pain, I would lay off a day or two...or at least reduce the number of shots. I believe I read that champion Larry Yien likes shooting 150-200 arrows, BUT does this with purpose and every other day.
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I shoot about the same amount, and maybe a tic more weight. I shoot 67 at 28" and pull just a fraction over 28. I would guess you have a form flaw creeping in and the change in technique is where the pain is coming from.
God Bless,
Nathan
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Shooting a bow requires different muscles then those that most people normally use. We actually get stronger by tearing our muscles and then they rebuild to be able to withstand that stress. With that in mind I would say that yes it is possible to be shooting to much. When I first got into archery and I was shooting a 35# bow, I would go out and shoot for an hour or so and then the next day I would be so stiff I could just barely lift my arms above my head. Obviously I didn't shoot those days. The real risk with "overshooting" is that you will develop bad habits that are hard to get rid of. The reason for this is that when your muscles hurt you will sometimes, without thinking about it, change your form a little bit to take the strain off of those muscles which can throw off your form big time.
As to hand shock I believe that that only occurs in the hand that holds the bow, so that is only a possibility if you are left handed. My suggestion would be to take a few days off and see if the pain goes away.
Archery is supposed to be fun, shooting with pain isn't fun. JMHO :archer:
Good shooting,
John
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DOH!! I completely screwed up that post! My apologies, the pain is in my LEFT elbow, not my right, I even reread my post before submitting it to make sure it was ok. I'm a body builder and am very familiar with tearing down muscles when putting stress on them inorder to building them up. I'm hoping thats the case here. Yesterday I noticed I couldn't keep my left elbow straight and shot 5 arrows and stopped, I definitely don't want to develop bad habits, I'll take a couple days off and then maybe switch to shooting every other day. I've got a month until my hunting trip so I want to practce as much as possible, but I don't want to hurt myself before the trip, that would be no good. Thanks for all the help!!
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No muscle in the elbow. Only tendon, ligaments and joint. Pain is a warning to be heeded. Yes it is possible to shoot to much, I have done better shortening the length of sessions.
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Maybe saying elbow pain is wrong, it's more in the muscle on the front of the arm in the elbow area, sorry for the confusion I should have made that more clear.
On another note, I just won a new2me bow on a bidding site, it's 55#'s, so I may switch over to that to practice with and see if that helps to.
Also, I've tried reducing my practice times, but shooting is soo much fun! lol I'll try harder though.
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I know I shoot way too much. I hate to quit. Some tendon pain in my left elbow right now. I'm getting good at knowing where the line is and not to cross it. What happens to me is that after a about 30 minutes of shooting I can't get my bow shoulder to quiet down. It gets tired and develops a wobble. And on my heavy bow I get a headache. And I really have to focus to get in my 6" circle. But I know if I lay off a little -- just shoot a dozen or so arrows all from different distances, angles, etc., and let myself rest I'll be right on it. I also have a light bow I shoot when my joints yelp at me.
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Thanks for all the responses on here Guys! it's good to know that LOOONG practice sessions aren't necessary. I've seen some guys that are able to shoot 4 hour sessions and I think ....holy cow, after an hour I'm spent, good to know that I don't need to work up to that, not with my 65# bow anyways.
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Most of my daily sessions are 10-20 shots with one arrow and a judo point. Usually only about 15 minutes of so. Teaches you a lot, and doesn't wear on the ol' bod so much...
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put it down to old age :biglaugh:
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I have a bow that is just a bit too heavy. Im working on shooting with good form right now in progress to developing split vision style. I do not shoot for accuracy but rather focus on grip, anchor and release and do not worry about where the arrow hits. Still getting pretty good accuracy but so far that is just instinctive accuracy.
Anyway, as soon as my accuracy or windage starts to waver I stop shooting. Sometimes this is after 4 arrows and sometimes it is after 40. The key is to know when your form and strength is wavering and to stop right then.
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My wife is a physical therapist, so I asked her opinion. She basically thinks you are over-training. Pulling 65 pounds over and over for an hour is very repetitive and heavy work. Then you also do this multiple times a day on the weekends? This can certainly cause injury! You are not giving your muscles enough recovery time. You might be letting muscle fatigue cause you to use poor form and cause joint/elbow injury.
When people lift weights or work out, they usually take a days rest to let the muscles recover if there has been heavy lifting. Drawing a heavy bow that many times essentially is a heavy workout.
If you were shooting that same bow with only 12-20 arrows a day, then daily shooting wouldn't be as bad. You might still give yourself a days rest 2 times weekly. For instance, don't shoot on a Wednesday and Sunday.
This is just mine and one physical therapists opinion. I am sure there are others who might disagree.
God Bless and good luck,
Charlie
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Speaking for myself, ..Yes it is possible to shoot too much.
Generally shooting bows between 60 and 80 lbs, ive found that shooting every other evening or even every third evening is the best for me.
As buckeye hunter above stated, your muscles need recovery time, and IMHO it also gives your your hand and eye coordination time to recover as well.
I believe that shooting for long periods of time repeatedly can cause mental fatigue and loss of focus, but by laying off for a day or 2 your muscles as well as focus have time to recover.
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You mentioned you are a body builder, I assume you work legs one day & another body part the next day, therefore giving your legs a rest. To build muscle you do tear it down, but then you give it a day or two to repair. I have been out of weight lifting / body building for 20 plus years, but in the day there was theories of only working a body part one time a week. What your doing is aerobic almost, not building muscle, I think aerobic classes are only one hour a day.
Follow what you know for body building, working out a bow muscle is the same, if your pulling a bow or lifting a weight, just the difference between using a machine or free weight.
Dan
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Yes, it is possible to shoot too much. Pain and soreness are the body's way of saying you need to back off. Do what's comfortable and is conducive to good form, just don't overdo. This is experience talking.
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I guess I've shot to much. I'm getting Flexor Tendinitis or Trigger Finger in my finger next to little finger on my release hand. It just started a couple wks ago and is already locking up during the night.
Oh, well..season opens in two wks and I won't be shooting so much.
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Thanks Guys!! this all makes very good sense. Good points here...I'm a heavy lifter and only work each body section once a week, mainly due to time restraint, but if I were to lift more than once there would be at least 3 days before hitting the same muscle group. When it comes to bow shooting I think I'm working muscles that aren't normally used and since I am working with a heavy bow pulling it at least 100+ times per session that is quite a workout. I'll deifintely switch to every other day at least and shorten my sessions.
Charlie, inregards to what you said about 12-20 shots---maybe if I try that it'll force me to focus even more since I'll know I only have a couple shots to get it right!
Perfect practice makes perfect shooting after all and if I'm over shooting I'm not practicing right.
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Brad,
You also might want to try setting out multiple targets at different distances. Take one shot at each and then retrieve arrows. That way you do not get "locked" into one distance. This also gives a bit more rest in between shooting. Milk jugs filled with foam and stick legs(looks like a baby pig), cardboard boxes stuffed with newspaper or water bottles all can give you cheap and fun targets. Don't be afraid to poke some sticks into the bottles and boxes to turn them into 3d targets.
Another strategy I use is to limit myself to one shot and retrieve. Then choose a different angle and distance for the next shot and repeat. This also keeps you from getting locked into one distance and provides some extra rest between shots.
Good luck and I hope that elbow gets better. Make sure you rest it some and apply ice! If need be, drop down a few pounds in draw weight as well. Don't cause yourself an injury.
God bless,
Charlie
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Thanks Charlie, I've been wanting to add some more targets, and those are great ideas to do it cheaply! I like the idea of taking one shot and retrieving the arrow and moving around. I just purchased a used bow on a bidding site that is 10lbs lighter so now I'll have the option of shooting lighter while I practice. I should have that in a few days. The elbow is starting to feel better, I worked it harder than I thought and lactic acid must have built up in there. Hopefully by the weekend I'll have my new bow and will try out the methods you recommended. Thank you again Charlie!
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One more question....I have a 55lb bow on it's way, but I'm thinking after bow season is done with and I get caught up on some bills I may be interested in a 45lb for taget shooting, bow fishing and small game. Is it ok to practice with a 45lb bow and then use a 65lb for deer/bear hunting? I'll practice with the 65lb once in a while, but mainly with the 45 so I can focus on form.
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yes. You can overdo anything. shooting everyday is ok, but I don't think marathon shooting sessions are productive or healthy. Take a break for a few weeks until your arm feels good and then try shorter shooting sessions. IMO 10 to 15 minutes is plenty.
The 45lb bow is a good idea for improving form, but I'm not sure jumping up for hunting is going to be good for your accuracy. I lean towards shooting the hunting bow all the time. Why not go with a 55# bow? I bet it'll feel plenty light after your 65# bow, but it'll have plenty of force to bring down north american game.
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I haven't made a big jump back and forth in weight like that. For occasional form work the 45 will be good, but I would still do the majority of the work with the 65.
I have gone from 51 to 42 but never a 20 pound difference. If you are going to shoot the 65 for hunting then I would make sure I had plenty of practice with it for consistency sake. Your release will be VERY different from 45 to 65. The 65 pounder should give you a better release or at least that is how many guys feel. Heavier bows = cleaner release is the theory. I would continue to shoot the 65 pounder, but just go easier. If the elbow is still hurting after you scale back some, then definitely go to the lower weights or a bow with a more ergonomic grip. Also the arrows will shoot flatter from a 65 pound bow than a 45 pounder. You could mess with arrow weight to get similar trajectories, but I wouldn't want to fool with it personally.
All that being said, shoot the heaviest bow you can with a few qualifications;
1. Make sure you are accurate with it.
2. Shoot it a reasonable number of times with rest as needed. Just like working out.
3. If the draw weight is causing you to have pain, then draw less weight or switch to a different grip. I had elbow pain and it turned out that I just needed a different grip.
4. Don't worry about what draw weight other guys shoot. Just shoot the draw weight that is right for you.
If you are a pretty strong guy, and I suspect you are, then I would do my form practice with the 55. If you find a REALLY cheap 45 pounder then it won't hurt, but you definitely need to be shooting the 65'er consistently if you want to hunt with it.
Good luck!
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Thank you Very much! I'll stick with the 65 and follow your tips. I really appreciate all your help, thanks again!
Brad
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Years ago, I had a 45, 55, and 65# bow of the same make. I hunted with the 55lb, used the 45lb for form work and winter league shooting, and I would shoot the 65lb bow to make the 55 seem easier. About 2 months before the season, I would pretty much quit using the 45, and only used the 65 at a blank bale to keep the muscles working. The 55 was pretty much the only thing I shot at targets. It seemed to work pretty well.
I know I can overshoot. My neck and elbow has me shooting the lightest bow (45lb) I've ever hunted deer with so far and I still have to drag myself away from the targets. I don't like stopping when I'm shooting well, and I don't want to stop when I'm shooting poorly. It's a vicious cycle. To steal a phase from Patton "God help me, I love it so"
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"I don't like stopping when I'm shooting well, and I don't want to stop when I'm shooting poorly" So true!
Charlie- I tried what you said last night, I shot one arrow walked around the yard to another spot and shot another arrow and took a couple more steps and shot again. I gotta tell you I was very surprised how well I shot with this. I usually just sit in one spot and shoot a couple rounds, move back 5 yards, shoot a couple rounds, move back another and continue shooting. Walking around and taking shots from different angles was actually quite a bit of fun and I suprised myself with how well I shot. I only shot a few rounds then forced myself to put the bow away. I even feel more confident about my shooting bc I shot at so many different distances and angles last night. Thanks again for the tips!
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Brad,
Do you think you may be aggravating your elbow during your weight lifting sessions? That might carry over to your shooting as well.
From,
Another Brad.
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Brad, there is a high possibility of that, I considered that also bc I've been increasing my weights. I linked it to bow shooting though bc it's just the one arm and I can really feel it when I straighten my left arm (same position it's in when shooting) It's mostly gone now..took most of the week off from shooting, shot a litle last night with no ill effects. I think it's a combo of tearing the muscles down while working out and then tearing it down more when shooting.
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I figured out the root of the problem. For some reason I was not holding my bow arm straight. I had a slight bend in my elbow which was putting a lot of strain on the muscles around my elbow causing them to be excessively stressed. I've since adjusted my bow arm and lock out my elbow so my arm is perfectly straight and have had no issues with soreness at all. Now I can get into the "clock" form and notice a big difference in my shoting, espeacially if I don't hit the form right. I've also had to add an arm guard since the string was slapping my forearm with my corrected form. My shots are much more consistant and accurate, espeacially at far distances (30yards.) Anyways, thought I'd share the outcome! Happy hunting all!