Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: BBrakke on November 08, 2012, 08:24:00 PM
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Does anybody know what woods would make the fastest shooting longbow? Im looking into a 66 or 68 inch bow, with a 45 pound draw weight at 28.5 inches.
So far I have looked into yew for a core and bamboo for the limb (or the other way around) with either a ebony or cocobolo riser, but I am open to any other suggestions as well.
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Limb design has more to do with speed than materials. A while back, KennyM did a comparison of different cores in the same bow design and didn't find much difference.
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Wht jsweka said x2.
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I am planning on getting the mild reflex/deflex design. The 2 bowyers I was really looking into were Abbott Archery and Liberty Longbows. I liked Centaur and Black Widow too, but they seemed pretty expensive!
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where you at in montana,you might also look at the toelkes,fast turnaround,whip is a mild R/D.
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Im in Missoula. I go to school at UM.
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brandon, i sent you a PM.
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I would encourage you to try some Toelke bows. Dan is a first class guy and builds a sweet bow.
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Limb design is what determines how a bow performs. Different wood cores on a limb make absolutely no difference in how a bow shoots. This is what the boys at Black Widow told me a few months ago, and I bet they know what they are talking about.
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I've got a fine piece of Macassar ebony right here that i could build you a "Flatliner" long bow. I've even got one your weight in stock i could send you to try before you buy if you'd like....
check these out.
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202012/Flatliner/SANY0008-1.jpg)
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202012/Flatliner/SANY0051.jpg)
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Originally posted by JamesKerr:
Limb design is what determines how a bow performs. Different wood cores on a limb make absolutely no difference in how a bow shoots. This is what the boys at Black Widow told me a few months ago, and I bet they know what they are talking about.
You guys are obviously not bowyer's to make bogus claims like that...and that guy you talked to at black widow wasn't a bowyer either I'd bet.
You build two bows identical and use bamboo in one, and foam cores or light weight walnut in the other and you could see as much as 8-10 feet per second in some designs. You can change the feel of the draw and make a quicker limb by adding stiffer wood in the core like paduke or wenge. or zebra wood too.....
Guys that say cores don't matter don't build high performance bows...... btw... There is much more to limb design than the shape of the limb....
yup...it's what's between the glass, and keeping the glass to core ratio balanced to the draw weight.
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That is a gorgeous bow! Definitely something I would love to look into further! What kind of IBO does that get?
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Originally posted by BBrakke:
That is a gorgeous bow! Definitely something I would love to look into further! What kind of IBO does that get?
Single string traditional bows are not rated by IBO standard arrow weights of 5GPP. The standard is 9-10 grains per pound. the speeds vary depending on material used.
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Ok, well that just further proves that I am new to the traditional world. Thank you for the information!
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I am not a bowyer nor claim to be an expert on bow design. I was unaware that cores could make even as much as 8 fps difference. I was always told that limb design had much more to do with performance than woods used. According to most bow reports I have read done by Blacky Schwarz this seems to be true. The fastest longbow I have seen that he tested was Alaska Bowhunting's longbow, but it only outperformed a Tomahawk Legacy series (which has a maple core) by around 5-6 fps. One question I do have about the lighter weight core woods such as bamboo is that do they seem to last as long as bows made with a maple core. I know maple has long been an industry standard for making rugged long lasting dependable bows. I am curious if bamboo or any other core woods seem as durable?
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Thats a good question. Does anyone have any suggestions on core woods? I've heard bamboo and yew are the best limb woods, but I dont really have a clue about core woods.
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Im not a bowyer or expert either, and i wont start talking about speed as this is a subject so complicated with bow construction that i normally just relly on the bowyers recommendations.
But waht i can tell you is about feel. In my opinion a mapla core limb draws a little smoother and a bit softer, a bamboo core has a more crisp, direct feeling. At least thats my experience.
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Listen to Kirk, he knows what he's talking about. If you are really hung up on speed, have you considered foam core/carbon limbs?
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I am not too hung up on speed, I just haven't had much experience shooting with trad bows, and I was told by someone in an archery shop to "get a fast shooting longbow or a recurve since recurves are usually faster than longbows". But I will look into that.
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I am not a speed freak at all or I would shoot a foam/carbon limbed bow. While they do outperform other limb materials it is not by a very substantial amount (10 fps will not make much difference in whether or not a deer ducks your arrow in my experience). I find that my 3 piece Tomahawk shoots plenty fast to suit me. According to Blacky Schwartz review it shoots 185 fps with a 9 gpp arrow. I personally like a wood core over foam and carbon as it is a time proven performer. Just my opinion.
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There are a lot of variables in the actual performance of a bow. and there are different interpretations of what "High performance" means too....
You guys are right... The limb design itself is a very large portion of high performance.... and yes... once you start getting over the 190 fps mark, you are splitting hairs, using lighter weight materials, and doing some fine tuning to exactly where those limbs are bending to get to the 200 mark.... that's what i call "ringing the bell"
Building a high performance bow is not all about speed either...... You can build a hot rod bow that really smokes an arrow, but it's got a stiff feeling draw and is very "Twitchy". This makes it hard to shoot with good consistency...
but taking the time to balance a bow out for maximum stability, good core to glass ratio, and having a nice even load in the working portion of the limb, with a good string angle at full draw.... the speed of the bow is naturally i bit higher than average.... and it's a nice shooting bow ta boot....
To put it simply... the shape of the limb determines the potential for stored energy. a recurve design has the potential to be the fastest bow out there too.... but.... there is a huge difference between storing energy in a limb, and transferring that energy it to the arrow.
That's where mass weight of the limb itself and the ability to stop the forward motion dead comes into play...I've seen a lot of R/d long bows that rang the bell too. btw.... if you've got hand shock you are wasting energy that could go into the arrow....
good grief! Sorry i got so long winded here...
Kirk
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I agree completely Kirk. I should have made my original statement that materials used do make a difference but usually not much in a well designed limb.
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I don't have any idea what makes the fastest bow, but I know you can kill any animal in North America with board bow from Home Depot for about $9.00.............................................................................................................................................
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Brandon, go up to Dan Toelkes shop in Ronan which is just north of you. He is a very nice fellow, very welcoming. Try out his whip and his Super D. He also has recurves for sale. Give him an email or call. You won't regret it.
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Give James of J D Berry Archery a call (509)299-3029 he is answering the questions you are asking over and over on the phone all the time. James has been building custom longbows for over 32 years now and when it comes to bows he really knows is stuff. James loves talking archery and if you would like to learn alittle about shooting form James has helped allot of is custormers and non-customers, he just likes to talk archery.
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If you are looking at the Liberty , check out his Edge , very fast stable bow .. One of my favorites .. Went with the Bamboo core with clear glass
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Kirk,
Personally, I prefer Red Elm cores in my Longbows. I can not specifically pin point what it is, but I do know that the two best bows I have shot had red elm cores. Something about the draw and the feeling upon release that is just perfect, could I get you opinion on red elm cores?
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I prefer action boo for all my bows. But then again, it is completely up to the archer, because he is the only one who can feel it by his own and unique way of shooting.
So what counts for the one, doesn't necessarily count for the other.
Let 10 archers with the same drawlength shoot the same bow and arrows and you will probaly end up with ten different speed values and most likely 15 opinons about how it shoots :)
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Dutchman,
Come to think of it I absolutly love my bow with the action wood limbs, (different from action boo I know) but its is a wonderfull feeling limb
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www.jdberryarchery.com (http://www.jdberryarchery.com)
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Originally posted by Flying Dutchman:
I prefer action boo for all my bows. But then again, it is completely up to the archer, because he is the only one who can feel it by his own and unique way of shooting.
So what counts for the one, doesn't necessarily count for the other.
Let 10 archers with the same drawlength shoot the same bow and arrows and you will probaly end up with ten different speed values and most likely 15 opinons about how it shoots :)
check this stuff out bro.... rock hard maple action wood... You wouldn't believe what this stuff does to an RC limb just using glass... :readit:
I laid up one batch here with some walnut strips for low poundage bows to lighten up mass weight.
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Wood%202012/Actionwood1.jpg)
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Wood%202012/Actionwood2.jpg)
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You're the man Kirk! :)I should save some money and buy one from you.... It looks to me you know were youre talking about.... A fast and smooth D-shape around the 48 lbs would complete my collection...
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What is "action wood" and "action boo" From previous psts Ive read, Ive heard some people say its terrible because its like hardwood flooring, but then other people rave about it.
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Action wood means laminated.
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Ok, so I would assume that would work better because it would allow the nodes of the bamboo to be spaced out evenly? And what is the foam people are talking about that they put in their "faster bows".