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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Big Ed on December 20, 2012, 01:32:00 PM
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Looking for a pup or possible puppies to train to blood trail. I am looking for a good bloodline or family history with blood trailing. Any info would be greatly appreciated,
Thank you,
Ed
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Ed, I use my beagle an she is awesome. When hunting rabbits she doesn't track or chase deer.
Best tracking dog I've seen
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Ed
You first need to decide on a breed and go from there. You'll live with the dog everyday for 12 years or so, but only track with him a dozen times or so a year. I'll send you a PM concerning Teckels and a person to talk to, but I don't know if you are interested in Dachshunds or not.
R
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Oh, and also, unless you have a lot of experience with tracking dogs I wouldn't worry about "puppies" plural...doing one right, with enough real tracks to allow him to develop, is PLENTY of work!
R
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You only want to use the dog for tracking blood trails one would first think Blood Hound. If any other uses than more options for you.
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My Lion & Bear hunting buddies from New Mexico sent me home with a Leopard Catahula Puppy. They claim they are wonderfull pets and can be trained to Trail Anything. I have him just as a pet but he runs around all day with his nose to the ground.
Thanks, Randy
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Hi Ed,if your interested in a mini dachshund get ahold of Teddy Moritz in New Jersey. She has a great working line of them. Her dogs are the foundation dogs for alot of the working mini dachs breeders. I've hunted over quite a few dogs from her line. If you're interested let me know and I can get you her contact info from a friend of mine.
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Black mouth cur...... Deer blood trailing
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I have a mountain feist....bred to hunt squirrels, but will track a mouse throgh a blizzard.....any dog can be taught to blood trail if YOU are willing to put the time in.....
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Ed, check out the United Blood Trackers site. Unfortunately you have to be a member to access the breed discussions, but you can pull down a list of guys willing to track in your area. Give them a call. All are willing (eager?) to talk about their breed and maybe give you some tips. Might be some close that you can visit.
Ron
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Jeff Green at Green Ranch (vom Schlussstein Kennel) has a beautiful litter of drahthaar puppies right now. He just sent me pics, and they are fabulous. He's located outside Everett, PA. Great guy and fine family. I have 2 dogs from his kennel, and they have incredible hunting desire and abilities.
http://www.green-ranch.com/dd/
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I've been interested in wirehaired dachshunds for some time and found a website devoted to tracking. Being specialists, they are called Tracking Teckels. Check out www.trackingteckels.com (http://www.trackingteckels.com)
They reportedly have used them to track deer and other game.
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I have no experience with either but can at least put 2 breeds on your radar that Ive read a bit about. Jagd terriers are a tiny little beast with the tenacity of a wolverine but in a 10 lb package. Also a Bavarian bloodhound which I read a little bit about when I was looking for a dog. Like I said, dont know much about them but they might be a lead for you.
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Our "mutt", Tumo, (1/4 bassett, 1/4 beagle, 1/4 Shar-pei and who knows what else!) has been trained to blood trail since he was 8 weeks old. Now at 6 he is slower and even more tenacious. Point being, ANY dog will do as long as YOU are willing to put in the effort. Follow the advice of John Jeanneney's book and you will know quite soon if you have a real tracker.
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Ed, be sure to introduce us to your new addition.
I dont know much about them but i knew a guy here in NY that had a dachshund and had the most recoveries for many years. Not sure if his record was ever broken. He was in NY deer search.
I know his dog was getting old and he bought a wire haired dachshund, I guess the new dog wasnt as good as the old one. The wire hairs were supposed to be better at that sort of thing.
I have sen pictures of Kevin's Dogs. They are my type of pups.
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I would go for a black mouthed cur. Best blood tracking dog I have ever seen. My families current squirrel dog does a better than average job at tracking deer. She is a West Siberian Lika.
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The place we hunt in Texas the farmer uses Blue Lacey's. they are sweet dogs and do a great job. They have a little coyote in them and look just like it when they run
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Keep in mind that tracking in the Midwest or East you will be tracking on lead - most folks use a 10 meter or 30 foot lead. In the South and Texas most people track off lead, and the breeds used different places work better for one situation or another. Remember too that you will be following the dog...which is following the deer...which will go thru the nastiest places they can find. One of the advantages to a smaller dog is that you don't have to waterski thru the multiflora rose thickets...my hat is off to guys that track in the thickets with a big dog. I can't imagine being pulled thru the stuff we go into behind a 120 lb bloodhound!
Check into the prey drive of the various breeds and breeder's dogs too...this is a balancing act... you WANT strong prey drive for tracking, but if you have a really strongly prey focused dog - a good hunting Teckel or a well bred Jagd, for instance - forget about keeping a cat around. For us this doesn't matter, but if we brought a cat into the house with Oskar I suspect it would be in small pieces within about 15 minutes! The dog needs to fit YOUR situation - these working breeds, from what I've been exposed to at least, are NOTHING like the beagles and hounds I grew up around.
R
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Ryan hit the nail square on the head, go with one of the smaller breeds. Getting dragged through the brush by a horse isn't any fun at all. By far and away the teckel/daschund breeds are the very best. I have used a jagdterrier for a few years. They are great dogs but their nose isn't as cold as the fore mentioned dogs. Jagds are a ball of fire and have outstanding hunting instincts. If you are looking for a small dog that will tackle anything, this breed is for you. Hunters use them to run everything from rabbits to bear.
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Originally posted by Ryan Rothhaar:
Check into the prey drive of the various breeds and breeder's dogs too...this is a balancing act... you WANT strong prey drive for tracking, but if you have a really strongly prey focused dog - a good hunting Teckel or a well bred Jagd, for instance - forget about keeping a cat around. For us this doesn't matter, but if we brought a cat into the house with Oskar I suspect it would be in small pieces within about 15 minutes! The dog needs to fit YOUR situation - these working breeds, from what I've been exposed to at least, are NOTHING like the beagles and hounds I grew up around.
R
I'd disagree with this. I've seen some really hard hunting dachshunds that are actually kept as house dogs also.I've seen them get along with the famlies other dogs,cats and even a parrot. The jagds I've seen are pretty hard dogs and I don't think I'd trust them 100% with anything smaller than them.Same goes for the good Patterdales I've seen.That said,if they're raised around them from pups it would probably work out.My dog was raised with my birds from 8 weeks old,he's very trustworthy around them.He'll go through a window after a coon and will pile right into a 100lb dog if it comes in our yard,he's a whopping 28 pounds.
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc156/goshawkin/GEDC0222-1.jpg)
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Got some great leads here keep them coming. I really like the looks and characteristics of the smaller breeds.
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John Jeanneney is from NY and wrote the book on tracking dogs for wounded deer. I spoke with him once on the phone. His book has a wealth of info on trailing and wounds even if you don't use a dog. I have referred to it a few times through the years.
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Hey, don't get me wrong - our Oskar is 100% a house dog - he's sleeping against me right now, and spends his nights in the bed with us - he's a real sweetheart - but prey drive is a continuum from none to lots, and any hunting breed can come out high on that scale. I'm just being honest with our situation, and the good versatile Teckels I've been around...the BEST resource is the breeder - if they are worth their salt they will know their bloodlines and the dos/don'ts of that bloodline. He gets along fantastic with our other dogs - but they aren't prey animals - and our breeder told us this would be the case.
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My next dog will be a "German Shorthaired Pointer." When he or she isn,t bloodtrailing you can be hunting Grouse ,pheasants or any other bird for that matter. They will retrieve waterfowl also. They are a great versatile dog, and are used to hunt just about everything in Germany. They are very loyal and family oriented. A little female averages around 40-45 pounds.
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(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e322/rayhammond123/7B95776D-0820-4567-BF6D-4EEC90472E31-3820-000003C95BDC0B41.jpg)
Like many have said- nearly any dog- Shiloh is my mountain Feist black mouth cur mix and he is as good as they get
Also jack Russell terriers- they're used in Africa and are amazing!!
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Don't know what it is, but almost any hunting breed with a German ancestry/origin can be counted on to hunt...hard. Many breeds will get the job done, if tracking hit deer is the only objective.
I live far out in the country on a farm. I selected the Deutsch Drahthaar because of its versatility in many hunting and tracking applications. I also needed to solve a problem. The problem was too many opossums, skunks, raccoons and other small varmints 'crowding' us and living around our farm. The Drahthaar is one of those breeds which WILL pursue, catch and kill these varmints. They will also chase coyotes and foxes, and can kill them if successful at cornering them. The end result for me is that I've had NO encounters with any of these creatures around the farm for well over a year now. This is not a breed I'd recommend for a suburban or city dweller. My 2 dogs are outrageously athletic and energetic, needing space to run hard. Around 50 pounds each, they're strong as an ox and have healthy appetites. I'm currently spending about $100 per month in dog food.
I considered much smaller dogs initially, but ruled them out as being unsuited for my varmint-control intentions, as well as a rough-and-tumble life on the farm, outdoor kennels, etc.
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Kevin, do you have any pictures you could send me? If so please send them to [email protected] Thanks,
ED
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Ha Ryan. I hear ya I had a friend here in GA with a huge redbone named gal. He was a small fella and he would put her on a lead rope similar to horse lead. He had to wear heavy carhart stuff because she would literally drag him through the thickets wide open until she found the deer. I really miss Hobo Huff RIP my friend!
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If you want a dog that does it all then take Kevin Dills advice and look into the Drahthaars.
My Draht came out of Pennsylvania too but a different breeder. I think If I trained mine to drag the deer out he would happily do it :) My only word of caution with a Drahtthaar is if you EVER think you will own cats make darn sure you get the cat the same time as the puppy or have one that he can grow up with so he knows it's part of the family and he must leave them alone.
Here's a link for you to look at the Drahthaars. http://www.vdd-gna.org/
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I have seen every kind of dog do blood trailing. I believe it's all in the training. You have to invest the time though. They need to understand their job.
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Ed....
A while back I started a thread on our PBS forums about my dogs. Like any other forum, guys added their posts and pictures too. This thread will show you some good pics of my two Drahts, along with several other breeds owned and used by PBS members. Take a look...
http://www.probowsociety.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=126
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I have a Rat Terrier, but he is one of the older breed and not this tiny little stuff commercial breeders are selling. My dog weighs 30 pounds and will tackle anything. However he is very good natured and my best buddy. A couple of weeks ago, he tracked a wounded deer for just over a half mile through some rough stuff.
Rowdy was born with the bobbed tail and high straight ears as well as an inborn desire to hunt. He is an excellent squirrel dog, and will jump rabbits although he doesn't really go after them the way a beagle would do.
Lots of good breeds have been mentioned and I wanted to brag on my dog a bit too.
Joe
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Ed, when your not bloodtrailing they also make great dogs for chasing bunnys. And birds and...and... yeah they will hunt anything you want them too. Even the littles one will try to ride them. LOL!! (see pic)
If your interested in the drahthaar my advice is to go to a couple breed tests for the dogs and see them being tested. The info will be on the link I mentioned in my other post for the VDD website. The tests are for breeding purposes so it's NOT a competition thing at all. The basic test are VJP in the spring for puppies to 14 months, HZP in the fall for the same dogs that tested in the spring, and then the VGP in the fall for the really advanced trained. The blood trailing tests can be done at the same time depending on how the test guy sets it up. (http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3500/giddyupbirko.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/giddyupbirko.jpg/)
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That's a great picture! My dogs are exactly that gentle with humans too. After 2 years, mine have never growled at me or nipped me even once.
An additional thought. It's really easy to get excited and buy a puppy on impulse. It took me about 8 months to make it a reality, mainly because I was determined to get the right dog breed from a really good breeder.
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Here's my German Shorthair, she's trained as a bird dog but does double duty as a tracker.
My advice for tracking only is to get a smaller dog. Lucy is the smallest Shorthair I've ever seen but she will tow you through the briars until you look like you've lost a cat fight.
I also think it worth mentioning, it took awhile to finish up her "Do not fetch the kitty" program.
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r243/7Lakes/Dog%20Pictures/100_2866.jpg)
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I simply have a miniature longhaired daschund. Started training as a pup and the words" find it" get her so excited. So far,only two trails and both were successful. The second trail was 300 yards long with the first 100yards with no visible blood. She saved hours of trailing. Within 10 minutes of starting the trail, deer was found and the shooter, 12 year old with first deer was ecstatic. She 's also a great pet for the family and very compact. Cheap to feed, dog weighs a total of 10 pounds.
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The best blood trailing dog I have ever witnessed was a leapord catahola. She is simply amazing. Never lost an animal as far as I know.
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You see alot of Catahola pups for sale down here in South Florida, they use them to hunt hogs.
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I'm with Kevin and G. Dog. Check out the DD's. I have a 2.5 year old, and I will never ever have another breed. Depends on what you are doing, just do the math, most folks really don't spend that many days in the field. If you want to expand your horizons these versatile dogs will offer you more options. My guy will chase chukars at a rate of about 4.5 miles an hour(hes hooked to a gps) for basically all day(6+ hours), gaining and losing thousands of feet in elevation. Tough as nails, gentle as a kitten around the house. I think you could raise them with a cat, but these dogs have a prey drive, they hunt everything.... including Porkies.... so beware kitties...
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He drinks too much beer, farts when people are close enough to smell em without a second thought, humps anything that wont hump back but hes got a nose like a bloodhound. I havent put him on a real bloodtrail yet because I havent killed a deer close enough to home to get him out there in the three years Ive had him but he has followed my man made venison blood trails from defrosted meat without difficulty. Hes a pit bull cross, we were told weimaraner but not sure. Fiercely protective of my wife and boys but loves all good people like they were his own. A pittie might fill the bill. (http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o244/2crazyboys_photos/IMG_0460.jpg)
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Ed, here's a few pix of Blue, our BMC. He just turned a year old last week and is already bigger than the breeder told us he'd be, probably 100lbs by end of next year. Has a heck of a nose but I didn't get much time to work him this year with the job being busy. Looked at Moutain Curs also. They should finish out about half of Blue and also have a good nose. Both breeds are smart.
We're heading down your way for a few days next week if you have questions.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj4/scottinpa/IMG_0340.jpg)
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Jim Schaafsma of ArrowFive Outfitters in California has developed an incredible breed of dogs specifically for trailing wounded deer. They are a small terrier mix. Very friendly, active dogs that have trailed deer as far as is needed. If they don't find the deer, it isn't going to be found.
You would really be remiss in your search if you didn't at least talk with Jim.
Since the dog is only trailing the deer, and not dragging it to the ground, a small dog works great, and eats a lot less!
That said, I have an airedale that is extremely smart and friendly, and loves to hunt about anything, and wth very little training does a fair job at trailing deer. He'll retrieve ducks, hunt pheasants and grouse, roust out rabbits, kill coons, possums, skunks, and porcupines, and trail deer - then sleeps about 20 hours a day (though he's getting old now). A great thing about airedales is they hardly shed - most of the other breeds, especially the terriers, leave hair everyplace they go.
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This is some great input!!
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Another vote for the drahthaars. I live in the city and both mine are house dogs with great manners and hunt anything I'll let them. Best dogs I've ever been around.
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Drahthaars have really gotten my attention!!
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I did my own research over the last couple of months and have a deposit down on a drahthaar puppy. Been reading a ton and I should be getting the puppy around April first if the breeding goes well. Good luck in your search!
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Ed,
One thing in favor of a Drahthaar is their breeding controls. A true Drahthaar can only be registered in Germany, and the document is called an 'ahnentafel'. Each of my drahts has their own ahnentafel which thoroughly documents their bloodline. DDs cannot be bred to produce a litter of register-able puppies until the parents have both passed a number of tests. These tests guarantee that only proven hunting dogs can be bred together, and is an assurance that every litter of true DD puppies will be full of outstanding hunting dogs with great appearances. They have an extremely low incidence of inheritable diseases and conditions. Their love of humans is bred into them, as it's part of the dog's essential qualities for hunting/handling. You will never find a true Drahthaar which has been bred simply for it's appearances or as a profit-maker.
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Those Drahthaar's are hunters for sure. They dont care what either.
Drahthaar,Patterdales and Jagds all have tremendous prey drive. The Patterdales and Jagds dont know they are small and can get into trouble in a hurry! They have ZERO fear, I mean none! They want to hunt EVERYDAY.
I have 7 Patterdales. Ive picked 2 to work on blood trails for now. The oldest of the 2 is barely a year old. I guarantee if we came upon a live wounded deer he would anchor that sucker till you figured out your next move.
Goodluck Ed its a journey and an adventure.
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My 2 pennies.
I have a single solitary experience with a bloodhound. I written on threads here before about them and the former statements are true. Big strong dog that can pull You arround like a rag doll. But mine was a real treat. And. Oh she could find them.
They are able to travel long distances easily and quickly. Good to know if it escapes from your yard.
Divide first the size of dog you want, then the breed.
Good luck. And I have been with a friend that uses his wife's poodle....... It works too!
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My father has a tracking service for downed deer in Michigan and uses a wire haired dachshund. Blood hounds are named that because of their pure bloodline not because they track blood. If you get one you will find you bought a nose with a dog attached.
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Here is a picture of my Braque. She is a great upland hunter. Very good on woodcock, grouse and pheasants. This is a pic of her pointing a woodcock. She has also tracked a deer for me and did fine but that really isn't her strong suit. We love her to death. Not as versatile as a Draht but another option.
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m14/p143297/Lampmans.jpg)
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Kevin, I really like the strict control of the breeding in the Drahthaar. I have been doing some research and there are a couple highly respected breeders right here in PA and with in an hours ride. Man this is getting me pumped for a new addition to the family.
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I went through the process of trying to figure out what breed I would like earlier this year. Blood trailing was of course a consideration, but not the overriding factor. Really looked hard at the teckels and the Drahthaars, and I know I would have loved either.
But as others have mentioned, many different breeds will make very satisfactory blood trailers given proper training. I ended up settling on a Boykin Spaniel, and I think it has turned out to be the absolute best choice for us. Perfect size, lovable, smart, and just an all around great dog.
Arlo is 9 months old right now. I was able to get him on 6 blood trails this fall, and we found 5 of those. The 6th he took for probably 1,200 yards before finally losing it. The hunter was unsure of where he hit, so I really can't say what happened or if it was a deer that could have ever been found. He is off to a great start as a trailer, and really loves working blood.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y80/Jlasch/Untitled-1.jpg)
If blood trailing is your sole purpose in owning a dog certainly concentrate on the very best of the breeds for that purpose. But if you are looking at other factors as well and broaden your search be sure to take a look at the Boykins
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Ed,
Drahthaar breeders seem to 'cluster' to a degree, and PA does have some nice ones. I spoke to about 3 different guys there, but my first choice was Green. When he called and gave me #1 choice in his litter...I couldn't sleep that night!
You've heard a lot about high-energy dogs. Mine are literally rockets when I allow them to play. I was frankly intimidated at first as I saw how much exercise and attention my dogs required. I gained some confidence and enjoyed the fact that I had to get busy and work with them. There are more sedate dogs out there for sure, and I could probably love all of them.
I watched Steve's dog go from littermate to fully grown hunter...all on line...and she's a beauty!
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For a REAL dog! The Jed
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa328/brockman2/DSCN0268.jpg)
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I think my choice would be a Springer....
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202012/Flatliner/G-10%20Classic%20riser/SANY0008.jpg)
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Bear Heart, I could. Of have said that better. " nose with a dog attached". Ours new what was going on all the time! A truck stopped in front of our house once to talk on his cell. She ran out , went over his tailgate grabbed a large sack of trash and bailed out! That nose kept her in some trouble. But that bawl she had was music. Doubt I would ever have another. But sure do miss her.
It looks like you are going another way Big Ed and that is probably wise. But A Bassett hound we had was just as nosey and much shorter legs made him a slower dog. He was actually the smallest bassett I have ever seen. He sang just as sweet but was hard headed.
Man I love dogs. Good luck
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i have a English Springer that does everything i want her to do. good all-round dog
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Bear Heart, I could. Of have said that better. " nose with a dog attached". Ours new what was going on all the time! A truck stopped in front of our house once to talk on his cell. She ran out , went over his tailgate grabbed a large sack of trash and bailed out! That nose kept her in some trouble. But that bawl she had was music. Doubt I would ever have another. But sure do miss her.
It looks like you are going another way Big Ed and that is probably wise. But A Bassett hound we had was just as nosey and much shorter legs made him a slower dog. He was actually the smallest bassett I have ever seen. He sang just as sweet but was hard headed.
Man I love dogs. Good luck
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How bout an aussie reindog?lol
(http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l544/dwilber88/xmas.jpg)
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Picked up this little girl today, a Bob Tail Catahoula Leopard Pup and will get to training her for blood tracking right away.
please check posted images sizes for width - 640 max width size
[IMG]http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/pup2_zps8bc2698f.jpg[/IMG]
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Great looking Pup!!
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(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/Image0001_zps21207dca.jpg)
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Kevin, I know you are high on the DD because of the strict breeding controls. I spent 20 years in Germany and traveled a lot through Europe.
Initially, the Weimaraners were bred by the Bishop of Weimar and owned only by hunters. To this day, most breeders will not sell them to someone who does not have a hunting license and in Germany, a hunting license is a serious thing. Same for the DD. Their bird dogs are treated the same way. The first thing we did here in the States when the Weimies arrived, was to start breeding them over-tall as a boutique breed. We do the same thing with our Springer spaniels, Irish setters, English setters, etc, etc. Talk to an English breeder of hunting Cockers or Springers and see what they think of our show dogs.
I think you broke the code in buying a dog of any breed. Get one from a reputable breeder who strives to maintain the original traits and you won't go wrong.
And Izzy, there definitely looks to be some Weimaraner in that face.
Ron